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When the IChing gives conflicting answers ...
- Thread starter timmy
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dear timmy,
if a hexagram gives a situation that develops in time, then the first line is the onset of the situation, the opening, the impuls, and the top line is the leaving of the situation, the looking back, the moment of evaluation. In people the first line is the junior, the student, the last line the teacher. In general line 4 represents the position of that what is to emerge in the very near future but also the official, the one that executes the mind of the ruler, the minister, the one that stands for the norms and values that are unfoiling from the way of the ruler in this situation on the 5th line.
So those conflicting lines might reperesent different stages in a development in time, you will learn to see things differently. Or they might say: if you behave like a minister then this will happen and if you behave like a teacher that will happen in this situation.
But,..... everything in interpretation depends on your question
if a hexagram gives a situation that develops in time, then the first line is the onset of the situation, the opening, the impuls, and the top line is the leaving of the situation, the looking back, the moment of evaluation. In people the first line is the junior, the student, the last line the teacher. In general line 4 represents the position of that what is to emerge in the very near future but also the official, the one that executes the mind of the ruler, the minister, the one that stands for the norms and values that are unfoiling from the way of the ruler in this situation on the 5th line.
So those conflicting lines might reperesent different stages in a development in time, you will learn to see things differently. Or they might say: if you behave like a minister then this will happen and if you behave like a teacher that will happen in this situation.
But,..... everything in interpretation depends on your question
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Conflicting Lines
Hi Timmy,
My own approach to this is to look carefully at the context and approach. Why are the contradictory lines set within that particular hexagram? What is that hexagram saying before you even look at the moving lines? Does it reflect, perhaps, how the I Ching views your trajectory towards the situation you are asking about? If you can get this part as clear as possible it often 'unlocks' the contradiction. It's a bit like finding the lowest common denominator in maths, when it's found it works perfectly with all the different fractions in the equation.
The contrasting lines might reflect different time aspects in a situation as it unfolds, or they might represent your present approach versus the approach the I Ching would rather you take, or your present perception of a situation might be contrasted with a more complete perception - the possible combinations are many, but the key factor, IMO, is that their meanings must be compatible with the common context and, as far as possible, with the resulting hexagram (the Zhi Gua). Perhaps this explanation might be made clearer by an example:
The example involves a long-standing situation in which I have, somewhat reluctantly, followed the direction given by the I Ching on a particular issue. I've always seen the reasoning and eventual purpose in this direction but, on a personal level, I've often felt that it involved unnecessary difficulty. My question (one of many over a long period) asked if I should continue to take this direction. The answer: Hex 50,4,6 > 46
Line 4: The legs of the Ting are broken. The prince's meal is spilled and his person soiled. Misfortune
Line 6: The Ting has rings of jade. Great good fortune. Nothing that would not act to further.
On first appearance, two very different and contradictory pieces of advice - so where's the commonality that links them together? Has Hex 50, Ting, got anything to do with carrying on with a particular path or direction? No,not directly, but it has got a lot to do with consolidating one's position and future destiny. It urges being gently receptive so that 'ear and eye become sharp and clear' - in other words we attain clarity of perception, we listen to the guidance we are given, and allow the golden carrying rings to receive 'what is real.' The Ting is a beautiful metaphor for our cognitive processes, our powers of discrimination and open receptivity.
So the context the I Ching has chosen is one of being receptive to its guidance, and within that context it gives me Line 4 - 'The legs of the Ting are broken...' The responsibility entrusted to one at fourth yang has not been met. The food that should provide nourishment to my sense of position and direction is spilled and lost. In Daoism this is loss of the gold elixir through mundane conditioning. The purposive direction that I had sustained thus far was in danger of being spoiled through carelessness and irresolute thinking hence the Zhi Gua for this line - Hex 18, Work on What has Been Spoiled.
Top yang, 'The Ting has rings of jade. Great good fortune...' A yang line in a yin position, top yang 'embodies hardness and strength yet treads the path of softness and compliance...because such a one achieves a regulated balance of strength and compliance, he is able to lift up that which is his responsibility.' - (Wang Bi). This line is counseling me to attain a balance of compliance and hardness; compliance in order to be receptive to the guidance being given, hardness in order to carry the responsibility of the position. The Zhi Gua for this line, Hex 32, Duration, makes it fairly clear that the I Ching is suggesting I continue on in my present direction.
So there was no contradiction between lines four and six. Within the overall context of being receptive to guidance and formulating a decision, Line 4 was warning me of the danger of spoiling what had been achieved thus far by losing my direction, Line 6 was urging me to be receptive enough to listen, strong enough to carry on. In this case there was no predictive sequence with these lines, they weren't saying this will happen and then that will happen, they simply described my options from a more universal, less personal, perspective. The final choice was always going to be my own. Guess what I did...
Hi Timmy,
Timmy said:
My own approach to this is to look carefully at the context and approach. Why are the contradictory lines set within that particular hexagram? What is that hexagram saying before you even look at the moving lines? Does it reflect, perhaps, how the I Ching views your trajectory towards the situation you are asking about? If you can get this part as clear as possible it often 'unlocks' the contradiction. It's a bit like finding the lowest common denominator in maths, when it's found it works perfectly with all the different fractions in the equation.
The contrasting lines might reflect different time aspects in a situation as it unfolds, or they might represent your present approach versus the approach the I Ching would rather you take, or your present perception of a situation might be contrasted with a more complete perception - the possible combinations are many, but the key factor, IMO, is that their meanings must be compatible with the common context and, as far as possible, with the resulting hexagram (the Zhi Gua). Perhaps this explanation might be made clearer by an example:
The example involves a long-standing situation in which I have, somewhat reluctantly, followed the direction given by the I Ching on a particular issue. I've always seen the reasoning and eventual purpose in this direction but, on a personal level, I've often felt that it involved unnecessary difficulty. My question (one of many over a long period) asked if I should continue to take this direction. The answer: Hex 50,4,6 > 46
Line 4: The legs of the Ting are broken. The prince's meal is spilled and his person soiled. Misfortune
Line 6: The Ting has rings of jade. Great good fortune. Nothing that would not act to further.
On first appearance, two very different and contradictory pieces of advice - so where's the commonality that links them together? Has Hex 50, Ting, got anything to do with carrying on with a particular path or direction? No,not directly, but it has got a lot to do with consolidating one's position and future destiny. It urges being gently receptive so that 'ear and eye become sharp and clear' - in other words we attain clarity of perception, we listen to the guidance we are given, and allow the golden carrying rings to receive 'what is real.' The Ting is a beautiful metaphor for our cognitive processes, our powers of discrimination and open receptivity.
So the context the I Ching has chosen is one of being receptive to its guidance, and within that context it gives me Line 4 - 'The legs of the Ting are broken...' The responsibility entrusted to one at fourth yang has not been met. The food that should provide nourishment to my sense of position and direction is spilled and lost. In Daoism this is loss of the gold elixir through mundane conditioning. The purposive direction that I had sustained thus far was in danger of being spoiled through carelessness and irresolute thinking hence the Zhi Gua for this line - Hex 18, Work on What has Been Spoiled.
Top yang, 'The Ting has rings of jade. Great good fortune...' A yang line in a yin position, top yang 'embodies hardness and strength yet treads the path of softness and compliance...because such a one achieves a regulated balance of strength and compliance, he is able to lift up that which is his responsibility.' - (Wang Bi). This line is counseling me to attain a balance of compliance and hardness; compliance in order to be receptive to the guidance being given, hardness in order to carry the responsibility of the position. The Zhi Gua for this line, Hex 32, Duration, makes it fairly clear that the I Ching is suggesting I continue on in my present direction.
So there was no contradiction between lines four and six. Within the overall context of being receptive to guidance and formulating a decision, Line 4 was warning me of the danger of spoiling what had been achieved thus far by losing my direction, Line 6 was urging me to be receptive enough to listen, strong enough to carry on. In this case there was no predictive sequence with these lines, they weren't saying this will happen and then that will happen, they simply described my options from a more universal, less personal, perspective. The final choice was always going to be my own. Guess what I did...
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Hi Peter
Thank you for taking the time to write the above. I found it extremely informative and very interesting.
I'm guessing (and hoping) that you continued in the direction you were already going - as per your intuitive and rational understanding of the IChing's advice. Despite the fact your sometimes thinking it was causing unnecessary difficulty.
One question - deciding whether the lines are in a predictive order or just pointing out two different perspectives and their outcomes, is that down to intuitive (and rational) discernment.
Thank you very much for such an informative reply.
Timmy
Thank you for taking the time to write the above. I found it extremely informative and very interesting.
I'm guessing (and hoping) that you continued in the direction you were already going - as per your intuitive and rational understanding of the IChing's advice. Despite the fact your sometimes thinking it was causing unnecessary difficulty.
One question - deciding whether the lines are in a predictive order or just pointing out two different perspectives and their outcomes, is that down to intuitive (and rational) discernment.
Thank you very much for such an informative reply.
Timmy
Conflicting Lines
Hi Timmy,
I'm afraid it all depends on your 'take' of the situation and the reading; there are no fixed rules, not that I've come across so far at least. In the above example that I gave, some might argue that it was directly predictive - Line 4, = 'this is what your doing now, you're spoiling the work you've done' - Line 6 = 'This is what you'll end up doing, this is how it will turn out.' I saw it as more of a moral choice (and yes, I did carry on) but we can walk over any I Ching directive, none of them are cast in concrete. The danger is that when we ignore the guidance we receive we might not necessarily recognize the consequences, the house doesn't fall down so we imagine we did the right thing. We fail to see that we missed an opportunity for moral growth or that we might have unknowingly compromised others. These things don't always work on an immediate mechanical, materialistic level, but eventually our external circumstances mirror our internal reality. In that sense, even readings that are directed primarily at our state of mind have a predictive quality, it's all a matter of degree.
Hi Timmy,
Timmy said:
I'm afraid it all depends on your 'take' of the situation and the reading; there are no fixed rules, not that I've come across so far at least. In the above example that I gave, some might argue that it was directly predictive - Line 4, = 'this is what your doing now, you're spoiling the work you've done' - Line 6 = 'This is what you'll end up doing, this is how it will turn out.' I saw it as more of a moral choice (and yes, I did carry on) but we can walk over any I Ching directive, none of them are cast in concrete. The danger is that when we ignore the guidance we receive we might not necessarily recognize the consequences, the house doesn't fall down so we imagine we did the right thing. We fail to see that we missed an opportunity for moral growth or that we might have unknowingly compromised others. These things don't always work on an immediate mechanical, materialistic level, but eventually our external circumstances mirror our internal reality. In that sense, even readings that are directed primarily at our state of mind have a predictive quality, it's all a matter of degree.
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