When people ask you to consult the Yi for them

[hilary]

Hang on a minute, Candid - thunder below, fire above. Fire below the mountain is 22: inner beauty illuminating outer form. We're standing on our heads here. (Interesting perspective, though

.)

 

[candid]

Oops!

got caught up in the 'heat' of the moment! That will teach me to multi-task.

 

[candid]

22:

21:

 

[Sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I've never had to sign disclaimers to receive council or a diagnosis from a doctor, nor to receive treatment that wasn't potentially life threatening.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are we missing the forest here?

Is that you Bill?

For the rest, we are in agreement. If I understood you correctly, whatever the querent does with the information provided to him, be it from his own use of the Yi or from somebody else's reading, is his responsibility.

L

 

[candid]

Luis, call me thick headed, but what is it you are saying exactly?

 

[Sparhawk]

Nope, don't think that's one of your treats...

I tried to say that I thought you were hanging only from the Dr's metaphor (the tree) and missing the point I was trying to make to Dobro about "disclaimers" (the forest).

I was trying to find a good graphic about 'splitting hairs' and Mr. President came up.

L

 

[candid]

Luis, I think this entire thread is unusually stressed out, beginning with the curt answers (or non-answers) Dobro received from what seemed to me to be fair questions and examples.

And I think the doctor analogy addresses the reader's liability issues squarely.

And Bill is on my short list of least favorite people.

And I think I'll take a break for awhile and gather my own sensibilities before I

again.

 

[Sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Luis, I think this entire thread is unusually stressed out, beginning with the curt answers (or non-answers) Dobro received from what seemed to me to be fair questions and examples.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem Candid. I certainly hope I wasn't one of the people who gave a curt reply to Dobro. English being my second language I try very hard to phrase well my thoughts. Specially more so when I don't agree with another person's opinion. Respect is essential.

Yes, the doctor analogy addresses a broad spectrum of issues between a querent and a reader. On the other hand, there will always be doctors and patients around regardless of any parallel issues. But I am getting off topic here.

Luis

 

[lenardthefast]

Sorry, Dobro,

I was walkin' out the door when I read your post and dashed off that short, almost (gasp!) 'brusque', answer.
QUOTE:

* The Yi can't tell you about things that you aren't meant to know.

Answer: I believe that the Yi is your subconscious talking to you in symbolism. I believe your SC wants to tell you EVERYTHING. It's our belief systems, dogma,. et al, that prevents us from hearing when we don't, not the Yi.
Quote:

* It works best when you're asking about how to deal with a present situation.

Answer:
Almost all of my questions when I divined with the Yi had to do with the future, anyway, at least, lets say, seventy-five percent as a rough guess. I was totally satisfied with the unerring accuracy of the Yi concerning these future situations. It ALSO works great with the present.

QUOTE:
* It works much less well, and the results are much more obscure, when you're asking about future situations.

Answer:
See above. Uhhhh, the 'unerring accuracy' part.

Sorry again about the delay.

Namaste,
clipart{hex04}
Leonard

 

[dobro p]

Thanks Leonard. I understand better why you don't think the three ideas in the first post are accurate descriptions of how the Yi works.

But when/if you do a consultation for someone, do you ever, like Hilary does, try to get them to rephrase their question(s) along what from experience you know to be more useful lines?

 

[dobro p]

Candid - I didn't feel the responses were curt particularly, but yeah it got off-topic a couple of times. Par for the course on internet forums...

Luis - I'm not talking about disclaimers in the first post, I'm talking about useful guidance based on experience. Here's a parallel: a music teacher. The teacher shares what he/she knows from experience are useful ways to play the instrument. ("Now, sit up straight and breathe from the diaphragm. You've got tension in your shoulders - feel it? Now, let go of it. That's right. And bend your fingers slightly - if you keep them straight, you won't ever be able to get the speed you need in a fast passage.") That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. Not disclaimers. ("Okay, that'll be $30 for the half hour. Thanks. Hey, by the way, I hope you realize that there's no guarantee this is ever gonna turn you into a good player.")

 

[bradford_h]

Hi all-
Interesting thread. I've not much to say to the 3 points except I would substitute "capable of grasping" for "meant to know".
One note - the Yi seems to adapt to the reader (as in 'knowing' if this reader is using heads as 2 or 3). It also seems to respond in the terms a particular reader can understand, or come up with a response specific to the diviner in question and his or her special abilities.
Nudder note - Seconding Hilary's approach, I'm all for reworking the question with the questioner's help, even if that process gets long and involved. Of all the wonderful things the Yi has to teach, how to inquire properly, how to ask just the right questions, is to me the summit of Yixue. And the process is every bit as educational as the words of the text. We define the universe of discourse with our questions, we set the parameters of the outcome's description.

 

[lenardthefast]

Hi Dobro,

Quote:
But when/if you do a consultation for someone, do you ever, like Hilary does, try to get them to rephrase their question(s) along what from experience you know to be more useful lines?

Answer:
Yes


AIHSHMTB....I believe that the question is at the very core of the process. In order for the exchange of dialogue between the person(you) and your subconscious to be as effective as possible, the wording of the question is the first knock on the SC's door. In thinking OF the question you may go through a process where you actually discover the REAL question. In my experience, I have found this to be true MOST of the time. In arranging the wording I oftimes find that what I originally thought was the question was actually a veneer. covering, so to speak, the 'core' issue.

I would like to be able to give you an example here of a particular situation, but unfortunately, I can't. I make/have made, Ohhh, 98% of my life's decisions, solely on intuition. When I started with the Yi, thats how I did it for the first 7 years or so. One day I thought, who are all these people that this book is talking about? Princes, Kings, officials, the members of a family, historical figures, quasi-historical figures and my personal favs, 'mythical' figures.

So, I went to Google, entered IC online, and the first hit was Clarity. Gee, what a nice site, knowledgeable people, friendly vibes(mostly..we are still human...at least the ones of us that post a lot.

. ...but, I got involved in the site and never asked. I read a lot of the archives the first year and there are many threads where my questions were posed by other people, and answered by the site members. There are even threads where I believe true masters have contributed, briefly. Or not.

Ater hanging out here for about the last two years, I came to realize that my intuition still serves ME, the best.

I'm still interested in the 'mythical figures', but, now I have Brad, LiSe, Sun, Dharma, Luis and lots of others I am not remembering at the moment. They talk about them all the time and I read most of what they post.

The last part of your question I would answer by saying, Can't help you, there are no real rules when you fly by the seat of your pants. ..ohhh, sometimes being seated helps.

Namaste,

Leonard

Or not.

 

[lenardthefast]

Dobro,

Forgot something.

There is an old Hermetic axiom that goes something like this. "You must understand, that when you Seek Truth, you are Not Truth". (Emphasis mine)

Namaste,

Leonard

 

[dobro p]

"I've not much to say to the 3 points except I would substitute "capable of grasping" for "meant to know"."

'Capable of grasping' puts the focus on the querent; 'meant to know' puts the focus on the intelligence that comes through the Yi. I think the correlation between the two is virtually exact, or identical.

One of the things I like about God is that if I'm not capable of grasping something, God doesn't force it on me. The thing about some drugs is that they allow you to see things that you weren't really ready to see (which is why they're described as mind-blowing) - those drugs kinda cheat the system a bit. But they can only do it for a while. Cuz you're not meant to see it yet. See? LOL

 

[dobro p]

"there are no real rules when you fly by the seat of your pants. ..ohhh, sometimes being seated helps."

Okay, I'll see your insight and raise you a speculation.

Doesn't it depend on your personality type?

Let's say there are people who tend to act, and people who tend to think/feel. Let's say also that there are two great big useful questions you can ask the Yi:

What do I need to know about...

What do I need to do about...

Finally, let's say the querent (you, or the person who's asked you to use the Yi to help them with something) is an action man. He knows how to act. So, he doesn't need to know what to do. He needs to know what to know. So, in order to supply him with what he lacks, you steer him toward the 'what do I need to know' question.

Similarly, let's say the querent (what a queer word querent is) is the sort of person who sees things and feels things and has thought everything through 3 or 4 times, but their problem is they don't *so* anything about it. So, if you knew that, you'd tend to steer her toward the 'what do I need to do' sort of question.

What do you think?

 

[candid]

Hi Dobro,

I think an important aspect of reading for another is listening/feeling/sensing and then engaging the querent. This is an active form, not passive form of hearing. Even a pragmatist emits signals that can be perceived intuitively. A conversion from say digital thinking to analogue feeling and back again to digital (analytical) makes the connection to the pragmatic perceiver. Working with an intuitive individual however, no conversion is necessary, but they likely need assistance in applying the reading/lesson, or bringing it home to where they live in practical terms. Theoretically, even pigs and fishes can be read.

C

 

[dharma]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

One of the things I like about God is that if I'm not capable of grasping something, God doesn't force it on me. The thing about some drugs is that they allow you to see things that you weren't really ready to see (which is why they're described as mind-blowing) - those drugs kinda cheat the system a bit. But they can only do it for a while. Cuz you're not meant to see it yet. See? LOL<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

curious, if all things are of God, why would some things be off limits yet still be available options to choose from? wouldn't showing an interest in experimenting with something that is freely given to us and readily available... isn't that validation that we are ready for something should we choose to pick it up? does there have to be a right/wrong way, right/wrong time that everyone must conform to? again, just curious

in regards to the whole topic of this page: what of spontaneity and of following one's intuition in the matter. i have found that i often approach readings differently from time to time, from person to person and even when dealing with the same person. it all depends on the moment for me

 

[candid]

Dharma, thanks for that.

Personally, in my private spiritual life there's a vacillation between talking/being with God on one hand, and on the other, unattached contemplation, and by that I mean even unattached to a Godhead. Sometimes I wrestle with this because it seems my system is ungrounded or waffling. For this reason I can not take a stand on whether there is or is not a Godhead. Logically, its the polarity shift between say left and right brain, associated and unassociated, yin and yang.

have missed your input

C

 

[lenardthefast]

Dobro,


Quote:

What do I need to know about...

What do I need to do about...

I thought I answered these points in my last post. Asking me how to do this in a 'linear' fashion is like asking a rabbi to explain the fine points of a High Mass. Or asking a parakeet breeder how to castrate pigs. I just don't know how to answer your question. I think if you reread my last post, as well as the two previous posts from Dharma and Candid, you will begin to understand where we three intuitive readers are coming from.

IMHO you seem to be approaching the Yi from an academic perspective, and as I said in my earlier post, that ain't me.

Also, there is something about your approach as regards making determinations about the querent's abilities that is unsettling to me. Here, in California, we have a saying that perhaps applies to the way you are approaching this problem. "Relax, dude, take a chill pill!"

Namaste,

Leonard

 

[dobro p]

Candid - "I think an important aspect of reading for another is listening/feeling/sensing and then engaging the querent"

Yeah, exactly. It's the heart of counselling as well. I don't approach clients with formulas, I just listen and support to see where they're at. I share with them what I see if I think it'll do any good.

Dharma - "curious, if all things are of God, why would some things be off limits yet still be available options to choose from?"

Cuz you can get hurt, cuz there's the law of the right thing at the right time, cuz things grow one stage at a time and no stage can get missed out or skipped. Idries Shah once commented on people who are trying to connect with God, saying that if any of them, for just a fraction of a second, actually connected with the Source directly, they'd be vaporised, fried. It sounds like a tautology, and it's the kind of idea that drives people like Portakal nuts I think, but you (I, us) don't need to know more than you need to know. Which is not much more than 'where to place the next step' most of the time.

Leonard - thanks. I'm not pushing anything, I'm exploring. I don't need to chill, I just want to hear what all of you have to say about this stuff, and one of the best ways I know to do that is to put out an idea that engages people's interest. This is an interesting place, with people who know the Yi in a different way to me (and it's often a more useful way, too). You talked about being intuitive and flying by the seat of your pants. Sure, okay, that's a really important approach, and so I was curious about whether you recognized patterns at all in querent's personalities, or in their approaches to the Yi. I think it's a really interesting question. But if you find it unsettling, well...sorry you feel that way. But you know - the beauty of any conversation is that you're not obliged to pariticipate if you don't want to.

 

[portakal]

Len,
"Relax, dude, take a chill pill!" is a nice suggestion for any dude tending to militant-academic-hypocrisy, IMHO.
Thank you for teachin" it.

 

[lenardthefast]

Dobro,

Every single time I have done a reading for someone it's been different. People being individuals, how can it be otherwise? What was unsettling to me about your post was 'your determination' of a querent's personality(be they 'action' or 'knowledge' oriented). How can you make a judgement such as this should they be perfect strangers?

I know that I have times when I feel 'action' oriented, and times when I wish to 'ruminate' on the subject. I think I share this trait with many people. This was where I thought perhaps you were getting a tad too analytical. Hence, the chill advice.

Oh, and I also disagree with this 'law of the right thing at the right time'. Where is this 'law' written? I've read a lot of Shah on Sufism, but, haven't come across that quote. I'm not saying you misquoted him, just that I am not familiar with that quote. Which brings up the point, so what? Shah is entitled to his reality, same as the rest of us. By now, you have probably realized that I am not impressed by 'experts'. I don't think we are talking here about connecting on a personal level with the God-head, I'm talking about connecting with my subconscious. I KNOW it won't fry me like a 'tater, because it never has.

..and what is this 'one stage at a time' philosophy? What about quantum leaps?

All I can say at this point is that YOUR philosophy and MINE are only about 180 degrees apart. ...and at this juncture I doubt the 'twain shall ever meet. Not that this is a bad thing, ever since Lindsay quit posting here, I have missed having conversations with someone who comes from such a radically different perspective.

Namaste,

Leonard

 

[dobro p]

"Len,
"Relax, dude, take a chill pill!" is a nice suggestion for any dude tending to militant-academic-hypocrisy, IMHO.
Thank you for teachin" it."

Hey, Portakal - did you take an English pill? LOL

 

[portakal]

Sorry pal,
I watch him go even deeper down.

 

[dobro p]

"..and what is this 'one stage at a time' philosophy?"

It's the law of how things grow. You can't get from childhood to adulthood without passing through adolescence. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. From what I know about psychology (not much, perhaps, but it's the stage of understanding I'm at right now), the mind has similar developmental stages - lessons to be learned, experiences to be tasted - if you try to skip any, you get into trouble eventually.

"What about quantum leaps?"

I dunno how quantum leaps fit into the law of growth and the development of personality. Maybe as sudden insights? But I would think that if somebody enjoyed a quantum jump in understanding, it would be because they were ripe and ready for it.

Okay, I've answered your questions the best I know how, but I'm still interested in staying on topic. I'm interested in knowing what kind of 'steering' or 'nudging' people here engage in with querents. I asked you if you would ever alert the querent to what you thought was a useful approach to oracle work, and you said 'yes'. Then you elaborated on how you work with the question in a way that often reveals a better question. That's pretty interesting. How do you do that with a querent?

 

[dobro p]

Dharma - "in regards to the whole topic of this page: what of spontaneity and of following one's intuition in the matter. i have found that i often approach readings differently from time to time, from person to person and even when dealing with the same person. it all depends on the moment for me"

Yeah, of course. And if, like you say, you can be flexible and spontaneous with the same person on different occasions, that's wonderful. But does that spontaneity ever take the form of sharing your approach to the Yi with the querent? Do you ever find yourself saying stuff like: "Yeah, you can ask that, but the results won't be that useful probably. But if you ask the question this way..."

 

[lenardthefast]

Dobro,

Very, very gently, and only if the question appears to be originating from a place of confusion or is many-faceted/obtuse. Of course, this may not be possible when dealing with complete strangers, in which case I might explain that my experience with the Yi has been GI/GO, or words to that effect. But, I never do in-depth readings for complete strangers anymore. In fact, I have little use for the divination aspects of the Yi, except occasionally for myself, and then only for the more mundane aspects of life, such as job choices/career changes or relationship clarification. I am much more interested in the 'lessons', and these can be reached by randomly opening the book and reading what is received.

Namaste,

Leonard

 

[dharma]

Candid,<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

have missed your input<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>
i suppose my input had become a predictable given

but all things need an element of uncertainty to remain interesting... just going with the flow...

enjoying the sound of all the different voices chiming in (remember when the regulars around here seemed to be mainly you, me, Hilary and ChrisL?)

times change... finding immense appreciation for the unpredictable.

quiet, yet still here... and finding value in the wisdom emitting from the many vantages of consciousness that have made their way here

 

[dharma]

Hi Dobro,

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Do you ever find yourself saying stuff like: "Yeah, you can ask that, but the results won't be that useful probably. But if you ask the question this way..."<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

of course, eSPEcially when working with someone for the first time - i share any new ideas and\or approaches that work for me with my regular clients all the time. i try to give the people i work with the benefit of all the knowledge i have at my disposal so that they get the very best out of the time they pay good money for

i emphasize from the very start that the formulation of the question is at the very heart of getting the most accurate and detailed response from any reading. therefore, i make sure that they consider precisely why they are coming to see me so that they arrive for their appointment "prepared"

before an appointment is ever set up with a new client, i ask if they've ever done this sort of thing before and i try to find out roughly what their expectations are. i refuse to work with anyone who is merely coming for entertainment; not interested in "convincing" anyone of the validity of what i do

if they have seen other readers before, i make them aware that we aren't all cut from the same cloth; that we each have our own method and approach. and i make them aware that i may not necessarily be the best reader for them

for people who have never even done this sort of thing before, i make them aware that i don't read minds, i am not a magician, and that there are no circumstances that will ever compel me to tell them that they, or someone else, will die (surprisingly, many newcomers will needlessly suffer anxiety about what they will be told in a reading if this isn't mentioned beforehand)

there... that should just about cover it