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asking about someones comitment 43.3.4 > 60

diydef

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Hello all!

I rarely post something to the forum actually this might just be the second thread I start. It is related to a long lasting relationship. It officially ended due to the other party's initiative but was decaying for a long time already. The time that passed since then (more than half a year) has been healing for both of us, but also contact was far from abundant-something I feel disappointed about. I feel much of a bond I am trying to temper down my need of contact and let go of it as Yi has been advising me to do for a long time already (along with other entities - family, friends). I nevertheless feel committed and mostly interpret the requirement of letting go as one of letting go of expectations and and a need to put pressure on the other party, not the commitment itself - this is hard to separate but I feel working on it has been quite productive and enriching and so I embrace this advice although its not easy to cope -working on it :) . I believe that the other party has some capacity left for a mutual future but it's time and shape are yet to be determined. Even though I feel anxious inside I try to limit my contacts and pressure to a required minimum due to my efforts at tempering my hastiness and inner emotional fire as well as from a position of respect for the other person's healing space. Once in a while I consult Yi asking if it is a right time to make some symbolic step forward - a casual talk, flick invitation etc. Usual responses have been disencouraging calling on me to hold my temper or even letting me know that letting go totally might be the better option. Today I got a phone call with a request for a talk/meeting. This is in regard to family issues but also "our" situation will most likely move into the picture at some point. Still I am aware it is not my place to force such a topic and abuse it when it appears. And so I asked Yi how should I act for mutual benefit (in the sense of the benefit for our relation, not particular parties - obviously this sounds preasumptious that a relation is best for us but some kind of relation will remain since we have several mutual things in our lives and do not hate or dislike one another). Got 8 unchanging. Reassessed myself and feel fully committed despite being aware of many sacrifices that might be required from me (the relationship was turbulent throughout all its history) or loss I might suffer. Ready to wait, and drop expectations of a confirmation or commitment declaration from the other party. So I feel my stance is stubborn but clean and nothing ill-minded or hesitant remains at its core. Still, thought to ask again as Yi advised in 8. So I ask again this time about the other person - "Are they sure <about us> ?" I get 43.3.4 > 60. And so there is the question that has been bothering me often when asking about other peoples' positions/feelings and I find most adequate here as line 3 contains reference to a two-party chase. Who would Yi most likely be referring to ? Normally it'd be obvious for me who is the pursuer and who is being pursued, but since here I'm asking about another person it gets a bit messed up since both of us are pursing something at the moment and neither of the pursued values needs to represent the other person in my view. What's your take on asking about other people and such relative answers?
 

ginnie

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You really have a vague way of writing, diydef! Anyway, it is best not to ask about other people, as this usually leads to the confusion you are experiencing.
 

Trojina

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Is your current question connected to your last question here


https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?22441-20-6-gt-8-and-64-2-4-gt-23


If so maybe you have more news for us on that thread about what happened ? I know you came back to the thread but questions about what other's think are mostly fruitless for archive interest because of course we never do find out what the other person did think. Your questions there were about what someone thought so did you ever find out what she thought, from her ?



I rarely post something to the forum actually this might just be the second thread I start. It is related to a long lasting relationship. It officially ended due to the other party's initiative but was decaying for a long time already.

Breaking your post up into chunks as new members are unable to format due to forum glitch.

So the relationship was ended by the other person. Possibly the same person as in the previous thread ?



The time that passed since then (more than half a year) has been healing for both of us, but also contact was far from abundant-something I feel disappointed about. I feel much of a bond I am trying to temper down my need of contact and let go of it as Yi has been advising me to do for a long time already (along with other entities - family, friends). I nevertheless feel committed and mostly interpret the requirement of letting go as one of letting go of expectations and and a need to put pressure on the other party, not the commitment itself - this is hard to separate but I feel working on it has been quite productive and enriching and so I embrace this advice although its not easy to cope -working on it :) .

I can't see how any relationship is possible without expectations. It's an unrealistic ideal to expect to have no expectations. It isn't possible to turn your mind into an amoeba so it is better to be clear to yourself about your wishes and expectations even if you aren't supposed to be having any.

I believe that the other party has some capacity left for a mutual future but it's time and shape are yet to be determined. Even though I feel anxious inside I try to limit my contacts and pressure to a required minimum due to my efforts at tempering my hastiness and inner emotional fire as well as from a position of respect for the other person's healing space.

I translate this as you believe the other party,( possibly your ex wife who got pregnant by someone else without telling you ?) has still some receptivity towards you. You feel there is some openness there although it's not clear what for any future relationship might look like. You aren't putting any overt pressure on her about this it's just something you are thinking about.



Once in a while I consult Yi asking if it is a right time to make some symbolic step forward - a casual talk, flick invitation etc. Usual responses have been disencouraging calling on me to hold my temper or even letting me know that letting go totally might be the better option. Today I got a phone call with a request for a talk/meeting.

Good. The talk hasn't happened yet but you are anticipating that it might include the topic of your relationship ?


This is in regard to family issues but also "our" situation will most likely move into the picture at some point. Still I am aware it is not my place to force such a topic and abuse it when it appears. And so I asked Yi how should I act for mutual benefit (in the sense of the benefit for our relation, not particular parties - obviously this sounds preasumptious that a relation is best for us but some kind of relation will remain since we have several mutual things in our lives and do not hate or dislike one another). Got 8 unchanging.

Are the mutual things children ? So you asked how to act in the is talk for the sake of the best for both of you and got 8uc ? It seems more a question than anything else ? Who do you belong with and what are you in together ?


To me you sound as if you are heavily restraining yourself from expressing that you want a relationship again. Is there a reason you must restrain yourself so much ? Has she told you to go away or not to bother her or something like that ? The thing is I think with 8 it is better to either choose to commit and go for it or not.


Reassessed myself and feel fully committed despite being aware of many sacrifices that might be required from me (the relationship was turbulent throughout all its history) or loss I might suffer. Ready to wait, and drop expectations of a confirmation or commitment declaration from the other party.

:confused: well 8 does have to do with commitment. Not so much formal commitment but what naturally belongs where. 8 does not say you have to drop expectations but rather fully own your wishes rather than chop yourself in half.



So I feel my stance is stubborn but clean and nothing ill-minded or hesitant remains at its core. Still, thought to ask again as Yi advised in 8.


I don't think 8 has to be taken as literally telling you to ask Yi again it is rather asking you 'what is this really all about ? ask yourself more questions, why are you asking this, inquire of yourself'.


So I ask again this time about the other person - "Are they sure <about us> ?" I get 43.3.4 > 60. And so there is the question that has been bothering me often when asking about other peoples' positions/feelings and I find most adequate here as line 3 contains reference to a two-party chase. Who would Yi most likely be referring to ? Normally it'd be obvious for me who is the pursuer and who is being pursued, but since here I'm asking about another person it gets a bit messed up since both of us are pursing something at the moment and neither of the pursued values needs to represent the other person in my view. What's your take on asking about other people and such relative answers?


Are they sure about you ? :confused: I thought they had ended it and you were being very self restrained in expressing your desire to resume it ? Or is this someone who wants you there when it's convenient and otherwise tells you to have 'no expectations' as if any human relationship could possibly occur without them. It's pretty basic to have expectations otherwise no friendship could even happen.

Anyway re what you are asking, I will post the link to advice for relationship questions, but in answer to your question how do you to whom the answer refers the short answer is you don't. That is one good reason why asking of other's feel it's rarely a helpful question as you end up without a clue who it's about most of the time.

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...42-Blog-post-Advice-for-relationship-readings




Also of course it gets you no nearer knowing what the person thinks. I mean who goes up to a person and says 'hey the I Ching told me you think this so is it right do you think this ?'. So you aren't much further forward.

Most often when you ask about others you get advice for how you need to think or how you need to get a view on the relationship and so on. Looking at your last thread for example you had 20.6 which tells you to look and see what you can see.


So you can ask what other's think and it might be of interest but it also might not be very informative and as I said how are you going to check you got it right unless you ask them.


More useful in terms of ease of interpretation to ask about what you need to do/think/say then at least you know who the answer is for and generally you will get an idea from that answer of what the other thinks anyway
 

Trojina

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Of course having said all that as long as there are humans and as long as there is Yi people will always be asking about what other's think, it's only natural, but it does make answers more or less impossible to interpret.


So your actual question was


So I ask again this time about the other person - "Are they sure <about us> ?" I get 43.3.4 > 60.


I wonder if you meant 'sure' as want to be together or not as the story is a bit confusing. I am never going to interpret someone else's reading according to imagining what is in someone's head, it's not even fair on the other person, they should be left to speak for themselves anyway. I can try in my own readings sometimes though it is rarely useful due to the reasons in my last post.


So if I were interpreting this for you ...or even her (which I wouldn't want to do) then this looks very painful, very painful.


There's the urge to speak out in 43, an inner conviction and that inner conviction is not easily expressed. 60 as relating hexagram shows this is all very carefully portioned and how do you slice and portion a conviction ?


To me this reading sounds exactly like you in your post and how you come across to me. You come across to me as in pain, as deeply believing something about this relationship yet not daring to speak too openly, nor daring to let yourself feel it fully. In line 3 often you just aren't really believed or taken seriously enough and it can be quite humiliating although I think generally one does win through in the end. Sometimes in line 3 you are left feeling quite exposed as you make your stand or petition. Line 4 is also painful. Most often it seems to come when one really has to do something one does not want to do ! Haven't got very clear thoughts on line 4 although it is kind of like 'do I have to ? Really ?'


BTW Hilary just wrote a Blog post on 43 I will link to it. She talks about each line that you got.



https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?26165-Blog-post-Hexagram-43-Deciding



In general as a stranger reading your words and seeing the casts I feel you would do yourself some good by speaking out quite plainly for what you want because the cost to you of being so very careful and restrained is painful. Perhaps you have no choice though, as you say you kind of don't want to upset the applecart.


But how would it be if you spoke to her quite openly ? Hexagram 8 isn't encouraging you to wait and see, it's encouraging you perhaps to decide where your own conviction lies and I do think you have a conviction about this from the 43.

43 isn't a great one for romantic partnerships, it's very single minded and yet what choice do you have other than to be truthful about what you want ? I think 43.3 would encourage that.


Do you have a deep conviction about this relationship that you wouldn't express to her perhaps but that you do have deep inside ? It's more than wanting someone it's more like actually believing, being truly convinced you belong together. Extremely painful if she doesn't see it that way.
 

diydef

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I appreciate such a comprehensive approach. In the end (as of now) it worked out pretty messed up and your replies actually sounds rather uplifting from the perspective of what I am experiencing at the moment. I will give all of this a few days to sink in and follow up.
 

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