Never More Baffled: Hexagram 2.6 to Hexagram 23

[precision grace]

Oh I know exactly where you are coming from. Totally understand. And why wouldn't there have to be something in it for you? What's the point otherwise? When we have to parent our parents, we do it from the sense of self-preservation, otherwise we wouldn't bother. Empathy in people like us develops from a need to protect ourselves and then as the time goes on, we forget this and think we are going around saving other people, but all along, all we are doing, is trying to save that little us who didn't have responsible parents. Mental. But there you go. Anyhow. We are all grown ups now, thank goodness I hope you figure it out and get that proper,mutually supportive relationship you always wanted. I hope I do too

 

[arabella]

Oh I know exactly where you are coming from. Totally understand. And why wouldn't there have to be something in it for you? What's the point otherwise? When we have to parent our parents, we do it from the sense of self-preservation, otherwise we wouldn't bother. Empathy in people like us develops from a need to protect ourselves and then as the time goes on, we forget this and think we are going around saving other people, but all along, all we are doing, is trying to save that little us who didn't have responsible parents. Mental. But there you go. Anyhow. We are all grown ups now, thank goodness I hope you figure it out and get that proper,mutually supportive relationship you always wanted. I hope I do too

Yes, this is the point of the counseling bit -- to say once and for all: this isn't my responsibility, this isn't my job, i'm not the big rubber ear on the wall that everybody can pour their troubles into. I have that much figured out. It's totally in there, embedded. But then it must be put into practice and there lies the tricky part. Since going through the process of identifying where my need to "save" people came from [and generally, far from saving them you only make them worse] this is the first great test of what I have learned. All of the small practical tests have worked out great and I feel soooooo much better. But this is the biggy -- can I be realistic, can I maintain, when faced with a very large human being who better know how to hold up his end of things.

My sense is that he does. And without any prompting. The reality isn't clear yet. If I get through this without falling on my face, I'll have it figured out. I'll have won the battle of a lifetime. Suffice it to say, taking this on at the same time as moving countries [again] and closing up the past, is quite a challenge.

The other thing, just came to mind, in the parenting your parent loop is that you get convinced that all kinds of things are "love" that just aren't. They are your need to BE loved and you project that onto everything. It's really tough when you're an adult to look at what you actually should have had in childhood versus what you got and extrapolate from there what real love should be like. It's something I've never had. I assume when you come across it the difference will be apparent -- but who knows. This remains to be seen, but will be illuminating if it ever turns up. If it does, I'll take a mental/emotional snapshot right away -- because it will be a first -- one for the album.

 

[precision grace]

Amen to all that. I don't have the healthy love thing figured out just yet. I mean, I can't recognise it when it's given. Assuming it is given at all?! Eff if I know if anyone loves me. I mean, intellectually, I figure some people must do. Like family etc. That's perfectly easy. But romantic involvements, friendships etc. - not a clue.Sometimes I think it doesn't matter, but it does. Because I reckon I can't be properly complete until I can experience the feeling of being loved. It happened with some friends in a last year, particularly good hugs (I love a good hug) and it was so awesome. But then - I have no idea what are you meant to do beyond that. I do get it from my cats though. They love me. I can feel it. We are good. People..that's the tricky bit.

 

[Lavalamp]

Well maybe the problem isn't that you allowed yourself to "fall into empathy." Maybe the problem is it was with the wrong kind of person. Because someone who could say, sacrifice some part of themselves in order to help you, wasn't going to bail on you but was willing to stick around, such a one might be worthy of the depth of giving that you are capable of.

Just a thought.

- LL

 

[ginnie]

Nobody in the vicinity escapes harm

He has been fighting himself, his own soul, for a long while -- in relation to this and other things. ... It certainly doesn't make or break my life -- but it may make or break his -- is the way I see it.

Once I got trapped in a dicey situation when one guy challenged another guy and I didn't understand what was developing and get away from there quickly enough. As a slow-moving innocent bystander, I was severely injured, and Yi told me later it had been a 2.6 situation.

If he has been fighting his own soul for a long time, then he might be both dragons. Or some situation might arise between him and another man. Anyway, Yi seems to be suggesting to you that you stay well away from him. Blood spurting purple and yellow -- or whatever the two colors are translated as -- the point is that nobody in the vicinity escapes harm, when dragons like this do battle in the wild.

As a warning, I'd take it awfully seriously.

But it's true that the I Ching cannot say the intensity and the duration of what will happen. I know that some 2.6 situations are rather mild and just have to do with wrangling between men and women over who is right and who is wrong -- that is, about power -- who is going to have power over whom.

 

[ginnie]

There was something very smug about Lord Suchabody and he had a proprietary air that bothered me. He was opening and going through cupboards that it was obvious had been closed for years, even had cobwebs. I was horrified.

As well you might be. According to my dream dictionary, to see cupboards in a dream is indicative of pleasure and comfort -- or penury and distress, as depicted by the condition of the cupboards and what's in them.

I'm going to spare everybody any attempt on my part to interpret that dream, but I bet if you had found the cupboards full of beautiful tea cups you wouldn't have been horrified.

 

[arabella]

Well maybe the problem isn't that you allowed yourself to "fall into empathy." Maybe the problem is it was with the wrong kind of person. Because someone who could say, sacrifice some part of themselves in order to help you, wasn't going to bail on you but was willing to stick around, such a one might be worthy of the depth of giving that you are capable of.

Just a thought.

- LL

Yes, that is definitely true -- twice a totally inappropriate person with bad motives. And until you establish the real motives, you just don't know who you're dealing with. This is exactly what I'm learning now, making sure I have the right person first.

 

[arabella]

Sorry if I'm confusing everyone, but I thought of the best question of all, so I've deleted the ones I'd asked above. Instead, please contemplate this one:

What is the result if I allow him to meet me abroad?

Hexagram 7.2 becoming Hexagram 2.

Sounds very business-like. I have thought, in fact, that he is contemplating buying my house in France as an investment since, for him, that amount of money is something of a pittance and the price is very good. Maybe that is the point.

 

[arabella]

Got myself a bit tangled up on this thread last night. Had cast two things and associated the wrong one with this thread. But now it is sorted out and I've put the proper information here -- which is actually somewhat intriguing. Maybe our association is turning into a business deal?

In which case he is definitely the dragon -- very serious, well-connected City man. And I'd imagine all of the colours of blood and implied battles are his and relate somehow to the FTSE. Which if you aren't from the UK means he is the ultimate financial wizard of the investment world. FTSE is like Wall Street in the USA. Doesn't that seem somehow connected with Hexagram 7? A major institution? Serious organisational abilities?

Other possibility I see, reading some of the commentaries on this, is that if I can't ditch my skepticism, the situation has no possibility of working out. Wow, huge disparity between those two interpretations!! Any thoughts?

 

[arabella]

Curiosity is Killing Me

I asked a further question: Does his wanting to meet me have to do with buying my home?

Casting: Hexagram 59.5 becoming Hexagram 4.

I can seriously say, I've never had this casting before in my life. Definitely has to do with the king's residence. Who is the king? Him I would imagine, rather than me.

I know he's not happy where he is, in his house on the mountain, but my house in France doesn't seem like an answer. Perhaps he wants me to take him around to see about other places? And where does Hexagram 4 fit in?

 

[precision grace]

Plus you were showing around his house in your dream. Could be.. is it worth asking him if that is what he is interested in? Look, this guy sounds great. If it doesn't work out between you two, could you give him my number (btw house in the mountain? are you up in Scotland or Lake District?)

but seriously Arabella, stop tying yourself in knots over this. I think even Yi is saying that to you with 59.5 > 4
this is Lise's commentary on that line: Don't bother too much about all those big things happening around you, take care of your life and needs according to your own ethics. Very often the rest will follow. Trying to answer to something else, which lies beyond your immediate understanding, will seldom bring any solution. Your own simple, direct view is often the clearest one.

I think you should just stop over thinking this and go with whatever feels right to you. xx

 

[arabella]

State of Tizz

Yes, I've backed way off the state of tizz i was in about this visiting abroad stuff. There is a lot else to think about without worrying one iota about this guy. My psychologist pal says, let him go along and visit, see what he's made of and gauge his expectations versus mine. If he doesn't behave, show him the door. Easy enough.

Meanwhile, I'm planning my own life as though that's all there is -- because that's actually true. I want what's in my control to happen on time, profitably, and with the best longterm result. This is my responsibility. So get that right first, and after that.....blue sky.

 

[dancing white ferret]

I see 2.6 as you cannot be open to everlasting possibilities...I get that idea from Hialrys book....i think

hex 2 is open/receptive...but it reaches its limit in line 6. sometimes it good to have all options open but other times it drains your blood away as you struggle with choices...or he does

staring at the fruit on the tree...not wanting to pick one because then you can't have the other one, unable to choose...in the end starving because while you were wanting to keep the choice open as to which fruit, it withered away on the tree

not a perfect analogy but you get the idea.....choosing one thing excludes another so people may want to always remain in the realm of untried possibility...but it doesn't work here

perhaps

how it applies i don't know
quoted from Trojan

I just wanted to share my experience with this line, and it has been similar to what Trojan is describing. I think this may be pointing to a very dualistic person, who has strong yet ambivalent feelings about what they want. I got this same line about an ex who was very divided, and not just about what they wanted with me. I believe the question I asked was, "How does X feel about the relationship?" They would change their mind about career moves, where they wanted to live, what religion they were practicing etc. on a weekly basis, and what they wanted from me... Didn't realize just how dualistic this person was until almost a year into it. They always expressed such passion about whatever the decision du jour was, so it made it difficult to see it coming... I thought they were just maybe going through a transition when I first began to see this about them. They even had 2 distinctly different sides to their personality, and I wasn't introduced to the side that was all screwed up until like 9 months into it after I had already moved in with them. Was totally kicking myself, too, because my cards were all pointing to this other side all along, and I saw that. But I felt like I knew them so well, and did not even think this was possible. I kept looking for alternate meanings because I thought, "Well, it can't be that." Well, it could, and it was. I hope it is not that extreme, but you get the idea. That has just been my experience with this line. So, I do see Trojan's take on this as a distinct possibility here. Ambivalence and indecision. Some people just can't make a darn decision... I think I could have had something light hearted with this person, and wish now we had just decided on a friendship. There was some value in the relationship. We did have a lot of fun together, some great conversation, etc. So, with that said, I hope it works out well for you. Best wishes...

 

[arabella]

Yes, this is my fear too -- the side nobody shows you. I've had two serious relationships in my life [and lots of dates and the rest with other people]. But two that were heart-rending in one way or another. And both of these were psychos in a personal realtionship. I knew them another way in the first place. One as a brilliant student, college sweetheart, who became a brilliant clinical psychologist -- and then ended up completely bonkers and died as a young man. Waited a long while to try anything again. As a theatrical producer got involved with the most amazing performer I'd every met, world class, household name in his genre. Complete nut case as a human being. This guy I know now seems more balanced. But, as has been proven -- what the heck do I know? He could be an axe murderer based on my track record. On the surface -- devoted to his kids and his religious faith, extremely successful in his career, great friend and neighbour, terrific fun to be with, footloose and fancy-free and knows how to show you a good time. BUT I worry about this "other side" -- the one people don't show you. And, as Trojan has pointed out, it isn't OK to send out confused signals. Not if you're grieving, pondering, planning, or anything else. You have a responsibility to other people to be clear in your intentions. And he isn't. So, on that basis, as i've thought about it overnight, I've decided nothing of what he is doing or saying matters. It is meaningless unless he gets a bull horn and starts making public announcements of what's up with him and then following on with real action. Otherwise, it's me and me in this situation. Because that's who i really have to rely upon.

Thanks for putting your oar in mighty ferret. Much appreciated.

 

[dancing white ferret]

Yer welkum... I have the same track record. 3 out of 4 of my major relationships have been with Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde types. One a nice normal person 3 out of 4 weeks of the month. But he would have some sort of manstruation break down once a month, and become a nasty obsessive psycho with a persecution complex. I've learned to recognize the red flags. One of which is my attraction...

 

[arabella]

Yer welkum... I have the same track record. 3 out of 4 of my major relationships have been with Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde types. One a nice normal person 3 out of 4 weeks of the month. But he would have some sort of manstruation break down once a month, and become a nasty obsessive psycho with a persecution complex. I've learned to recognize the red flags. One of which is my attraction...

Yes, it's not very reassuring is it? I'm thinking of getting a dog, a goldfish -- maybe A FERRET!!

 

[precision grace]

hahaha sorry to laugh but that last bit was hilarious. i do sometimes worry that I can only be attracted to nutters too. like, if they are not a bit mad, they are boring, but trouble with mad people is that...well..they are mad.

 

[arabella]

hahaha sorry to laugh but that last bit was hilarious. i do sometimes worry that I can only be attracted to nutters too. like, if they are not a bit mad, they are boring, but trouble with mad people is that...well..they are mad.

Well, what I've learned in the past year is that there are clear reasons these people are appealing, that they are always the ones turning up and you don't want the "boring" ones. Part of it can be that they remind you of somebody, a familiar somebody, and it makes you feel kind of "at home." I grew up with things being smashed, knives thrown and "sproooonging" in the kitchen lineoleum as an expression of frustration. Undue physical punishment, etc. It's what you recognise. Frankly, a lot of it i put aside as "poorly informed" parenting. But, it sticks to your psyche much more profoundly than that and you have to take that into consideration -- your young self was damaged -- or it's forever in the closest and controlling the background.

I know that now. The closet is illuminated. It's not coincidental that these maniacs keep turning up. They know how to find me and i know how to find them and let them in. But now there will be no more of this. Mr. Boring is my ideal man. And I say that as a joke. I want people in my life who are reliable, who do what they say and have good intentions, as I do. No more enigmatic, nor more "genius" who deserves enough rope to hang himself. No. Now we play a straight game and all cards on the table.

 

[dancing white ferret]

It's common. Yes, I've actually made a conscious effort to be more receptive to men that I originally don't feel much "chemistry" with. I don't think this is actually the case. That there is a lack of compatibility. I just don't think I have much experience with this type of character, so I don't have anything to connect them to. So, they just don't really register on my radar. I've got tons of experience with the nutters, so of course if an attractive one comes around, they're all over my radar. It's largely just a conditioned response though. They just fit in with the old pattern.

So, I'm using logic. If they have a fairly stable life, are decent looking, etc. etc., I keep an open mind, even if I don't feel sparks right off. Trying to get some experience with some non crazies and rewire my brain to find someone sane attractive. And if I feel infatuated straight off, well, actually feel a little suspicious of my feelings. Might be a bad sign, so I'm just cautious there now. It's difficult, too, because nutters can be very good with first impressions, and steal the show from the nice guy in the background. Some people are just charming and very charismatic. Doesn't mean they'll be a good partner. As it seems we have all learned the hard way.

 

[dragona]

Uhm, have to say did not read everything...a lot about empathy and anger and dualism I can relate to, but you actually don`t NEED this guy to come along - he offered to acompany you because he wishes to, right? So it is all about benevollence anyway...if he is making a compromise, it is only fair you make some too..as long as those are of the kind you can live with, battle in the field can stay opened..but the notion that he is not essential but comes as an possible pleasent bonus, should add power to your stride and make you act more easy.... men like that, i think.

 

[precision grace]

Update from Arabella about this http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=15236&page=2

 

[arabella]

OK, and look what Trojan said here, first crack out of the box -- bloody brilliant is it not?
This is the guy in SPADES!

I see 2.6 as you cannot be open to everlasting possibilities...I get that idea from Hialrys book....i think


hex 2 is open/receptive...but it reaches its limit in line 6. sometimes it good to have all options open but other times it drains your blood away as you struggle with choices...or he does

staring at the fruit on the tree...not wanting to pick one because then you can't have the other one, unable to choose...in the end starving because while you were wanting to keep the choice open as to which fruit, it withered away on the tree

not a perfect analogy but you get the idea.....choosing one thing excludes another so people may want to always remain in the realm of untried possibility...but it doesn't work here

 

[arabella]

In actual fact, this is about a person who can't move on. And I think Trojan has targeted exactly how he can't move on -- it's about "option preservation" -- and isn't it fascinating the guy is a City man, stockbroker, investor, wants to know how it turns out before he commits. May work that way on the stock market, I don't know, but not usually possible in life, you do the best you can. Interesting to realise that he will end up with nothing.