Shall I soon start to look for another job? Hex 4.2>23

[MrKind]

Sorry for the typos. Last thing, Trojina let me give you an example how a typical conversation goes. We go out for lunch /two guys and me/ and one starts some negative talk how he is having a bad day (another one ), okay so I recognise that say something about it to acknowledge that and wind him up sometimes, try to change the topic and start talking about how I want to install a new floor in my flat and how I'm looking for a decent materials etc etc then the other one starts saying how the people in this country just want to use you, how all Carpenters are full of sh* and what not. Okay so I change the topic again and talk about the fact I'm looking for a new flat and then he again breaks in saying how I should do something to make sure I can fuc* over my landlords to have some leverage against them because they will probably try to defraud me and how he has this approach that in situations like this he always makes sure he will cheat the other person not the other way around... Then we get back to our desks with the girls being similar. And this goes on day after day can u see how it can get draining for someone like me who feels it all 300% more than a "normal" person?

 

[MrKind]

To conclude I want to say that I get it what the I ching is trying to say, and I will do my best to not divide myself in that team (after all it was mostly due to me to connect with the new guys and stop the "small cliques" method that was prevalent in the past there), whether this will be any good, we will see. Most people are on the middle./neutral side of the spectrum in terms of development or purity of their hearts. It's just those on the lower side that make the atmosphere bad.

 

[Trojina]

...selecting bits of posts.

you see with my empathy it is like I download the whole energetic spectrum of the person the second I meet them. I literally know where they are at life, what emotions they felt in recent years were dominant, where they are heading

Erm...ahem how do you know that you know ? Do you check it out with them ? Do you ask them about these things to see if your perceptions are correct ? You say you know where they are in life but can you know unless you are God posting as Mr Kind ? I mean yes we have intuitions about people and so on but what you describe is something else.

This somewhat works. But I have no idea how to shield myself from their energies. It's not possible as I tried a lot of things... the only thing that somehow worked is to transform the energy there [not by trying to convince the wolf he is a sheep ]

Perhaps rather than seek to 'shield' yourself from their energies it may serve better to alter your beliefs somewhat about your susceptibility to toxicity and energetic infection from people ? Sure there is something to it, this energy transfer stuff, other people do affect us, but I wonder, given the 13.2 whether your belief that you are somehow 'cursed' or gifted by being an empath only segregates you from other people ?

I have no idea you keep mentioning New Age, you have some sort of a grudge on it? Must be because I haven't mentioned it even once and I don't see a connection.

Your beliefs stem from/are influenced by the New Age movement so yes you mention it. You don't use the word 'new age' but your beliefs about how you get infected by people's energy, stuff about needing to 'shield ' yourself, the whole thing about only being around positivity it's all new age stuff.


Now not everything new age is to be dismissed, after all many would say the way we write of Yi here is pretty new agey but it can help to be aware of the basis of your beliefs about how energies work between people and so on..

So no I have no grudge as such. A grudge is an unreasoned harbouring of resentment. I have thought about this stuff, have reasoned about it , had reason to think about it quite carefully, about the various new age position on things in order to discern where it's really coming from. Sometimes it's not actually, when you see the root of it, coming from a very good place at all.

One particular concern about some new age philosophies, in particular the whole 'you create your own reality' angle is how it can result in people actually avoiding ill people or troubled people in case they get 'infected' by their 'energies'. You can see how this could be described in 13.2 where there is shame at the temple. The temple, spirituality, is not meant to be a place where people feel superior to other people because they are more 'clean' or 'pure' and so on and so on. Some of the ways of thinking you have described just remind me a little of things I have come across in some new age publications.

I just don't fancy being forced to spend 8.5 hours every day with negative people who would stab me in the back with mere occasion presenting itself. That's not new age, that's just common sense. That's all.

Yes that's right it is common sense. What you say here has nothing to do with these people's lifestyles or health habits or level of spiritual evolution it's just well you don't want to be with them as they are a pain in butt. My point was why not just admit that to yourself than worry about shielding from toxicity, that might separate you from them either further.

Plus with that empathetic gift/curse I have, I already know what sort of energies I would be getting from them. Thank you, but no

To be an empath means you feel what other's are feeling. You haven't said that all ? You haven't said you feel X's toothache or Y's loneliness you have only spoken about shielding yourself which makes me wonder if what you really mean is that you are a sensitive person, like a sponge, soaking up atmosphere ?

let me give you an example how a typical conversation goes. We go out for lunch /two guys and me/ and one starts some negative talk how he is having a bad day (another one ��), okay so I try to change the topic and start talking about how I want to install a new floor in my flat and how I'm looking for a decent materials etc etc

...okay let's break this down as it's quite interesting. Of course I don't have the body language to read or the impact of how it felt to be there at the time but just looking at what was said

One guy tells you he's having a bad day. You feel that is 'negative talk' and so talk about your flooring ? Why ? As I read it it sounds like you refusing to acknowledge his bad day and just going on to flooring. Like this ?

...I wasn't there so I can't judge but looking at the words only to see, as an exercise what might be happening, from a fly on the wall POV

then the other one starts saying how the people in this country just want to use you, how all Carpenters are full of sh* and what not. Okay so I change the topic again and talk about the fact I'm looking for a new flat and then he again breaks in saying how I should do something to make sure I can fuc* over my landlords to have some leverage against them because they will probably try to defraud me and how he has this approach that in situations like this he always makes sure he will cheat the other person not the other way around

…


... could it be they would like you not to change the topic but take on board what they are saying ? Every work place has it's own culture and sometimes people do bond a great deal through complaining. That is definitely part of UK culture because complaining about something external puts you all together in the same boat, you immediately have something in common. I don't suppose it is so much different in Ireland, well I have Irish neighbours who I bond with via complaining ..it's not meant to be harmful. If you are from another country could it be this is a cultural misunderstanding ?

Maybe it would help just to go along with their way for a while ?

I also wonder if some of what they say is an attempt to be protective of you ? I mean the guy who was warning you about worse case scenario with landlord, okay it might be a pain to hear, but maybe he perceives you as young or naïve, maybe he thinks it's his job to get you wise so you don't get screwed.


When I moved in here an old lady told me to get a chain on my door due to the drug dealer on my floor. She was being negative/scaring me since it wasn't really necessary but her intent was not to be negative but to

a. have something to talk to me about
b. be protective/friendly

And this goes on day after day can u see how it can get draining for someone like me who feels it all 300% more than a "normal" person?

Yes I see how it's draining and I don't mean to diminish how difficult it must be for you and sorry if I have given that impression, but these people still have lunch with you so actually you are still seen as a buddy ? People don't have lunch with enemies.


You could experiment with different ways of responding ? Try not saying anything at all....that's always interesting. It's amazing often people don't even notice when I don't say anything which just goes to show they were probably never listening anyway

To conclude I want to say that I get it what the I ching is trying to say, and I will do my best to not divide myself in that team

Well it sounds to me like they still seem to like you and see you as part of the team so that's a bonus. Let us know how you get on.



It is quite interesting when you report the conversations you have had as probably, reading them, different people would have very different perceptions of what's happening.

 

[MrKind]

Well, I really don't want to try and convince you of anything. It's not needed, nor do I want to. Nor do you want to be convinced. The main question is: if you were wrong, would you like to know?However, If you are interested in the scientific side of things, I recommend reading all from this shortexerpt from Heart math institute https://www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart/ which proves there's an strong electromagnetic field produces by human hearts, many times stronger than the one produced by the brain, that there's bigger communication going FROM the heart TO the brain than the other way around, and how emotional states are constantly being projected onto this field - which has a shape of a torus/vortex. I can only guess whether this is the same thing referred to as 'aura' in ancient traditions, or Chi/Qi/Prana etc... possibly. It fits my own experience as an empath. To be honest, it is nothing special and I am always surprised that most people don't feel everything the way I do. But to explain it to them is like trying to explain to the blind how the color blue looks like. Oh you know, it's the sky's colour... - you get my point.No, I don't need to be god to sense people. It feels like I was defending my own position. I don't need to, and I don't need you to believe me. It's okay that doesn't change a thing for anyone. With time, as with every skill, one learns and gains experience. I have never made a mistake in regards to the people yet. Never. [well, only when I deliberately lied to myself that I should trust someone I should not, going against my own perception/senses/intuition/call it how u want to call it. ] Did your eyes ever perceived the grass as blue? Of course not. Because percepetion is not a thing you do manually, it happens automatically by itself. And when youre working closely with people, you have a lot of opportunities to check everything. I've did a lot of crosschecks with other friends/colleagues, even did a brain scan years ago to exclude other possibilities. But you just rationalizing and want to deny anyway. So if you repulsing this idea that I have this sensitivity -[everyone has it, just the levels vary! you have a heart - you have it, depending on your own sensitivity and other factors] I am surprised you're using I Ching. As it is a direct interface with your higher self/the universe. How come you're using this new age'ish tool? I saw a New Age guru recommending I Ching. It must be phony then! See how easy is to undermine anything?and you Trojina have a good bit of anger in you

Perhaps rather than seek to 'shield' yourself from their energies it may serve better to alter your beliefs somewhat about your susceptibility to toxicity and energetic infection from people ? Sure there is something to it, this energy transfer stuff, other people do affect us, but I wonder, given the 13.2 whether your belief that you are somehow 'cursed' or gifted by being an empath only segregates you from other people ?

No, you are mistaken. Sorry. You stopping believing in sun doesn't mean it won't burn you if you don't put a suncream on your skin. (You like to add words here and there that often change the feeling of the sentence- for example "energetic infection" - that's pretty funny ) You see I learned that the things that I feel have a name and it is ''being an empath'' not so long ago. I was pretty clueless for all my life, always wondering what the hell is wrong with me. Now when I know, and I use this ''label'' people are mostly reacting in the way as you are - denying, rationalizing and sometimes ridiculing. Imagine a whole planet with deaf people, and there's 10% who can hear sounds. For them, hearing is pretty normal and nothing spectaular or metaphysical. Just another way of perceiving things. Another sense. However the rest can't grasp their idea. An NO, I don't write this due to having some sort of ''need to feel special'' because I heard such opinions too. People are funny.

Your beliefs stem from/are influenced by the New Age movement so yes you mention it. You don't use the word 'new age' but your beliefs about how you get infected by people's energy, stuff about needing to 'shield ' yourself, the whole thing about only being around positivity it's all new age stuff.

As far as I know new age is pretty young, and its a collage of much, much older ideas. but it's convenient to ridicule those ideas mixed up in the new age, because you think you can dump them all at once. unfortunately, its not that simple and things like life energy etc exists. You just projecting some things onto me for some reason.

but it can help to be aware of the basis of your beliefs about how energies work between people and so on..

Youre trying to put something in my mouth that is not true. I am not sure what is that about. I have nothing to do with new age, maybe you have some problem with NE but that has nothing to do with me. You may not like what it is that these people say - you may not agree with what they say, but there is no question that they’ve said it. For you to pose this -would be at the best, a misintepretation of what I’ve been saying, at the worst, some kind of angry finger wagging in my direction. So don’t do that, okay? It’s not the way to have a discussion. So let’s be clear what we’re talking about here. It’s not my theory, belief or opinion about what I’ve experienced. I’m reporting what I experienced.

Yes that's right it is common sense. What you say here has nothing to do with these people's lifestyles or health habits or level of spiritual evolution it's just well you don't want to be with them as they are a pain in butt. My point was why not just admit that to yourself than worry about shielding from toxicity, that might separate you from them either further.

and why they are a pain in the butt? because their lifestyles. health habits and overall "maturity" is so low that it causes the mentioned outcome. it's all connected. Admitting it doesn't make it better. And I admitted it long time ago. LOL

which makes me wonder if what you really mean is that you are a sensitive person, like a sponge, soaking up atmosphere ?

words are really bad and it's tough to explain a lot of things using language. You formulated the question in a way so that I could admit yes I am sensitive and so that you can deny the whole empath thing.

One guy tells you he's having a bad day. You feel that is 'negative talk' and so talk about your flooring ? Why ? As I read it it sounds like you refusing to acknowledge his bad day and just going on to flooring. Like this ?

no, you don't understand. I always make the mistake of trying to explain myself and it's a bad idea. Whatever I will say you will just do everything to prove I am wrong. That doesn't make sense to me.Also I really don't like when someone changes the things I said. I wrote "We go out for lunch /two guys and me/ and one starts some negative talk how he is having a bad day (another one &#128521, okay so I recognise that say something about it to acknowledge that and wind him up sometimes, try to change the topic and start talking about how I want to install a new floor". Why did you deliberately edited my sentence?

.. could it be they would like you not to change the topic but take on board what they are saying ?

NO!

Yes I see how it's draining and I don't mean to diminish how difficult it must be for you and sorry if I have given that impression, but these people still have lunch with you so actually you are still seen as a buddy ? People don't have lunch with enemies.

ah yes, clever move - like I was the problem nice try

Well it sounds to me like they still seem to like you and see you as part of the team so that's a bonus. Let us know how you get on.

well they joined the company far later than I did, and it's not like a choice everyone can go to take a break alone.

Every work place has it's own culture and sometimes people do bond a great deal through complaining.

heh!Might I ask how old are you, whether youre a man or a woman and where do you work?

 

[MrKind]

You have full right to be sceptical but trying to convince me, a person who is experiencing all this, that I am not experiencing it is just comical. But that is because you can't admit it because those are your beliefs.

 

[Trojina]

How come you're using this new age'ish tool? I saw a New Age guru recommending I Ching. It must be phony then! See how easy is to undermine anything?and you Trojina have a good bit of anger in you

I didn't set out to undermine you and was in fact trying to be very careful in what I said to you but you project anger on to me. Hmm it is you who sounds angry, furious in fact. I didn't even feel remotely angry when posting to you, I was trying to help.



Re new age if you read my post you would have seen that I wrote

Now not everything new age is to be dismissed, after all many would say the way we write of Yi here is pretty new agey but it can help to be aware of the basis of your beliefs about how energies work between people and so on..

Besides the I Ching is not a new ageish 'tool' it is 3,000 years old. I'm not sure how successful the I Ching is as a 'new age tool', where it is written of as such, because sometimes it's not positive and sometimes it's quite rude.

heh!Might I ask how old are you, whether youre a man or a woman and where do you work?

I am female, 58 years old and have worked in all kinds of places during my life so yes I do have some idea of how things can get in different types of work environments and have learned some ways of coping along the way. I'm also more than familiar with the concepts you discuss and have been for many years.

You have full right to be sceptical but trying to convince me, a person who is experiencing all this, that I am not experiencing it is just comical. But that is because you can't admit it because those are your beliefs.

I wasn't trying to convince you of anything, certainly not trying to deny your experience of these people as unpleasant as that is what it is.

What is comical is that I spent loads of time in answering your post as carefully as I could. Dear me.

Still we live and learn...or try to. I won't respond to you any further in these forums so that you can go on corresponding with those who don't annoy you and who you feel understand you better.

 

[rosada]

This dialog has inspired me to open the book and read what hexagram 13 actually says...hmm..
Well, the key question was what do you need to learn from all this? Line 2 focuses on one point about Fellowship with Men in the Open, but it's probably a good idea to look at the whole hexagram and all the lines to get the full message. Okay, so what is 13. all about? It follows 12. Stagnation and particularly line 6 which says "Over turning the block. Before, blocked. Afterwards, rejoicing." So 12. described the divisive mindset that had people drifting apart and line 6 describes how it only takes one individual to get things moving in the right direction again. 13 then outlines what that one person must do to create Fellowship after Stagnation.
The trigrams for 13 are heaven above and fire below. This gives an image heaven filled with many individual stars but they are all basically the same and all a part of the one Universe so...
13.1 Building fellowship begins with recognizing that like the stars in the sky, we are all basically the same and equal.
13.2 the second line of all the hexagrams describes where we are on the earth plane. On the heavenly plane it is easy to accept that we are all the same, all one, but on the earth plane we have infinite differances. The trick - or "humiliation" or "shame" is we don't always take our spiritual knowingness and bring it to our earthly existence. 13.2 changes to 1. The Creative, so to bring one's spiritual knowingness into the earthly life requires creativity! Now I don't believe getting line 2 is an indication that you are being inappropriate in your summation that these co-workers are particularly difficult. I read it more as saying, "Yes, you've got some real energy blocks around you - now what are you going to do about it?" The continuing lines give suggestions on how to deal with the situation...
13.3 You hide your weapons - don't argue or debate - and as Michelle Obama said, "When they go low, we go high."
13.4 "He climbs up on to his wall; he cannot attack. Good fortune." The "wall" is your strong internal boundaries. You are an empath and you probably need to do more to protect yourself. Bach flowers!
13.5 Now at this point the advice is not to worry if you've had to discriminate between those you get close to and those you wall out, not to worry. If you maintain a calm tolerant attitude, you and those who are meant to be close to you will find a way and all will be well,
13.6 The last line of a hexagram describes how things are AFTER the time of close Fellowship has passed. It suggests that once we have experienced true fellowship we will then be more able to feel good with more people even those we are not moved to be in close fellowship with.

Anyway, after thinking about all of this it seems to me your lesson here is not so much to think or yourself as being inappropriate for feeling uncomfortable around people who's values are not your own, but rather to find a way to be yourself around them without offending them or compromising your own beliefs. I think the lines 3.4.5 tell how this is to be done - don't criticize or join in with negative behavior, maintain your boundaries, and be alert for those who may turn out to be potential allies after all.

Good luck with it!!

 

[equinox]

My thesis is that those people at your work are bothering you so much because they hold up a mirror to you. When you describe their behaviour, it reminds me very much on your own behaviour here in this thread. To be honest I find that you spread a lot of negative energy, self-righteousness and disrespect, Mr. Kind. You only speak badly and pejoratively about the people at your workplace. I don't sense any understanding or compassion for their fate -- but compassion is excactly what I would expect from an reflecting, empathic person.

I am sorry if this sounds hard, but it is excactly what I feel -- to me it is a draining experience to read and to engage this thread. And that's why I also won't comment any further on your postings, at least as long as you keep this attitude. Still I wish you all the best of luck and that you find a way to solve these problems at your workplace and everywhere else.

 

[MrKind]

When you describe their behaviour, it reminds me very much on your own behaviour here in this thread. To be honest I find that you spread a lot of negative energy, self-righteousness and disrespect, Mr. Kind. You only speak badly and pejoratively about the people at your workplace. I don't sense any understanding or compassion for their fate -- but this is excactly what I would expect from an reflecting, empathic person.

I dont agree, I assume this is due to English not being my 1st language. It is funny that you find my answers/explanations like that and not Trojina who deliberately cut out part of my sentence where I clearly stated how I am acknowledging and winding up that person when he is complaining all the time. Also, I don't ''only speak badly and pejoratively'' about the people at my workplace - a correct way to say this is ''I only speak about people at my work who are causing problems'' because there are others [which I mentioned in the thread] that are 100% OK but I don't have any issues with them so they are irrelevant to this topic. Understanding and compassion, this is a typical understanding of the word ''empathy'' which unfortunately has nothing to do with being an empath as the word empathy means only that ''one is able to understand or share the feelings of another'' - as I said, language is very limited. Now, when you type ''empath'' google produces this empath''ˈɛmpaθ/Submitnoun(chiefly in science fiction) a person with the paranormal ability to perceive the mental or emotional state of another individual.''and THIS is the correct depiction of empathy for me. It's also comical they said ''chiefly in science fiction'' HOWEVER I agree this thread went onto complete side track when Trojina was trying to prove I was the sole cause of my own misery. Now I am being blamed as someone spreading negative energy. Not sure why. Doesn't matter, I also don't feel this being productive. I only wanted to know whether I should start to look for another job or not. The only person who seems unmoved and providing feedback lack of ego responses here in the recent messages is Rosada. And to be honest, I shouldn't even reply to the original Trojina post - I knew it won't up well. Lesson learned. I want to thank everyone involved and all the best. No harm intended. PS. Writing that you won't be answering to my further posts until I change my attitude is childish at best. I would suggest re-reading the whole topic and seeing the mistakes Trojina did.

 

[MrKind]

Anyway, after thinking about all of this it seems to me your lesson here is not so much to think or yourself as being inappropriate for feeling uncomfortable around people who's values are not your own, but rather to find a way to be yourself around them without offending them or compromising your own beliefs. I think the lines 3.4.5 tell how this is to be done - don't criticize or join in with negative behavior, maintain your boundaries, and be alert for those who may turn out to be potential allies after all.

And this is the answer I was looking for - thank you!!! I will be back with some hexagrams in 2 months, after the dust settles and Trojina and Equinox forget about this post. Take care everyone

 

[moss elk]

I asked "What do I need to realize in this current position?" and got Hex 13.2>1

Hi, I just noticed the thread.
I have a question.
Are you socializing with any people other than these workmates?
If the answer is No, then I think the answer may simply mean:
You should get out more, and broaden your social circles. (because obviously you aren't happy with these people)

 

[moss elk]

Help me out with the punch line?

An Empath and a Medium walk into a bar... then walk out. "I didn't like the feel of the place" "Yeah, and the spirits were all 4$$holes."

 

[rosada]

My late husband was an empath. He had a particular gift for music. He would get up in the morning and immediately put on a record that absolutely matched the mood of the day. He explained that he could first hear it in his mind when he woke up. He could fix anything and could find anything. His inner radar was that accurate. He died and we had never known he was ill up until a couple of months before he died when he took a wrong turn. In 45 years he'd never gotten lost or missed a turn in his life. But he had a hell of a time with personal relationships. He'd shake hands with someone and THEIR life would flash before his eyes! I just mention this to validate that the phenomenon is real.

 

[Trojina]

My late husband was an empath. He had a particular gift for music. He would get up in the morning and immediately put on a record that absolutely matched the mood of the day. He explained that he could first hear it in his mind when he woke up. He could fix anything and could find anything. His inner radar was that accurate. He died and we had never known he was ill up until a couple of months before he died when he took a wrong turn. In 45 years he'd never gotten lost or missed a turn in his life. But he had a hell of a time with personal relationships. He'd shake hands with someone and THEIR life would flash before his eyes! I just mention this to validate that the phenomenon is real.

You write as if someone had said it wasn't real. What you describe is not an empath anyway. An empath is someone who feels what others feel not someone who claims they know everything about a person where they are heading in life and all that. Not getting lost has nothing at all to do with being an empath.

 

[moss elk]

And this is the answer I was looking for - thank you!!! I will be back with some hexagrams in 2 months, after the dust settles and Trojina and Equinox forget about this post. Take care everyone

Since the querent seems satisfied to move on, I think we all should.

I am closing this thread.