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Your experiences with Unchanging Castings, Hexagram 12

Trojina

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Well, in hindsight I think 12uc just isn't going anywhere very much :eek:

Hmmm well that's all I can say. It might feel like this :brickwall: until you stop.


Even trying to write of it I feel 'stopped'. That's my excuse anyway.
 

Trojina

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I thought about what to call hexagram 12 in the index and settled on 'Separating' from Brad's book. I feel this title is nearer than 'blocked' or 'standstill'.

My strongest experience of it I related here some time back. The truth is that issue, in a sense, I think is with me permanently, that's how it is and I operate within it.


I have the feeling, looking as we always do for an 'upside' that it's not alot of fun sharing hex 12 uc experiences, but it might be ?
 

charly

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I have the feeling, looking as we always do for an 'upside' that it's not alot of fun sharing hex 12 uc experiences, but it might be ?
Hi, Trojan:

Of course, OBSTRUCTION doesn't sound lucky, and looking at the judgement we find UNPROFITABLE FOR NOBLE YOUNGS. But are we noble?

For unchanging hexs I use to read all the lines looking for issues.

Issues from H.12 lines:
1) lucky, feast / celebration.
2) lucky, feast / celebration.
3) taking care of the ashamed
4) no wrong, happiness
5) lucky
6) happiness / delight​

Of course, I also read the judgement:
否之匪人
pi3 zhi1 fei3 ren2
STOP IT, BANDITS
Or, maybe, stop the bandits (1)

不利君子貞
bu4 li4 jun1 zi3 zhen1
UNPROFITABLE NOBLE YOUNGS OMEN
Noble Boys previsibly without profit (2)

大往小來
da4 wang3 xiao3 lai2
GREATS GO, LITTLES COME.
Tall men (3), go out.
Littles (children / babies) will come.


H.11 is the Hex. where Heaven and Earth have intercourse and all the people, beasts and plants are allowed to do the same. The SEASON OF SPRING.

H.12 is the Hex where Heaven and Earth stop intercourse. The Earth says NO (4) to Heaven and people, beasts and plants are commanded to do the same. The SEASON OF AUTUMN.

Maybe Heaven and Earth stop having intercourse, but life never stops.

And there are many issues in the lines compliant with this reading.


All the best,


Charly

_______________________
(1) Bandits, evil people, non-human, stangers, aliens, rebels, renegades, brigands, in the Changes use to be WIFE GRABBERS, say, men looking for women to f_ck.
(2) Are sons of aristocracy too different from bandits? Don't they also look for picking up girls?
(3) The character for big / great depicts a tall man with stretching arms and legs.
(4) pi, which depicts a root in the underground meaning NOT over a mouth meaning TO SAY.

Ch.
 

meng

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I don’t see 12 in a negative way at all. Sometimes I welcome it, sometimes it’s the only time I truly make a break from my concerns.

A visualization of the 11/12 process is that heaven joins with earth, and due to their individual natures, continue in their respective natural direction until they pass through their union (lower trigram moves upward through the upper trigram) and continue on their own individual trajectory, in 12. Not difficult to see this happening in relationships either. The attraction, the union, and they seem to pass through one another back to their individual being again.

Another visualization for 12 is the expanding universe. Individual objects throughout this universe are moving farther apart from one another. Some astrophysicists hypothesize that at some point, the universe will cease expanding and begin pulling back together, until it again compresses into subatomic size, and then the Big Bang will occur again. KaBoom, and then all things are technically in a state of 12, again. Interestingly, this reflects ancient Hindu belief of universe rebirth.
 

hilary

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I had 3 unchanging 12s in rapid succession at the end of 2011. Let's see...

'What if I don't leave the [place I volunteer]?'

Background: the day centre for the elderly where I'd volunteered for a decade had merged a couple of years previously into a much bigger, more professional operation. The new place seemed to me to make The Rules way more important than the people. And as a mere volunteer, there was nothing I could do to change the culture. I'd realised that this helplessness was really getting me down. But then again - there were people there I loved, and I had been doing this work every Tuesday for a dozen years now. What if I stayed on?

12 unchanging.

Next one, within days:
'How does my work need to change in response to this burnout?'

Background: burnout. Huge problems mustering enough energy to do anything at all. I still loved the work, it was just getting inexplicably harder and harder to do it.

12 unchanging.

A few days later I was back again, with
"I have these readings about not managing to stop (52) and change direction - but don't know what to aim for. What am I aiming for? What would be a picture of me getting it [ie working life] right?"

12 unchanging.

I got the message and stopped doing readings - and at the time I had no idea if I'd ever be able to resume them.



It all leaves me thinking that 12 unchanging is just 12 squared: no, stop, this is not working in any way, no, there isn't a way to make it work, no, you cannot find an ingenious way through this wall by banging your head against it some more, stop.

Which doesn't actually contradict what meng says - that it can be the only way to make a break.

I left the rules-first place, had a while without voluntary work at all. Then I found myself wanting to get started again after a few months, and went back to the fantastic people at the local Volunteer Link-Up, who helped me connect up with a fantastic woman of 91 who needs some help getting the shopping, and with the Stroke Club, which is a tiny place that's all about how people can help people. Love it.

Readings-wise, you know roughly how it went: none, for a long time. Then feeling drawn back to it - starting to want to offer people readings as I was listening to them. And then recreating the whole thing.
 

Trojina

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The thread on hexagram 11 unchanging in particular the example of bindweed and unstoppable, full taps on, life flow taking you where it will helped me get a better idea of it's opposite here in hexagram 12 unchanging.

In hex 11 uc you can't turn the life taps off and in hex 12 uc you can't turn em on, even with a spanner.

In plant terms if hex 11 unchanging is bindweed growing up through concrete to the most unlikley place, the life flow that will flow and cannot be stopped then 12 the equal and opposite in plant terms would be, um well I was going to say that which is disintegrating, not cohesively engaged but that is too near hex 18...oh well

hex 11 flow on
hex 12 flow off
 

yamabushi

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My experience with hexagram 12 is that it is just something what has to be done.
If my english is good enough :eek:
It is not stop, it is not negation, it is a wall that you have to take action to overcome it...
 

rodaki

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It all leaves me thinking that 12 unchanging is just 12 squared: no, stop, this is not working in any way, no, there isn't a way to make it work, no, you cannot find an ingenious way through this wall by banging your head against it some more, stop.


yes, exactly! that's just how it has felt for me too . .
I recently had a straight 12 when asking about some changes that - I hoped - were on their way, and, tbh, that answer was even a little too clear for comfort, even though I won't know for quite some time how things will pan out for real. 12 is not much of a comforting or encouraging answer, depending of course on time frames too; sometimes some off time is good, other times it feels heavy and stale

and LOL about that cat clip T, I loved it.

I don't think there is a way out of 12, only instructions about surviving it
 

charly

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hmmm but are you really going anywhere
thats what this cat failed to ask after he received hexagram 12 uc
Hi, Trojan:

I don't know we, but the She-Cat was going precisely into the POT.
Maybe she was more fond of MEDITATION than of casting coins. But she knew how to get out of the pot.

She liked to play in a pot. Trouble was she got fat as she got older but still likes to try and get in the pot... She often sits quite happily in there for a few minutes before she gets out on her own.

Maybe the time of PI, as a time of stand-by, be a good opportunity for MEDITATION without any fear of being closed in a dead way. A time of inner growth with relative peace.

Meditate Like A Cat

Amazing new meditation that uses actual recordings of cats purring to stimulate brainwave patterns of peace and tranquility.

Hear me purr in this music meditation now.

Source: http://www.wizardnow.com/muze/catmeditate.html

Yours,


Charly
 

tuckchang

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I had 3 unchanging 12s in rapid succession at the end of 2011. Let's see...

I personally have no experience with hex 12 but I think Hilary’s experience quite fit to its text:

Pi has no human norm; it is not advantageous (or not appropriate) for the gentleman to persist (in carrying out his aspirations); the big one has gone, while the small one comes (which means separation).

Regards
Tuck
www.iching123.com
 

Trojina

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Hi, Trojan:


Maybe the time of PI, as a time of stand-by, be a good opportunity for MEDITATION without any fear of being closed in a dead way. A time of inner growth with relative peace.


Yours,

Charly

Maybe.

Can you remember any occasions where you cast hexagram 12 unchanging and how that personally felt to you and how it turned out for you ? Have you ever cast hexagram 12 unchanging as an answer ?


I think from what I heard of other's experience and my own hexagram 12 unchanging can look very much like a 'No' . That 'No' may throw you back on yourself and so possibly give rise to reflection and meditation...just as a dead end in the road makes you stop and think *Oh...can't go no further down this path so....."


Of course one can receive hex 12 unchanging when it is not possible exactly to just stop . For example I recall receiving it some time ago with regard to relationship with a family member. That relationship could not just stop and so I think in those instances one has to just accept it is not really possible to connect meaningfully at the time.


Acceptance of 'no' is a big part of 12uc isn't it. One has no choice and it is possible to be at peace with that I think.


But nothing stays the same....and so.....:)
 

anemos

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there is an interesting 'saying NO' part in this video and the flow of energies in 12 and 11 and the cycles of 11-12-11-12...

he asked obedience and she said no and they departed each other. Her description of this moment, the blocked energies and the outlet they look to be released, if taken as a metaphor sounds very 12 to me. The field of 12 doesn't lack energy, imo. Is as energy-full as 11 like the experiments with the magnets we use to do in school. The energy of 12 feels like when we bring close the same pole of two magnets.
 

EP Coach

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Greetings Hilary

My deep appreciation to this wonderful learning community you have created.

I am a new member. Thank you for giving me a space.

Regarding your reading, IMHO, I share my views

If 4 readings are made ...

a) What happen, if I don't leave the [place I volunteer]?'

12 unchanging.

b) What NOT happen, if I don't leave the [place I volunteer]?'

12 unchanging.

c) What happen, if I leave the [place I volunteer]?'

12 unchanging.

d) What NOT happen, if I leave the [place I volunteer]?'

12 unchanging.

This may point to our own Core-Belief which is 12 unchanging.

The above is NLP Cartesian Questions, together with I-Ching
to help raise our Consciousness.

Regards

Andrew - EP Coach
 

andrea

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I've had it a couple of times when communication was simply impossible: someone else's phone left behind, my own phone out of power.
 

knotxx

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I had 12uc most vividly when my husband and I had had an awful fight and were in separate rooms behind shut doors. I don't quite remember whether I asked what I could do or just "what is happening" --either way, the 12uc was a perfect picture of the two of us just then, our Small People in full charge. (We did make up later that night!)

Also got it once about an editor who was not responding to my emails, for ages, but in her own time she did.

Have OFTEN got it in that sense hilary describes "should I do this?" NO. And the "no" most often seems to come in a context where I'm suggesting fixes and extra jobs and it turns out the right thing to do is just stop, stop, stop.
 

Trojina

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Not long ago I asked how something I'd done would be received. I got 12uc. Well it wasn't received at all. No response because it was never even circulated. We had to do a particular exercise in my writing group and I was worried some might be offended by it. As I say I needn't have worried because the timetabling got so chaotic none of us really got to read any of the others work anyway. No reception. No exchange. I didn't get to read theirs and they didn't get to read mine.
 

luciliuz

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My experience with hexagram 12 is that it is just something what has to be done.
If my english is good enough :eek:
It is not stop, it is not negation, it is a wall that you have to take action to overcome it...

i'm having a problem with some guests - I run a b&b - the House is perfect but there's a little noise because of a woodworm inside the roofbeams.. they re overreact, arrogantly, talking about not paying and maybe leave,
despite my attempts to solve things calling the carpenter for a treatment.
asking the Ching how to deal with them I've got 12 uc.
I think in this contest I agree with Yamabushi, I have to take action, do what I can, don't feel threatened
 

luciliuz

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.. by their arrogance, firmly climb the wall of the problem.. as much I can do.
 

Trojina

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i'm having a problem with some guests - I run a b&b - the House is perfect but there's a little noise because of a woodworm inside the roofbeams.. they re overreact, arrogantly, talking about not paying and maybe leave,
despite my attempts to solve things calling the carpenter for a treatment.
asking the Ching how to deal with them I've got 12 uc.
I think in this contest I agree with Yamabushi, I have to take action, do what I can, don't feel threatened

Woodworm make a noise ?



When you say 'contest' did you mean 'context' or did you mean your actual contest between you and these people ?

I think it's open to interpretation how to take 12 here. You could also say to them 'okay don't pay'. It isn't a time where being true to what is true has much impact so on the one hand you might take 12 here as not putting more energy into this. OTOH here yes it could be the end of you trying to be nice and reasonable, it isn't going to work, and take action to look after your own interests.
 

luciliuz

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Woodworm make a noise ?



When you say 'contest' did you mean 'context' or did you mean your actual contest between you and these people ?

I think it's open to interpretation how to take 12 here. You could also say to them 'okay don't pay'. It isn't a time where being true to what is true has much impact so on the one hand you might take 12 here as not putting more energy into this. OTOH here yes it could be the end of you trying to be nice and reasonable, it isn't going to work, and take action to look after your own interests.

sorry, I meant 'context', also if their complain was a bit aggressive.. and yes, woodworms make a noise,
a 'cra cra', eating the wood inside the wood beams! They said they couldn't sleep, but nobody said the same in the last weeks, I know it's there, but normally people laugh about it calling him the house pet:)
By the way my wood carpenter made a treatment last month 'cause I knew it was there, it didn't work and now he'll try with other options..
but thanks for your interpretation, it looks a tense situation in some way,
I hope they'll understand and don't make too much 'noise', not more than the woodworm!
 

luciliuz

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update

Little update:
I canceled my vacation to stay here the 2 weeks my guests rented the house, and solve the woodworm problem, the woodworkers came, they made a big intervention, they solved it, after that I ovviously cleant the flat as new, but my guests were still disappointed, I offered them some money back for the inconvenience ( let's say it was really a little noise in a very beautiful ancient house, it happens),
still they've been really intransigent and annoyed... I offered them to help to find another place,
in the end they choosed to stay.

Today they left and I found a big damage in the pavement (parquet), that looks a kind of revenge.
What I can do is to give them a bad review - feedback on internet, they came through airbnb,
except that I accept the fact I've been unlucky meeting very rude people.

said that, today asking about all the story I've got 49 unchanging... hope it means it's over..
ciao,
Lucia
 

veavea

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I had 12uc today when I feel a bit stuck, I finished a proposal I was working on for weeks and sent it to my agent... waiting for her reply and not sure what else to do in the meantime. Bit worn out after working on the proposal for so long. Overall I feel very lacklustre and sluggish... however I also realise now that I am very dehydrated and haven't drunk water today, just a couple of cups of dehydrating caffeine-rich tea. Which also feels like 12uc - my body is too gummed up and dehydrated to operate properly! Think I'll go and drink some water ;)

UPDATE: 2 hours later, drank water, went outside, did some gardening, feel a lot better, less 12uc :)
 
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galatea11

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Several months ago I was awaiting some documents which were late to arrive. I received 12UC about the matter and worried that the situation was at a complete standstill or may never be resolved in my favor. Instead I later learned that the person responsible for sending the documents had an incorrect email address for me. There was a standstill but just a temporary one and eventually I received the documents and closed the whole transaction successfully.
 

Trojina

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Thanks that's an interesting quite concrete manifestation of 12uc isn't it. Elements/energies moving away from each other rather than mingling/working/flowing/cooperating as in 11. In having a wrong email address flow is stopped or diverted away from the flow or direction of life where it can propagate/yield fruit/make things happen.

Recently I almost put water in my car's brake fluid mistakenly thinking it was the overflow for the radiator. That would not have been good, water and brake fluid do not mix, they aren't going to take part in the movement and flow of the car. I didn't cast 12 about this but your example made me think of it.
 

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