Whats going on with mom? Hex. 1.1.2.3 --> 12

[elizabeth]

I'm on a two-month stay living with my parents as I work from home at my office job. This is a temporary situation; i haven't lived with them (for more than a two-week stay) in more than 16 years.

My mother has always had controlling tendencies but my stay has been OK so far until tonight. She sat me down to have a conversation about some intimate details of my life that I do not discuss with her and that IMHO are none of her business -- not as a mother. There are certain things I just do not and cannot share with her and these are top of the list. Partly bc growing up these things were never discussed. In actuality there is much about my life she doesn't know and that is fine by me bc she knows more than most parents do.

However in our "discussion"(in which she attacked me and accused me of not wanting to discuss it) she blew up and brought up issues from 16 years ago. I had been dreading this before I came for the visit bc i never know what lies temporarily dormant beneath the surface. Her attacks leave me feeling the need to hermit and isolate myself and be entirely alone. I attempted to level-headedly explain my point of view but despite her verbal desire to "talk"she would not listen to what I said (or believe what I said).

I asked the Yi what is going on with her. It gave me 1.1.2.3 and Hex 12 (stagnation).

I gather that means (line 1) it is not time to act (for her??); (line2) Truth spoken at the incorrect time becomes untruth, correct action prematurily undertaken can create pain and heartache. (which she did) and (line 3) the situation is dangerous although you hold no fault in your approach (either her approach was faultless, or mine was; not sure which).

I followed up with a question about who is to blame (because maybe I am interpreting this all wrong and she is totally right in her approach or right in her ideas and I am totally wrong). It gave me Hex58.2.4 and then Hex. 3, difficulty at the beginning.

Those details of Hex 58 and 3 are:

58. The Joyous. Success. Perseverance is favorable.

The Image: Lakes resting on one another: The image of the Joyous. Thus the superior man joins with his friends For discussion and practice.

line 2: Sincere joyousness. Good fortune. Remorse disappears.

line 4: Joyousness that is weighed is not at peace. After ridding himself of mistakes a man has joy.

Hex 3. Difficulty at the Beginnings
Difficulty at the Beginning works supreme success,
Furthering through perseverance.
Nothing should be undertaken.
It furthers one to appoint helpers.

The Image
Clouds and thunder:
The image of Difficulty at the Beginning.
Thus the superior man
Brings order out of confusion.



I"d like to know if there is another way I should approach this. Or if i'm right in my assumptions, approach, and reactions.

 

[dobro p]

I'll take on the first half of it.

I asked the Yi what is going on with her. It gave me 1.1.2.3 and Hex 12 (stagnation).

Before I go into the Yi stuff, I'll talk about families. All families and the interactions you have with family members, especially one's parents, are somewhere on the scale that ranges from loving to toxic. Draw on the former, avoid the latter, is my advice. The ones in the middle are a puzzle. You'll never figure it out, is my conclusion, but you can try to make it work if you think it's worth it. You can draw clear, strong lines that they will honor if the relationship is workable/salvageable is my experience. Otherwise, head for the exits and send the birthday cards and Christmas cards as required.

Okay, now the Yi, and what you drew. Hex 1 is creative energy manifesting. Hex 12 is that energy blocked, and it's anti-human. So, what's going on with your mum is that creative energy coming through her gets hijacked and blocked. (That blockage accounts for the old issues that keep coming up even now.)

I'll bore you with more of my belief system. I believe we're here to grow, and that growth means to become more aware, first of all of our personality patterns and junk and issues, and second of all of 'higher' dimensions of ourselves that we haven't accessed yet. It sounds to me like your mum needs to work on both, especially the former. She seems to think that it's appropriate to behave that way with you, bringing up old crap and not respecting the boundaries you'd like honored. I don't buy it.

 

[elizabeth]

hi dobro -
thanks so much for your take on this. (and you weren't boring me with your beliefs!) Your assessment concurs with my take on it, but it seems so simple to assume i'm right. I read thru your words that she has good intentions (creative energy) that gets mucked up and twisted on the way out towards me. I'd venture it's her own ïssues (repression, regret whatever they may be) that ïnterrupt the good intentions and shift it all into an attack. I dont know if she knows this (i doubt it). But the whole "conversation" wasn't an adult one even though she said that is what she wanted. It struck me also she started it by, "Ï say this not as your mother but as an observer..." I was expecting her to say "but as a friend"-- and it occurs to me, that isn't her role (friend), not the role she sees herself in and never the role she has played in my life. So yes, toxins and other good things, a mix I guess.

The problem is though, that explaining myself = talking back; and talking back = disrespect. So an argument that she begins always (always) ends in me being disrespectful no matter how calmly and factually i try to keep the discussion logical. (When she brought up stuff from 16 yrs ago I stopped her and said "but wait, what does that have to do with X?" She was stymied for a moment and then made it sound like I've always been a big problem.) In sum, yes she has to work on herself, but she never will bc I, for one, am not empowered enough, not allowed to point out her own flaws to her. I am not allowed to be a mirror. Since I am her daughter, she treats me as less than she would a stranger bc she can "get away with it". (and since I"m a guest in her house now, and so on). She is the omniscent mother. I'm just the lackey daughter who must be obedient. Mother is always right. Etc. Even when the daughter is a grown adult.

At any rate, the reading at least is on target. I'm guessing I handled it the best way i could have. If it happens again, and i'm sure it will at some point in my life, I suppose i will just try to do the same thing. (this reminds me why I *haven't* lived with them since I was 18 (!!))

 

[willowfox]

Too much energy leading to inner conflict and the single minded desire to be disruptive, resulting in the firm belief that she has the right to say anything that she wants. She is being antagonistic because of suppressed anger, frustration and perhaps jealously. She sounds like a real controller who always knows what is best for you and also always wants you to do as you are told. Selfish and an unhappy person.

 

[rosada]

What's going on with Mom? 1.1.2.3 > 12.

One of the curious things about hexagram 1 that gives it so much power is that it contains no broken lines. This gives it it's ability to go, go, go, but it has no receptivity, no ability to take in any alternative points of view.
1.1 So she comes at you with her agenda without checking to see if you were even receptive to having the discussion.
1.2 She assigns herself a role, observer, and cast you as the one who is observed -a uniquely powerless position!
1.3 She tries to clear up every issue in this one conversation, and then

12. "Falls back on her inner worth in order to escapes the difficulties"? HA! The difficulties SHE started!

I think 58.2.3> 3 is telling you what was intended to be a open honest conversation became heavy not because anybody was at "fault" but because you both are so new at this sort of way being with each other - that is, open conversations - thus 3.Difficulty at the Beginning. I think this is a very optimistic answer as it suggests the problems can ultimately be sorted out. Perhaps this is a clue as to what you should next ask the I Ching, something along the lines of, "Discribe what a successful relationship with my mother looks like."

 

[elizabeth]

Rosada and willowfox, thanks so much for your posts. They seem completely on target based on the experience of last night!

Rosada, Rosada I especially liked your line-by-line explanation. That fits it to a "T"!

I will do that followup reading -- but the bigger question is HOW to get to that successful relationship. I have known about her issues since about 5 years ago when it all dawned on me, clear as night and day. Til then I knew there was conflict but I just didn't know why. To have this regression to the way she treated me as a teenager is -- beyond being simply bizarre and disappointing -- very disturbing. She's 65. And this is her means of "communication"?

The key here, and one I don't know that I could point out to her -- she might freak out even more -- is 1.2. By assigning herself the role of observer, i'm the one who is observed which is powerless. She doesnt have enough insight to see any of this in psychological terms or role-playing terms. But since she was a nurse she thinks that she is entitled to attack me in these ways, as that excuses it and delivers her from all responsibility for the outcome, ie "I am a nurse, i know what's best, so i'm going to tell you what the problem is." I really feel like Alice in Wonderland where everything is backwards and the more I try to point that out, the more she says *I* am the one who is backwards.

Anyway..thank you for the interpretations. I have to head out but will post again about the means to acheiving a successful relationship with her. If possible. I can't imagine how it could be possible at this point though. What's that line, about the reed in the wind that is inflexible, breaking?

 

[maremaria]

Hi Elizabeth,

I can relate with you in some of what you have said. Have not something more to add to the interpretations others offered. I mostly agree with them.

From your sayings ,If I have understand then well, seems that it is difficult to have a conversation being in the same room. One attacks and the other attacks back to defend herself. She says a word you say another and a chat becomes a war. What if you try to tell her how she makes you feel with a letter? Find a place you feel comfortable and start writing how do you feel. Forget what she does wrong, just concentrate on how you feel when she says this or do that. She cannot disturb you and you can write what do you really want to say and not what you have to say in order to defend your self. Then give it to her. She could ready it whenever she wants. She likes to have control, give it to her, trick her, let her decide. What is important is to say her what you have in mind. Maybe it works.

You said that the conversation began with “"I say this not as your mother but as an observer..."
Maybe, for her own reasons have a problem to approach the situation as a mother and she prefer to be an observer. Trick her again. Talk to the “nurse, that knows what is best” Probably she is very proud for her work and her abilities” It seems like she can’t function in her “mother” role. Move the game to the field she feels comfortable. Get her involved to the talk. What is important here is to have a true exchange.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best.

Maria

 

[dobro p]

One of the curious things about hexagram 1 that gives it so much power is that it contains no broken lines. This gives it it's ability to go, go, go, but it has no receptivity, no ability to take in any alternative points of view.

Gee, Rosada, that is so, SO, *SO* right!

 

[elizabeth]

Maria, thanks for your comment and your ideas. I think you hit on a very important point, to flip the tables and speak her language in order to reach her. I actually began composing such a letter. And after being gone for 12 hours at work today I came home and she said to me she was sorry about that conversation, she realized she had moved back in time and was thinking and acting like when I was little at home but i'm not little any more, and she wasn't sure why she did it.

I didnt know what to say so i just smiled and said thanks and it seemed to gloss over everything. I wonder if she knows *why* she had the outburst though. I'm really shocked that she figured it out on her own -- i did not think she would be that insightful, and i was not expecting an explanation at all, only probably more arguments. This is the first time in 33.9 years that she has ever done this -- admitted she was wrong. I'm still in shock! So I suppose this reading was a bit premature, but all of the responses helped me thru a very difficult (and sleepless) 40 hours. SO thank you again to all who replied.

-e.

 

[dobro p]

Network effect! Everybody say thanks. lol

 

[Trojina]

Maria, thanks for your comment and your ideas. I think you hit on a very important point, to flip the tables and speak her language in order to reach her. I actually began composing such a letter. And after being gone for 12 hours at work today I came home and she said to me she was sorry about that conversation, she realized she had moved back in time and was thinking and acting like when I was little at home but i'm not little any more, and she wasn't sure why she did it.

I didnt know what to say so i just smiled and said thanks and it seemed to gloss over everything. I wonder if she knows *why* she had the outburst though. I'm really shocked that she figured it out on her own -- i did not think she would be that insightful, and i was not expecting an explanation at all, only probably more arguments. This is the first time in 33.9 years that she has ever done this -- admitted she was wrong. I'm still in shock! So I suppose this reading was a bit premature, but all of the responses helped me thru a very difficult (and sleepless) 40 hours. SO thank you again to all who replied.

-e.

Amazing ! Thats a great outcome. I was thinking maybe you being there has helped her move out of the phase of stagnation (12) where she was with this issue to do with you. As if creative energy was really trying to shift this stagnation - lol its almost making me think of a 'constipated' situation lol thats er finally moved on.

I'm very pleased for you

 

[maremaria]

Good news Erizabeth !!!!!! This sounds like a very good first step !!!
Happy for you.

Maria

 

[rosada]

Well God bless your Mom! Isn't this wonderful? I really feel we've got an example here of group energy creating reality and the I Ching's healing powers.

Thanks for the kind words, Dobro.

Mars is turning direct today, further evidence of constipated situations starting to move. (Geeze, Trojan, only you...

 

[dobro p]

Constipation is a really useful down-to-earth application of Hex 12 Stagnation. This particular thread really shines. It's been really insightful for me on a range of Yi images, and it seems to have been quite useful for the person who started it.

 

[Trojina]

Yeah somehow 12 reminds me visually of constipation lol.

Hmm anyhow thats enough of my deep spiritual insights, but I'm remembering sometime Soshin asked a something like "Yi what are you ?" and got this same configuration hex1 to 12. I could be wrong but I feel thats what he got and but i can't find it in hex search.

 

[rosada]

"Yi what are you?
"1.1.2.3. > 12"

That's an interesting answer. I see it as emphasizing the necessity of having someone to receive the wisdom. That is, it is the nature of Yi is to inspire ideas and conversation, and therefore the need to have someone to receive this wisdom for the I Ching to play the role of "The Creative". Perhaps this can be applied to the circumstances in this thread. Perhaps because Elizabeth refused to play the role of patient and believe there was anything about her needing 'healing", her mother was forced to recognize that the role of "observer" or "nurse" was ineffective in creating a relationship, and thus to look for a more genuine way of relating.

 

[Trojina]

I can't be sure of that throw still looking for it - think it was in discussion area

 

[Trojina]

Ah here it is i knew it was somewhere - interesting to compare how we saw these readings for very different questions -( the question being "Yi where are you from ?" rather than as I had recalled 'yi what are you')


http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3721

I like the way Frank r sees it as "heaven bought to earth"