47.2 and Addiction

[Senecatwo]

Hi there, this morning I did a cast on whether I really needed to abstain from pot smoking and received 47.2 changing to 45, and I went to look through the archives here and fascinatingly enough I found this post:

trouble understanding 47.2

i have trouble fully understanding who’s the oppressor in 47.2. so a while ago i quit smoking cannabis, as i told myself while still being a heavy user that it’s a form of an experiment that i’ll run for a certain amount of time and then shall stop. and i did. in the exact time i planned...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Apparently someone else received the exact same line to the exact same question! The line speaks about a feeling of oppression at the hands of someone with minor authority, and to me this seems to partially indicate the urge to get stoned. What should be a minor pleasure drive in my mind has grown to a place of authority.

Also interesting to note in the linked post that one of the commenters said that the red knee band characters may be spirit guards who are urging me to make the sacrifice of abstaining from pot, sort of like well-meaning spiritual police. The crazy part is, a few months ago I had a dream where a figure told me that if I buy pot I'll have to go to jail, then another figure in a police station who constantly shifted shapes told me to submit to the truth of it. This was strange because marijuana is legal here.

I've been struggling to give up pot because it brings me a lot of emotional comfort in my daily life, but it has been crippling my ability to find guidance in my dreams since I can never remember them if I get stoned.

I think this line is a real urging to give something up, to make a sacrifice.

I'm going to give abstinence from THC as best a shot as I can, will update with results in about a week if there are any.

 

[IrfanK]

Sounds like a good interpretation. I wonder about:

To set forth brings misfortune.

Maybe it means the beginning stages may be difficult? Weed withdrawals are, of course, nothing like as debilitating as for alcohol, barbiturates, or heroin, but they can be unpleasant and quite long lasting, because it take quite long for it to leave your body. Not everyone even experiences withdrawals, but insomnia is a common one for people who do. Just prepare yourself, be gentle, stick with it, and remember if you feel edgy or nervous, that's where it's coming from. Mark it on a calendar and set a first goal of two weeks. Leave it until then to assess how you feel about it.

 

[IrfanK]

I've been struggling to give up pot because it brings me a lot of emotional comfort in my daily life, but it has been crippling my ability to find guidance in my dreams since I can never remember them if I get stoned.

I missed that part about what motivated your decision. Wow. Great reason! And I bet you'll see results within about three or four days. Weed is notorious for suppressing dream recall and reducing REM. Everyone talks about -- and I have reason to know myself -- that there is a huge rebound affect that comes on quite quickly. And it sounds like you've already got at least reasonable recall.

Thinking about it, the character for 47 shows a tree locked in, surrounded by a wall so that it has no room to grow. So, maybe weed is the wall and the dreams are the tree. Go through the mild discomfort and set your dreams free, then!

 

[Senecatwo]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. In many ways my life has completely closed in around me, and the sense of oppression is very real here. The only reason I'm thinking of looking for my dreams for some kind of guidance is that my life has basically been emptied out of everything that I enjoy besides weed, and even that isn't fun anymore. In many ways I don't really want to quit, its just the only thing I have the power to change by myself, and I'm hoping I can get a hint on how to fix my life this way. It feels in a way like the universe is intentionally bullying me to do this. The line is very fitting.

I feel like a homeless man who just got mugged for his last dollar, and I have very little faith in the universe, in life, in other people, and in myself left. If this doesn't make things better or at least help me get a sign for what I can do to find fulfillment or a reason to go on I am out of hope. I also received line 22.4 more than once today, but its difficult to trust that after many bad experiences in life with no recompense.

 

[IrfanK]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. In many ways my life has completely closed in around me, and the sense of oppression is very real here. The only reason I'm thinking of looking for my dreams for some kind of guidance is that my life has basically been emptied out of everything that I enjoy besides weed, and even that isn't fun anymore. In many ways I don't really want to quit, its just the only thing I have the power to change by myself, and I'm hoping I can get a hint on how to fix my life this way. It feels in a way like the universe is intentionally bullying me to do this. The line is very fitting.

I feel like a homeless man who just got mugged for his last dollar, and I have very little faith in the universe, in life, in other people, and in myself left. If this doesn't make things better or at least help me get a sign for what I can do to find fulfillment or a reason to go on I am out of hope. I also received line 22.4 more than once today, but its difficult to trust that after many bad experiences in life with no recompense.

47 sounds like it captures your situation with uncanny precision. When someone gets a reading that clear, they should pay attention to it.

Some commentators say that the man with the scarlet kneebands is the executioner, the official who imposes painful punishments. When people are dealing with addiction and withdrawal, they do have to face pain. Part of it is that the substance masks an issue, makes it less unbearable, while at the same time preventing you from having to face it. The most difficult period is when the prop is taken away from you, but the path forward is still not clear, there doesn't seem to be any reward forthcoming from abstinence. With abstinence from weed, boredom can be a big issue. Lying on your bed doing nothing all day doesn't seem so bad when you're stoned, but when you aren't, it's dreadful. And then there's still nothing you want to do instead. That's the bit you've got to pass through.

But pain and other negative feelings serve some kind of purpose. In the end, they will motivate you to do something, to find something. So embrace them.

On the other hand, in the acute stages of a substance withdrawal, your feelings may not be a reliable guide. Life is unbearable, there's nothing that makes it worthwhile. But that's the substance playing its tricks. Realize that it's transitory. That's why I suggested marking the calendar and setting an initial goal of two weeks. It's much easier than saying forever, it's an achievable target. And with a relatively less powerful substance like weed, you might already be feeling quite a lot better after that. For those two weeks, be gentle with yourself. So long as you stick to the resolution about weed, indulge yourself in other ways if you feel the need. Eventually, stuff like good diet and exercise are important, but in the early period, if you really feel like you need to eat a bucket of ice cream, do it. Just reach the two week period first.

Then start making new plans. New options may start to reveal themselves. You may find more resources available than you think. It is true that addiction isn't always, or even usually, the main problem. It's a symptom of a bigger problem. Dealing with that underlying problem may also be a huge challenge. But abstinence at least creates the space where it's possible to do it.

Like I said, I like that you mentioned a positive goal, improved dream recall. Okay, maybe get a few good books on dreams and dreaming. I just re-read some Castaneda, first time since I was a teenager. He may have been a psychopath and a fraud, but he sure could write. I also read a brilliant book, Integral Dreaming, by Daniel Deslauriers and Fariba Bogzaran. Fantastic, the best book on dreaming I've ever read. Quite dense and heavy, but. But worth the trouble.

It's worth looking at the Image for 47:

There is no water in the lake: the image of Exhaustion.
Thus the superior man stakes his life on following his will.

From what you've said, it is a matter of staking your life. It may be a struggle, but what other choices have you got? Plenty of other people have passed through challenges as big or bigger. No reason why you shouldn't. Just have faith.

PS By the way, you said you live somewhere where weed is easy to get and legal. Okay, in some ways that makes it difficult, you can just go down to the shop. On the other hand, giving up when you really don't have to, when it's a result of a decision you make, is a much more promising start than just stopping because you run out and can't get it anymore. It's the result of a positive, conscious decision. That's a good thing.

 

[Matali]

Hello,
47.2 – 45: Certainly you are confined to 47. But I see in line 2 an opening. Do you have in your entourage a friend/acquaintance/work opportunity ect that would bring you to 45 the gathering. And the fan yao 45.2 is positive: it can be an association or a domain that could interest you...

 

[Trojina]

I never think you need to take these chaps in 47.2 too seriously

'Confined while drinking and feasting,
Scarlet sashes come from all directions.
Fruitful to use thank-offerings and oblations.
Setting forth to bring order: pitfall, no mistake.'

I feel the authority here that wants offerings is the cannabis or dependence. And compared to other substances this isn't a full on addiction with severe withdrawal. I've had a fair amount of Cannabis as a youngster and stopping that was nothing as compared to the withdrawal from benzodiazipines. Who is confining you here? I think it may be the belief that Cannabis is going to be difficult to leave behind, I don't think it will be. That's not to underestimate that for you it will be hard, but I feel the answer is saying 'pay it it's due as you do with small officials and small authorities'. These sashes always make me think of traffic warden/parking police whatever you want to call them, the small authorities you must pay heed to and play their way but they do not have great authority. There is a lot of dry humour in 47 as Brad highlighted. Much of our oppression in life is due to these scarlet sashes - did you pay your taxes on time/have you had your car MOTd. What if they are Cannabis? The offering therefore I think would be fairly slow withdrawal. You give the Sash of Cannabis a little bit less each day perhaps. That might make it easier unless you already stopped and I missed where you wrote that. I like your other replies here too this was just another thought that occurred to me. These red sashes aren't hugely demanding but they want they due that's all.

 

[Senecatwo]

Well first I have to say that IrFanK, if you ever want to make a life change you can move over here to the states and become a cannabis cessation counselor, its going to be a booming industry and you've got insight that is very comforting to read. Its been hard to find the rational voice inside myself lately, and what you've said is reminding me what it sounds like.

Matali- you're on the money, my brother actually reached out to me today, I'm having dinner with him and his family "oppressed with food and drink" ha! We've been slowly rebuilding a family dynamic where we lean on each other and reach out after my family kinda splintered apart when all us siblings turned 18. I had to make the sacrifice of being there for him before even though I thought he wouldnt return it, but he has been in spades.

Trojina, its hilarious to me that you're saying that, because it relates to my update. I actually did already have a dream, but my attitude was poor before bed and I was trying to demand guidance in exchange for the first day of abstinence so of course it was a ridiculous nightmare, and I took a small puff instead of getting full on stoned when I woke up just to shake it off. I felt a lot better today than I do when I'm baked, or if I'm completely sober. Gave the devil its due without going overboard.

As for the dream, some kind of giant evil "mother" entity, like a hivemind in an anthill but for humans, was forcing me into some kind of metallic suit and then plugging me into itself, similar to the plot of The Matrix. No clue what that means other than I hated it, definitely top 10 in terms of irrational fears.

When I asked the I Ching what the dream meant I got 43.2.3 changing to 17. Im still making sense of that one but maybe the dream was an image of my attitude toward society in general? I feel subjectively like I am being oppressed and forced to conform against my will to a place in society that is not fun, the working poor. Maybe this modern way of life and I really are at odds, but not in a way I need to fight directly.

If I have any stunning revelations or dreams from here that elucidate the situation further I'll be back with another update.

 

[IrfanK]

Well first I have to say that IrFanK, if you ever want to make a life change you can move over here to the states and become a cannabis cessation counselor ...

Haha. It's more the idea of living in the States that would terrify me.

I've probably had at least my fair share of junkies and alcoholics in my life, and occasionally tried to act as a bit of a resource for some of them when they tried to kick whatever it was. I read Gabor Mate's brilliant In the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts a while back, which probably influenced how I think and what I said to you. If you haven't read it, it's worth looking at. He's in the camp that says the distinction between physical and psychological dependence is pretty meaningless, and he argues very convincingly. He's done a few good TedTalks and other presentations, you can find him on YouTube.

Thanks for your update and reply!

 

[IrfanK]

I actually did already have a dream, but my attitude was poor before bed and I was trying to demand guidance in exchange for the first day of abstinence so of course it was a ridiculous nightmare ...

As for the dream, some kind of giant evil "mother" entity, like a hivemind in an anthill but for humans, was forcing me into some kind of metallic suit and then plugging me into itself, similar to the plot of The Matrix. No clue what that means other than I hated it, definitely top 10 in terms of irrational fears.

Completely off-topic to your main post ... but I mentioned the book Integral Dreaming. One of the things I found fascinating about it was that despite the fact that they obviously think dreaming is very important -- they've devoted their lives to studying it -- they are quite skeptical about the idea of dream interpretation, particularly the idea that the way of engaging with a dream is to try and derive some useful message that you apply practically in your every day life. They talk a lot about a non-interpretive approach to working with dreams, being aware of it, exploring it, but on its own terms, not with reference to how it can be applied with waking life and not just buying into the idea that it's a message from your unconscious mind, telling you what to do.

I'm not implying you shouldn't work with dreams in any way that you find helpful, but I personally found that very interesting.

Shame the book is so expensive. Thirty bucks or forty bucks or more for a paper back, some academic publishing house, they always charge like wounded bulls.

As I said, off topic and not to do with your inquiry. I just finished the book a week or two ago and it's on my mind. Couldn't resist sharing.

 

[Senecatwo]

IrfanK, Gabor Mate is great! I haven't read his writing but I think he is one of the major unheard voices of modern culture in terms of the general awareness of how people develop. What he says about addiction being related to a lack of love early in life really resonates with me. I appreciate the recommendation.

What you're saying about dealing with dreams on their own terms reminds me of 47.2, having to make the appropriate offering when oppressed by the regulators, and of my own attitude lately towards dreams, spirituality, and even the I Ching. When I step outside myself a bit I can see that I have been trying to turn all these things upside down and shake the answers to all my life's questions out of them. Maybe I need a little bit more humility in recognition to the fact that if there is a reality to this side of life, it is much bigger than me, and I have a lot of plain old mundane earth life to do before I'm mature enough to engage with most of it. Just a quick look at 43 changing to 17 says willful determination giving way to humble but dignified following.

I've been continuing on the path of slowly tapering off my use of cannabis, being more conscious of myself at work, and trying to accept that I need to stay home and do inner work in this time. It's been very difficult for my to swallow my pride and accept that I don't have the power to actively fight all of reality, inner and outer, at the same time.

There have definitely been some reprieves from the tension of the situation, almost in response. The folks who were grieving me the most at work both unexpectedly took time off this week, and that corresponds to having gotten Hex 25 a few times over the weekend.

I've thought more about Trojina's question "who is oppressing who," as well and I think in many ways this situation is one in which I am oppressing myself. My outward life is very constricted right now, but my attitude is making it ten times worse. I'm taking everything even remotely inconvenient that happens as some kind of great personal attack, beating myself up for reacting that way, and then spinning my head in circles trying to come up with a desperate escape plan. At the same time I'm fogging my head all up with weed.

I think the 47 time of life seems like one in which a person learns whether they need ego validated from the outside in order to survive, and the answer so far seems to be yes and no. Every person needs acceptance, but in order to be accepted, one has to accept the way things are and deal with them with as much sincerity as possible on the customary terms.

At one point recently I asked the I Ching why I couldn't get a simple straight answer on what to DO and think about actively and intensely to get through these circumstances and into a better place, and I got 38.3 changing to 14, hair and nose cut off, checked and disgraced. For the sake of humbling me (and maybe revealing what, if anything, is actually worthwhile in me), this part of my path is the one in which I get the middle finger from the outside world. At least it will eventually be over

My last reading on the situation overall was 5.5.6 to 26. Looks like I have some time to go and some humble acceptance of unexpected strangers I would normally avoid in order to bridge the impasse.

I also had a pretty interesting dream last night about an "Inner Kettle" that everyone had. In the dream people had a magic cooking vessel in their chest, and if someone could see another person's they had power over them, but if I could see my own I had power over myself. Seems like a pretty potent symbol on its own.

I appreciate the persepective y'all have given me here. If there wasn't a forum like this I would probably just feel insane given how clearly and distinctly the I Ching is answering me, without giving me any clear sense of what action I can take. If three wise men show up I'll definitely come back and tell the tale.

 

[Senecatwo]

Oh I almost forgot to add, I realized that funnily enough at work the boss who is giving me the most grief is a former school teacher who is very much the controlling figure who likes the letter and law of regulations, demands attention, and talks down to people as in 47.2, and that is also a reflection of my own worst traits.

Teacher in the adversity indeed! I honestly wonder if everyone's life has this much synchronicity, and most folks either don't see it or don't know how to articulate it.

 

[IrfanK]

IrfanK, Gabor Mate is great! I haven't read his writing but I think he is one of the major unheard voices of modern culture in terms of the general awareness of how people develop. What he says about addiction being related to a lack of love early in life really resonates with me. I appreciate the recommendation.

I had a quick flick through his book before replying. He talks about how suffering abuse, particularly for long periods as a child, makes people susceptible to addiction. I guess lack of love is part of abuse, or usually. He also says that the substance in question is quite relevant, with some substances having much greater potential for addiction. So, addiction is the result of the interaction between the susceptibility of the individual and the addictiveness of the substance in question. With weed, he says around 15% of users seem to go on to display addictive behavior. Much higher for heroin and crystal meth, of course.

I've been continuing on the path of slowly tapering off my use of cannabis, being more conscious of myself at work, and trying to accept that I need to stay home and do inner work in this time. It's been very difficult for my to swallow my pride and accept that I don't have the power to actively fight all of reality, inner and outer, at the same time.

Cool. How's it going with dream recall? Having much impact? I saw a discussion on weed and recall on a dream forum the other day and thought about your post. Not everyone agreed that it did have an impact, but most did.

I've thought more about Trojina's question "who is oppressing who," as well and I think in many ways this situation is one in which I am oppressing myself. My outward life is very constricted right now, but my attitude is making it ten times worse. I'm taking everything even remotely inconvenient that happens as some kind of great personal attack, beating myself up for reacting that way, and then spinning my head in circles trying to come up with a desperate escape plan. At the same time I'm fogging my head all up with weed.

A lot of the lines in 47 seem to say that the oppression is self-inflicted:

One sits oppressed under a bare tree ...

He permits himself be oppressed by stone ...

Doesn't mean it's easy to snap out of it! Even though you didn't actually get line 6, it's worth looking at:

He is oppressed by creeping vines.
He moves uncertainly and says "Movement brings remorse."
If one feels remorse over this and makes a start,
Good fortune comes.

 

[rosada]

I haven’t read all the posts here so I’m just jumping in and giving my take on the hexagrams:

Do I really need to abstain from pot smoking?

47.2
Confined while drinking and feasting - Could be a comment that the pot smoking is somehow restricting you.
Scarlet sachets come from all directions - opportunities all around. Maybe new light coming into your life?
Fruitful to use thank-offerings - give alms to the poor Or be inwardly thankful?
Setting out to bring order, pitfall, no mistake - you may not be able to totally give it up. Take things one day at a time.

I see these lines as saying maybe you don’t have to put yourself on some sort of harsh regime that’s doomed to failure but I also see the lines as giving some advice on how to replace the habit. I’m thinking about what you said regarding addictive personalities often appearing in those whose childhoods significantly lacked approval and positive reinforcement So they turn to drink or what ever to get that happy glow.But another way to feel loved is to “give thank-offerings”, to “do unto others” because giving to others is a sure-fire path to feeling good about ourselves. And again, take it one day at a time.

 

[Senecatwo]

Hi folks, I have an update that helps elucidate the line but first real quick I just want to say:

Irfrank - I am struggling to quit weed fully, I am becoming aware that I am very emotionally dependent on it which makes the fact that you brought up Gabor Mate in the first place almost uncanny. The root of my trouble is certainly the kind of childhood issue grown twisted into adulthood that he talks about. I can tell you that my dream recall snaps back almost instantly if I abstain for a day or two, although I forget the dreams shortly after waking. Basically, I can tell that I dream again if I abstain, even if I dont have a conscious recollection of the dream. My brain must be starved for REM, and now I'm at the point where I must fully and consciously admit that one reason I have been smoking so much pot is that I have been TRYING not to have any more intense or portentious dreams, as I had a few that frightened me deeply. Reading this post back now its kind of crazy how much I repressed that awareness.

rosada- You've hit the nail on the head I think. If there is a meter for service willfully rendered to others mine is rather low. The best times Ive had lately have been hanging out with my younger brother, my sister in law, and my niece. Theyve needed some help and support too since their car got put out of commission recently and they dont have an income right now. Right there I have the opporunity to see the work I am doing as meaningful not just for me, but for them too. I've been replacing that emotional space in my life with weed and distractions, because I feel oppressed by my job and therefore begrudging of my time.

As for the update, through a series of events that feels almost impossible to explain, I ended up in a temporary psychiatric hold which I could not leave for over 24 hours, I owe a bunch of money to an ambulance company and a hospital, I'm on medication now, and the day I wound up in the hospital three higher ups from my work were the folks who came and saw me before I was sent to the clink. The line 5.6 came true in a very strange way, on top of the obvious aspect of 47.2 in a psychiatric hold.

What happened was I asked my boss if I could leave work to go see a doctor, as I was having what I could only describe as some kind of mental/emotional episode. Three people (my boss, his boss, the safety officer) came out and asked me if I wanted a ride out of concern. They ended up calling 911 because I was very manic. It's likely that I have bipolar disorder, or maybe some kind of complex PTSD, as I am beginning to acknowledge. I wound up on a temporary hold at the city hospital, and it is a funny dynamic where the waiting area is highly unpleasant to be in and they triage you based on how stressed out or crazy you act while waiting. I had no choice but finally get it together or else be imprisoned with the rest of the folks who can't.

I ended up reasoning my way home and into outpatient counseling. I'm also on a mood stabilizing medication now, which works, but makes me very restless.

After all this I still haven't managed to kick the cannabis

I believe this whole series of events, and the dreams I've been repressing, have been calling attention to this inner issue of having a broken sense of where emotional nourishment should come from. Likewise I likely have a material dysfunction in my brain stemming from early in life, which will take real effort to work with/outgrow. I think we can outgrow even a brain dysfunction as long as our reason is intact somewhere in our minds.

I can say for the line that 47 and 47.2 can be really tough, but one wont come to real harm unless one tries to fight the circumstances too hard, or in an unwise way, or beyond one's ability.

I tried fighting my inner self too hard, and it came out as projections onto other people, onto my job, and even onto the flower of the cannabis plant, and wound up with me having no choice but to finally accept some kind of unpleasant circumstance calmly and reason my way out of it.

 

[Senecatwo]

I guess I should say beyond that I'm still in medias res. I'm not really where I want to be, but maybe that's because I dont recognize the opportunities I have to be a good presence for others. Because of these counseling appointments I have now, Im challenging the boss on their attendence policy a bit. Even though it sucks for me and makes me talk to HR way too much, it might loosen things up for others. 47.2 indeed

 

[IrfanK]

Hey Senecatwo, good to hear back from you! Sorry about the challenges you're going through. I've found myself resisting recalling my dreams sometimes. For a while, I was getting terrifying dreams (not quite nightmares, which to me have a different feel) almost every night. I was keeping a dream journal at the time and making a conscious effort to recall. And I found myself wondering, if this is what I get, is it worth it? The only thing is, I think you have the terrifying dream whether you recall it or not, and it has an impact. You may wake up feeling lousy and not knowing why. So I'm not sure that not remembering is any better.

I think weed definitely inhibits recall, and many people talk about the rebound effect of having very powerful dreams after they quit. But I don't think it stops you having REM sleep at all. You still dream if you smoke weed, you just don't remember them. But then, weed has a bad impact on memory generally, or it can do.

You said you were taking some kind of prescribed meds. Okay, well, I'm not qualified to argue with a doctor, I don't know your case, and all that. Psych meds seem to work well for some people and less well for others. But if weed helps you control anxiety and so on, is it altogether a bad thing? Maybe it's a loss/benefit thing. I know a high functioning autistic who has shocking pain from myalgia. He uses weed in high doses to control his issues, while at the same time running quite a high powered business. He swears by it. So maybe it has some positive role to play for some people.

Good luck to you, whatever happens!