Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 23

Trojina · Jun 3, 2013

I must have had 23uc many times but 2 particular instances come to mind. Neither were especially painful for me but both indicated an ending...and both were about aspects of support.

1. I had some work as a support worker, in college, for an asylum seeker in the UK. My job was to sit with her in classes, help with the language etc etc so she could keep up with what the teacher was saying. She had experienced great trauma in her own country, was suffering from stress at all the strangeness of this one.....many many difficulties I could only imagine. We got on very well and I enjoyed the work. Sometimes my work was extending beyond my role as at times she'd need other help...like transport when she had no money etc. She did well but I was aware she was struggling with her living conditions so her attendance got more erratic. She was going away more often to try to get some money...not a happy time for her. She was saying she was going to continue at college but one could begin see her efforts were undermined by her difficult life situation..

I asked a general question about continuing working with her. I got 23 uc. It puzzled me because at the time all still seemed relatively stable on the surface. However before long things got too much and she left the area, left college, to get money and this was hard and sad at the time as it seemed the end of her studies/end of her aspirations. ETA I should add before this happened we did a lot of running around to get her more financial support. I went with her to student support offices...we tried everything. I recall almost being in tears about it..it was frustrating...but in the end it had to be accepted...it was a 23 time I guess.

Was it 23 for her , for me or for the situation ? I think it was all of it. There were aspects of that course that weren't right for her level of English....much too hard. Maybe if she could have put every ounce of her mind and energy into the course it would have been fine but her mind was, necessarily, more on survival. I saw her a few years later and in a much more stable position, more able to resume studying. In hindsight that 'falling apart' of that initial study period was only natural. It felt sad at the time but how could she study when she couldn't eat ...or travel and was fearful of deportation ? The 23 for me I suppose was loss of that work and not just financial loss but I had taken an interest in her progress and we liked each other.

All ended well anyway and I saw her well and happy a few years later and she told me she was resuming her studies

we need 23 to make way for new and better foundations. Can't build a new life on crumbling foundations...and thinking on it her situation reflected in my own life too.

2. I was offered a very cheap room at a premises to work from. The idea being I think that I'd benefit the main business by bringing custom in. This seemed an generous opportunity for me and I suppose I'd expected the owner of the business to take some interest in the progress of what I was doing as essentially the better I was doing the more money she'd get. I asked a few questions about her..I think I first asked about that expectation of her support/interest...and got 23 uc which greatly puzzled me at the time...how could 23 uc apply

I asked another question concerning our relationship when I had to spend some time with her over something else and got 23uc again. However we had a perfectly friendly interaction....so I just couldn't see that 23 uc. However in the course of time a few things made me realise there was infact a complete detachment from what I was doing there...to the point where 'building up', making 'something solid' on that basis wasn't going to happen. As I type I also realise there was building rubble about....and dust in my room due to a building next door being semi demolished/renovated and also a great deal of noise which made it hard to work.

For this pair 23 and 24 Lise wrote in some old notes I have

Your road is not what you go but what you are
23 - depend on the inside , the outside can get lost
24 - go on and on following your road

Hilary writes of this pair in her book

Stripping away forms a pair with hexagram 24, Returning :

'Stripping away: rotten. Returning: turnaround.'

Dead wood is pruned back with a sharp knife, and sap returns to the living root for new growth. When the old things end, a new direction opens up and a new cycle begins.

Personally I seem to find the pairs speak louder in my experiences with unchanging hexagrams. In my first experience above it's quite hard to see that 23 without also seeing the 24 of it all.

So what does Wing say about the significance of 23 in it's unchanging form...?

"The lower trigram K'UN, submission , yields to the presence of KEN, immovability, above. When DETERIORATION is received without changing lines it implies a situation for which there is little hope. It is not in your control, and therefore your interests are not considered. Reaffirm and support your position by being benevolent toward others. If there is a way out, it lies in a submissive attitude.

It would be good to hear of other's experiences with the cast of 23 uc......if you can remember any please chuck them in. When you've had 23 uc what has it meant to you personally ?

hilary · Jun 4, 2013

23 unchanging... nine readings in the journal. Weird how often I've had this.

The most memorable one: 'How best to help Mum?' - asked when she was seriously ill. I had a head full of thoughts about carers, social services, nutrition etc, no idea what I was supposed to be doing. She died in that same week. 23 unchanging meant 'this is the end, there's nothing for you to do, ' and the reading helped me to stop planning and be there with her in the moment. Beautiful reading.

OK, the rest are going to sound like perfect bathos after that, but I should include them, because 23 unchanging usually does not mean anyone is dying, in my experience.

I had it for a weekly reading, and in that week was left feeling 'raw' by a painful conversation with a loved one - painful in large measure because it stripped away at my sense of my own value. Ouch. (But nothing disastrous, no long-term bad consequences, pretty useful in the end as it redirected my attention back to the roots and away from the image.)

Had it in response to 'If I bought this program, how useful would it be?' The program in question held out the enticing promise of making writing easy, but was an insanely complicated mess of features - I had a look at the trial, and couldn't make head or tail, utterly frustrating. Would've been a perfect waste of time and money.

Had it for advice for the week when I planned to tell the place where I volunteered that I was leaving, after about 12 years. It was a real wrench, but definitely the right thing to do - it had turned into one of those places where people are much less important than The System, and was depressing me more and more every time I went there, as there was nothing I could do to change anything.

Had it when a quick reading I did for someone else came out obviously wrong, and I asked what had happened. At the time I concluded, "Somehow while looking at that I could see the problem. I was not approaching Yi in the hope of learning anything at all - really, not even that I was right - but only for words to say what I wanted to say. That's dead, decaying, in need of stripping away."

I think the pattern emerging from these and Trojan's is fairly clear: stripping away and going nowhere just now; not fixable; the natural, timely thing is for this to end.

anemos · Jun 4, 2013

that's an old post that I just copy-paste here .

I recently “discovered” the image of 23. There is a person in my life going through a big transition and has all this emotional up and downs and what is more , a certain decision created some new problems to confront in a area of my everyday life.

I asked Yi “what is my role in his life, now” and “How can I helped that person” hex 23 unchanging in both questions ! With all those knifes and the endless cutting ( lol) in the lines, the Images’ texts didn’t fit at the beginning., didn’t make sense. Confusion

So I had to be the mountain to hear the mountain and I had to be the earth to hear the earth. The mountain talked about my individuality, the earth about nourishing and then it made sense . Because , in the certain situation by giving that person what was important at the moment didn’t really affected my self. So by giving up something I really didn’t need I could give a chance to the both of us. And then the stripping idea in the image’s text became visible.

that was one of those reading imprinted in my mind. Not sure how things would be if I had stripped them then or if I read it correct but as an idea help me to deal those ups and downs by focusing on what they were going through and don't pay attention to reactions.

precision grace · Mar 4, 2015

I just had 23 uc for a question about what should I know about my current health problems.

Awkward. If you don't hear from me again, thank you for all your help over the years.

hilary · Mar 5, 2015

Awkward, indeed. But please read all my post above, not just the emotionally intense part! Besides, I once had 23uc for an annual reading, and I'm still here. (Not a bad year, as far as I can remember.) Something ends - it doesn’t have to be your physical existence.

precision grace · Mar 5, 2015

I aten't dead. Yet.

Thanks Hilary, not really sure what is ending, maybe something internal, like stripping gut of harmful bacteria, or something like that? Would that work with 23 uc?

hilary · Mar 5, 2015

Could do. I've also seen a case where it meant minor surgery. (Someone with a lump - 23uc, much alarm - just a benign cyst and nothing to worry about.)

(Also - Granny Weatherwax!

)

Trojina · Mar 6, 2015

Granny Weatherwax ? I had to Google her, never heard of her....you mean in reference to 'I aten't dead yet' I'm guessing ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granny_Weatherwax

This is a good idea of hers

Despite her power, Granny Weatherwax rarely uses magic in any immediately recognizable form. Instead, she prefers to use headology, a sort of folk-psychology which can be summed up as "if people think you're a witch, you might as well be one". For instance, Granny could, if she wished, curse people. However it is simpler for her to say she has cursed them, and let them assume that she is responsible for the next bit of bad luck that happens to befall them; given her reputation this tends to cause such people to flee the country entirely.

There was someone who here who asked in SR if they were about to die. Can't recall details but she got many long heartfelt answers from well meaning members....but she never returned to tell us if she was dead or not. I did ask, because her not returning might suggest she was dead. It was a long thread. Probably needed Granny Weatherwax on it. Wonder where it is...? Personally I don't think she's dead.

hilary · Mar 6, 2015

Not heard of Granny Weatherwax? Your education is lacking. Also, I think you will find her a kindred spirit. Start with Witches Abroad, I think.

Trojina · Mar 6, 2015

I shall order it immediately.

precision grace · Mar 12, 2015

All caps very important in the following message

HE WILL BE GLAD TO HEAR IT

RIP Sir Terry

Trojina · Mar 12, 2015

He's a Magician, you can tell by his great style and his hat, so he knew hexagram 23 was in the air..(Granny Weatherwax came into the thread to say she 'aten't dead yet' .....) so I think I shall dedicate this thread to Terry Pratchett.

I found some of his thoughts on death ...and heck as we are in hex 23uc and Weatherwax came by too I thought I'd post them

[video=youtube;90b1MBwnEHM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=90b1MBwnEHM#t=21[/video]

andrea · May 14, 2015

I get 23 unchanging at least once most years, it seems.

I feel as apprehensive as anyone every time I see those broken lines building up during a reading. But for me, 23 unchanging generally hasn't presaged imminent flaying. Rather, it's seemed to reflect my own emotional state. A bit like having it show up as a relating hex, only without further comment or advice: a simple "Yes, you're definitely feeling stripped raw right now."

veavea · Jul 25, 2016

I just got 23UC for the first time that I can remember (I must have had it before). I've been feeling like there has been a lot of stripping away of dead wood - old patterns, old friends, everything. I thought I'd dispensed with an old romantic interest too but he recently resurfaced and so I asked: 'is it pointless me still having feelings for x?" 23uc.

Um. :rolling:

I then asked to clarify whether there was anything I could do to salvage situation (which, frankly, is now existing in my mind as a point of principle more than anything else; "well i can't let it end just like this with no proper resolution" type mindset): 23.2 > 4

"The bed is split at the edge. Those who persevere are destroyed. Misfortune."

Hilariously, this actually reflects something that happened to my bed at the exact time a few months ago all these unwanted elements started peeling away from my life, including losing my (horrible) job, my cats both getting sick and dying and deciding to get rid of this guy the last time - my bed broke on the edge so every time I got into it I collapsed into a heap and had to balance on the other side - until the other side broke too!! I got a new bed

veavea · Jul 25, 2016

p.s. Just checked back through my readings, I did get 23uc exactly a week ago, but didn't note down the question! however in the same minute (!!) I did another reading as clarification for that reading, and did note down the question: 'how should i proceed with x (if at all)' - the clarification was 26.1.3.5 > 59 which seemed a bit contradictory...

Looking back further I also had 23uc around the time my bed and everything else broke last December...!

butterfly spider · Aug 31, 2016

Perhaps it is the start of a new academic year, but I have been flaying about like a headless chicken for about 2 weeks. Rather like being on the train tracks waiting for a train to come.... Have had a really lovely summer but somehow the feeling of imminent catastrophe is there. This has combined with my old car developing a squeal - rather like a train brakes - which indeed was the cause (brakes and pads). I fell down the stairs (bruised not broken) I have lost my cards, and am dashing to yoga (not a good thing really) and cycling hither and thither to swimming. Nothing is really awful right now - in fact many aspects of my life are settling nicely. Still some issues, but somehow my life has come back to me - who I am and what I want to do.

I just asked - what can I do to make me feel better. I got 23 UC I had just been putting nail varnish remover on my toes, so I did laugh. But I also feel that I need to really look at what I am here. I had a really funny week a few weeks ago and somehow this feeling links in with this week too.

I always feel that hex 23 looks like a stool that could collapse.
x

butterfly spider · Sep 2, 2016

This casting was absolutely spot on actually. I discovered that there was an absolute need to strip something away - that evening. Such was the importance of this stripping away - and perhaps I would not have noticed had I not had this casting. I will now always look at 23UC as putting nail varnish remover on my toes - getting rid of something that I dont need. Not always something dangerous, more an addition to my person that needs removing.
xx

Sayuki · Sep 25, 2016

Once in my life I was through the times that felt quite 23-ish: bidding farewell to the friends who turned out to be 'friends', retiring from the long-term responsibilities, finishing my studies - all at once. For me it was definitely a good lesson of how to get off the dead horse.
At that time I came across a parable by Kahlil Gibran which succinctly and beautifully pinpointed the impressions and conclusions I got out from this experience.

HOW I BECAME A MADMAN
You ask me how I became a madman. It happened thus: One day, long before many gods were born, I woke from a deep sleep and found all my masks were stolen -- the seven masks I have fashioned and worn in seven lives -- I ran maskless through the crowded streets shouting, "Thieves, thieves, the cursed thieves."
Men and women laughed at me and some ran to their houses in fear of me.
And when I reached the market place, a youth standing on a house-top cried, "He is a madman." I looked up to behold him; the sun kissed my own naked face for the first time. For the first time the sun kissed my own naked face and my soul was inflamed with love for the sun, and I wanted my masks no more. And as if in a trance I cried, "Blessed, blessed are the thieves who stole my masks."
Thus I became a madman.
And I have found both freedom and safety in my madness; the freedom of loneliness and the safety from being understood, for those who understand us enslave something in us.
But let me not be too proud of my safety. Even a Thief in a jail is safe from another thief.

Blessed, blessed are the thieves who stole my masks :bows:

I can see it as a chain of creating Personae when needed (22) - Stripping them away (23) when they become obsolete/inefficient and thus, - Returning (24) to the core, Innocent (25) state of being, which brings about great potential and accumulates life experience (26).
For another thing, I don't know why but this hexagram uc tends to show up often when I am about to set on a journey. Hmmm. Maybe, casting away persona usually worn in previous location, habitual responses? Or inertia I am somewhat prone to.
To sum up, my experience with hex 23 uc is usually one of ending an old cycle and moving to the next.

toblindfoldher · Feb 1, 2017

Three years ago, I asked whether I will be granted a national visa, and got 23u. I got the visa, without any problems. "Those above can only ensure their position by giving generously to those below."

This morning I asked whether I will be granted a scholarship, and got 23u again. I will know about that next month.

These two questions involved moving to another continent, so I can also see how 23u applies as a physical parting, letting go of the old, stripping away.

leighl · Jul 29, 2017

I get the feeling that this can be a scary reading for some people to receive. I asked: What should I be focusing on right now?

I've been in a solitary kind of mood the past couple weeks and decided to take some time away from drinking and socializing. I think that created the space for a much needed 23 focus. When I cast this, I had just begun purging my overflowing closet and been mustering up the will to cut way back on all the excess food I've been eating and money I've been spending going out. I see this as advice to continue with that. Some less pleasant but necessary 23 aspects include: moving on from the fizzled out fling with a guy I like but who is clearly not a match for me and two surprise, fairly expensive bills that must be paid immediately (one involving my stripped brake pads).

Anyway, I don't think it has to be scary. I feel the that if I do the work of stripping these things away that I'll be in a more calm, clear, and creative place internally and externally. It is work though.

moss elk · Jul 29, 2017

What is the jun zi doing in 23?

Is there someone in your life you could be generous to? (a kid, young person, elder)

mulberry · Mar 1, 2018

My period has been irregular since I had a child last year and nursed her, but this month, as it stretched into being several weeks' late, I began to grow concerned that I was somehow pregnant again despite taking precautions. I didn't particularly want to shell out the $15 for a test, so I first asked Yi: "Am I pregnant?"

23 unchanging. What better illustration of menstruation? Stripping away. At any rate, I figured my period was not far off with a reading such as that, and indeed, it arrived the following morning.

steve · Sep 30, 2018

Hi

Everyone, I have always found this cast to be ominous, or sometimes can feel that way. I recently had this cast for a disgruntled contractor, this guy had basically been over charging me for years, and the work many times was not good, then on top of it the way he does business, is to basically blackmail you, its quite disgusting really.

I was slightly shaken, I asked the Yi what do I need to know about this.

23 Unchanged, the image I got was quite powerful, my immediate thoughts were must cut ties, do not even answer, the more I thought on the answer, I thought maybe he might actually be successful, so gathered my team and stepped up security

I finally found a way of breaking free from him beforehand, in his mind I still owed him money and in my mind I did not. We had not heard anything from him for quite sometime, then out of the blue on my skype I get a nasty message threatening a cyber attack on my digital assets. He had given me an ultimatum and said I had to pay by 11:17pm.

Anyway I thought my answer was to completly remove myself from the situation. Then as I read more about the hexagram. I read it could be compared visually to termites burrowing into something. So guess if you had termites then you may want to protect yourself.

That's exactly what we did, a cyber attack is like termites in a way. So the hexagram was giving me multiple answers, which I thought was was really cool. Once we had updated security I asked about progress, the answer I received 1.1.5>50 which I thought was really good. The next day I asked again and received hex 12 Unchanging, i thought this was telling me don't go there, your need to move on from this guy.

Unless the situation changes, I think the advice was quite positive

Steve

galatea11 · Nov 6, 2018

A once significant other accused me of doing a particular thing. I was completely innocent but he could never accept that. Knowing that I consult the I Ching he asked if he could pose a question himself. Predictably he wanted to ask if I had committed the particular act of which he had accused me. I handed him my coins, he tossed them, and the resulting answer was 23UC. All I can think is that the I Ching was advising him that he was fixated on a completely fruitless notion. I knew I was innocent but he could never fully believe it. In retrospect, maybe he was just projecting his own guilty actions upon me. Either way he and I are no longer together.

Olga Super Star · Feb 12, 2019

galatea11 said:
A once significant other accused me of doing a particular thing.

he tossed them, and the resulting answer was 23UC. All I can think is that the I Ching was advising him that he was fixated on a completely fruitless notion.

Hi
Meaning that he had to let go, strip away that idea?

marybluesky · Apr 28, 2019

I asked if my book will be presented at a certain book fair and received 23uc. I took it as a "No" and it didn't. I can't exactly explain why the hexagram meant no to me, maybe because of its negative connotations.

Olga Super Star · May 5, 2020

Many many years ago I was encouraged to ask my first questions by a housemate who was discovering the Book. I remember asking about me being an actress or what I had to do to become one (at the time I had just moved to the capital to study acting) one night before sleeping while in bed, my friend sitting next to me on the quilt, with his first copy of the I Ching.

I can’t be 100% sure but I think I threw 23 unchanging.
I literally threw the coins while in bed, making sure to have a flat surface so that they wouldn’t trip or fall ambiguously on no clear side.

Since 23 is also the bed, my friend couldn’t make a lot of it and thought Yi was mirroring my situation right then.
With hindsight, it was probably a view of the no-direction-bears-fruit garden I had decided to spent the following 9 years of my life.

Viru10 · Sep 1, 2020

Earlier this year, I cast 23uc when asking about the outcome for a job interview. I assumed it was a "No" however I received and accepted an offer from that company a few days later.

Never fully understood why I received that, but perhaps it was a warning? I currently work this job and it's certainly frustrating. Poorly organized company structure, a lot of avoidance of accountability and overall extremely stressful. Most of my time is spent thinking how I can get out.

Trojina · Sep 1, 2020

I think I have had some unaccountable 23uc casts too.

Yi can be very er unpredictable.

It's one reason I often will advise people in SR and so on not to entirely cast aside their own judgment when taking an action that can do no harm. What I mean is there are people who on receiving 23uc wouldn't have even gone for the interview and that worries me. I don't think we should close down opportunities because of what we think Yi is saying in cases where there's certainly no harm in going ahead with a plan.

At the same time there will be occasions it is a good idea to go along with what seems strange advice from Yi. For me I try not to close things down because of casts.

Though you don't like the work it pays you and it's at least not undermining your life - or perhaps it is but I think it would be difficult to turn a job down just because of 23uc.

I'd say 23uc advises one to accept loss, to not resist it in any way. It's not always painful, though often is.

Hmm odd though, perhaps you will understand in time to come.

Might it be something you are having your 'last shot' at ?

Viru10 · Sep 1, 2020

Trojina said:
It's one reason I often will advise people in SR and so on not to entirely cast aside their own judgment when taking an action that can do no harm. What I mean is there are people who on receiving 23uc wouldn't have even gone for the interview and that worries me. I don't think we should close down opportunities because of what we think Yi is saying in cases where there's certainly no harm in going ahead with a plan.

I cast it after the second round of interviews (there were 3 total), so it wasn't something I cast before doing even the first interview. That kept me from withdrawing the opportunity altogether, I was committed to completing all the interviews but figured it may not work out in the end based on the cast.

I was interviewing for other jobs at the time, perhaps it meant 'stripping away' other opportunities to decide on one. I had to withdraw from the other job interviews I was engaged in.

Trojina said:
Though you don't like the work it pays you and it's at least not undermining your life - or perhaps it is but I think it would be difficult to turn a job down just because of 23uc.
I'd say 23uc advises one to accept loss, to not resist it in any way. It's not always painful, though often is.

Hmm odd though, perhaps you will understand in time to come.

This is true. Stress is probably more due to the pandemic on top of tight deadlines etc, but I'm lucky to have an income when many of my friends are unemployed now. I cast 56 (unchanging and changing) and 55uc a couple times in regards to this job. So I know it's not a permanent gig (which I'm thankful for lol).

Another job I was interviewing for was a lot more desirable but seemed to be more competitive. I had to withdraw from that interview process (I was like 4 months in by that point) because the offer for my current job expired in 3 days. Definitely felt like a loss, as it was in academics/teaching and I enjoy teaching a lot. Perhaps 23uc meant I would have to give up that job opportunity to pursue my current job.

Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 23

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veavea

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butterfly spider

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