Major difference between 25.1 and 25.6?

[rosada]

17.1
The standard is changing. You are used to being self-sufficient and following no one's advice but your own. Now you are having to follow the advice of experts. But which expert? You listen to many and this produces results.

 

[Trojina]

Since he does not have the files/x-rays from my original chf work ups, he’s treating this more or less as from scratch, which is good. Maybe really get to the core of this thing. Same meds meanwhile. They may fix something I didn’t know was broken, and mend something that wasn’t as broken as I thought.

There's the 17.1. Fresh attention, fresh understanding from different Drs (and nurses ) It's an open optimistic line.... it's almost a 'let's get this party started' line. I like 17.1., it can take you where you didn't know you were going.

Sounds like you're in good hands

These days I like to look at the line pathway, which here is ;
45.1 (there's the 45 again)
46.6 ( 45.1 upside down)
18.6
and back to 17.1

so the 'inner story' of the experience revolves around 45.1 and 46.6...I think that's about how it feels. There's both reassurance (45.1) and the need to keep on keeping on when you don't know where you're going (46.6). 18.6, 17.1's pair dispenses with kings and lords ? I'm not quite sure how 18.6 plays a role but it must have a relation to 17.1. In both the subject walks free from established pathways.


If nothing else meandering around the line pathway is as good a way to get to sleep as counting sheep IMO.

 

[sooo]

I'm hoping this may change many standards, like having double my get up and go. I was told this should keep the pulse at 60 bpm or a bit faster, consistently.

An old guy across the road had it done. Before, hardly anyone saw him. Immediately afterward he was always busy with his garden and grounds work. Man, I'd love to have that energy again. I still have things I want to do, just need the octane.

Staying open minded, though, as anything can happen or be found. Just tell me the truth, doc, that's what I want most. I think that's innocent enough; and may the unexpected be good news when they're finished with me.

 

[sooo]

These days I like to look at the line pathway, which here is ;
45.1 (there's the 45 again)
46.6 ( 45.1 upside down)
18.6
and back to 17.1

so the 'inner story' of the experience revolves around 45.1 and 46.6...I think that's about how it feels. There's both reassurance (45.1) and the need to keep on keeping on when you don't know where you're going (46.6). 18.6, 17.1's pair dispenses with kings and lords ? I'm not quite sure how 18.6 plays a role but it must have a relation to 17.1. In both the subject walks free from established pathways.

Perhaps here or elsewhere you can more deeply explain this pathway methodology? It unclear to me.

 

[Trojina]

Perhaps here or elsewhere you can more deeply explain this pathway methodology? It unclear to me.

it's just following a circular route
take 17.1 to fan yao is 45.1
turn 45.1 upside down goes to 46.6
fan yao of 46.6 is 18.6
turn 18.6 upside down and you are back to 17.1

it's only something to play with but I often find following that route I get a sense of the flavour of the line better sometimes. Also I actually do find trying to figure it in my head is soothing and puts me to sleep since I can't usually do it all in my head....need pen and paper.

I'm hoping this may change many standards, like having double my get up and go. I was told this should keep the pulse at 60 bpm or a bit faster, consistently.

An old guy across the road had it done. Before, hardly anyone saw him. Immediately afterward he was always busy with his garden and grounds work. Man, I'd love to have that energy again. I still have things I want to do, just need the octane.

Yes to me that hope seems very likely to happen given all I've heard about pace makers, and yes 17.1 sounds a lot like that guy getting out and about and busy again as no doubt you will be.

 

[anemos]

I asked the Yi for a reading to go to sleep on after gathering all this info today. 17.1 - 45
.

that is not a reading... is a super duper natural tranquilizer to have a good night sleep Lovely reading !!!

You initiate a gathering of people that have different knowledge ans skills from your own and together you are building a temple. It feels like you are the Project Manager with a good team !!!

17 brings in mind the image of the tango dancers following each other without resistance... and hex 45 like a ball room. I'm not try to 22-sh it... i know all the worries and how it is ... but the feeling is what i said.

 

[sooo]

it's just following a circular route
take 17.1 to fan yao is 45.1
turn 45.1 upside down goes to 46.6
fan yao of 46.6 is 18.6
turn 18.6 upside down and you are back to 17.1

it's only something to play with but I often find following that route I get a sense of the flavour of the line better sometimes. Also I actually do find trying to figure it in my head is soothing and puts me to sleep since I can't usually do it all in my head....need pen and paper.

That's pretty wild. It's funny, as odd as it seems, you do make sense from it. I've never considered turning a hex upside-down, but I have reversed trigrams, such as 21/55, 38/49, etc. I think LiSe does something similar when figuring opposites.

 

[Trojina]

That's pretty wild. It's funny, as odd as it seems, you do make sense from it. I've never considered turning a hex upside-down, but I have reversed trigrams, such as 21/55, 38/49, etc. I think LiSe does something similar when figuring opposites.

I didn't invent it, I just make it sound like a bizarre thing to do to a reading. Here is Hilary talking sense about it.

http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2011/11/07/a-line-pathway/

Karcher and others do it but call it something else. I think I say 'turn the hexagram upside down' because I had to actually turn the paper around to see the hexagram upside down when it was first explained to me. Of course all you are really looking for is the hexagram's pair which you find by inverting it...ie 3 upside down is 4....and 5 upside down is 6......

see all makes perfect sense and has provided me with hours of fun.

Trigrams, well they are another matter....

...and if you turn 1 upside down it isn't 2...but all the other pairs are each other upside down.

As Hilary says

Wandering round this pathway would be quite useless, of course, if the journey didn’t show us something about the lines and reveal deeper, underlying themes.

so I think the themes are interesting. Ah just noticed it actually was Lise and Karcher who both sort of rediscovered this circle pattern/line pathway/whatever it's called.

I like 'line pathway' because one can walk it...walking this circle as I said seems to be a good narcotic for me......I forget where I am and before I know it I have fallen asleep on the path to some hexagram or another

 

[Trojina]

... hence you need to be coming round from the anaesthetic next week reciting the line pathways for both 25.1 and 25.6.....then you come back and explain it to us

 

[sooo]

Or if not, at least 26.6.

 

[sooo]

I am lame at this kind of stuff. LiSe patiently tried explaining her 'line squares' to me when she was creating them, and it just didn't sink in, and it still doesn't. All through it I find myself asking, but why?

 

[Trojina]

All through it I find myself asking, but why?

That's precisely what the dachshund was thinking but he still jumped through the hoop anyway

 

[anemos]

hahaha... suddenly the complicate subject 25.1 vs 25.6 becomes not complicate at all.

 

[sooo]

I think I've just attained enlightenment.

 

[sooo]

I think there need to be safety rules though..

 

[sooo]

If 25 is natural, then what hex. is unnatural?

 

[anemos]

was thinking about it earlier and hex 34 has a potential to be unnatural...

 

[sooo]

was thinking about it earlier and hex 34 has a potential to be unnatural...

hmm, is a bull being in a china shop unnatural? Yes. Is a bull acting out with great power, if in a china shop, unnatural? No. So the bull's behavior wasn't unnatural.

But 34 does have excess right there, to use without ceremony.

How 'bout 44? :hide:

 

[rosada]

Hmm..not sure 25 is "natural" as in the opposite being "unnatural." More like Innocent as in Adam and Eve were innocent (25.3, loss of innocence?) and thus yes, perhaps 44 is the opposite of 25 because in 44 The Maiden is Powerful, as in knows what she's doing, versus an Innocent Maiden like the person described in 25.

Rosada

 

[sooo]

Hmm..not sure 25 is "natural" as in the opposite being "unnatural." More like Innocent as in Adam and Eve were innocent (25.3, loss of innocence?) and thus yes, perhaps 44 is the opposite of 25 because in 44 The Maiden is Powerful, as in knows what she's doing, versus an Innocent Maiden like the person described in 25.

Rosada

My Myth Man, or tin man, as Trojan called him, is unnatural. He contains all of my human constructs, beliefs, habits, fetishes, moods, and especially unnecessary defenses. (can you imagine a deer with rocket launchers in place of his horns?). His nature and strong will resemble that of the 44 maiden, of whom it can be said, places him/herself on equal power and status with Heaven, demonstrated by going out to meet Heaven on his/her own power. So I think your Adam/Eve analogy can have relevance, however I would call the willful serpent the 44 maiden, Adam and Eve 25.6, and the Tree of Life 25, and those who partake of it 25.1. The Tree of Knowledge was 44's bait, promise and temptation: "for you shall be as gods" - Myth Men and Women.

 

[sooo]

The 44 serpent is also illustrated with Lilith.

 

[sooo]

Lilith (1892) by John Collier in Southport Atkinson Art Gallery

 

[sooo]

But, since Lilith was made from earth, like Adam was, that would make her natural. Since Eve was made from Adam's rib, that would make her unnatural (Myth Woman). Adam's first wife, Lilith, tricked them for their betrayal, which is pretty natural for a betrayed wife. Mythology always has a twist.

 

[anemos]

But 34 does have excess right there, to use without ceremony.

yes, that's what made me see the potential of being unnatural .It started from h17 and the image of the motionless thunder in the lake... it preoccupies me for some time now ( i had a reading with 17). Mentally I understand it but emotionally it is disturbing ... i even tried to paint it but without success.

h17 is winder time, the lake is maybe frozen and the thunder is resting but in my mind I felt the thunder trapped. It was after responding to your 17.1>45 reading that h17 image came again. I found it a beautiful reading , it was like I could see again the resting thunder... so I asked myself "what kind of thunder is the one I felt trapped ? " and hex 34 and the lack of ritual popped into mind.

You asked "but why?" and I "heard" : "just cuz" and then Trojan's comment maybe it more loud. 25.1 vs 25.6 create an intense polarity , a strong "either /or" it pull you to one way or another... tense... but after the "just cuz".. in my mind that thing collapsed and somehow those two lines were connected /became one. It felt like a duality ceased to exist , not because there is not a valid dilemma , just something bigger than it embrace it. I 'saw" earth holding in her hands the lake and show it to heaven, like we see in church or in "offerings" rituals... I thought also about adam/eve and the split reflected in 25>45... and in a strange way it ceased exist - again...

I suspect that what i say are very personal association and maybe not very Yi related... and I'm sure that while writing I have shut off my left brain. hahaha.

I hear what you and rosada say about 44... its possible, yes . I feel with my gut that tense and duality again so maybe its the correct answer.. need to think more about it ...

 

[anemos]

It took me a while to write so i lost your "Lilith" posts

question : What "unnatural " means ? artificial or un- natural as against the natural laws, the timing ?

this is why I said earlier that it felt like lines 1 & 6 asking the q " what time it is ? "

Was thinking also Trojan's line path and have been trying to see what is common in those four lines... what I saw in all of them was " be present", despite the external situation , either you are a leader of follower, knowing where you go or not.. just be present.

 

[rosada]

Random thought...

25.1 Fool me once shame on you
25.6 Fool me twice shame on me.

 

[sooo]

What does the opposite of 25 seem like to you, what kind of unnatural? That's the kind I was asking thoughts on. To me, Myth Man illustrates what I mean my unnatural, the opposite of 25. The 44 was only half kidding, but the Adam and Eve myth brings what is really natural and what is man or woman made, especially when the often absent Lilith makes her appearance and is recognized as Adam's original wife, born of earth, as Adam was, which brings to question the view of Eve being an appendage and construct of Adam, like Myth Man, who is unnatural.

I'm not attempting to answer a question so much as exploring the symbolism involved. Holistically, each figure represents a feature we possess.

 

[anemos]

The Split, the Fall, feels like the spring of the unnatural - that which is missing ( the absent) and that which is a human artifact ( the present)- the duality, the either/or . H25 comes after h24 - the return to the home, the return of the light , new cycles etc... , and we move from 23 to 24 through 23.6 ; the threshold

seems that the unnatural is in every hex, including 25 and maybe this is what makes it natural. C'est la vie... in 64 episodes


eta : source

 

[rosada]

If every line of a hexagram is changed into it's opposite I would think the resultant hexagram could be considered the Opposite Hexagram. In the case of 25. Innocence if every line changes then the opposite hexagram is 46. Pushing Upward.

The first thing that jumps out at me when looking at 46. Pushing Upward is the fact that Pushing Upward represents an act of will and that the superior man in the image "heaps up small things in order to achieve something", that is, his efforts are directed towards a purpose. If 46 is the opposite of 25 then this underscores the part in 25.Innocence about doing things without a conscious purpose.

rosada

 

[sooo]

If every line of a hexagram is changed into it's opposite I would think the resultant hexagram could be considered the Opposite Hexagram. In the case of 25. Innocence if every line changes then the opposite hexagram is 46. Pushing Upward.

If every line of a hexagram is changed into it's opposite I would think the resultant hexagram could be considered the Opposite Hexagram.

you are master of the obvious :bows:

And bringing in the absence of conscious purpose.. is key, I think. Hence the unexpected.