Nightmare, dream interpretation 38.1.3.5.6>28. Please help!

[tubinluv]

I had a nightmare. I saw that my husband was dressed up and was about to go out. I asked him where he was going but he didn't say anything. I asked him again and said that why has he been going out a lot lately, is there someone else in his life? He didn't say much but reluctantly nodded. I felt like he was at a crossroad, he didn't say it straight out but there was some reluctance. I started crying and said how could he do that? How could he leave after what we've built up for all these years. I woke up from crying....I'm so scared. I asked Yi if This was going to happen What does this dream mean? (I've had dreams that actually happened, not all and that's why I'm nervous). I got 38.1.3.5.6>28.

Line 1- lost horse, no running after it, it will return by itself.
Line 3- the cart deranged back, the oxen stopped, hair and nose cut off, not a good beginning but a good end.
Line 5- your ancestors/your companion bites through the flesh. How could it go wrong?
Line 6- one see companions as pigs and dirt, first he he draws a bow, then put it down. When rain comes, there will be good fortune.
I'm not sure how to tie all these pieces together. Line 3 can be a horrendous experience. There's also the relating hex 28. I've also read from Alfred huang's rule of interpretation is that when you have 4 changing lines then use the topmost unchanged line. I'm quite confused which rule to use and how to put in this in a story that makes sense.
Any help in this interpretation is greatly appreciated.

 

[Liselle]

Oh dear.

For all the "badness" in that reading, each line seems to end well: Horse runs off > comes back. Draws a bow > puts it down. Etc. A lot of "bad start, good ending." Of course no one wants the bad starts at all...

You sort of asked two questions in one: (a) is this going to happen, (b) what does the dream mean.

A stray (and rather amusing) thought is, maybe Yi's telling you the end of the dream, that you didn't see because you woke up. (I realize this was a nightmare, it's just amusing to think of Yi conducting story-time, reading the last chapter out loud.)

If it does pertain to real life, the same general stuff might apply. Rocky starts, good endings and so forth. Are you and your husband having any problems at all? Now might be a good time to deal with them. Except...

...caveat - and this is, as you say, hard to tie together - line 1 says "no running after it." How to combine that with line 5? Could there be a way to do the "biting through" very very gently and unobtrusively, so that it won't look the least bit like "running after" and won't draw any attention?

(I don't know you and your husband, of course, and interpretations of dreams and readings are tricky, so any/all of this could be completely wrong.)

Another possibility, which has nothing to do with your marriage, is perhaps Yi's just talking about the dream as a dream, or your reaction to it. Something like, "A dream / this dream is something 'from another planet' (38) brought on by stress (28). Don't chase it (over-analyze it, line 1). Yes it was a horrible dream (line 3), but real life is fine. Go on with your day and your fright will dissipate (line 5*)." We've probably all had bad dreams that ruined the next day but didn't play out in real life.

(Again, all of this is speculation about how the reading might apply. It's a sincere effort, but I can't possibly know for sure. It's hard to interpret even one's own readings, much less someone else's...)



* Hilary translates line 5 as "Regrets vanish. Your ancestor bites through the skin. Why would going on be wrong?" which (a) includes the phrase "regrets vanish," and (b) perhaps suggests more explicitly that you should just "go on"? But - of course - no author's translation or commentary is addressing you specifically. Interpretation is always an alchemy between your particular situation and question, and the text.

I don't know which translation you're quoting, but if you have access to more than one, it's a good idea to look at several. You'll get a more well-rounded idea of the line. Here's a couple good, free-of-charge translations that Hilary recommends:

• Yi Jing, Oracle of the Sun by LiSe Heyboer
• The Book of Changes, Volume 1 by Bradford Hatcher (scroll a bit down the page for the download link; it's a zipped pdf)

 

[Liselle]

Oh, you asked about Alfred Huang's rule. I don't know (sorry) - I've never used it and have no feel for how helpful or accurate it is.

 

[Liselle]

Another thought - it's probably important that line 5 says "ancestor" bites through, rather than just "bites through." After all, this is a line of hexagram 38 - Yi didn't give you hexagram 21 as your answer.

From what you wrote down, "ancestor" might also be translated as "companion." If it was my reading, I might concentrate on this line. It's one of two lines (line 1 is the other) that might seem most like instructions, and line 1 seems more straightforward.

I think I'd try to read as many translations (first of all) and discussions of this line as possible. Maybe write all the translations down in a list, and note the similarities and differences.

Have you used the lovely Clarity hexagram search?
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/hexresults/?nr=38&lines=0000010

Also, I just used the Quick Search box under the magnifying glass on the right hand side of the menu - typed in "ancestor bites" without the quotes - and got two results including this one: blog post by Hilary. In it, she mentions that 38.5 by itself changes to hexagram 10, treading behind a tiger. So...what is a tiger, and what could it mean to tread behind one...a tiger is something dangerous that could eat you, but it's also a powerful animal, and if you can avoid being eaten you might gain something from the power. (10's Oracle: 'Treading a tiger’s tail. It does not bite people. Creating success.')

What is the "tiger" in your subject? Perhaps that's obviously, "my husband leaving me," if that makes sense to you? But if you can successfully tread behind that tiger, it might strengthen trust? << speculation, but could 38.6, a different line in your reading, be about trust?

Hilary has also dug into Chinese characters, and says

(And incidentally, there’s a Chinese word for ‘ancestor’, xian, that consists of the components ‘person’ and ‘footstep’.)

It could mean that an "ancestor" is the "footsteps" of a "person" - with ancestors, that's what you have, you don't have the person themselves.

What might that bring to mind?

• look to your husband's "track record"?
• is there any history of infidelity in your family or his, that might cause you to be fearful?
• did anything happen recently among friends, co-workers, acquaintances...books you've read, movies, news stories...have you been unusually inundated with stories of marriage problems, that might have gotten into your subconscious?

(The last two items - again, these are footprints you can see and might be affected by, but at a remove. Literal ancestors as well as metaphorical ones.)​

• ?
• ?

 

[tubinluv]

Hi liselle,
I'm out of the country so it's not easy to get internet access, but I'm very happy to see your responses. Thank you very much for taking the time and providing different possibilities.
I have the feeling this pertains to real life more than just another dream, I hope I'm wrong but the interesting part is I'm not a psychic nor my work has anything related to it, it's just that sometimes I have dreams about other people randomly and when I talked to them afterwards, they asked me how did I know about that. Yes... strange..
I looked up at the links you provided, I can't open the zip file from Bradford but Lise's interpretation for line 5 gives an interesting interpretation that someone needs to make an initial contact which can shape the future entirely in a different way, the key is if one has the guts to make that contact. Yours is also quite insightful as looking into the track record. In fact, there's infidelity from both my dad and his dad, this is something that I'm not very proud of about my dad but I guess back in his time where I was born, it was a common thing that men did and the women had to accept it. However, both sides never left their wives.
Line 6 does relate to trust issue, I'm just curious why do you think that you'd focus on lines 1 and 5 or it is your impression.
It's comforting to have line 1 and the lines are rough in the beginning but the outcome is positive, you'd agree with that as well then? I'm just nervous about line 3 and hex 28 as I need to gear up and wait for what's coming. You also mentioned treading the tiger in line 5. I was wondering:
- in general, do you look at the relating hex for each changing line?
- you said if I'm successful treading the tiger, so this is still up in the air and the outcome is whether I'll be bitten or not, is this correct?
Wow, so many challenges and hurdles to go through. Life is tough, isn't it&#55357;&#56842; ? But I'm grateful for your insights, it does help me to look into things more deeply.

Thanks a lot Liselle!

 

[suryauday]

As per my understanding 38.1.1.5.6>28 describes the entire process that you are going through and 38.6 is the end of that process, 28 is the advise given by the oracle. In a nutshell I feel there is nothing to worry you are seeing the situation in a very pessimistic manner and your husband is as good to you as you are to him. You are unnecessarily stressed by these thoughts.Please note that these are purely my interpretation and you may connect to your inner self to seek validation of this interpretation.I wish you all the best

 

[Liselle]

I'm just curious why do you think that you'd focus on lines 1 and 5 or it is your impression.

Yes, it's just my impression, simply because - to me - those two lines seem more like "things to do" (or NOT do, in the case of line 1 - don't chase / run after) and the other two lines seem like description (as you said, "rough in the beginning but the outcome is positive," and yes, I'd agree with that). Picking out lines 1 and 5 is just how I think I'd work with the reading if it was mine. It's not based on any rules such as Huang's that you mentioned. I've never tried rules like that.

I'm just nervous about line 3 and hex 28 as I need to gear up and wait for what's coming.

My knee-jerk reaction to seeing 28 as your relating hexagram is "well, of course this is stressful for you, you're worried your ridgepole/roof/life might collapse."

You also mentioned treading the tiger in line 5. I was wondering:
- in general, do you look at the relating hex for each changing line?

I try to. Those are called the "zhi guas." Zhi in Chinese (if I understand correctly) is a possessive. So in the case of line 5, with the zhi gua of hexagram 10, it means something like "38's 10," or "Opposing's Treading" - how hexagrams 38 and 10 interact, or what happens when they interact. Every hexagram in the I Ching interacts in some way with every other hexagram, via the moving lines. In this case, the moving line that connects hexagram 38 with hexagram 10 is the 5th line of 38.

A lot of the time (most of the time, even) I can't figure out what all the zhi guas are saying or contributing. In this case, after reading the things I mentioned, an idea popped to mind - doesn't mean it's "correct," it was just an idea.

- you said if I'm successful treading the tiger, so this is still up in the air and the outcome is whether I'll be bitten or not, is this correct?

This was (a) a reading, about (b) a dream - so it's a couple layers removed from actual real life. Since you've had uncanny experiences with dreams before, it's perhaps more likely it's significant and not "just a bad dream." Still, when divinatory symbols are stacked on top of other divinatory symbols, you could look at it as a double reinforcement of a message, but also maybe as something that's even harder to interpret accurately. (Have you ever thought you knew exactly what an I Ching reading meant, and then found out in real life your interpretation was wrong?)

But I do still think the reading overall is saying you won't be eaten. You'll be terrified, and perhaps nibbled at--- oh wait, line 3, "noses cut off" - nibbled at? Anyway - perhaps nibbled at or a bite out of you, but my best guess is not "eaten."

(I certainly hope that's right. But I've had experiences in this forum where I made what I thought was a sensible, coherent interpretation for someone, and they actually came back and told us the real-life outcome - which is very much appreciated, hint hint - and my interpretation bore no resemblance to the actual outcome. Ouch.)

 

[Liselle]

Oh - are you a member of WikiWing?
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/shop/wikiwing/

I find WikiWing to be really lovely and useful - people post their actual experiences with lines and hexagrams, and Hilary has included extra information as well as some seed-thoughts for each zhi gua. (She explains it very well at that link.) And she's helpfully made it about as inexpensive to join as she possibly can.

 

[tubinluv]

Thanks suryaudy for your input. I do hope that I'm worried too much and it may turn out not that bad.

Dear Liselle, yes I'm worried about line 3 and hex 28, my experience with 28 had been quite rough but I don't recall the impact of it as a relating hex. I am a member of wikiwing and you're right, I find Hilary's interpretation is easy to relate to and the experiences with each moving line is quite helpful. There was a post on line 3 something like they Would never want to repeat the experience although it turned out fine..ouch..
Line 5 is quite interesting though, it was more like stay away or walk away from that tiger, this is not something I would have interpreted, but the experience does count.
Do you personally have any experiences with these lines?
To answer your question, I never considered I knew exactly what Yi was saying and turned out my interpretation was wrong. I think it's quite difficult to be 100% or even 90% sure, what I love about Yi is it's not just giving you the potential outcome but the beauty of is it also advises you which path to take if you really want to "do the right thing". Many times in my experience, it's inevitable to avoid circumstances which I confessed I've tried that , I would ask how to avoid certain incident as described in some moving lines and I thought I could have avoided it, but I couldn't. As I got a little more experienced with Yi's advice, I did ask if I had the courage/strength/knowledge/wisdom to overcome certain challenges then Yi would tell me something like "no".. yah, I tried . However at other times, I'm quite grateful for Yi's advice because in hindsight, things would have gotten quite difficult or I would say not pleasant if I had followed my own will.
Thank you again for your response.

 

[Liselle]

One other thing - when I hinted around about updating with the outcome - obviously this is a sensitive subject, and obviously only tell us as much or as little as you feel comfortable with.

(Glad you're in WikiWing!)

 

[tubinluv]

Wait..sorry, your question was clear but my making was clouded . The answer is yes, one recent example was with 10uc. I posted it in https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?16311-Your-Experiences-with-Unchanging -Castings-Hexagram-10.
There were a few where I felt the answer could have gone either way, I picked one way and it turned out the other way, so yes, that's a good point Liselle, Yi's answer is so vague that your interpretation could be completely wrong in hindsight. Thank you!

 

[tubinluv]

Yes, I do try to provide updates. I did with some questions I had in the past, I will try to give update on this one. Thanks for the hint !
Btw, do you have any personal experience with lines 3 and 5 that you can share?
Thanks

 

[Liselle]

Btw, do you have any personal experience with lines 3 and 5 that you can share?

About one minute ago, actually.

I made a really bad blunder recently, which could have potential for serious consequences. I've been wondering how to handle it. One option might have been to telephone the other involved person and ask her if she'd be willing to drop it and not escalate it further.

I asked Yi, "What could I expect if I phoned X?"
38.3 > 14

Hilary's translation, which is slightly different from the one you quoted:
'Seeing the cart dragged back,
The oxen stopped
Your men branded and their noses cut off.
With no beginning, there is an end.'

As an answer, that would read, "If you phone X, you can expect many bad things." (I won't phone her!) But what about the last line? I'm thinking it might mean that if I don't begin anything, it will end (on its own). Phoning would be "beginning something."

In your reading, doesn't that seem to go nicely with line 1: don't chase this, don't start anything?

---

LiSe's commentary on the same line:

All people are different. One can make an issue of it, a straight discussion, and in the end someone will be injured. One can make a lighthearted repartee and it will be a mutual pleasure. The same starting point, but the outcome depends on the road one chooses, the road of being put in the right or the road of interesting exchange.

My blunder just happened to occur in a somewhat lighthearted atmosphere. I actually think I made the blunder because of the lightheartedness - I had lowered my defenses and instincts. But, if I called this person purposely on the phone to beg her not to do anything, that would not be lighthearted at all, and, says Yi and LiSe, would end badly for me.

I don't know if the lighthearted/serious contrast applies with you, but does LiSe's general point resonate?

 

[tubinluv]

I'd like to update my experience with these lines. The dream i had actually became a reality. Line 3 - the cart deranged back, the oxen stopped, hair and nose cut off, you name it, it was a horrendous experience, i actually broke down one night that i couldn't stop crying, but i have to move on, biting through this unbearable pain. I think i was bitten by the tiger! (line 5)

I think line 1 in this case is despite what i had gone through, he's still around.

I'm still going through the pain now and i'm just so lost!