Why are all of the churches in the south being burned down? 46.3.5>29

[Bliss5702]

Hi. I was talking to some people about the happenings in the states about the burning of churches in the south. Most people seem to think that the actions are a hate crime against black people, however I tend to think that perhaps it's a wake up call for people to look a little deeper, to expand their awareness, and to become more independent in thought about religion and spirituality. So I asked the I Ching, why are all of the churches being burned down?

46.3.5>29

46 would suggest a pushing upward of consciousness and awareness.

Line 3: Wu: He ascends into the vacant city.
Wing: You may now advance with complete ease -- perhaps too much ease. This sudden lack of constraint may cause you misgivings. A little caution is a good thing now if you do not allow it to halt your progress completely.
The vacant city? What would the vacant city be in reference to?

Line 5: Legge: The fifth line, magnetic, shows its subject firmly correct, and therefore enjoying good fortune. She ascends the stairs with all due ceremony.
Could this also be in correlation with my idea of ascending in consciousness or becoming more aware?

And of course with hexagram 29, the emotions of the people who live for their churches are deep. But could this also be speaking about extreme danger of some sort? I don't quite understand how 46 and 29 work together.

Anyone have any feedback? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Tohpol]

Hi. I was talking to some people about the happenings in the states about the burning of churches in the south. Most people seem to think that the actions are a hate crime against black people, however I tend to think that perhaps it's a wake up call for people to look a little deeper, to expand their awareness, and to become more independent in thought about religion and spirituality. So I asked the I Ching, why are all of the churches being burned down?

Hello Bliss,

I think it's tempting to make evaluations about an individual's life from a spiritual perspective when we cannot really know the complex variables at work regarding what that person is here to learn. In the same way, as I'm sure you'd agree, to understand the tragic events you mention, first and foremost, is to offer compassion and empathy to those that lost their lives since it's characterised by pain and suffering.

To bring up the idea that this was all due to the fact that people needed to look a little deeper and expand their awareness, while not conceptually unsound at one level, at this level...it's akin to members at a funeral saying: "If you'd been a bit more aware like me when you were living then we wouldn't have been lowering you into a grave right now!" Can't you see how high my moral ground is?"

Hate crimes and spiritual growth are not mutually exclusive but certainly making judgements about the spiritual reasons for such events appears to be jumping the gun somewhat. Your notions of awareness expansion and "independence in thought" can only be highly subjective and drawn from assumptions that these victims needed their awareness expanding.

How can you know?

And how do you know that you are truly "awake"? : )

I'm being devil's advocate here Bliss but no doubt you see the point I'm trying to make. Obviously, feel free to take it or leave it.

As to the hexagram interpretations. 46 is spiritual potential. I think the Yi is providing a mirror of your own state than a focus on the event in question.

I believe you are referring to James DeKorne's interpretations. For line 3 it also mentions:

"Sometimes it can refer to making an assumption -- without, however, a clue as to whether the assumption is accurate!" And: "You are moving too fast."

Line 5, you mention: "Could this also be in correlation with my idea of ascending in consciousness or becoming more aware?"

Yes, but I suggest again, that this is in reference to your own naturally subjective perceptions on this matter.

"You are destined to reach your goals through a steady, step-by-step process. Do not let the coming heights of achievement make you heedless or heady with success. Continue in the thoroughness that led you to good fortune."

In other words, as your spiritual insight progresses perhaps this refers to not falling into assumptions regarding others' paths based on your own assimilated spiritual interpretations - something we are ALL prone to do - I know I am.

Best

 

[pocossin]

Your question is untrue. I live in the American South, which is crowded with churches, and new ones are being built or established in storefronts constantly. Church fires are much less common than house fires. I know of no church fires in my area.

 

[rosada]

I don't think Bliss is interpreting the answer as meaning the people in the church should have been more aware - like blame the victims - rather I think she's asking the I Ching to give some insight as to what the over arching spiritual lesson is for humanity in these tragic events. I think her question "Why are all the churches being burned?" is really asking why does God allow this to happen or what are we supposed to learn from this? If I am understanding her question correctly I would interpret her answer to mean something along the lines of

46. Advancing into an empty city.
I see this as meaning the question is about a situation that does not exist - that is, not "all" the churches are being burned down. So I think here the IC is cautioning that to get a meaningful answer it's important the question describe the situation precisely.

46.5 Step by step the person is able to make spiritual progress.
I see this line as suggesting these horrible events will cause people to wake up and recognize the enormity of the problems caused by racial prejudice. Already southern states are calling for the Confederate flag to be removed from the public buildings. A small step but significant.

29. Danger. The road to enlightenment is not a sunny walk in the park. Sometimes we have to wake up and smell the garbage.

So in answer to your question Bliss I think the I Ching is assuring us that while these events are mind boggling - like, how could this happen in a church? Where was God's protection? Was that what the IC meant at 46.3, that the church was like an "empty city," a church without guardian angels? - still it looks like these happenings are part of the path to higher consciousness.

Remember our thread about giving a song to each hexagram? Maybe 29. should be "Where have all the flowers gone ... when will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?"

 

[Trojina]

Topal's answer was brilliant.....

Rosada, Bliss said

Hi. I was talking to some people about the happenings in the states about the burning of churches in the south. Most people seem to think that the actions are a hate crime against black people, however I tend to think that perhaps it's a wake up call for people to look a little deeper, to expand their awareness, and to become more independent in thought about religion and spirituality. So I asked the I Ching, why are all of the churches being burned down?

she isn't saying this

rather I think she's asking the I Ching to give some insight as to what the over arching spiritual lesson is for humanity in these tragic events.

....because it reads that the 'wake up call' is for the black people, at least that is how I read it.



I wonder at the purpose of this thread given there are no churches being burned in the south.

 

[rosada]

That's not how I read it.
Perhaps Bliss will clarify her thinking for us.

 

[Trojina]

In fact lets look closer at the paragraph

Hi. I was talking to some people about the happenings in the states about the burning of churches in the south. Most people seem to think that the actions are a hate crime against black people, however I tend to think that perhaps it's a wake up call for people to look a little deeper, to expand their awareness, and to become more independent in thought about religion and spirituality. So I asked the I Ching, why are all of the churches being burned down?

46.3.5>29

I read it as saying that most people think the burning of churches in the south are hate crimes to black people...However Bliss doesn't think so, she says 'however'.... She thinks the reason for the crimes is that the black people need a 'wake up call' and is using her concept of spirituality to make out this is part of the higher good and there really is something for black people to learn from this.

There is no 'however'. If there ever are burning of black people's churches they are hate crimes not 'wake up calls'.

It's very odd but I wonder if this is just an effort to stir up controversy here ? Bliss did say she was known for creating controversy. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...-Why-do-the-audience-give-me-such-a-hard-time As there aren't any churches being burned down in the south then what's this thread about really ?


Can you provide any links to news stories about churches being burned down in the south Bliss ?

 

[Bliss5702]

Hello Bliss,

"I think it's tempting to make evaluations about an individual's life from a spiritual perspective when we cannot really know the complex variables at work regarding what that person is here to learn. In the same way, as I'm sure you'd agree, to understand the tragic events you mention, first and foremost, is to offer compassion and empathy to those that lost their lives since it's characterised by pain and suffering."

I agree. I am certainly accustomed to compassion and empathy. Every experience we have in this earth comes as a result to heighten our awareness or growth in some way, shape, form or fashion. This reading was not to look down on anyone but rather to have an understanding of why such events would be taking place.

"To bring up the idea that this was all due to the fact that people needed to look a little deeper and expand their awareness, while not conceptually unsound at one level, at this level...it's akin to members at a funeral saying: "If you'd been a bit more aware like me when you were living then we wouldn't have been lowering you into a grave right now!" Can't you see how high my moral ground is?"

I can't see anywhere where I have spoken of myself as being more aware than anyone, I personally feel that the events that are taking place on the earth has come as a result to make all of us more aware on a daily basis. We can't think that things just happen for no reason at all, right? I'm a firm believer to that idea that there's a purpose to everything in life.

"Hate crimes and spiritual growth are not mutually exclusive but certainly making judgements about the spiritual reasons for such events appears to be jumping the gun somewhat. Your notions of awareness expansion and "independence in thought" can only be highly subjective and drawn from assumptions that these victims needed their awareness expanding."

All the people of the earth are in need of an awareness expansion, myself included. Is not our purpose to having this earthly experience, to evolve? It's a never ending process that begins from the time of birth and continues until the day we make our exit.

"And how do you know that you are truly "awake"? : )"

An individual must have that knowing for themselves, however I will say that I've recognized very enlightened beings as I've continued my journey.

"Sometimes it can refer to making an assumption -- without, however, a clue as to whether the assumption is accurate!" And: "You are moving too fast."

What method of understanding do people use when trying to make sense of the happenings around them? Would a person of compassion ignore the happenings and not ask questions as to why they are taking place?

In other words, as your spiritual insight progresses perhaps this refers to not falling into assumptions regarding others' paths based on your own assimilated spiritual interpretations - something we are ALL prone to do - I know I am."

Regardless to whether I'm ascending in consciousness regarding the matter or if others around me are ascending, I'm happy for ascension, as the post was not just about others ascending in consciousness but rather about an ascension in consciousness for the whole, the collective, myself included. So I'll take that. As the energies of the earth begin to shift in frequencies, the people of the earth have no other choice but to follow suit. Is it possible for Mother Earth to begin the shift to higher levels of consciousness but allow the people that reside with her to continue in their complacency? Or would she be more prone to cause a shift in consciousness so that the people of the earth can vibe, flow and be conducive with the energy she's expressing? Thanks for your response.

 

[Bliss5702]

Trojan this is definitely not to stir up controversy. There has been in the last week 7 black churches burned down in the south. Google it and you will see for yourself. I don't make these things up. Thanks

 

[Bliss5702]

Please google the information before telling me that I'm lying about such sensitive information Pocossin. Just because you have not heard of it in your area does not mean that it's not happening. Thanks in advance for your Google search that will make you more aware of the topic.

 

[Bliss5702]

Thanks Rosada. Your answer was amazing. You were right. When such tragic happenings are taking place around, it's normal to ask the why's in order to get the answers and to become more enlightened. I didn't think that was a crime, that is until I started reading the answers to my reading.

 

[Bliss5702]

I tried posting link but was unsuccessful. All one must do however is Google. It's all over Google. Not only that but the fact that a young white guy went into a church, sat, prayed, and have service in the church before shooting and killing nine of its black members. I don't make this stuff. Why is there an attack on the church?

 

[Bliss5702]

Instead of you guys answering such a sensitive question, you immediately headed over here to gain up on and attack the seeker when the seeker ask questions because the seeker desires answers. Why all the violence on these people and their livelihoods? What role do we all play as the collective whole?

 

[Bliss5702]

Did the I Ching teach the people of this forum to be so harsh. Some of you guys are brutal. Immediately thinking the worst about a person who makes a post. Clouded judgement. Perhaps you should do an I Ching reading on me so that it will tell you all that I don't come to cause trouble. Geeesh

 

[hilary]

Bliss, I think if you hadn't written that 'however' in your first post you would have had a different response. Of course this is hate crime; these churches are not spontaneously combusting.

I understand that by asking 'why?' you are asking about a different kind of reason. But personally I think that if we want to consider our roles in this 'as the collective whole', we can't do that by leapfrogging the reality of racism. (And as a white European I'm about as unqualified to understand that as I could possibly be.)

I don't know what the reading is saying. I have a feeling it might be speaking only to you rather than addressing the question in the abstract, but I don't know.

 

[pocossin]

Please google the information before telling me that I'm lying about such sensitive information Pocossin. Just because you have not heard of it in your area does not mean that it's not happening. Thanks in advance for your Google search that will make you more aware of the topic.

Dear child, I did google before responding and read

http://searchthetime.blogspot.com/2011/05/christian-church-burnings-are-happening.html

http://www.amharicmovies.com/news/w...eorgia-to-ohio-are-burned-down-in-a-week.html

http://wncn.com/2015/06/28/fbi-investigating-string-of-church-fires-including-one-in-charlotte/

But I live here, and I know from direct experience unlike yourself. Nevertheless, you have done me a great deal of good. I now have a name for my personal condition -- correctomania: a compulsion to set things right. Because I deliver in the family florist business, I am often in Black churches. I do in them what I do everywhere else -- attempt to set things right. I pick up trash from the floor and pews, help the minister with his ceremonial robes, shake the doormats if they are dirty. Much to my frustration, one thing that I cannot set right is their amateur electrical wiring, which I think causes many Black church fires.

 

[Bliss5702]

So Pocossin if you googled before responding, why would you say that I was lying about the question? Did your Google search not show you thag there have been several church burning just in the last week?

 

[Bliss5702]

Pocossin, who told you that I didn't have a direct experience with any of this? How do you know where I'm located or the experiences I've had in this manner? Dies your delivering in the family florist business put you in a position to know more about this situation than myself?

 

[Bliss5702]

Hilary racism has been an issue in this country ever since I can remember. I have never been one to leapfrog it. As a matter of fact, I myself experience it. There's no doubt that racism exist in the current happenings. That doesn't mean that there is not a deeper meaning that the universe is trying to communicate.

 

[pocossin]

Pocossin, who told you that I didn't have a direct experience with any of this? How do you know where I'm located or the experiences I've had in this manner? Does your delivering in the family florist business put you in a position to know more about this situation than myself?

Absolutely. A vase of flower or a funeral arrangement is a universal passkey -- nearly. Assassins sometimes pose as florist personnel, and police and special agents are warned against the danger of accepting floral arrangements. I have delivered to the homes of agents who had no street address, and to the home of an officer, where I was instructed to leave it on the porch because no one would come to the door until I left. I have been in jails, courts, and secured corporation offices, not counting numerous private homes that I would not otherwise have entered, and I have respected their privacy and security. And, Yes, I am in a position to know what you cannot know unless you follow in my footsteps.

 

[Bliss5702]

Again, Pocossin, you don't know my experiences. Trust. I know first hand what it's like to be black in America and experience racism. You talk about all these things in an attempt to belittle my experience, but I wonder how many drug busts you have attended, or perhaps shoot outs, or perhaps dark streets with rape victims (self included) or maybe perhaps experiencing the deep darkness in the streets of the ghettos as the police drive by and cause havoc in our lives. I wonder if you know how it feels to be physically drug by a police officer for no reason other than pure hate, to witness the brutal death of a human life by a careless officer, to witness family members being beaten and bruised as they just make simple attempts to live. Have you ever experienced what it's like to be homeless, sleeping in your car, the hurt and pain felt as a result of a nation who don't care about your family members drowning as their city sinks underwater. Yeah, thank you guys for your responses. I have my answer. It is time for us to raise our level of awareness so that we can get ourselves out of the dumps of these hoods and ghettos that we (myself and others) live in. you guys have certainly prompted my remembrance of the brutal treatment that some of us have literally experienced. But that still doesn't mean that there is not an underlying reasoning for the encounters. I tend to believe that to everything in life, there's an underlying spiritual purpose. This helps me to not hate others for all the ugly earthly encounters I've had. Great day to you all.

 

[pocossin]

Again, Pocossin, you don't know my experiences. Trust. I know first hand what it's like to be black in America and experience racism.

I know my experiences. I paid for a Black neighbor to go to DC to care for her daughter who was thrown downstairs in an attempt to kill her -- like Herman Melville, I should add. Mother and daughter are now dead, but daughter thanked my sister for the care I showed her mother. After her brain aneurysm, I visited the mother in her nursing home and wiped away the saliva that dribbled from her mouth and told her what was happening around her home, whether she understood or not. So little you know of reality. I take care of friends. As for the police, of course you mean the 'white' police. Another black neighbor told me that whites were the only ones who ever treated her fairly. That is not a statement I asked for. Who has preyed on you? Or are you merely refering to the mindless politically-correct mass media?

Have you ever experienced what it's like to be homeless, sleeping in your car, the hurt and pain felt as a result of a nation who don't care about your family members drowning as their city sinks underwater.

No, but I have been close. I am frugal, and never spent my last dollar. You aren't going to believe this, but the nation is not resposible for the evil you put yourself into. If you haven't contemplated suicide, you do not know what borders life. You are a verbally competent person, and I think, competent in other ways. What were you doing homeless in a ghetto? Typically, indulgence causes degradation. A 9-to-5 may be oppressive to some, but start there and do better.

 

[sooo]

Line 3: Wu: He ascends into the vacant city.
Wing: You may now advance with complete ease -- perhaps too much ease. This sudden lack of constraint may cause you misgivings. A little caution is a good thing now if you do not allow it to halt your progress completely.
The vacant city? What would the vacant city be in reference to?

Hi Bliss (assuming you return and read this).

This is the most helpful rendering of line 3 I've ever read. Thank you for sharing it. It explains a great deal regarding my personal experience with it, about a year and a half ago, when shortly after receiving it, I had a knife pulled on me and was conned by the psychopath and thrown into county jail for a few days, while awaiting my case to be examined for the trumped up felony charges, which if found guilty, would lead to four years in prison. The DA found no evidence and so I was released without charges. I too have found the entire experience enlightening, though by no means pleasurable or justifiable. I've said to you before regarding your son, that the jail and prison system is a business - plain and simple.

I read your initial post without the slightest impression that you looked down on anyone as being less than yourself, but that, like myself at that time, felt that choosing an enlightening attitude beat the alternative, which would have been to generate hatred and resentment in my already weakened heart and bitterness in my soul.

I'm not, however, the least surprised at the judgmental responses you were met with, Rosada's post notwithstanding. It again proves that just because folks practice I Ching and interpret for others, does not mean one could expect a higher degree of understanding.

Again, thanks for sharing that line 3 wing. It really helped to fill some blanks for me. I once, before my incident, pointed out the potential danger lurking within line 3, in that an army could be waiting in ambush for you in that empty city, and was criticized for that association, even though 46.3 changes to 7. His argument for 7 is that it doesn't refer to a standing army but to a militia. Well, when a militia is active, they are a standing army: not plowing their fields but yielding weapons and employing brutal force. There is that dangerous connection with 46.3. It so happens that the guy that attacked and then accused me was a discharged Marine Sgt, and a PTSD patient, one sick soldier.

I support your interpretation of your reading completely.

Racism is on the rise in this country, once again, and I must add, our president seems to be doing his best to stoke those flames. It doesn't matter from which direction racism comes; the results are bad for everyone. As you may already be aware, nowhere is racism more prevalent than in our jails and prisons. In fact, I was surprised to learn that the showers were enforced to be completely segregated. If a black was showering, no whites were allowed to use the facility, and vice verse. Very enlightening, and I don't mean it in spiritual sense. Though I did a lot of meditating while in lock-up, as well. Had to do something, and it was more constructive than building a shank.

 

[hilary]

Hilary racism has been an issue in this country ever since I can remember. I have never been one to leapfrog it. As a matter of fact, I myself experience it. There's no doubt that racism exist in the current happenings. That doesn't mean that there is not a deeper meaning that the universe is trying to communicate.

I see what you mean. My concern would be that looking for 'deeper meaning' might seem to belittle the reality of racism. But as I said, I have no experience and nothing to qualify me to talk of such things.

 

[hilary]

By the way, this thread is teetering on the brink, and I'm as guilty as anyone of posting when I have nothing to say about the reading. Can we make any remaining discussion on this thread strictly about the reading, please? If you feel something here that isn't reading-related needs to be answered, please use private message or start a new thread in Moderation or Open Space.

 

[Hujambo]

Cleary seems not to be referenced in these pages very often (perhaps it's way off?), just hope it might add something to assist understanding... in a "without judgement" kind of way

46. Rising.
Rising is greatly developmental; it calls for seeing a great person, so there will be no grief. An expedition south brings good fortune.

A "great person" is a sage who has completed the great path. Great people develop themselves and develop others; everything they say has a reason. Like the wind getting into everything, they can open up people's knowledge and wisdom; like the earth nurturing everything, they can save people from calamities.

46.3 Rising in an empty domain. If one considers oneself wise and does not know to seek out teachers and companions, indulges in guesswork and speculation and rushes impulsively ahead, in desiring to go forward one will instead fall back; this is like ascending into an empty domain - how can one progress into the realm of high illumination? This is rising without knowledge to seek a teacher.

46.5 Rectitude brings good fortune. Climbing stairs.
Emptying the human mind and seeking the mind of Tao, when one empties the mind one can fill the belly. This is what is referred to by the saying that at the moment of restoration of potential it is like you always had it. The increase of virtue is as easy as climbing stairs. This is rising by flexibly opening the mind.

29. Mastering pitfalls.
Though near to reality by nature, people become estranged from it by habit - descending lower and lower by daily repetition of habit, they fall into a state of ignorant obstinacy and do not know how to stop. However if one practices evil one becomes evil; if one practices good one becomes good - it is simply a matter of how people habitually act.
and
Everyone has a part in the study of body and mind, essence and life. The goal is near at hand; one may mount the foundation of sagehood directly. It is just a matter of people being able to believe and practice. What happiness do people find in not practicing good?

Bliss, it hurt like a stab in the chest to read your opening paragraph. I immediately had to look within myself for the reason. Around me, every day, I feel I have to ward off this kind of sentiment. Put simply. I don't believe in no pain, no gain. I don't agree that undue suffering will necessarily assist people to learn and grow - until it's left behind. Not because I have any special understanding (quite the opposite) but everyone's pain affects me - it kind of joins up with my own pain. My sincere wish for the world is that we connect our collective joy together rather than our collective pain. That we aim for good at all times, practice it daily.

Peace be with you.

 

[Tim K]

My daily reading for today was 46.3, and I was wondering what did it mean the whole day.
Uneventful, rainy sleepy day. And here I see this emotional post which seems so negative to me. Accusations of lying ... wow. Ok ok I don't want to stir up more emotions.

Why are the churches being burned down? 46.3.5 → 29
Wilhelm:
46.3 One pushes up into an empty city.
The churches are unguarded, it's so easy to wreak havoc.
46.5 One pushes up in steps.
If this behaviour is not stopped, the conflict will escalate.
h29 signifies repetitive penetration of water through cracks and holes etc.

Richmond:
46.3 He ascends into a more spacious city.
When ascending energy reaches outer action there is no longer any doubt even in a doubting mind, for there it is for all to see.
Could be the pent-up emotions (of the 'enemies') and some attempt to call for public attention.
And again 46.5 warns that this will only get worse if this is allowed to continue.

Transitional hex is 7, the army, uh-oh.
Richmond:
7.5
Wild beasts in the field. There is advantage in catching them. No error. The elder leads the army and the younger carries corpses. Continuing brings misfortune.

A difficult situation arises as we become less aware that our intuition is not active so that our present reading of our situation is governed solely by rules we learned in the past.
I think this reinforces the idea of a hate crimes.


p.s. About 46.3, I did complete manually copying all the lines and comments from Nigel's book into data file for my Yi program. This fits the description of more spacious city. I could use this to re-master Nigel's book, which I'll definitely share with all of you.

 

[Hujambo]

Actually I should have just come right out and said my opinion as to what I think the reading means...the churches are being burned down because of unchecked evil.

 

[sooo]

By the way, this thread is teetering on the brink, and I'm as guilty as anyone of posting when I have nothing to say about the reading. Can we make any remaining discussion on this thread strictly about the reading, please? If you feel something here that isn't reading-related needs to be answered, please use private message or start a new thread in Moderation or Open Space.

For the record, since Bliss' reading may have pertained to how she was met here, as well as her original intention, my comments were on point to her reading. She was unjustifiably molested, and that's what I had described re 46.3.

I also lent support for her own interpretation. Though not the popular thing to do, it too was on point of her reading.

In fact, there's nothing in my post that did not relate to her reading, directly or indirectly. Furthermore, I was speaking directly to Bliss, not to anyone else.

 

[rosada]

I don't think she meant to single you out, Bruce. I think Hilary was just noticing that there had been a lot of slightly off topic comments piling up here to the point of toppling the whole thread.
Hmmm... Perhaps we're seeing some sort of performance art being created here of 46.2.5. Like just as threads referencing hexagram 44. seem to blow around forever "like a prince disseminating his commands to the four quarters of heaven," maybe the discussion happening here is the manifestation of "46. Small things being heaped up," and the 29.points to the Dangers that can happen when these small things are a collection of 46.5 not soberly thought out comments.

Maybe 46.2.5 - 29 warns about shooting guns off in church and shooting one's mouth off on the internet!

Hunh, maybe we ought to start a thread discussing world peace and prosperity. Maybe then we'd start manifesting that in our personal worlds.

Rosada