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Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 58

Trojina

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Those of a squeamish disposition may need to look away now.

My standout memory of a 58uc cast, stands out because it was so very reassuring at the time and I was very clear about it. I was due to have a gastroscopy. That is small tube with a camera on the end was to be passed from my throat to my stomach to investigate if there were a problem. I found the idea somewhat horrific. I was having recollections of seeing films where the suffragettes were force fed by tube in prison. I had the idea I'd be pinned down with this rubber tube shoved down my throat. :eek: Can't recall the exact question but the evening before I asked Yi for help and advice and got 58uc. I opened one of Karcher's books and my eye went straight to the word 'open' (which he gives as an optional hexagram title) and I understood. I felt my throat would be open. This wasn't an answer where I pored over the text, I just knew straight away 58uc was a perfect picture of an open throat. Nothing closed, clenched, tight in that answer.

I gag quite easily so thought I may need the optional local anaesthetic, however they just used a numbing spray....and the procedure was done quite easily. However not only was the procedure done quite easily, I came away from it with the sense I'd had a pleasant exchange ! I was treated with such gentle kindness and care it was almost a pleasure ! I must have been blessed with very good staff that day because they knew exactly what to do to make me forget I was having a tube inserted from my nose to stomach. As I went into the room one nurse was cracking jokes to me....actually appearing to enjoy themselves, acting very relaxed and while I was having it done the other one held my head and chatted softly to me about how well I was doing and explaining exactly what was happening at every step.


Wilhelm writes in the Judgement on 58

Under certain conditions, intimidation without gentleness may achieve something momentarily, but not for all time. When, on the other hand, the hearts of men are won by friendliness, they are led to take all hardships upon themselves willingly, and if need be will not shun death itself, so great is the power of joy over men.
It is true. Joy in exchange can make hard things seem much less hard.


I remember aged 6 being wheeled off on a trolley to have my tonsils out. I'd just had the meds to make me go under, lose consciousness, but I was still awake whilst being wheeled off down the long corridors to meet my fate. One of the medics decided to ask me all about what I'd had for Christmas and I forgot about everything except giving him the full lowdown on each item...."I had this then I had this, then I, then I .thennnn......."....:zzz: I can still remember that faint frustration I had at being unable to finish my sentence......

It's the same thing...it works for me every time I have an injection or anything. As long as someone keep me chatting in a congenial manner I don't notice the pain....well not so much. Wilhelm said the power of joy, of exchange, is so great it even makes death less daunting. I wouldn't know about that.

Recently a nurse told me she always takes note of something about a person when they come on the ward so that when she gives injections and so on she has something personal to chat to them about to take their mind off what she's doing.

So it seems to me 58uc, double lake, is boisterous, strengthening, as if the energy bounces around and makes things feel lighter. It is another kind of penetration. 57 uc subtle, underground, pervasive. 58uc, out there, open, bouncing


:bounce:


So my gastroscopy example was both very literal as my throat stayed open...but my throat surely stayed open and relaxed more because of the laughter and convivial atmosphere in the hospital unit. I realise it's quite deliberate because if patients are tense it will take them a lot longer to get the job done.


Moving on....those of a squeamish disposition can return...I recently asked about some work a friend and I are undertaking together. I guess I asked basically about the validity of it. I got 58uc. Well what I notice is each time I see this friend we speak and laugh pretty much non stop. It's as if there's an overflow....so much to exchange it's hard to stop exchanging when we need to be quiet to do the work. Yet even in quietness there is exchange. I will see how that one pans out but that's what I notice for now.


Wing writes for 58uc

The trigram, TUI, openness and pleasure, is repeated and shared in the realms of cosmic ideals and human affairs. The unchanging hexagram bodes a continuing success, which is dependent on your relations with others. Keep this in mind, particularly in regard to the object of your inquiry. Your goals can come to fruition in an atmosphere of gentleness and goodwill toward others. Difficulties will arise now if your endeavours are toward the self sufficient.

Although 58 can feel boisterous it is also gentle. Of course people can get hooked on fun so I wonder if there are occasions when too much exchange interferes with purpose ? Like when you can't stop talking to your best buddy at school and get into trouble....I imagine that would show up more in the lines. I feel 58uc is pretty uncomplicated.

Any experiences of 58 ? Please share.
 

Olga Super Star

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A few weeks ago I asked: What do I need to learn from the long painful experience with the director? 58 unchanging.

I took it as "communication" but also "have fun"
 

hilary

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I remember one 58uc from very early on. I'd asked about the outcome of some Middle East peace talks (not a question I would ask now). I don't remember the details of what happened, but I suppose we can look at the situation now and get the gist of the reading. 'Outcome of the talks? Talk.' Not at all bad - mutual Opening surely sorely needed - but also limited. A very plain-and-simple sort of unchanging answer.
 

Trojina

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So far 58uc is looking stunningly simple then...although I'm not sure about Olga's answer.

The shadow hexagram of 58 is 7.

http://www.invisibletouch.co.uk/iChing/default.asp?txtQ=Enter+the+text+of+your+original+question+and+select+the+lines+below.&Line6=1&Line5=8&Line4=8&Line3=1&Line2=8&Line1=8&txtFrmState=2

So when we cast 58 the approach NOT to take is that of 7.


So we wouldn't be doing stuff like focusing, organising, campaigning......It's an interesting shadow hexagram to get in the light of Hilary's question about peace talks.
 

hilary

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That's a good shadow to look at. 7 is single-pointed focus: it's about attaining the goal, and everything else is second to that. A truly lousy mentality to bring into negotiations.
 

Pearlescent

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My boyfriend was very afraid last year that he had a form on cancer on his lip where his cigarettes rest when he is smoking. There was an unusual sort of bump there and it concerned him a lot. I saw he had written in my iching journal, is this thing on my lip cancer? to which the Yi responded 58 uc. After a visit to the doctor it turned out to be some kind of burst blood vessel or 'venus pool' or something, I forget, but it is very benign and the only real problem with it is that if you stare hard enough it's cosmetically undesirable. Apparently he and the doctor had a good talk about it and he seemed quite relieved after the visit :)
 

hilary

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My boyfriend was very afraid last year that he had a form on cancer on his lip where his cigarettes rest when he is smoking. There was an unusual sort of bump there and it concerned him a lot. I saw he had written in my iching journal, is this thing on my lip cancer? to which the Yi responded 58 uc. After a visit to the doctor it turned out to be some kind of burst blood vessel or 'venus pool' or something, I forget, but it is very benign and the only real problem with it is that if you stare hard enough it's cosmetically undesirable. Apparently he and the doctor had a good talk about it and he seemed quite relieved after the visit :)
As well as 'talk to the doctor about it, don't just worry on your own', this also reminds me of what Harmen says about dui - that it's the 'salient', a military formation to breach and open up enemy lines. That sounds like a burst or dilated blood vessel.

But it's more direct than that! A bit of Googling reveals that this condition is known as 'venous pooling' or a 'venous lake'.
 
B

butterfly spider

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I suddenly had a thought of my mother - am lying in bed talking to myself as I do - to the person at the end of my bed. Describing her - resembling a cow with long horns got me
Thinking about the whole scenario. I won't bore you but she is at her best utterly unhelpful both emotionally and practically. Her behaviour borders on malevolent. This is such a pity - not just for me but for my children
I have just recovered from an operation and whilst it was fairly routine still is scarey and just a small hope your Ok would have been nice. She commented that if anything were to happen to me then I should know that she was leaving everything in her will to my brother. Is she cruel unwell or just plain ignorant. I don't know..

Anyway I was wondering how to progress - hospitals and operations give one a sense of urgency to live life I think. Not to waste what time there is on the things that clog is up and are not helpful. The venom and hate that my mother holds must have come from somewhere - she can't
Be all bad - I remember her as being so lovely when I was a young child.

I asked how I should progress - should I try once more to go and give her a hug. just now I got hex 58UC - openness.

I think that having read through this
Thread I will try and open up communication. Even if she again decides to decline any offers of visits or does not answer the phone at least on some level - even unseen - there is a line of energy and openness exchanging love - at least I hope so

Thank you IC just what I needed!!
 

Olga Super Star

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7 is single-pointed focus: it's about attaining the goal, and everything else is second to that
that was my attitude with the director - single-pointed focus
So it's saying I shouldn't have focused on that alone. Maybe it's saying that with acting you shouldn't focus on anything alone, but leave doors open
 

mulberry

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I received 58 unchanging when I was deliberating whether or not to start working with a business (I had to choose between them and another). I asked what would come of going with A., and took 58 unchanging as a good sign. And it was! Because I adore them. I feel very comfortable with them, and we talk, talk, talk-- we all crack each other up and meetings feel very informal and cozy. All that said, they aren't particularly good at the business side of things, and are verrrry slow to pay. 58 unchanging!
 

Tim K

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58, Daniels: Interact openly. Be cheerful and encouraging.

A few days ago I saw some Murcott mandarins being sold at the market. They did appear in some stores a few weeks before, but then a new shipment came in of unripe mandarins from Turkey - ugh. Now all the shops sell only them.

So I thought about buying them, worrying that they may not be in the best shape now. And the feature of markets in Moscow is that they just buy the same stuff as super-markets and big stores do (I'm talking about fruits of course, the majority of them is imported), and then sell it even when the produce is not so fresh anymore, but the price also goes down. They have a lag period so to speak. And also the people who sell them can be very mean (majority are immigrants from USSR countries, can't even speak Russian very well).

"I'm thinking about buying murcotts at the market, are they good?" 58.0.
Had a great walk to the market through forest/park area, the afternoon sunlight was yellow and mellow :)
Found my murcotts, the price was still the same, they looked and felt ok.
Of course they were labelled as 'Abkhazia mandarin' but I know better :) The boxes at the big stores were labelled 'Argentina, Lot xxxx, Murcott mandarin'. Real Abkhazian mandarins were lying next to them, and somehow were sold at double price. How come ? Argentina is surely far away from Russia, while Abkhazia is our neighbor and mandarins are in season.

I was allowed to pick and choose to my heart's content. Not every vendor allows that, they try to quickly shove the stuff into plastic bag (very often you get a couple of surprise items (squashed or bruised or clearly 'old-almost-dried') ).
While I was picking the woman got it that I want only orange-colored ones (yellow with green patches are not juicy and almost bland), and so she helped me by finding good ones from the storage box she had underneath the stall. And she didn't put them into bag, instead she handed each one to me so I can approve or discard! How nice!

Got my 6kg of murcotts, she was very happy and said thank you a couple of times :)
Came home, made the orange and mandarin juice - awesome :)
 

becalm

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I had unchanging 58 when all my efforts to get some important papers seemed to be thwarted so I asked how CAN I get these papers.For me it turned out to continue to communicate using a third party, although I had tried that more than once, the last time I tried it things came to fruition!!
 

EmMacha

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My experiences of hexagram 58 uc usually mean a day, or situations of Constant ongoing joyous interacting
I see it now as a process, and a reminder of that... there'll be conversations, interactions, constant flow with many people...
And you'll heal situations, families, groups, or find solutions, or rather, peace of mind about things, through constant interaction.

No one specific example, really; often I get it after a few heavy days, when things feel very problematic... then I get this cast, and so many worries just "pooof" away, pop, gone, and things flow quite easily.

Usually, it's a cast that causes me to go, 'oh ok' and get on with stuff... i find myself then chatting to friends, kids friends, being in the middle of all sorts of conversations.
There's a lightness, an ease of flow, a lifting up or bubbling forth with this cast for me.

It has also come up in relation to kids, and other people, like official school stuff etc... and it means tai me then:
keep up open interactions and conversation, be available, be open, keep the flow flowing
 

marybluesky

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I asked if a certain feast will be held & got 58 uc. The hexagram is about opening, joy, communication, cheerful exchange. So I considered it a Yes; and not only the party was held but I was invited to it & enjoyed a lot. I also talked with one of the managers I rarely meet, where I mentioned how I came to understand the advice he gave me a few years ago & practically started to follow it; a conversation that made both of us happy & more intimate.
An example of an unchanging hexagram indicating a positive answer to a Yes/No question while it is sometimes said that they always mean No.
 

Trojina

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An example of an unchanging hexagram indicating a positive answer to a Yes/No question while it is sometimes said that they always mean No
It's ridiculous to say unchanging hexagrams always mean 'no' or always mean 'yes'. I mean if one asks a yes/no question answers will or can boil down to a yes or no, I think I gave my own example in the original post. But that really doesn't mean that is all there is. If that was all someone wanted a simple yes or no they could toss a coin. 58 is your answer with all there is in it but there is no benefit ever in trying to turn it into 'always no' or 'always yes'. If that is someone's own experience then they can say 'in my own experience 58uc is no' but to say in general as if fact '58uc means no' is absurd.

If you ask a yes/no question any answer with lines or without might for you boil down to a yes or a no, taking into account the whole answer of course, so there always will be more than yes/no anyway.
 

ZeroPoint

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I asked Yi what would be so if my current state of friendlessness continued. I'm married, but empty nest syndrome, a difficult new work, and a lifelong pattern of limited-duration friendships makes me wonder what's wrong with me. I outgrow people, or they outgrow me. I can't believe in the faith I grew up in anymore; I need to replace the tradition with another practice. I've always felt a Presence, and church amplified it; but it gets me into trouble. (Often as a result of speaking up or out about something I'm personally involved in, leading, or learning.)

58 uc, the open throat, seems to suggest I reach out. I'm not self-sufficient, I know. The new job requires that behavior that's always gotten me into trouble, and I have very divided feelings about it. It feels as if I should continue anyway, uncomfortable though it is.
 

Trojina

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I asked Yi what would be so if my current state of friendlessness continued. I'm married, but empty nest syndrome, a difficult new work, and a lifelong pattern of limited-duration friendships makes me wonder what's wrong with me. I outgrow people, or they outgrow me.
There's nothing wrong with you, it happens to most people I think. Happens to me anyway.


I can't believe in the faith I grew up in anymore; I need to replace the tradition with another practice. I've always felt a Presence, and church amplified it; but it gets me into trouble. (Often as a result of speaking up or out about something I'm personally involved in, leading, or learning.)

58 uc, the open throat, seems to suggest I reach out. I'm not self-sufficient, I know. The new job requires that behavior that's always gotten me into trouble, and I have very divided feelings about it. It feels as if I should continue anyway, uncomfortable though it is.
58uc don't worry :) keep sharing, keep being open, take opportunities to talk to people regardless of whether they are in 'friend' bracket or not, because it will lighten your mood and things will seem less hard. I think this is very much a 'don't worry' kind of answer. Singing would be good for you, with others or alone, just singing opens the throat which they say also opens the heart.
 

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