Hello,
just came to mind that when one has asked a lot questions on the same subject and thus gotten confused, would it be well advised to simply ask :
I am confused. I have asked too much. Which of these casts would be the one to go with concerning the issue?
Wondering if the answer gotten that way could be taken as the valid, ruling one (of course, it does not have to come out exactly as one of the previous casts repeating)?
Ty, d.

The Yijing itself tries to tell it's readers that asking many questions is disrespectful and that disrespect deserves no information at all.

The real problem with receiving nothing at all is then there's still this new reading to make sense of, which will confuse and muddy the water even more. Exactly when does that happen? At what point does the Yi say, enough, see ya?

dragona said:

Hello,
just came to mind that when one has asked a lot questions on the same subject and thus gotten confused, would it be well advised to simply ask :
I am confused. I have asked too much. Which of these casts would be the one to go with concerning the issue?
Wondering if the answer gotten that way could be taken as the valid, ruling one (of course, it does not have to come out exactly as one of the previous casts repeating)?
Ty, d.

Click to expand...

this was discussed here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=15198 not so long ago.

I mean as the thread goes on the issue is discussed ....how Yi might not answer and how you might recognise it not answering


I'm too lazy to re write what I think when I said what I think on that thread recently

I thought getting an answer I cannot connect with and it is just very optimistic in a non-concrete sort of a way for asking about something one would ask every now and then is a different thing from asking in a nervous frenzy, realizing that answers are just getting worse and stopping on the ball by trying to relate this realization to the Yi (as many say they are having a conversation with the Oracle), by asking which of all those answers could be the one to go by, perhaps getting back to the first one would be a different thing. Perhaps it is the same.

I always suggest going by the first answer, which is likely to be answering the question (if it's answerable at all) directly.

When posting several questions, a single story unfolds or emerges in detail, putting questions and answers together. However, I agree, I'll typically focus on the first Q&A, though have to say, it's not always easy to convince the subject to return to that first Q&A, as they are often still tossing coins to get an answer they understand. Trying to bring them back to the core Q&A is sometimes impossible, as they're on reading #5 with #6 soon coming.

If I could offer but one tiny bit of advice for those who struggle with finding understandable answers, it would simply be to slow down. Allow time to do what it does.

meng said:

Trying to bring them back to the core Q&A is sometimes impossible, as they're on reading #5 with #6 soon coming.

If I could offer but one tiny bit of advice for those who struggle with finding understandable answers, it would simply be to slow down. Allow time to do what it does.

Click to expand...

Kinda how I feel lately, I haven`t reached the last line so I find it hard to understand or have faith.
Sometimes helps to ask for an insight or an advice again, if I don`t understand the first reading well.

In that sense, I put this question here, when you have lost it, how you go back to sensible again?:bag:
Full Mooon got to me the other day; then I slept on it and got an reading in a dream (found latter on it was an old one repeated, hm) and then asked 3 very concrete questions; answers seemed pretty apt to the situation.
How much Yi is the mirror of our emotional state, i wonder now....but wonder is what I do

dragona said:

How much Yi is the mirror of our emotional state

Click to expand...

Good question. I think a lot of our questions come from a not perfectly tuned mind or emotional state. If that's where the problem (in the question) is coming from, that would mostly likely be where the answer is directed to. I think this is what Yi means in 41.4 by decreasing our faults (to bring about increase).

meng said:

I think this is what Yi means in 41.4 by decreasing our faults (to bring about increase).

Click to expand...

And I think 41.5 is saying: I have told you before this will end up well, anyway it goes.
Less you expect, more you will get.
A bit cynical, since I don`t want to expect anything at all now, it would have to be a gigantic gesture to put me back in a good mood. (It feels darn great to walk around all offended like, now I think I get "the other side of the coin".)
Will see if 41.5 is THAT auspicious. Or won`t.

An observation only, on emotional state issue...when I have decided to cool it and let go, casts gotten a bit more..shall we say promising?
Not sure what to make out of it.

I've also had that experience (and seen it happen for others): asking what logically is the 'same' question but from a different mindset, and seeing the answer change. All I can say is that Yi answers the whole thing: the question, the spirit of the question, the position/ direction/ true intention/ momentum of the person behind the question. We perceive this as lots of different elements (or don't perceive the half of them, as the case may be), but that's just us.

hilary said:

I always suggest going by the first answer, which is likely to be answering the question (if it's answerable at all) directly.

Click to expand...

I almost tagged your comment with a "thanks", but wanted to throw it on the back burner, see what comes of it. This morning I read it with a confirmatory outlook. Teacher's used to say, when in doubt, go with the first answer that comes to you.

I know the brain slows when we grow older, but I feel really lame when this happens, and it's drawn my attention to there being at least two simultaneous consciousnesses.

I click Bookmarks to find a certain website. Meanwhile my mind is off thinking about something else.. possibly a third consciousness, Then I wake up, and with a slight degree of frustration, realize I've gone off the track of my mission to find and open this particular website. Then I wake up from waking up, to realize I had the pointer pointing at the correct link the entire time. It happens all the time. I just shake my head at myself, but then ponder on how this happens. I don't need Freud or Jung's theories and definitions to directly show me that, at any given time, consciousness is operating in layers. While the original one is already where the others are trying to get to. They just need to wake up to see it.

Once during a life or death emergency, I remember holding the phone in my hand and repeating to myself aloud, what's that number!!? The emergency phone number, which I grew up with, had completely escaped me, I thought. Then someone answered with "911, what is your emergency?"

meng
old, ugly, effective. :bows: perhaps could change it into effective. subconsciously
just not sure what to think anymore...say someone had a nasty shock or a fight and asking Yi about it...it would make sense to me that the answer is bad, as Yi would be depicting the current situation and the feelings involved anyway...but would that be the cast to go by as it was the first one on the subject?

I don't think the first Q&A is always the 'once and for all solution,' but if I do follow up readings (for others or for myself), and the water gets too cloudy, returning to the first Q&A for a fresh look will often reveal the essence of the matter, sometimes in a most obvious way.

This is a regular practice when looking over someones long string of Q&A's. I read them all, but always return to the original, and the most plain and direct answer is there.

To me, it's not whether something is good or bad, but whether the experience is beneficial or detrimental, and that's so often determined by ourselves.

I was thinking earlier about posting a thought, and then put it off, so maybe I'll just throw it out here, because it relates.

How many times during the course of your average day do you ask yourself if you are happy or sad, if you're feeling good or bad? Just that, not even going into ways to adjust your mood and temperament. Just think if you could settle that question once and for all, but then you'd miss out on all the fun of driving yourself insane by endlessly creating questions. Ya think the Yi might once in awhile take a deep breath, hold up its hand and say, enough! Return... to the first question and answer.

Well, just a few observations from personal experience.

I agree with meng that the surest way to avoid getting enmeshed in the endless spiral of asking too many questions is simple: slowing down. I make it a habit to read as many different translations as I can (I have purchased various books recommended here, plus I always search the Clarity archives) - so it takes time to really go all through these resources. Then I write down by hand the gist of what I think the answer means (this helps synthesis as well). It can take days or even weeks before I feel satisfied with my understanding (but, at the same time, my understanding is somewhat less superficial than it would have been otherwise).

However, sometimes, for all my efforts, my understanding remains ambiguous. I've come to a point where I think the best thing to do in such a case is simple: accept it. I accept that I'm not going to be able to have a meaningful interaction with the Yi at that point and that there is absolutely no point in asking further questions in order to get a meaningful answer.

If I continue to feel some anxiety and feel the urge to ask questions on the same matter, I go on and ask but turn attention to myself; I become more inward-looking. Usually, it is the feeling of lack of control over external events or circumstances that causes us anxiety - while working with ourself (without care for what we can achieve in the external world) is more within the scope of our capabilities.

I find that if I work on myself, then, at some later point, when I go back to enquiring about external things (even when I go back to the same issue that had puzzled me) I get a more meaningful answer and, often, a more favourable one in terms of what I would like to achieve. Or, should I say, of what I could achieve. Because if one has managed to think more clearly and to keep fears and doubts at bay, then surely one is better able to blend harmoniously with outer reality.

Finally, I think it is very important for all of us who use the Yi for guidance to remember to think for ourselves. I think it was Blofeld or Whincup who, in the introductory notes to his book, wrote that he had ceased consulting the Yi a long time ago because he had realized at some point that he wanted to start making decisions for himself by himself (or something similar).

A related issue is that we have to remember that we are capable of doing things the right way without first consulting the Book - not all the time, but pretty much most of the time. We can move along our path effectively without guidance too; we just have to believe in ourselves.

Long post, hope this helps a bit. I've gone through the phase of repeated questioning and the consequent confusion often in the past but it's just a phase. Next, a different phase will arrive in the development of an ongoing interaction with the Oracle, relapses may occur from time to time, but it's not the end of the world.

el_2

el_2 said:

Because if one has managed to think more clearly and to keep fears and doubts at bay, then surely one is better able to blend harmoniously with outer reality.

Click to expand...

Eloquently said.

el_2 said:

Finally, I think it is very important for all of us who use the Yi for guidance to remember to think for ourselves.

Click to expand...

*gasp*

el_2 said:

..we have to remember that we are capable of doing things the right way without first consulting the Book - not all the time, but pretty much most of the time. We can move along our path effectively without guidance too; we just have to believe in ourselves.

Click to expand...

Sounds like something the Yi might say; something about magic tortoise and drooping mouth.

I don't know how to insert quoted texts but, just so you know, I LOLed when you gasped meng.

meng
old, ugly, effective. subconsciously ?

Well, I don`t know how to multi quote.
Thanks for your thoughts and words of experience.
Yi should be used for things that are bothering us, grayish areas illumination sort of a thing, IMO.
I don`t like to ask about everything and anything, kinda does not feel right.
Also somehow think that in old times, people did not have a lot of time to ponder over the answers, must have had interpretors or get it very (dare I say) literally. My idea of it just. had no time to search for the history books yet.
I generally feel I could relate to answers and I went weirdly far with one issue in particular only.
I even asked once, why this affirmative answer when the results are not as promising as seemed will be? The answer I understood as "You needed to go through the process" which made me angry, because I did not like nor asked for the experience all together. But then again, I did ask and choose to believe in interpretation offered.
Of course it is in the spirit of the Buddhism to ask and accept in a moderate, middle way manner but we are not Buddhists, most of us.
And my Zen (when we meet) needs no questions.:bows:

meng said:

I don't think the first Q&A is always the 'once and for all solution,' but if I do follow up readings (for others or for myself), and the water gets too cloudy, returning to the first Q&A for a fresh look will often reveal the essence of the matter, sometimes in a most obvious way.

This is a regular practice when looking over someones long string of Q&A's. I read them all, but always return to the original, and the most plain and direct answer is there.
I just love direct answers, thank you.

How many times during the course of your average day do you ask yourself if you are happy or sad, if you're feeling good or bad? Just that, not even going into ways to adjust your mood and temperament. Just think if you could settle that question once and for all, but then you'd miss out on all the fun of driving yourself insane by endlessly creating questions. Ya think the Yi might once in awhile take a deep breath, hold up its hand and say, enough! Return... to the first question and answer.
Love this

Click to expand...

:bows: