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When will the crisis be over? 17.1 - 45.

rosada

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I don't know how to decipher dates from the hexagrams but sometimes I get useful answers about timing by asking questions along the lines of "What will be a sign that x is about to happen?" So knowing that the pundits are predicting things are going to get worse with the coronavirus before they get better I wanted to know when does the "better" start happening. 17.1 - 45.

17.1
An official has a change of heart.
Constancy, good fortune.
Going out of the gates, joining with others, there is achievement.

"An official has a change of heart."The President here in the U.S. originally downplayed the seriousness of the situation so maybe this line is saying that for the situation to get better first we will need to see officials changing their attitudes from trying to protect Wall Street to caring about the people.

"Constancy, good fortune." So taking some measures that need to be continued over time. No quick fix like a vaccine but maybe quarantines will work.

"Going out of the gates, joining with others, there is achievement." Sounds like people joining together again after the quarantines are lifted. Perhaps it also is saying that before the solutions can be found there will need to be a significant coming together of people/countries who might have previously been walled off from each other to share information and come up with solutions.

All in all I think this is saying things are going to first get bad enough that the government has to admit the crisis is not a hoax, then there will be some policies put in place like quarantines that will have to be followed for a significant period of time, and finally we will know things are getting better when people feel it's safe to start coming out in public again.

Does anyone else think how ironic it is that after all the big to-do about keeping out the supposed terrorists/aliens we now are faced with having to deal with some truly deadly invaders (germs)?
 
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moss elk

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Yes, it will be contained when the officials do the necessary things to contain it.

Look what the dim one did now:
First he didn't cancel his rallies. (while the other candidates did.. maybe it's an exercise in natural selection.) and second he exempted his resorts from the 30 day us~eu travel ban announced last night.

 
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svenrus

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Yea, interesting. The method I used has worked nearly exactly out some years ago for me. But I'll not dive deeper into it here in case it doesn't fit because: for what use then will it be ? If it shows up, surprisingly, that it fit's on September let's say +/- one month then remind me when that time comes (and the yellow plague hopefully has left us all alive) and I'll explain it.
 

Noukii

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I don’t know but... this made me think about an officer able to say or do something that hasn’t been said or done yet. And by now almost everyone already agree about the social restrictions so I wouldn’t see a change of heart following this path.
I noticed that right today the French health minister said something new about the virus, and how it may severely affect people who use some kind of anti inflammatory drugs. He just talked about that, but the issue is wider and there are doctors who already brought light on this subject, which deserves further and quick investigation.
 
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Querent777

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"When will the crisis be over?" 17.1 > 45

45 - Large gatherings of people to see the great man. Usually I would see this as context, but here it might indicate what the end of the situation is, the context is when we will get back to people mass gathering in churches and temples and stadiums and rock concerts and Bernie and MAGA rallies again.

* This may mean the Yi is giving you a non-answer to your asked question. The Yi says when we get back to large gatherings, it will be over. Duh.
If so the 17.1 line may actually be asking the question you really have. How has the President been handling the crisis?

17.1 - Legge: The first line, dynamic, shows us one changing the object of his pursuit; if he is firmly correct there will be good fortune. Going beyond his own gate to find associates, he will achieve merit.
Wilhelm/Baynes: The standard is changing. Perseverance brings good fortune. To go out of the door in company produces deeds.
Wu: The way of conducting public affairs is subject to change. Perseverance will bring good fortune. Success can be had by communicating with people from without.
COMMENTARY
Confucius/Legge: He will not fail in the method he pursues.

I think this line says what we have been seeing, the President surrounded by public health experts from the CDC and NIH in news conferences, proactively working with them and taking their pandemic response team advice. He has also met with the Health Insurance industry and got them to commit to no copays and carrying the cost of treatment and testing, also for medicaid and medicare and been working with congress.
On the economic impact side, he has been doing the same thing with Business leadership and his economic advisors, working the economic side of the problem.

In any event the lines do not indicate a protracted crisis as far as I can see.
They seem to indicate the measures being taken currently will be enough to end the crisis successfully.

- LL
 

diamanda

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the French health minister said something new about the virus, and how it may severely affect people who use some kind of anti inflammatory drugs.
It's fake news that anti-inflammatory medication (ibuprofen) is 'bad' for corona virus. It's a rumour which was first said to come from "Vienna university" - they immediately denied this. Then the fake rumour somehow reached France. And given the fact that France have run out of ibuprofen, we can easily see why their minister would support this silly rumour. There is NO such scientific or anecdotal evidence.
 

Noukii

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It's fake news that anti-inflammatory medication (ibuprofen) is 'bad' for corona virus. It's a rumour which was first said to come from "Vienna university" - they immediately denied this. Then the fake rumour somehow reached France. And given the fact that France have run out of ibuprofen, we can easily see why their minister would support this silly rumour. There is NO such scientific or anecdotal evidence.
Sorry but what are your references for saying this is fake news?
This was not only said by him, it was also suggested in an article published on The Lancet:


In case you don’t now: “The Lancet is a weekly peer-reviewed general medical journal. It is among the world's oldest, most prestigious, and best known general medical journals”

Read the article and then if you want tell me that they are spreading fake news!

also: It’s not a Vienna University it is a Swiss doctor from a Swiss university that at first said it his name is Rami Sommerstein:


maybe you could explain where you heard that France has run out of ibuprofen because this really sounds like silly rumor fake news. In the news I can’t even find ANY article mentioning some “Vienna university denying” anything. And if you find any reference mentioning it, make sure it’s a good one.
 
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diamanda

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"And make sure it's a good one"? I don't like your tone.

Here's how to find out more about this Vienna hoax. Google the phrase "ibuprofen covid vienna". There will be tons of results in German. Hit on 'translate page' on any of them.

As about the article you're linking, it states extremely clearly that "treatment was not assessed in either study". They're just hypothesising that patients with hypertension and diabetes might be more prone to covid. They didn't even test ibuprofen.

If you want to know more about ibuprofen shortages worldwide right now, go into any online store of any European country, and try to buy ibuprofen. Also, try to be more polite.
 

Noukii

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I’m sorry if you didn’t like my tone. I’ll try to express better. I see that my words may sound rude and I apologize.

I know it’s an hypothesis, that’s why Olivier Véran didn’t tell people to stop taking their meds, but to be very careful, avoid if possible and talk with their own doctors about it.

If countries run out of ibuprofen I fear that it’s because so many people take them easily: if there’s even the smallest link with the virus this is really worrying.

I hope that, since the people who raised the issue are doctors, and the journal is trusted, the scientific community will as soon as possible tell more about it.

Meanwhile, these are still hypotheses, that could be right or wrong, but only further studies can tell it, not an online newspaper saying it’s bs.

Also, since the studies don’t come from Vienna of course the university had to rectify, but this doesn’t mean that the study is bs, only because someone mentioned the wrong university.

Last but not least, maybe they didn’t assessed ibuprofen because it is already known to interact with those angiotensin receptors, since this is even mentioned in package insert.
 
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rosada

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Thank you, LL, for your insights and particularly for posting all your sources so we could follow your thinking and be inspired to come up with our own ideas.

Now I’m seeing how 17.1 could be referring to each one of us individually going through soul tests as this isolation has us we staying put without worldly distractions. We are confronted with the true state of our inner selves And this creates an awakening within us, a longing for the truth. This desire for truth causes us to quickly discard anything that is not true - including old hurts, old grudges, old debts. We discover the more we forgive the lighter we feel, the more light we are filled with. With this renewed and strengthened inner awareness we now know life goes on forever and we boldly go out into the crowds again, no longer afraid of death.

When the standard changes, when mankind values the truth above all else,
Then perseverance becomes possible and one can go out into the world and join with others to create a world based on this new clarity.
 
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moss elk

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Now I’m seeing how 17.1 could be referring to each one of us individually going through soul tests as this isolation has us we staying put without worldly distractions.
While such tests may certainly occur
(heck one could argue that all of life was a sink or swim 'soul test'),
that has nothing to do with the line.
it is specifically abour laws, rules, regulations, government mandates ,
decrees changing things. ..etc

17.1 came up just before the governor in my state announced cannabis was to be made legal. (but I'd still say Rosada was the real mendicinos finest) :)
 
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rosada

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I'll try again -

I am seeing the "official" in this hexagram as referring to our own personal official - our inner conscience that we must follow no matter who the outer commander might be.

Back up a bit and note the sequence.
In 13 -14 we have people coming together to help and share and thus a feeling of Abundance. This experience empowers a person to feel that with group support..
15. they are safe and secure and can make their way in the world without needing to exploit or be exploited and thus can quietly join in and be a part of....
16. the whole universal dance. And when I say whole universal dance I mean not just the mutual support of those who are in body form, but also a recognition of angels and demons and all that is. With this recognition we also recognize the validity of the theory of reincarnation, that we die and are born again, over and over (16.5). The only requirement is to get to go everywhere, see and do everything is to stay Modest, on our own path true to ourselves and not afraid.

Knowing our lives are eternal leads to or awakens a new set of values (17.1) The "official" referred to in this line can then refer to any official one is personally following and in my interpretation I am saying the official is one's own conscience and I am suggesting that the change of heart described here with the coronavirus is the shift from being afraid and catastrophsing every thing we hear on the news, to the recognition that death is not final or even inevitable and that the we must follow our own conscience in determining whether we are going to follow orders to stay locked up or if we're going to take reasonable precautions or if we're going to run around hugging strangers. It's each individual's call.

The bottomline is the coronavirus "crisis" is going to be over when people calm down and again start thinking sanely. Get out of panic mode! Then what does the crisis become? Hmm new question for the IC..
 
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moss elk

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I am seeing the "official" in this hexagram as referring to our own personal official - our inner conscience that we must follow no matter who the outer commander might be.
Why try to stretch the meaning when the answer is literally referring to laws/regulations/officials changing the rules?

Get out of panic mode!
I wholeheartedly agree.
Then what does the crisis become?
It becomes a crisis that people are calmly dealing with in the correct way.
 
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Pyramid

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I somewhat agree with rosada, that there is a global shift in approaches and routines, I see it both inner and outer.

Hexagram 17 Line 1 The situation has changed and minds have changed = impulse rising, going out of the gate. Changes to (45) Gathering Together. Adapting to a change requires new approaches that can only be explored by leaving the familiar. Allow the time to reveal itself in the changed minds of others. Be open to input. There are consequences that affect all involved. A discussion or meeting brings people together to make amends. Influence is an outer prompting while impulse is an inner sense. Allow someone the space to discover the impulse rather than attempting to influence or push.

I am a member of many meetups and groups. Also an expat with links in different continents. Many people have started to be in charge of their immediate circles, by defining new rules of communication (for example changing to online gatherings) and refining their hygiene habits. And most important, by joining each other in enforcing these new rules. I see it as a movement which spans nations, and not necessarily merely depending on government officials. Makes me proud!

I am sure there is still a good amount of people who are not aware or a part of this, may they join, the situation will change for the better. It has already started!
 

Virupaksha

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Hey all, longtime lurker. First post

Sorry to be joining the forums under these circumstances. I've been casting about the Covid-19 outbreak pretty much daily. Most recently I asked the same question as OP and received 14.1.4.5>57

Not sure about changing line practices for you all, but if I get 3 lines I usually read the middle of the 3 lines. (I think it's Wing's rules?) I'm still sorta new to interpreting but this sounds like a fairly moderate line in an otherwise fortunate hexagram. It seems to generally call for restraint and not overstepping authorities?

Can't quite read too much from it otherwise. I agree with the September timeline generally. I practice Vedic Astrology as well (apologies if this forum tries to veer away from that kinda thing). Ketu (south node) in Sagittarius and Rahu (north node) in gemini predictably leads to some kind of disaster, especially when mars joins the south node as they amplify each other (they conjuncted this March). Last time this happened was 9/11 here in the US. (Sagittarius is generally given as 1st house for US chart). The south node will leave Sagittarius in September. Although I think some moderate form of relief is visible in April. Jupiter, even though it's beneficial, can sometimes expand things. Since Jupiter-Mars-Ketu are all in Sag right now that can cause significant disturbance in the world, Mars-Ketu amplifying each other and Jupiter expanding that intensity to a global scale. I use the sidereal zodiac if people are unfamiliar with these placements.

I casted about the outcome when Jupiter & Mars leave Sagittarius (which happens by April 1st) And received 54.1.2.4.6>23, and from my rules I read line 5 (the upper non-changing line) which I interpret as meaning there will be some kind of subordination in society but it will lead to good fortune- generic interpretation I know I'm hoping others have a better read.

I've also been doing this thing recently which I've not seen much- If I have multiple changing lines I read the respective line of the new hexagram as well. So I read line 5 of hexagram 23 which is more clear cut- there will be some stabilization of the chaos we're experiencing now. In the US we're still not social distancing much which is not great. We'll have to see where things go.
 
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Liselle

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I wonder if LL is on to something. 17 can mean following as in tracking (see Bradford), and widespread testing (big testing effort, 45) will allow them to track it. Maybe the government getting behind that could be line 1?

Might also help with a similar question I tried Googling for today, how will they know? How to tell when it's over-over, as opposed to seems over (until we stick our heads out and start it back up again). Something I read (sorry, didn't note the source) said not till there's a vaccine, which will be a while. But maybe massive testing/tracking would help.
 

marybluesky

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According to this Euronews article the life may take six months before returning to normal. In this case September will mark the end of crisis, as the readings predicted.

We should wait & see.
 

moss elk

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ok, literally:
When will it be over?
Standards (are literally: flags)
are rules under a banner,
under a leader, or great house,
government in our case.

It will be over,
when your local government tells you it is by rescinding any lockdown orders.
(oh, and the line also mentions going outside to interact. How fitting.)

That's how you'll know.
 
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marybluesky

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I think some moderate form of relief is visible in April. Jupiter, even though it's beneficial, can sometimes expand things. Since Jupiter-Mars-Ketu are all in Sag right now that can cause significant disturbance in the world, Mars-Ketu amplifying each other and Jupiter expanding that intensity to a global scale. I use the sidereal zodiac if people are unfamiliar with these placements.

I casted about the outcome when Jupiter & Mars leave Sagittarius (which happens by April 1st) And received 54.1.2.4.6>23, and from my rules I read line 5 (the upper non-changing line) which I interpret as meaning there will be some kind of subordination in society but it will lead to good fortune- generic interpretation I know I'm hoping others have a better read.
The coronavirus charts in this website show some relief since the beginning of April, especially in the most affected countries: the slope of the logarithmic curves, both for deaths and active cases, starts to moderate, which indicates the stabilization of numbers compared to the upward trend during March.
 

marybluesky

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This data-driven prediction done by Singapore University estimates the date of coronavirus end in highly affected countries around August- September (different for any country).

According to this website the coronavirus will end all over the world in December, and the infection rate in most countries will considerably fall (by 97%) up to the end of May.
 

Querent777

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The current IHME modeling projections as of 4-30 are 44 deaths a day by June 1 and zero deaths a day by June 30. It had been predicting zero deaths by July 4th just yesterday, so a little improved, in the past 24 hours.
If we beat those numbers we will be in good shape. The best epidemiologists and infectious disease specialist in the world still maintain it is possible the virus is seasonal, like the flu. (Yes they have also heard of India and Australia. The flu is also seasonal there, and when SARS the last coronavirus went away in 2004 it did not come back.)
Anyway if we beat those numbers we may have lucked out.

- LL
 

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