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Thread: The minister and the Sage

  1. #1
    jesed Guest

    Default The minister and the Sage


    The thread with cherrypicka had remember me a little story I wrote some time ago. I'll share it in case it could be of any use

    The young minister searched for the former imperial strategist, who had retired in a monastery several years ago. His worry was the increasing rumor of an invasion from the north border.

    - Will we suffer an invasion?. The minister asked
    The old man appeared from his tower of observation and answered him:
    - I see an enormous army being mobilized from the border; undoubtedly it tries to invade. It would be convenient if you strengthen the frontier guards, gather provisions and organize militarily the villages.

    The minister asked: - Which are the intentions of the enemy chief towards me?
    - The invader already has penetrated the border, and tries to overthrow the prince. If that happens, you will be a prisoner. It would be convenient if you mobilize the army and move the capital of the empire to a secure zone

    The minister returned to ask - There are possibilities that they catch me?
    The old man returned to appear, and worried answered - The invading army is devastating already the neighboring villages. The situation is urgent, it is very possible that you would be caught. I would suggest you to withdraw and to cross the Great River, later you could accumulate a major army there

    The minister still asked - I must cross the Great River now, or tomorrow with the low tide?
    The old man answered - the invader has plundered the capital, flees as soon as possible, because the enemy is coming here.

    The minister returned to ask - I must escape for the north hillside, or for the west hillside?
    The Elder did not answer, since he wisely had started the retreat; the minister was found by the invader while he continued waiting for the response. And he was made a prisoner.

    Confucius said: Knowledge without Wisdom is dangerous
    Last edited by jesed; September 7th, 2006 at 03:07 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006


    Hi jesed,

    very good.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 1970
    Oxfordshire, UK


    I haven't followed the thread with cherrypicka, so I don't know what this is 'aimed' at, but I like the story in its own right. I'm sure I've divined for that minister a few times, and been him.

  4. #4


    I have read the thread with Cherrypicka and don't know what its 'aimed' at.
    Last edited by Trojina; September 7th, 2006 at 05:18 PM.

  5. #5
    jesed Guest


    Hi trojan

    In the way I see it, cherrypicka got a clear answer. The way the thread develop, instead of provide clarity, lead to confusion and avoid the clear initial answer.

    Even if I strongly suggest the dialogue aproach to clarify issues, when the issue is clear, one should act according with the clarity and don't distract oneself with further questions.

    Best wishes

  6. #6
    bruce_g Guest



    That’s the down side of doing readings in an open forum like this, where others have different interpretations. One-on-one readings can be more effective for that reason, plus there’s more intimate contact between reader and sitter.

    I personally do not feel that either your reading or Willowfox’s initial reading were correct at all; far to narrow of an answer for the limited amount of information either of you had to work with. Hence all the protesting from others. I felt that you and Willowfox were projecting your own values into the reading – something we all do to some degree – but not usually with such absolute certainty as with your or Willowfox’s interpretations.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 1970
    swamp in river delta in Holland


    I just wonder, if Willowfox or Jesed asked an important question and got an answer from a person he does not know, and has no idea how that person got to that answer, would he follow the advice?
    The minister went to a sage who he knew was a sage, he did not go to just someone he met accidentally, and anonymous too.
    Would be a very dumb minister, even dumber than the one who did not act right away.

    Last edited by heylise; September 8th, 2006 at 06:33 AM.

  8. #8
    bruce_g Guest


    I see now, that Jesed is the sage in his story, and Cherry was the foolish minister. Am a little slow on the uptake today.

  9. #9
    jesed Guest



    1.- Sorry that you misunderstand my comment

    I wasn't saying that I'm a Sage, neither that Cherry is a fool

    I was saying that the Yi is the sage, and too many questions can made us avoid take action

    2.- I have no problem with others interpretations; I had never proclaim have the only truth, neither that I made no mistakes. But I do have problem with not given arguments.
    If you think my interpretation is wrong, please give your arguments.

    Best wishes

  10. #10
    jesed Guest


    Hi Lise

    Totally agree with you.

    In my personal case (maybe you could see some diference between willowfox and I, not only in the methods and ways to interpret, but in our personalities):

    a) When i started to learn, i did search for a trustfull teacher.

    b) For the people I'm in personal (face to face) contact, I had always recomended to investigate the experience of people doing interpretation based on the relation interpretation/empirical facts.

    c) For people in forums, I suggest to take the time to search previous interpretations, and see (when this can be seen) the accuracy interpretations/empirical outcomes.

    In the forum where I belong, there is as a rule that the "fee" is the commitment to return and give the empirical outcome. So, we have 2 sections... "before transition" (interpretations when we don't have the outcome) and "after transition" (interpretations when we do have the empirical outcome). That is very useful for a) learning and b) discern good and bad practitioners.

    Best wishes

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