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moss elk

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Word of the day Chutzpah.
Pronounced hoot spa
Yiddish. (Means something like gall or audaciousness or brazenness)

It perfectly describes one quality of the astounding team of con men and fraudsters who sit today at the top the U.S. government.
 

Trojina

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Word of the day Chutzpah.
Pronounced hoot spa
Yiddish. (Means something like gall or audaciousness or brazenness)

It perfectly describes one quality of the astounding team of con men and fraudsters who sit today at the top the U.S. government.

I don't think it does describe the quality of the team of con men, not my understanding of the word any way.


Haven't looked it up but my understanding, in my life so far, was that it's a positive quality of character, having guts and drive and 'oomph' and character. It's a word I for some reason associate with Barbara Streisand as she was typically described as having 'chutzpah' and was Jewish I think.

There's no hint of deception or negativity in the word at least not in the way I've seen it used nor in the way I would understand it. Just the sound of the word is enough to give the idea, it's feisty, zesty, lively - nothing to do with being fraudulent.



Next word of the day. Prevaricate. For many years I used this word to mean not really wishing to get on with something, to avoid it or to put it off. Hilary told me I was using the wrong word because there is deception in prevarication. Actually I don't think I was far wrong. Of course politicians are masters of the art of prevarication and indeed it is a useful skill to have in life because no one wants the truth all the time.


Have you ever wondered how it would be to have to spend an entire week without telling any lies. There was an experiment on TV where people tried to do that and it was awful because we lie all the time and if we didn't things would be pretty awful.


Someone lent me a book then asked if I liked it. I think I prevaricated.
 

Trojina

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The game is to insert the word of the day into a selected Yi line or passage.

I challenge you to insert 'chutzpah' into a line commentary -


Prevarication is all 57 slimishness I feel, slipping away unseen
 

moss elk

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Ah, I have only ever seen Chutzpah with negative conotation.
What you describe sounds to me like Moxy or Spunk.


Chutzpah has connotations of clueless ballsy-ness coupled with arrogance & shamelessness.
It is usually said by someone with an angry shocked expression on their face.

He did what?! :eek: He robbed a bank, then tried to open an account there? The Chutzpah!
or
He stabbed you, then gave you a bill for his dry cleaning?! The Chutzpah!

So Moxy looks Admirable, Chutzpah looks Contemptible.
At least, that is how I know it.
Maybe a Jewish user can give a good example.
 
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moss elk

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The game is to insert the word of the day into a selected Yi line or passage.

I challenge you to insert 'chutzpah' into a line commentary -
Oh! Good game.


I'll try.
27.1-ish
WHAT?! :eek:
Forsaking your spirit tortoise?
and
Looking at me?! :eek: with hungry mouth hanging open?,
The Chutzpah!
(Including Mr Kong's commentary: Truly lacking a basis for respect)
 
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Trojina

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Ah, I have only ever seen Chutzpah with negative conotation.
What you describe sounds to me like Moxy or Spunk.


Chutzpah has connotations of clueless ballsy-ness coupled with arrogance & shamelessness.
It is usually said by someone with an angry shocked expression on their face.

He did what?! :eek: He robbed a bank, then tried to open an account there? The Chutzpah!
or
He stabbed you, then gave you a bill for his dry cleaning?! The Chutzpah!

So Moxy looks Admirable, Chutzpah looks Contemptible.
At least, that is how I know it.
Maybe a Jewish user can give a good example.


No no no no I must disagree, chutzpah is not contemptible. Simply Googling I find this definition

'The definition of chutzpah is a Yiddish word that refers to shameless boldness or almost-arrogant courage. When you go right up to the president of a company and tell him he needs to give you a job, this is an example of chutzpah.'

Another definition from from Collins English Dictionary

' If you say that someone has chutzpah, you mean that you admire the fact that they are not afraid or embarrassed to do or say things that shock, surprise, or annoy other people'

So chutzpah is an admirable quality if a slightly shocking one, I think it denotes sass. It would definitely be a quality I would aspire to because it means you don't waste time being modest and running yourself down, you go for what you what you want and if you get rejected then you get rejected but 'faint hearts never won fair maidens' and all that.


Oh hang on another definition in your favour says 'Often chutzpah carries a negative connotation of egotistical audacity or overconfidence in one's abilities'. Hmm better over confidence than under confidence IMO.

Anyway the line I would assign the word 'chutzpah to is 10.5

Hilary's translation

'Decisive treading.
Constancy, danger.'

BTW 'spunk' in UK most often refers to male semen.


So you go for 27.1 and I go for 10.5 for chutzpah. I guess the audience decides who gets the prize.


Next word is 'perspicacity', a word I would like to use but don't really know what it means as I only heard it in a song by Fleetwood Mac. Guessing I think it means - well a kind of acuity, a sharpness. Looking it up it means 'the quality of having a ready insight into things; shrewdness'.

I say 'perspicacity' is um well I'd say 30 but I'm feeling 56.5 for some reason. I guess it's a quality of intelligence and intelligence isn't depicted as such in Yi unless it is a quality of the 'noble one' as compared to the small people.


What would you give to perspicacity ?
 

moss elk

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In the U.S. Spunk or Spunky is like a fiesty but cute determination,
usually said of someone you admire.

Perspicacity?
I haven't thought it through very far,
but for some reason I am thinking of 29.
And the qualities of mind you need to navigate it.


Back to Chutzpah for a moment,
it's definitely a vice, not virtue:


From Etymology Online:
also hutzpah, 1892, from Yiddish khutspe"impudence, gall," from Hebrew hutspah. The classic definition is that given by Leo Rosten: "that quality enshrined in a man who, having killed his mother and father, throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan."

See it now?
(It's a special kind of madness)
 

Trojina

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Back to Chutzpah for a moment,
it's definitely a vice, not virtue:


From Etymology Online:
also hutzpah, 1892, from Yiddish khutspe"impudence, gall," from Hebrew hutspah. The classic definition is that given by Leo Rosten: "that quality enshrined in a man who, having killed his mother and father, throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan."

See it now?
(It's a special kind of madness)

I've just posted 2 definitions off Google from dictionaries


Another definition from Collins English Dictionary

' If you say that someone has chutzpah, you mean that you admire the fact that they are not afraid or embarrassed to do or say things that shock, surprise, or annoy other people'
'The definition of chutzpah is a Yiddish word that refers to shameless boldness or almost-arrogant courage. When you go right up to the president of a company and tell him he needs to give you a job, this is an example of chutzpah.'
...and more importantly I've heard how the word is used so no it isn't definitely simply a vice - I mean even the dictionary says that - I think it's a word that carries a number of connotations but certainly not all negative ones.


From Wikipedia



Chutzpah (/ˈhʊtspə, ˈxʊt-/)[1][2] is the quality of audacity, for good or for bad. The Yiddish word derives from the Hebrew word ḥutspâ (חֻצְפָּה), meaning "insolence", "cheek" or "audacity". Thus the original Yiddish word has a strongly negative connotation but the form which entered English through Ameridish has taken on a broader meaning, having been popularized through vernacular use in film, literature, and television. The word is sometimes interpreted—particularly in business parlance—as meaning the amount of courage, mettle or ardor that an individual has.[
and

chutzpah
/ˈxʊtspə,ˈhʊtspə/
nouninformal
noun: chutzpah
extreme self-confidence or audacity (usually used approvingly).
"love him or hate him, you have to admire Cohen's chutzpah"

Words evolve as they are used so it isn't possible to just state that chutzpah is negative when people now use it to denote positive qualities. If words become widely used in a certain way their meaning does evolve as explained in quote above.






In the U.S. Spunk or Spunky is like a fiesty but cute determination,
usually said of someone you admire.
I know, I think we use it like that occasionally


Perspicacity?
I haven't thought it through very far,
but for some reason I am thinking of 29.
And the qualities of mind you need to navigate it.

Yes I can see that
 

moss elk

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Ok, the mystery is solved.

Originally it had negative connotations. Bastardized, the meaning changed.

So, we are both correct.
I, the Originalist and you, the Modernist. :bows:

If you ever read me use it, imagine it sounding like a cough or curse word.
 

moss elk

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Another word to mull over:

Success.
Originally it meant "What comes after"
Like Succession.

Then it split into two completely different meanings.

Some people use it like Efficacy, others use it as Fame and Fortune/Wealth.

Here is someone writing about how the word degraded:

The moral flabbiness born of the bitch-goddess SUCCESS. That -- with the squalid interpretation put on the word success -- is our national disease. [William James to H.G. Wells, Sept. 11, 1906]
 

Trojina

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So, we are both correct.
I, the Originalist and you, the Modernist.

Well yes - one has to keep up with the evolution of language for example youngsters here and the not so young use the word 'sick' to mean 'good'. I don't know if they say that in the US. I think of a bucket of puke for sick and they think sick is good :confused: same as 'wicked' that means good too. :rolleyes:


I guess 'success' came from or was part of 'succeed' and 'succession'. I think of success as anything I succeed at. I succeeded in getting home today despite flooded roads hence I had success in my quest.


I automatically think of hexagram 55 for 'success' because it covers the old and the new meaning of 'success' even though 55 doesn't equate to 'success' there's a fullness about the word I relate to 55.

We don't have to be logical do we I mean I would definitely say 'flummoxed' was a 29 word.
 

Trojina

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I had never heard of the word 'limerence' before yesterday


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence

What a revelation and doesn't it show how our ways of thinking can be expanded by just having words for things. Seems to me until I found this word every kind of feeling of attachmnet was called 'love' to the point where the word was/is actually almost meaningless.


But now there's limerence and that just sheds a whole new light on things.


Well at least it gives an optional description of what is happening to one.


We've had these words and they tend to have judgment attached


'crush' has a juvenile association to it

'obsession' has a mad association to it



...can't think of other words for intense attraction/non stop thinking about someone at the moment but I never heard of 'limerence' before. Am I way out of touch ?



To think of a hexagram or line for that word, I have none, not yet, because I have not yet fully got my head around the meaning of that word, I need to think about it more.



It is funny how there are really no particular references to romantic or obsessive 'love in Yi though they are the most usual thing people start asking about. Of course love isn't specifically mentioned in Yi although the book is suffused with it, and, I believe, effuses it.
 

moss elk

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This guy wants to offer some new words for your consideration.

[video=youtube_share;MfOQBY5BrUA]https://youtu.be/MfOQBY5BrUA[/video]
 

Trojina

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I've heard some enterprising entrepreneurs have been able to ditch their day jobs by travelling the land selling Trump Toilet Paper with Trump's face on. My brother recently bought some from a street seller who travels the UK selling them in towns, tourist attractions and so on. I'm not sure if you term it 'toilet paper' in the US but it's the stuff you use after going to the lavatory to clean yourself. :D
 

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I hadn't heard of limerence - a much-needed word, I agree. I'd associate it with 45.3 -
'Now gathering, now lamenting.
No direction bears fruit.
Going on, no mistake.
Small shame.'
- not that the line exactly means that, only that people lost in limerence tend to receive it.

New word: brumal, meaning occurring in winter. No reason, I just like that it begins with 'br'.
 

Trojina

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There's an application form, I think Moss Elk has them

I hadn't heard of limerence - a much-needed word, I agree. I'd associate it with 45.3 -
'Now gathering, now lamenting.
No direction bears fruit.
Going on, no mistake.
Small shame.'
- not that the line exactly means that, only that people lost in limerence tend to receive it.

New word: brumal, meaning occurring in winter. No reason, I just like that it begins with 'br'.


I thought the word 'brumal' came from the painter Bruegel because of his famous winter scene paintings like this one

...but it doesn't it comes from Latin

I think 'limerance' is totally 31.3 which happens to be the fan yao of 45.3
 

Freedda

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Hey gang, just wondering, is the idea here to offer up interesting words and discuss them, or to also use them in the Yi, or discuss how they might be describing something in the Yi? Or ...?

Oh, and as a someone who grew up with the word Chutzpah, it is very much based on context, and often describes a sense of shock or awe about someone's actions, or that they have guts or 'balls.' It can be about something negative, but not always.

Someone might have chutzpah if they stole a police car from in front of a busy police station, or someone who stole second base when the pitcher was distracted, or a brazen street hustler who knows that everyone is on to him but keeps hawking his wears. It could describe someone who is deathly afraid of public speaking, but then volunteers to give their class' graduation speech.

Best, David.
 

moss elk

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Hey gang, just wondering, is the idea here to offer up interesting words and discuss them, or to also use them in the Yi, or discuss how they might be describing something in the Yi? Or ...?
My initial idea was to shine light on the gold-plated turd of a president.
But the conversation is interesting as evolves.
 

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