When will the crisis be over? 17.1 - 45.

[mandarin_23]

When I red this question and answer, I didn't realize at first that it was posed and answered two years ago.

The 17.1 line describes an opening, a great relief maybe - leaving something behind. Standards change. "An official has a change of heart." I think the officals here are those responsible in the WHO. As soon as they conclude that this is not a pandemic any more, then this will be the beginning of a new situation.

As we still are in a pandemy, goverment are obliged to take measurements and campaign for inoculation. When I see the 45 as a related hexagram, it makes me think that this situation is international and affects a great part of mankind.

 

[surnevs]

There are older postings than this which still isn't soluted. And this crisis mentioned here isn't soluted yet.
To find out when (not how) this crisis is over the I Ching should be capable of - at least in theory.
Like Moss Elk pointed out (#23) " ....... it will be over, when your local government tells you it is by rescinding any lockdown orders. ......" and this answer is quite simple understandable. This is the way the I Ching tells it...
When I re-mentioned this "old" inquiry from two years ago it was because I'm interested in, what also the philosophers of the Song era were occupied with, namely to find a possible method in predictions in time ie our sense of everyday time/hour/day/year.
For example, a businessman can't use a prediction like: "The bus will arrive when You can see it turn around the corner over there", this answer is comparable with the answer given by the I Ching - No, he needs an answer that can tell him whether it's necessary to make a phone call or not.
Personally, I'm still interested in this despite failures in my guessings/predictions occurs.
Or, I find it interesting and it's a part of my exploring Divination....

 

[redoleander]

We probably see life differently. Life isn't just breathing to me, it's much more.

Maybe revisit some of your Reading Circle threads which directly contradict everything you wrote here regarding your actual behavior.

And no, my life is not just “breathing”. People not behaving as you doesn’t mean we don’t have a valuable or interesting life. It’s a respect for lives other than just our own. Testing or masking or small things like this, to make things safer for everyone, aren’t oppression.

 

[redoleander]

@my_key There are two different worldviews here. One in which those with “comorbidities” are acceptable sacrifice and one in which they are not. Many like to say the latter but then choose the former with their actions. That is eugenics. Which is what I explained.

Dr John Campbell is a retired nursing educator who does not treat COVID patients. As I mentioned, that is not a source I would use.

 

[my_key]

@my_key There are two different worldviews here. One in which those with “comorbidities” are acceptable sacrifice and one in which they are not. Many like to say the latter but then choose the former with their actions. That is eugenics. Which is what I explained.

Dr John Campbell is a retired nursing educator who does not treat COVID patients. As I mentioned, that is not a source I would use.

Eugenics was one of the explanations that the Nazis used in World War 2 to legitimise their treatment of the Jews. Their focus was based in negative eugenics i.e decreasing undesirable traits in a population. Positive eugenics refers to efforts aimed at increasing desirable traits in a population.

The dilemma in all of this is who is the arbiter that judges which traits are inferior and which are superior. This is dangerous ground and i'm still not clear on how this fits into the topic of the question. (When will the crisis be over?)

Equally, comorbidity is a term that simply defines when multiple diseases are simultaneously present. People die from comorbidity every day. Just because one of the diseases happens to be a covid strain and that person dies, how is that different from someone dying from a comorbidity of influenza and pneumonia? How are you defining the 'sacrifice' and where is it resting in your thinking as acceptable and / or unacceptable?

Dr John Campbell is everything that you say. However you tell only a small part of the experience and qualifications he has, which I think is doing him a great disservice. He has well over 30 years of wide ranging international medical experience. He has a masters degree and a pHD in health care. Which I think more than qualifies him to present the current data and expert views of others in covid related matters.

You are right that he does not treat covid however that is not necessary as his you tube channel, he openly declares, is based on being educational and informative with a view to getting at the truth. His videos are based on current up to the minute data from world-renowned impeccable sources which he presents in a manner that is relaxed and simple to understand. The published papers he cites are again current and from trustworthy sources within the international medical world.

All data sources and medical papers are clearly identified and sources given. Examples being Office of National Statistics, Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, British Medical Journal and many more. He presents and makes understandable what experts in the field are reporting and so the fact he does not treat covid himself is of no importance - in fact I'd call it a red herring.

It's absolutely fine with me that you are not going to use him as a source, however the way you have presented him I felt was belittling, not truly representative, and most of all it is misleading. It may be that your perspective would be adopted by others, without their own research, so I just wanted to honour the man more fully and to tell a more complete story.

Here he tells his own story for anyone who wants to get a true measure of the man.

Good Luck

 

[Olga Super Star]

So that you don't die from the virus.

Most of the deaths here are now people who did not receive the vaccine.
(Think about that)
Most medications have side effects.
You can get sick still, but likely won't die.

Isn't that motivation enough?

Mr Elk, hello

I look at data and I have a 0.1 chance of dying from it, considering my age and health conditions. Adding to it the fact that I work online, I have no children, and am mostly homebound, the chances of even getting the virus are reduced to almost 0.

I am aware that I might be unlucky but I might be unlucky with the vaccine too, so for the time being I have made my decision. If smallpox is made to leak from a laboratory, I will be the first one to get in a line to have my shot, of that I am sure.

 

[moss elk]

I look at data and I have a 0.1 chance of dying from it

Fair enough.

But, What are the chances your mother would survive it if you brought it home?
Do you have the right to decide for her?

Yes, I understand that omicron is different than at the beginning,
But the other variants are still around.

I won't linger on this or harp on you.

 

[Olga Super Star]

Maybe revisit some of your Reading Circle threads which directly contradict everything you wrote here regarding your actual behavior.

I don't think I ever wrote that I don't wear masks.

And no, my life is not just “breathing”. People not behaving as you doesn’t mean we don’t have a valuable or interesting life. It’s a respect for lives other than just our own. Testing or masking or small things like this, to make things safer for everyone, aren’t oppression.

I always mask. I don't mask in the outdoor because that is a useless rule and I reject it.

I am not going to test to get into a post office or a shop because that is another useless new rule that will be in place next week. For two years it was fine to get into a shop without testing, now it has become necessary to test if you are not vaccinated, while all experts say that if you wear a proper mask and buy a hat, nothing will happen to the shop assistant.
Or we should have had by now all people working in supermarkets ill, but that is not the case: we mask, they mask, everything is fine.

Also, vaccinated people can have covid too but they are not required to test. That's discriminating.
Also, you test today and you test negative, but you may actually not be negative at all. So it's all a big business, the only ones profiting are factories making masks and tests, and some of our politicians have their hands on those too.

Von Der Leyen has been asking for mandatory vaccination for all Europeans, but her husband has been linked to Pfizer business.
They were talking about having a shot every 4 months, but thank god someone said this is no good for our immune system.

 

[Olga Super Star]

But, What are the chances your mother would survive it if you brought it home?
Do you have the right to decide for her?

I could bring it home in either case, vaccinated or not.
She is actually more likely to bring it home to me, she has been going to the restaurant and cinema these two years, I haven't (I will start to do it though, against the law).

She got her vaccine, she should be fine. You said with vaccine the illness is less severe, right?
By the way my Mom lost mobility of her arm, I d rather avoid it.

If a new sharp variant comes out, I might change my mind. I am not completely against it, I am just saying that our government is behaving crazy and making pointless decisions.

I know of 55 year olds who have tried, who are still trying, to get covid on purpose so as to be able to go to work. This is very dangerous! I retain the government responsible for any death that should derive from it. You can't stop people from supporting themselves and not expect them to do anything possible to go to work.
There are jobs done on your own, in the open air. But the government decides unvaccinated people can't work, even if living by themselves on the top of a mountain. Their factory has to stop. If he makes cheese by himself, he has to stop and go where? Begging in the street? His cows not milked? This is all nonsense, this is what I am angry about.

 

[surnevs]

On #62 above, here, I have to add the importance of Bradford Hatchers advice concerning making predictions into dates: LINK

 

[moss elk]

...

Sounds crazy where you live.
(Trust me, it's been crazy here as well,
you get to see it on tv. We had covid +
3 of 10 people being hypnotised by the former 'president' who tried to make himself king with the help of the fossil fuel mafia, race riots, opportunists of all kinds preying on the people)

Could you explain the part about
intentionally catching covid to be able to go to work ?
I'm still not getting that part.

 

[moss elk]

For example, a businessman can't use a prediction like: "The bus will arrive when You can see it turn around the corner over there", this answer is comparable with the answer given by the I Ching - No, he needs an answer that can tell him whether it's necessary to make a phone call or not.

A wise, perceptive and insightful businessman could surely use it. :]
He could ask, "better to phone or wait about x?"

I also think it depends on the development of the person, I might even go out on a limb to say that some of the wild qualities or bad dispositions that get tamed within a mature person, are the very things that stand in the way of 'understanding one's readings'

That and the regular personal blind spots,
Psychological issues, and terrible translations/commentaries are to blame.

Sven, a time factor people often overlook is the inclusion of it in the question:

Example: "is it a good idea to do this?"
Is very different than, "is it good to do this today/tomorrow?"
(insert time frame here.)
The inclusion of the time factor is crucial.

 

[surnevs]

2014/15 I was confronted with the question: "When will You be able to start again" from my employer and this was a concrete question. She had to know if she could manage colleagues/family members or friends to take over my place while I was away - or if she should hire a deputy for a longer period. My doctor couldn't tell and I could only say to my employer that I didn't know and would do my hardest to return for duty as soon as possible. Could it be that the I Ching could give me a hint? The best I could interpret the oracle was at first wrong - my employer knows nothing about me concerning I Ching readings - and this interpretation I told her in the way like: "I hope to be back in X month", hoping that it miraculously went out so.
Long story short: I needed a time in the day/week/month format. I later collected the postings from this onlineclarity thread and if interested and time is at hand: LINK

It would have been beneficial to be able to tell my employer a date and I know that even how sure I might have been in my interpretation it would still have been adviseable to express this as a guess.

 

[Liselle]

The thread is also still on the forum, in addition to the pdf Surnevs compiled.

Loosing my job ?

I'll try to make this short. On sunday 21 of december I woked up to a feeling of twitch in my left foot and leg and since then I haven't been able to walk proper. Today I can move around limited with the help of a walkingstick. My doctor had calmed me that it's not a coronary and advised me...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

 

[surnevs]

Is it possible to answer the initial question in civil time? Moss Elk answered it perfectly in "the I Ching Time-frame". For my part, I can't help having a passion for the Idea that the I Ching could encompass answers involving civil time/Calendar-time but I also have experience with this leading into such complicated areas almost leading away than into answers. Sorry for sounding assertive here but failures in predictions should lead to more intensive research rather than giving up and here such inquiries as in this thread can serve as opportunities to - in this case - understand what is to be gained from hex. 17.1
Time will show when this crisis ends and a second look at the reading will possible also show that the oracle did encompass all of the postings added in this thread.
I was the one who took up this question after nearly two years (#27) and I still find the topic relevant concerning the exploration of the I Ching.

---------------------------

I think Stephen Karcher expresses this, about Time in one and the other Sense very good. I've attached a cut from his book The I Ching-Plain and Simple

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[Olga Super Star]

Could you explain the part about
intentionally catching covid to be able to go to work ?
I'm still not getting that part.

After you have had covid, you are allowed to work for a few months. Then you either get another shot or you get covid again.
I know of people who have had two vaccines but, not wanting to get their third shot, they are trying to fall ill. Very dangerous.

 

[surnevs]

Light ahead

see more​