Memorizing the I Ching: 34. Ta Chuang / The Power of the Great

Sparhawk · Nov 8, 2007

----- -----
----- ----- above CHêN THE AROUSING, THUNDER
--------------
--------------
-------------- below CH'IEN THE CREATIVE, HEAVEN
--------------

The great lines, that is, the light, strong lines, are powerful. Four light lines have entered the hexagram from below and are about to ascend higher. The upper trigram is Chên, the Arousing; the lower is ch'ien, the Creative. Ch'ien is strong, Chên produces movement. The union of movement and strength gives the meaning of THE POWER OF THE GREAT. The hexagram is linked with the second month (March-April).

THE JUDGMENT
THE POWER OF THE GREAT. Perseverance furthers.
The hexagram points to a time when inner worth mounts with great force and comes to power. But its strength has already passed beyond the median line, hence there is danger that one may rely entirely on one's own power and forget to ask what is right. There is danger too that, being intent on movement, we may not wait for the right time. Therefore the added statement that perseverance furthers. For that is truly great power which does not degenerate into mere force but remains inwardly united with the fundamental principles of right and of justice. When we understand this point--namely, that greatness and justice must be indissolubly united--we understand the true meaning of all that happens in heaven and on earth.

dobro · Nov 8, 2007

Surge. Readily available power.

I like the double meaning of 'Power of the Great'. First meaning: great power. Second meaning: the power of those who are great. (Which, if I understand things correctly, is the power that comes to and through those who have trained their egos to serve their higher self - the higher self, being without concerns of self/not-self and without concerns about time, naturally acts as a portal or gate for higher consciousness and power. The higher self is without the very things that make the ego the ego. And *that* is what makes it great. It leaves a very small, very light footprint wherever it goes. Just watching and harmonising with the higher power to the best of its ability.)

Martin will prefer the second idea, I think.

But what's the difference, do you think, between 34 and 1?

Sparhawk · Nov 8, 2007

dobro said:
But what's the difference, do you think, between 34 and 1?

The upper trigram and/or the two upper lines, duh!! :rolling:

Trojina · Nov 8, 2007

Yup Dobro is obsessed with hexagram one, he will try to introduce it to any thread by fair means or foul :rolling:

actually one could say hes very 34ish about hexagram one, hes started at least two threads about it lately, he really wants to get to the bottom of it, determined no stone shall be unturned regarding hexagram one, nor any nuance of it hidden from his ram like determination to penetrate its mysteries.

Tohpol · Nov 8, 2007

I've always seen 34 as kind of an invigorating energy that says there's that the sparks of 1 are igniting things and it's all systems go!

But then it can all fall flat if you don't think it through. So, the emphasis on directing the energy is super-important towards the connections that have been made (maybe from the strategic retreat of 33?) and now the electrical current is about to flow - throw that switch!

So the power of the intellect I think is indicated here in order that the horse of the emotions doesn't run away with all those reserves and end up going Phfffut! All that carefully brewing energy sent down the drain or beaten against the wall...Then I suppose it can indicate ego-inflation as well. In fact any extreme where the energy overflows and things run dry.

Overall though it's an inspiring hex I think.

Topal

Trojina · Nov 8, 2007

My personal association with 34 is 'too much force' . All the lines are advising how you handle the amount of power you have at your disposal, if your're not careful you trample someone or hurt something or just get stuck .

dobro · Nov 8, 2007

Could the difference between 34 and 1 be that the power of 34 is more at your own disposal (hence a need for some kind of code or morality) but in the case of 1 the energy is coming from a higher level, and you're somewhere on the scale of 'leaf in the wind' to vessel or channel of it (you're not directing it, you're just part of it).

Tohpol · Nov 8, 2007

dobro said:
Could the difference between 34 and 1 be that the power of 34 is more at your own disposal (hence a need for some kind of code or morality) but in the case of 1 the energy is coming from a higher level, and you're somewhere on the scale of 'leaf in the wind' to vessel or channel of it (you're not directing it, you're just part of it).

Yes, I see it a bit like that: 34 as more microcosmic while 1 is more macrocosmic. In other words, 34 is almost a subsidiary of 1 - outsourcing if you will

1 is Creativity with a big "C" tapping into the Universal source while 34 is quality of that creativity which will manifest in your life and will acted on according to your life path and personality forces.

1 Great power/Creativity rising up and "using you." 34: Great Power/Creativity manifesting and you "using it."

Topal

dobro · Nov 9, 2007

Yeah, okay, that's nice.

How come 43's not stronger than 34, then? It's got five yangs, not four.

Hey, I just had an idea. That yin at the top of 43 is the one that goes its own way, defining the main idea of 43. I know we're doing 34 and we have to go through eight hexagrams before we get to 43, but you'll thank me one day.

maremaria · Nov 9, 2007

:bag:What if we say that it has to do with the different character traits of Chen and Tui. Tui is about feelings . If we say that actions driven by emotions in 43 and actions driven by force in 34 ??????????

:bag:

(I’m obsessed with Tui these days and I see her everywhere ….. )

Maria

Tohpol · Nov 12, 2007

THE IMAGE

Thunder in heaven above:
The image of THE POWER OF THE GREAT.
Thus the superior man does not tread upon paths
That do not accord with established order.

Thunder--electrical energy--mounts upward in the spring. The direction of
this movement is in harmony with that of the movement of heaven. It is
therefore a movement in accord with heaven, producing great power.
However, true greatness depends on being in harmony with what is right.
Therefore in times of great power the superior man avoids doing anything
that is not in harmony with the established order.

charly · Nov 13, 2007

maremaria said:
... different character traits of Chen and Tui. Tui is about feelings ... actions driven by force in 34...

María:

I believe you are right, action driven by force.

大da4: big / huge
壯zhuang4: strong / strenght / power
利li4: profit
貞zhen1: divinate / omen / persevere

Big power! Profitable omen!

The character 壯zhuang4 has half a tree at the left and warrior / scholar at the right, the shape of a big stick in the hand of a tall man → big power, the policiy of the big stick. It has its strenghts and its weaknesses, that's why the wish «Profitable omen». If you are going to apply force, you need it. Maybe Zhuang is the Force itself.

Maybe it reminds you the «Ace of Wands» from the Rider Tarot:

from: http://www.magicians-table.com/wands.html#AceofWands

The wands of tarot have always sprouts, like the half tree of zhuang. Living Force. Zhuang is most used for men, but also could be applied to women, powerful women.

Yours,

Charly

getojack · Nov 13, 2007

Da4 Zhuang4

象曰‧雷在天上‧大壯‧君子以非禮弗履‧

dobro · Nov 13, 2007

getojack said:
Da4 Zhuang4

象曰‧雷在天上‧大壯‧君子以非禮弗履‧

The ideogram is clearly of two guys and a cactus. The fatter guy is telling the skinny guy to put on some weight: "Be like the noble cactus, skinnybutt - stand boldly against the skyline!" Standing tall against the skyline like the noble cactus is the original meaning of 34.

Sparhawk · Nov 14, 2007

dobro said:
The ideogram is clearly of two guys and a cactus. The fatter guy is telling the skinny guy to put on some weight: "Be like the noble cactus, skinnybutt - stand boldly against the skyline!" Standing tall against the skyline like the noble cactus is the original meaning of 34.

Ah..., being prickly and showing how to be a prick as a metaphor for 34...

Hey, it works for me!! :rolling:

charly · Nov 14, 2007

dobro said:
The ideogram is clearly of two guys and a cactus. The fatter guy is telling the skinny guy to put on some weight: "Be like the noble cactus, skinnybutt - stand boldly against the skyline!" Standing tall against the skyline like the noble cactus is the original meaning of 34.

Hi Dobro:

Good finding, maybe that's the reason why chen/thunder is above tian/sky, there is also «from such a pole that splinter» (1), and what is a catus if not a pole planted in the soil, like a sweet potato (2).

The only difference is that this cactus has two arms for to implore a gift from the heaven (3)

I already saw this cactus somewhere, it is very close to 土 earth radical.

Yours,

Charly

________________________________
(1) «de tal palo tal astilla», from that father that son.
(2) «enterrar la batata», from my country slang.
(3) people say that a gift from Heaven is needed for getting a triplet, a good amount of luck.

frank_r · Nov 15, 2007

Hello everybody,

I had a little retreat, was in China for some weeks were I was on a study trip to see acupuncture in hospitals.
But life goes on and I see that Rosada is gone because of illness. I hope see will back soon. And recover from her illness.

But now 34 is started, and I saw already some interesting thoughts, I liked the cactus one. It's like the horns, mentioned a few times in 34.

In acupuncture 34 has to do with the large intestines, in the chinese clock it's 5 till 7 o clock in the morning. And the month march, where nature is develloping it's great force.
It's the time of spring of the coleur green, where we really can understand what green is.

In acupuncture the large intestine is part of metal, together with the lung. Metal has to do with contraction, there is a lot of yang force in metal. (the trigrams belonging to metal are heaven and lake). So metal has even more yang than fire. And only one yin line the top line of lake, so there is only some yin in heaven. On earth and in man self there is only yang.

The large intestine also knows which part we can use for ourselves and which part not. From which part we can build our fysical, mental and spiritual being. And which part in our food is waste. As being part of metal it is very sensitive, grief has to do with the element of metal.

34 is in that way the power of integrating all food(fysical, mental and spritual)
Knowing what is nutritious food and which is not, when you can integrate the clear parts with your being you know the Power of the Great.

charly · Nov 16, 2007

frank_r said:
... some interesting thoughts, I liked the cactus one. It's like the horns, mentioned a few times in 34. In acupuncture 34 has to do with the large intestines ...
34 is in that way the power of integrating all food(fysical, mental and spritual)... the Power of the Great.

Hi, Frank:

Innards strenght (1), also much to do with yin forces. Earth force, I believe.

Here, in a cementery → earth as land of spirits, there is a God with the big wooden stick attribute, symbol of work over natural forces, the living stick (2):

from: http://culture.edu.tw/history/smenu_photomenu.php?smenuid=87

Yours,

Charly

_________________________________
(1) In spanish «hacer de tripas corazón» is to pluck up one's courage.
(2) Maybe related to Luis' prickly affairs.

Sparhawk · Nov 16, 2007

charly said:
(2) Maybe related to Luis' prickly affairs.

Am I on 'Candid Camera'??

my_key · Nov 16, 2007

Who was it that said "Peter, with great power comes great responsibility?"

THE IMAGE

Thunder in heaven above:
The image of THE POWER OF THE GREAT.
Thus the spiderman does not tread upon paths
That do not accord with established order.

Just a thought :rolling:

Mike

rosada · Nov 16, 2007

Greetings - I've been absent for awhile but am back home now with a working computer and the doctor's permission to use it. Thanks for all the your good wishes. Beyond health issues, I have also been absent due to time being totally devoted to getting Mom relocated into a new retirement home. The group here was focusing on the last three lines of 33. Retreat at this time and they were uncannily appropriate to what I was experiencing with Mom and the management at the old home. I think I'll rename "Retreat", Moving Out or Moving On. The lines perfectly discribed what we went through, the agony debating if we should leave her where she was, and the good feeling when we ultimately focused on the future and didn't look back.
I too see 34. The Power of the Great as having to do with situations where individuals hold power and the need to direct it in keeping with the Higher Power. When we toured different Assisted Living facilities to find a new home for Mom, it was obvious that we had the Power (the homes wanted our business) and we had to be concious not to expect more than was reasonable. That is, some of the homes promised they would do more for Mom than they really were equipt to do. We went with the home whose promises seemed more reasonable.

charly · Nov 17, 2007

rosada said:
... am back home now ...

Hi, Rosada:

I congratulate you had come back home and you had turned to the forum.

I know by experience what are you speaking about. I'm shure you choose the best option for your mom.

I will post assap somee jokes about Wilhelm/Baynes to celebrate your return.

Meanwhile:

34.1

Nine at the beginning means:
Power in the toes.
Continuing brings misfortune.
This is certainly true.

The toes are in the lowest place and are ready to advance. So likewise great power in lowly station is inclined to effect advance by force. This, if carried further, would certainly lead to misfortune, and therefore by way of advice a warning is added.
W/B

Power in the toes, maybe the needed strenght for to make the firsts steps or for to be alert.

To be alert: this reminds me a prairie-dog standing in his toes and looking in all directions searching for all sort of signs from predators.

From: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/kids/fun_stuff/arts_and_crafts/panhandle_4prairie_dog_town.phtml

See the little guy standing in his toes at the «listening chamber»: power in the toes.

Prairie dogs, those little pups popping in and out of holes on vacant lots and rural rangeland, are talking up a storm. They have different "words'' for tall human in yellow shirt, short human in green shirt, coyote, deer, red-tailed hawk and many other creatures.
From: http://www.livescience.com/animals/prairie_dogs_041206.html

Yours,

Charly

dobro · Nov 17, 2007

Hey, welcome back Rosada.

my_key · Nov 17, 2007

34.1 - You are starting to get itchy feet. You feel an attraction to try new/better things. But you do not necessarily have the maturity to cope with the first surges of greatness and there is a grave likelihood that you will fall off the path.
To continue Charly's theme - the young prarie dog (shall we call him Peter?) has come out of the sleeping chamber and is in the listening chamber, not only listening, but receiving all sort of sensory inputs. What he senses tells him the world outside is good and he feels ready to go get some more nourishment. ( What do prarie dogs eat?). He has the confidence of youth and doesn't know that it's a big bad world out there. Mr Wolf is lying quietly behind that clump of grass in the top left hand corner of the picture. Our young prarie dog is full of the joys of spring and is missing / oblivious to the danger signs coming in to him. Wise old prarie dog has seen the danger outside and is coming back into teh burrow. Unfortunately our pup is too busy listening and misses the visual clue. So our pup puts on his red riding hood and ventures out of the burrow. There are a bunch of other prarie dogs (collective noun may be wrong here) just back from the Christmas pantomime still crying out "He's behind you" but our hero doesn't hear and carries on regardless looking for and sniffing out his food source. Oh dear - continuing brings misfortune.

Love and hugs

Mike

rosada · Nov 17, 2007

Thanks guys, it's good - wonderful! - to be back.

Here's something weird:
We no sooner had Mom situated in her new home than she fell and twisted her ankle. I see now it sure seems to fit with "Power in the toes". With "the confidence of youth" I'd taken her out for her first walk around the new block, she dropped a kleenx and when she bent over to pick it up she lost her balance, fell, scraped her ankle, banged her head, 911, fire engines, police, emergency room, X-rays, 3hours later released thank God with no broken bones. She was tired to begin with, I should never have taken her out and I sure should have kept a hold of her arm. If I ever get this line as a prediction I will remember Mike's interpretation, "The confidence of youth not knowing it's a big bad world out there."

maremaria · Nov 17, 2007

Rosada, wellcome back.

“ Power in the toes “ reminds me the Hare in Aesop’s fable “The Tortoise and the Hare” In our country we use the expression “s/he runs like a hare for someone who runs very fast”

In this fable there is a race between the tortoise and the hare. The later is very confident about his power thus when he achieves to left the tortoise behind he decides to take a nap and then continue the race. But Surprise !!!! When he wakes up the tortoise has already finished the race. The slow-moving tortoise won the fast-moving hare. The main moral of this story is slow and steady one can reach his/hers goal (another hex maybe

) but if we isolate the story of the Hare we see, imo, that even he had the power to win the game , he didn’t use it in a proper way so he lost the race. I see 34 as “ caution !!! you may have power but this is not what its makes you Great”
The hare had all the power the race required but he was a Fool not a Great !!!!!

Maria

Trojina · Nov 17, 2007

Thats a good one for 34.1 Maria

welcome back Rosada

maremaria · Nov 17, 2007

trojan said:
Thats a good one for 34.1 Maria

Thanks , but don't tell that to my school teacher !!! We telling her "what the use of studying those things ? "

rosada · Nov 19, 2007

Nine in the second place means:
Perseverance brings good fortune.

The premise here is that the gates to success are beginning to open. Resistance gives way and we forge ahead. This is the point at which, only too easily, we become the prey of exuberant self-confidence. This is why the oracle says that perseverance (i.e. perseverance in inner equilibrium, without excessive use of power) brings good fortune.

rosada · Nov 19, 2007

"We become the prey of exuberant self-confidence," is an interesting way of defining this experience. It seems to fit Debono's situation. He posted he received this line as part of a responce to his question concerning a relationship. It seems his friend called him in tears and gave him an ultimatum - either they marry or they end the friendship. That seemed a very peculiar thing for the girl to do, but when you consider that the energies had built to this fevered pitch it makes perfect sence. Certainly this would have been a time when being able to use The I Ching to steer conversation could have been helpful, as in, "Gee honey, I think you're having a 34.2 crisis. Can we take a deep breath, calm down and persever?"

Memorizing the I Ching: 34. Ta Chuang / The Power of the Great

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