When is fire on the mountain a fire on the mountain? 56.2.4 > 18 re trip

[poised]

Contemplating a weekend trip to a mountaintop house in a neighboring state, a place I visited earlier this year. Invited by friend who used to be lover. We've thrashed that out, I have zero emotion about the personal situation and apparently, neither does he. I do not anticipate personal mountains or valleys but we'll be driving through and living in real ones covered with forests.

Temperatures here are far higher than usual and fire danger is real. I did not have that in mind when I asked,

What do I need to consider about making this trip? 56.2.4 > 18

56. The wanderer. Yes. Literally, we'll be traveling.

56.2 This seems to say it will be a positive experience.

I did NOT get 56.3, The Inn burns down, so perhaps that means no fire danger this weekend?

56.4 I've looked at many translations and do not fully understand the implications.

Wilhelm:
He obtains his property and an ax.
My heart is not glad.

This describes a wanderer who knows how to limit his desires outwardly, though he is inwardly strong and aspiring. Therefore he finds at least a place of shelter in which he can stay. He also succeeds in acquiring property, but even with this he is not secure. He must be always on guard, ready to defend himself with arms. Hence he is not at ease. He is persistently conscious of being a stranger in a strange land.

The ax is literal. Friend likes to chop down dead trees on the property. The not glad heart reminds me that friend is, I think, at risk for a heart attack. He even mentioned that if anything happened to him on the trip, I'd have to call for help. Of course I would, but should we even go on this trip?

I actually like being a stranger in a strange land, enjoyed a career as a travel writer for a couple of wonderful years. But if anything happens to friend on this trip, I'll be stuck in tribal lands surrounded by bears. Not secure at all if friend got hurt or became ill.

18, work on our spoiled relationship seems unlikely, as our unemotional plateau is comfy. Poisonous snakes? Or friend will end up in the hospital getting his heart repaired? If that's the case, we should not travel.

I did ask about his health several days ago, before we contemplated this trip: http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?17246-Health-Question-29-1-3-4-gt-43

Still, the current question is not necessarily about his health. I did not have that in mind when I tossed the coins.

I would appreciate further insights from more experienced members here. Thanks so very much for your help :bows:

 

[pocossin]

What do I need to consider about making this trip?
56.2.4 > 18

I have zero emotion about the personal situation and apparently, neither does he.

I don't think so. Sour grapes. An uncle who had serious heart problems was so afraid that physical intimacy would kill him that he stopped all relations with my aunt -- not even a hug. She told me how neglected she felt. This is a common situation when a man develops heart disease, and I know no sure fix for it. The connection between sex and death is as old as Genesis, and a little heart disease releases these mythological ideas to run wild. If I were in your place (and I do not know exactly what that is) I would tell the guy, a hug won't kill you, and repeat it until his fears relaxed.

You did not receive line 3:
The wanderer sets fire to their camp
And fails the young assistant
Persisting is hard to do

(I thinks so much of Hatcher's translation that I spent last Christmas typing it in.) So fire at your mountain cabin seems unlikely, although it is a good question as to how literally a casting should be taken.

2
The wanderer comes to a camp
Cherishing those resources
And earning a young helper's loyalty

The guy is helping you write a book. Why not renew this activity at the cabin? After all, if life is short, do it now. The late Frank Kegan gave this advice, and had he lived longer, I would have helped him clarify his ideas. I have done the best I could for the late and annoying Chris Lofting. Why let good minds go to waste?

4
The wanderer stays in a shelter
having secured some wherewithal and an axe
But lamenting "My heart is not at peace"

Now fess up. Your heart isn't at peace, is it? Don't let negativity ruin this vacation. Both of you need the relaxation. I remember that you were worried about him having a heart attack on a mountain road. It's unlikely, just as it's unlikely that a lightning strike will set afire your particular mountain. From my perspective, your greatest danger is food poisoning (hexagram 18), so if you are carrying any food, be certain that there is enough ice in the cooler. Good luck.

 

[poised]

Very insightful, pocossin

What do I need to consider about making this trip?
56.2.4 > 18

I don't think so. Sour grapes. An uncle who had serious heart problems was so afraid that physical intimacy would kill him that he stopped all relations with my aunt -- not even a hug. She told me how neglected she felt. This is a common situation when a man develops heart disease, and I know no sure fix for it. The connection between sex and death is as old as Genesis, and a little heart disease releases these mythological ideas to run wild. If I were in your place (and I do not know exactly what that is) I would tell the guy, a hug won't kill you, and repeat it until his fears relaxed.

Yes, it's been a year of adjusting and not adjusting to this new palsy-walsy buddies relationship, and I've been up and down to say the least. Now I've adjusted to the extent that I expect nothing more. I do get hugs but not the " I am smaller so you can be taller than" enfolding hugs. Just "client hugs" he gives to his patients after group. OTOH, we do have fun and know we can count on each other. Don't think I ever had a better friend.

I remember a woman friend back in Chicago who's lover died in the act. It was horrible for her, I don't know whether she ever had another bf.

did not receive line 3:
The wanderer sets fire to their camp
And fails the young assistant
Persisting is hard to do

(I thinks so much of Hatcher's translation that I spent last Christmas typing it in.) So fire at your mountain cabin seems unlikely, although it is a good question as to how literally a casting should be taken.

Yes, I am pleased that you think fire is unlikely. Bradford is very interesting, particularly his 28.5. ...Ironic that "the buck" has the health problems, tho neither of us is young by anyone's definition. Come to think of it, I'm definitely younger at heart than friend.

The wanderer comes to a camp
Cherishing those resources
And earning a young helper's loyalty

The guy is helping you write a book. Why not renew this activity at the cabin? After all, if life is short, do it now. The late Frank Kegan gave this advice, and had he lived longer, I would have helped him clarify his ideas. I have done the best I could for the late and annoying Chris Lofting. Why let good minds go to waste?

So spot on, pocossin. The idea has been at the back of my mind and every time it surfaces, I push it down again. I stopped working on book about three months ago, cleared my mind, and could begin again now. Or not. Since friend has a new job now, he's not too stressed to help, I think. Plus his new place has a full recording studio where he might be able to brush up his speaking skills to some degree of professional polish, which was to be his main contribution to this project. I write, he publicizes. I was resentful about his refusal to work on his end of it, I must admit. But now he's brought it up again, ever so obliquely, and I need to hack (the axe?) thru the resentment and plow thru the thing.

Yes, Frank Kegan contributed much to this site. I wondered what happened to him. "Life is short, do it now," sounds wonderful. My father, who died at 53, often told me, "It's a long life, kiddo." Guess I was always in a double gemini child hurry. But I took his message to heart and remain astonishing healthy year after year after year. Big fun.

The wanderer stays in a shelter
having secured some wherewithal and an axe
But lamenting "My heart is not at peace"

Now fess up. Your heart isn't at peace, is it? Don't let negativity ruin this vacation. Both of you need the relaxation. I remember that you were worried about him having a heart attack on a mountain road. It's unlikely, just as it's unlikely that a lightening strike will set afire your particular mountain. From my perspective, your greatest danger is food poisoning (hexagram 18), so if you are carrying any food, be certain that there is enough ice in the cooler. Good luck.

Thanks for the sensible, statistical probabilities. The sky probably won't fall on us this time. As to food poisoning, we'll buy groceries when we arrive. But he might want to continue poisoning himself with saltsugarfat. I'll relax, he'll work around the house, which belongs to his stepson who now works in D.C. Friend has an overdeveloped work ethic, mine is underdeveloped. I can see how this could balance out, but only if we're both committed to helping and listening to each other. Otherwise, my heart may not be glad. Friend would go right on happily mowing the lawn.

Thanks once again, pocossin. You get so quickly to the heart of the matter. I always enjoy and benefit from your take on things for me and for others. :bows::bows::bows:

 

[poised]

Outcome: No trip

So here's the outcome. Just had a call from friend. We are NOT going on this trip this weekend. He wants to reschedule for August 2.

He says he'll have more $ then, running low now because of delayed check at new job.

I asked Yi Ching: Why aren't we going? 47.6 > 6

Exhaustion, and 47.6, repent and go forward. Forward to Hex 6, Conflict?

 

[meng]

I think it reads more clearly like this:

I asked Yi Ching: Why aren't we going? 47.6 > 6

He says he'll have more $ then, running low now because of delayed check at new job.

 

[mirian]

I asked Yi Ching: Why aren't we going? 47.6 > 6

Dear poised,

I believe that 47.6 >> 6 is saying that you're not going because the concerns are taking their toll on you both. This is the line for someone who gets exhausted because he/she thinks that problems are bigger than what they actually are. If you could just put your worries aside and go for a relaxing weekend you would see that things are not as daunting as they seem and probably would not cost the Earth or break the bank. What I have experienced with this line is that a change of outlook is called for. The exhaustion is in your mind. I do like Wilhelm/Baynes saying about this line "He is oppressed by creeping vines". So, just get rid of it for good.

Hope that helps a bit:bows:

 

[poised]

Creeping MindVines

Dear poised,

I believe that 47.6 >> 6 is saying that you're not going because the concerns are taking their toll on you both. This is the line for someone who gets exhausted because he/she thinks that problems are bigger than what they actually are. If you could just put your worries aside and go for a relaxing weekend you would see that things are not as daunting as they seem and probably would not cost the Earth or break the bank. What I have experienced with this line is that a change of outlook is called for. The exhaustion is in your mind. I do like Wilhelm/Baynes saying about this line "He is oppressed by creeping vines". So, just get rid of it for good.

Hope that helps a bit:bows:

Thanks so much, mirian. :bows:

Right you are, we are both exhausted, and in my case, it's all in my mind. Definitely creeping mindvines. I would go ahead with the weekend, but it's his call.

Meanwhile, I'm meeting friends for coffee and long talks this morning and have two other invitations for the weekend, again with women friends. So, I'll have a good weekend no matter what.

 

[poised]

Thanks for translating

Hi meng, simple as that, huh?

"It is what it is," to quote you and also friend, who says that all the time.
Manspeak is difficult for me without the embroidery to hold it together. Thanks for translating.

 

[poised]

First there is a fire, then there is no fire, then there is

Unbelievable. We are going after all. BECAUSE there is a fire in the area.

Friend is going to clear some brush. We're driving the northern route, the blue highway, because fire is approaching the freeway.

Not even going to toss coins. I don't think Yi has an "are you nuts?" hexagram.

 

[pocossin]

Unbelievable. We are going after all. BECAUSE there is a fire in the area.

Friend is going to clear some brush. We're driving the northern route, the blue highway, because fire is approaching the freeway.

How is he going to clear this brush? Axe (line 4) or its modern equivalent, the chainsaw? These tools are dangerous to use. Don't let him hurt himself. And, is he up to such strenuous activity in the current heat? In my opinion clearing brush is probably pointless, and he'll just be stacking fuel on the ground. When going up a mountain, fire runs through the tree tops. You could do the guy much good if you can restrain his land clearing aspirations. Don't let him sacrifice himself for a physical object. Keep him hydrated, and insist that you leave on the first whiff of smoke. I saw conifer tree tops explode into flames in my childhood. It is like tanks of gasoline exploding.

 

[poised]

Thanks pocossin

How is he going to clear this brush? Axe (line 4) or its modern equivalent, the chainsaw? These tools are dangerous to use. Don't let him hurt himself. And, is he up to such strenuous activity in the current heat? In my opinion clearing brush is probably pointless, and he'll just be stacking fuel on the ground. When going up a mountain, fire runs through the tree tops. You could do the guy much good if you can restrain his land clearing aspirations. Don't let him sacrifice himself for a physical object. Keep him hydrated, and insist that you leave on the first whiff of smoke. I saw conifer tree tops explode into flames in my childhood. It is like tanks of gasoline exploding.

I agree with you totally and appreciate your observations/knowledge about fires. I'm going with him just because I don't want him to get killed. (I'm such a heroine? Questioning that now.) Yes, he has a chainsaw.

Will most assuredly pass on your advice. Before we leave. So hopefully we'll just stay home or get as far as my daughter's house for a pleasant day on the river.

 

[poised]

Pocossin, meng, mirian: How 56.2.4 > 18 played out

We saw fires from the road on the way over, got close to one, but it was on the other slope of a mountain and we were in no danger. As we approached Flathead Lake, there was less smoke, and the air up at the house was just fine Saturday. Irritating smoke on Sunday, but no fire. The absence of 56.3.

The biggest dangers were wild animals: We had stopped at my daughter's country home on the way over. I felt a snake around, and indeed, almost stepped on one. A graceful lovely little thing that slithered away in a hurry. Poisonous?

We sat out in lawn chairs Saturday night at the Flathead house overlooking the lake. We know bears roam the property and so do cougars. In the deep stillness of the night, we heard an animal approach. Sounded like a large animal, so I headed for the house. Friend laughed. "Hey, it's only a rabbit." It came and sat next to us in the dark.

In addition to the surrounding fires, I had an unusually good kundalini meditation (snake/fire up the spine) that night. We'd been listening to Joe Cocker singing

Love, lift us up where we belong,
Where the eagles fly,
On a mountain high,

..which I love, and it led into the meditative state for me. I intentionally kept it going higher (up the spine with meditation and Alexander directions*) until I was on a wonderful natural high.

I never use drugs or alcohol.

56.4
Friend only mowed the lawn, not much exertion, no heart problems. But I do see a sort of 56.4 connection, because I am perfectly happy getting naturally high but friend, who was once an alcohol/drug addict and now counsels addicts, is not happy with any kind of high. He said he could never feel as good as I was feeling without drugs or alcohol. So his heart was not glad about that.

18
If I go to 18 as a result/relating thought, work on what has been spoiled, I can imagine his being able to get happy without chemicals.
And/or perhaps the relationship will survive if we work on it. Not going to happen. Survival only going to happen if we Never Discuss Anything. (Mindvines, mirian?) (Manspeak, meng?)
Is this some kind of cosmic joke?

Can I imagine myself being happy without him? Definitely. Have I really tried? Sort of. Am I truly willing? Apparently not. Big sigh. We're going back to the lake in two weeks.

* Alexander Technique teachers teach "good use" (of the self-- as it manifests in the body.) The basic directions are, "Neck free, head forward and up, spine lengthening, back widening" in everything you do. Including meditation. I sometimes use it as a mantra of sorts.