When I first joined this excellent forum, I was not aware that the Tai Chi symbol was in fact the same as the Yin Yang symbol. Needless to say, I have learned much from the forum discussions here.

Now I have come to learn that the Yin Yang symbol, the Tai Chi, is from the Yi Jing. More specifically, the Tai Chi symbol is a tracing of the sun's annual shadow as the earth makes its solar revolution.


Quoting from this excellent web site:

In general, the Yin Yang symbol is a Chinese representation of the entire celestial phenomenon. It contains the cycle of Sun, four seasons, 24-Segment Chi, the foundation of the I-Ching and the Chinese calendar.

Observing and recording the shadow of the sun through the use of the gnomon was instrumental in discovering a calendar and served as a guide for human evolution and prosperity. The Chinese recognized the gnomon as the most sophisticated math instrument for thousands of years and it is the math of the gnomon that is the basis of the Yi Jing.

​

However, the gnomon was no more than a verticle stick in the ground. Hardly sophisticated at first glance, but the Math of the gnomon was revered as the greatest foundation of Chinese philosophy. The Math of the gnomon would help humankind establish order over chaos and lead to evolution and prosperity.


As the gnomon is intricately related to the Yi Jing, the Lo Shu, and the Hexagrams it's Math can not be underestimated. Chinese mythology is based on Fu Hsi and his discovery of the He Tu and the Lo Shu, gifts from Heaven.

The Lo Shu/He Tu was the Chinese cosmological model for Time (as in the calendar) and Space (as in the Pythagorean Theorem).

Quoting from the Chou pei suan jing translated as the Arithmetical Classic of the Gnomon and the Circular Paths of the Heavens:

He who understands the earth is a wise man, and he who understands the heavens is a sage. Knowledge is derived from the straight line. The straight line is derived from the right angle. And the combination of the right angle with numbers is what guides and rules the ten thousand things.


A sage was not a shaman nor a magician. A sage was one who understood the Math and could functionally apply it for the benefit of humankind.

Unfortunately, the importance of Math has been forgotten in reference to the Yi Jing. It is not necessary to know all the Math connected to the Yi Jing, but it is a shame that western civilization does not get the connection to Math and the evolution of humankind.

It is always instructive to know the root origins of a tradition if one is to incorporate this tradition in order to evolve and prosper.

Robert, how does your idea of the gnomon fit in with LiSe's discovery of the origin of the hexagrams?

http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/origins/index.html
FROM GUI TO GUA

Not sure at all if it is a "discovery" or just an idea. It did fit in very nice, all of it, and who knows - it might be the truth. I don't think anybody will ever know for sure, because it happened all so long ago.

I am more and more convinced that the whole Yi is a very beautiful structure of life and math. Not math as dry numbers, but as the foundation of universe. There was a book some time ago "A beginners guide to constructing the universe", I love that book. Plants and math, sound and math, stars and math, everything uses it, lives by it, grows by it.

I don't think one comes from the other, all things come from that same base with the same structures.

The difference between mathematics and tools like vertical sticks

Hi Robertluoshu,

Glad you enjoyed the website. Have you heard the traditional story of the disciples who split into a dozen different competing and hostile schools each differing upon what was the exact import and meaning of the way their Master held his fingers when he gave them their ultimate instruction of his teaching. It had been an occasion when the Master was trying to get his students to stop focusing upon him or upon the details of how he held his now arthritic fingers, but just follow his pointing finger and appreciate the beauty of the full moon he was pointing at and trying desperately to get them to notice.

Tools like vertical sticks, sundial gnomons, compass, straight edge, T-square are just that tools for drawing lines THEY ARE NOT MATHEMATICS which is an intellectual, symbolic pursuit that makes deep conclusions and articulates proofs that can be demonstrated and illustrated with the simple tools of their convention.

There are two discoveries to Pythagorean theorem. One is that a simple set of numbers (I believe there is an illustration in dot-number patterns that shows many of them, though I have not as yet found that page) taken three at a time, starting with 3,4,5 happen to have the property that the smaller two squared and added together equal the larger number squared.

There is another mathematical Pythagorean theorem that is Euclid Elements Book I proof 47 that goes through the steps to prove this must be true for the three sides of any right triangle. That is mathematics.

Observing the patterns of shadow of any and all vertical sticks is not mathematics, it is basic observation of the Planet Earth world we live in. A great observation experiment that I recommend highly to anyone interested in such things. Personally, I accidentally came upon an equatorial sun dial that a number of my friends found at a rummage sale and thought of me since it was decorated with the astrological glyphs. Over some weeks I figured out it wasn't really a lamp, though it had been fitted out that way (but without a wall outlet plug). It was an equatorial sundial
cast in metal, set to 42 degrees latitude and having its clock numbers 1-12 on the inside of its vertical wheel with an arrow as a gnomon.

I experimented with this sophisticated sundial for quite awhile. Finally, I realized this was all unnecessary. Putting an 8-inch bolt into the top of my apparatus, thus making it into an equivalent to any and all vertical sticks was all that was required.

And then the essential experiment turns out to be to watch the shadow of the vertical stick at true local noon. At that time, the sun traveling through the inclined circle of the ecliptic (where eclipses happen) passes through the Zenith, the point exactly overhead to each point upon the Earth where YOU are. Determining the time of true local Noon can be done in one of three ways:

1) You check the time on an atomic clock of great precision, but not total accuracy since time at that level of exactness is not truly defined, but such is the limitation of clocks and physics. Then
you check with the U.S. Naval Observatory or Greenwich Royal Observatory or whatever for the official satellite verified exact time of true local noon for your locality.

2) You go old school, watch the shadow of your stick about two hours before noon, marking where the end of your stick's shadow falls. Then about two hours after noon you mark the point at the end of your stick's shadow again. Then you draw an arc between these two points, bisect that arc per Euclid and determine where true local noon must fall.

3) You go concrete observational and just watch the shadow of your vertical stick as the sun rises higher and higher toward the zenith. The shadow will get shorter as the sun rises higher. Moving your marker stone or chip, say every 10 minutes or so. When the shadow stops getting shorter, it has reached its True Noon position. It will point exactly towards the Earth's geographical pole, the shadow will have an angle equal to the latitude of your location and it will be the shortest shadow your vertical stick will cast all day. On the equinox, it will be exactly perpendicular and very cute. I am not so clear about the solstices as our home at the time didn't have enough room to watch the shadow fully as it swung so far that day.

None of this is mathematics, it is objective empirical observation of the natural world or Science. But great fun and very educational.

Frank

What is the Essence of the Chou I Ching? The King Wen Sequence of the 64 hexagrams...

heylise said:

Not sure at all if it is a "discovery" or just an idea. It did fit in very nice, all of it, and who knows - it might be the truth. I don't think anybody will ever know for sure, because it happened all so long ago.

I am more and more convinced that the whole Yi is a very beautiful structure of life and math. Not math as dry numbers, but as the foundation of universe. There was a book some time ago "A beginners guide to constructing the universe", I love that book. Plants and math, sound and math, stars and math, everything uses it, lives by it, grows by it.

I don't think one comes from the other, all things come from that same base with the same structures.

Click to expand...

Hi LiSe,

The wonders of the Ancients remain accessible to us in the legends and myths and other retelling that are available to us all. Getting oneself into a place to understand what is being described does take a bit of background.

I have no idea what the foundation of the Universe might be, but it can't be math which is the symbolic analysis of observed regularities and the philosophical comments folks develop from them.

The Beginners Guide is just that, an introduction to geometrical construction and the description of the first 6 perspectives, Monad to Hexad and some discussion of the number concepts 1 to 10:

http://www.amazon.com/Beginners-Gui...books&qid=1271439689&sr=1-1#reader_0060926716

I have the book on my bookshelf somewhere, but the link above to Amazon.com works too.

The Origin of the King Wen Sequence is given in legend as the work of King Wen who worked with the line patterns as a whole to fit the entire Hexagram to his theoretical vision. Later folks like his son then added commentary for each line and then about the trigrams, Yin and Yang and all the rest. Works well for me. If you like the Monad to Tetrad perspectives of the Beginner's Guide they work to explain the decads or sets of ten hexagrams which are the secret of the King Wen Sequence--if you can transcend the Western view the structural pairs must be important rather than just decorative... Cf: http://www.stars-n-dice.com/fluxtome.html

This is all lovely material and fundamental to one's deeper understanding of the Yi.

Frank

The gnomon and the Hexagrams

pocossin said:

Robert, how does your idea of the gnomon fit in with LiSe's discovery of the origin of the hexagrams?

http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/origins/index.html
FROM GUI TO GUA

Click to expand...

Pocossin,

All I know is that that the Yi Jing, the gnomon, the calendar, agriculture (death and regeneration), the early Bagua and late Bagua, music and sound, the hexagrams, the Lo Shu, and the He Tu are connected through Math with the rest of the universe or wan, the ten thousand things.

And not dry math, but math as a concept that symbolizes a model for Time and Space.

So for humankind to be in harmony with Heaven and Earth, math is the connector. This aspect includes Astrology, the gnomon, the Lo Shu as well as many other "math tools".

The job of prognosticator or diviner belonged to the sage and the math, while not necessarily for the common person's understanding, had better been interpreted correctly as the sage resided in the Son of Heaven's court.

Anyhow, can not answer the connection of the gnomon/Lo Shu with the Hexagrams but I am confident the connection is there and a key to unlocking some of the Yi Jing's secrets.

In fact, I think Pantherpanther is on to something with the connection of music and the Hexagrams :bows: but I am not smart enough to wrap my brain around that concept . I also believe one of our newer members could provide some enlightenment on the subject as well.:bows:

Robert

I am more and more convinced that the whole Yi is a very beautiful structure of life and math. Not math as dry numbers, but as the foundation of universe.

Click to expand...

And not dry math, but math as a concept that symbolizes a model for Time and Space.

Click to expand...

If not dry concepts then wet concepts.

In sound, dry means a flat and equal linear response, which even means no room ambiance. In guitar amps this is called a dry rig. When any number of effects are looped into the signal path, including output vacuum tubes, it becomes a wet rig. It isn't beyond logic, but it can be beyond classical description or exact explanation or duplication. The analog world may be measured with digital math meters, but it can't quite (yet) create or reproduce that analog wave. It would have to be able to measure non linearly as well. How do you measure, for example, the depth of someone's love for some else, mathematically? How do you measure distance, other than by whatever relative scale you've devised to either measure or be measured?

Guess I see the universe as analog, more like the beating of a heart.

All I know is that that the Yi Jing, the gnomon, the calendar, agriculture (death and regeneration), the early Bagua and late Bagua, music and sound, the hexagrams, the Lo Shu, and the He Tu are connected through Math with the rest of the universe or wan, the ten thousand things.
And not dry math, but math as a concept that symbolizes a model for Time and Space.

Click to expand...

Hi Robert,

Perhaps some of the problem is the various technical jargon of the various philosophical, symbolic and mathematical disciplines involved. My apologies. Observing the sun's shadow with an 8-foot vertical stick is the Chinese technique. It is important to spend time doing that in various seasons and having that experience. It isn't technically mathematics, though the observations can be quite exact and the relationship of how the shadows are measured, especially at noon is important in learning to track things that are necessary to understand sets like hexagrams and the Taiji or Yang/Yin symbol.

Symbolism involves a special process of filtering or abstracting from what is perceived to fit into the simple patterns of the graphic markings. The overall process is universal. I have personally found that for us Westerners, it is easier to deal with the Pythagorean dot-number patterns and philosophy. However, I have some background in the subject and have done considerable original work in the field. Probably not so easy for those without a few decades of background and mentorship.

Frank

Gnomon definition

I have always enjoyed researching the root origin of words. The Oxford English Dictionary is one of my favorite books!

Some definitions

Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged, (1965):

gnomon - from Greek gnomon - interpreter , discerner, carpenter's square, also from gignoskein, to know

Definition 4 (now obsolete) - rule of faith or conduct: canon or tenet

Chinese defintion of:

chu - gnomon, carpenter's square, T-square, right angle

kuei - compass

The now obsolete definition of gnomon, rule of faith or conduct: canon or tenet corresponds to the Chinese word kuei chu, which also means "the way things should be, the moral standard" (Nibley, Temple and Cosmos).

Establish Order

When the Chinese character for compass (kuei) is combined with the Chinese character for gnomon (chu) this new word, kuei chu, would be symbolic of the use of Math to bring order over the Chaotic Heavens which would ultimately bring evolution and prosperity to humankind.

This was the moral standard or tradition for thousands of years in early China. There was the traditional way to set up a gnomon, interpret its readings, and document the data. The Ming Tang temple was constructed to safe keep these records. This contributed to the canon or tenets of the Yi Jing.

The sage or emperor would visit the Ming Tang (House of the Calendar, Temple of Illumination) to assign the four seasons. The temple design of the Ming Tang was based on the Lo Shu (Cammann, Granet) and the sage would be there to perform Math as well as ceremonies.

This is the principle reason of Fu Shi and Nu Wa emphatically holding these "tools" demonstrating the intricate relationships of yin and yang, female and male, the square and the circle, the calendar and the four cardinal directions.(Schinz, The Magic Square)

​

The sage was the interpreter, discerner, or diviner. The sage was the one who knows. However, the sage did have his/her "math tools" in order to.........perform math.

It is interesting to note the Freemason's have adopted the compass and square combo as their logo. I wonder if there is a Chinese correspondence???

Where did the Yin Yang symbol come from?

The Tai Chi originated from the gnomon and is symbolic of its Math, the math that leads to evolution and prosperity.

This is the principle reason of Fu Shi and Nu Wa emphatically holding these "tools" demonstrating the intricate relationships of yin and yang, female and male, the square and the circle, the calendar and the four cardinal directions.(Schinz, The Magic Square)

Click to expand...

Hi Robert,

Clearly, being aware of the details of the sun's shadow through the day and the year has been important.

In English also we have phrases like "on the level" or "the square deal" and the like noting that things that are aligned to the T-square or other right angle are considered better than things that aren't. Much of that has to do with the detail that the human eye evolved to be particularly aware of straight lines. An intriguing detail since the straight line can not be empirically demonstrated to exist. The definition of the straight line requires an infinitesimal accuracy that doesn't fit with physical matter composed of atoms and molecules. Thus making Newton's laws assuming all motion naturally occurs in straight lines logically suspect. That was the beginning of my investigation into what was actually going on in physics and thermodynamics in the 1960's.

In the natural world, the only straight lines are freshly broken large rocks with sharp edges therefore and vines pulled taut both of which are dangerous for creatures running across the savannas. Having eyes that would naturally pick out such details was a survival advantage once hominids left their safe haven in the deep water of the Rift Valley (Nile crocs appeared making it no longer safe to hang out there all day) and moved to the savanna to camp near water instead.

Mathematics is philosophy based upon basic observation. Geometry grew from surveying (though I suspect experience with sails and boat travel was the essential detail to that origin. The observation of the cardinal points is global and universal from the Medicine Wheel in WY to Stonehenge to Sumerian horoscopes to Chinese hexagram orders. The seasons determine the crop agriculture. The seasons are caused by the tilt of the Planet Earth to its orbit around the Sun. For a culture not to track those regular cycles is what is peculiar.

The larger mystery is how could Europeans have gone so long without noticing that every vertical stick's shadow at noon shows the Earth is a globe, every ship coming into port sailing up over the horizon shows the same and any journey by sea North or South shows that the latitude changes. European hegemony grew from the need by Italian city-states to put canon upon their grain ships to protect them. Then once their were big ships with artillery the nations farther North could travel the world conquering all the folks not similarly equipped for maritime warfare.

The question is not that observing the seasons is essential to understanding the Yi. It surely is. But are the rules for constructing Magic Squares essential mathematics or rather just interesting details while the King Wen Sequence is derived from Pythagorean Tetratkys philosophy.

Frank

meng said:

Guess I see the universe as analog, more like the beating of a heart.

Click to expand...

I guess what I meant with math was not clear. I didn't just mean the numbers, I meant the balance in everything. Matter and space and time, they are all interrelated, nothing stands on its own, with its own rules, limited to itself. No size or weight or speed or whatever is alone, it is part of many different things. The structure of one thing can be recognized in other things as well. Even love can be found back among the stars and planets. Even inanimate things attract or repel each other. We might call that a primitive form, but is it? It might all be the same rhythm which resonates through all.

LiSe, perhaps it was I who wasn't clear. I was agreeing with you and with Robert, particularly that you both pointed out that the math concepts you both referred to were not "dry" math.

I merely elaborated on what I perceive to be the opposite of dry.

Art and the Symbolism of the Compass

As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.

God forbid that Truth should be confined to Mathematical Demonstration!

Math is not everything, for sure. But the early Chinese revered Math as represented by the Tai Chi symbol, which is symbolic of gnomon Math.

The compass can represent anything to anyone, it can simply be a toy to draw circles with, however, for these genius artists, the compass had special meaning.

The compass in the following art is associated with Math as a symbol that:

• establishes order over the cosmos to promote the evolution and prosperity of humankind
• serves as a foundation of the conclusions attained through science and philosophy

Great artists such as Durer, Michelangelo, Kircher, Da Vinci and Brammante were also mathematicians. Plato had been quoted as saying that if one did not know geometry, they were not welcome to the inner circle. Durer and Da Vinci shared the philosophy that without the aid of arithmetic and geometry art could not attain perfection.

Let the art speak………..



The significance of the compass (Math) to these artists is elegantly demonstrated.

Albrecht Durer’s Melancholia I has a 4x4 Magic Square to emphasize the concept of numbers (arithmetic), just as the scales and hour glass signify the importance of weight and time measurement. Geometry holds the compass as the set square sits at her feet.

In all the art examples shown here, the compass (Math) is prominently featured.

The point to all of this is to demonstrate that throughout time Math has always had the highest respect from the great sages, visionary artists and architects. This ideology can be traced back several thousand years to the Chinese reverence for Math from old Chinese texts (Chou pei suan jing and the Yi Jing) and funerary art.

The Math symbols from this old established (Chinese) tradition are the:

• carpenter's square
• compass
• gnomon
• yin yang symbol known as the Tai Chi
• Luo Shu
• He Tu some excellent information is available on this forum!
• Ya shape - excellent video
• jade bi disc
• quincunx pattern
• kuei chu Chinese character meaning to establish order, the way things should be, the moral standard
  [*]gong Chinese character meaning carpenter's tool
  [*]jing Chinese character meaning well
• ya Chinese character meaning the center of Heaven
• wan Chinese character meaning the ten thousand things

Math was a language that any evolved culture from any era would be able to understand and implement for society’s benefit. The tradition was kept alive because of its practicality and was forever recorded in history with its symbols and art.

And the gnomon was the king.

Robert,

You're no doubt familiar with this 2.2 commentary from Wilhelm?

Straight, square, great.
Without purpose,
Yet nothing remains unfurthered.

The symbol of heaven is the circle, and that of earth is the square. Thus squareness is a primary quality of the earth. On the other hand, movement in a straight line, as well as magnitude, is a primary quality of the Creative (1). But all square things have their origin in a straight line and in turn form solid bodies. In mathematics, when we discriminate between lines, planes and solids, we find that rectangular planes result from straight lines, and cubic magnitudes from rectangular planes. The Receptive (2) accommodates itself to the qualities of the Creative (1) and makes them its own. Thus a square develops out of a straight line and a cube out of a square. This is compliance with the laws of the Creative (1); nothing is taken away, nothing added. Therefore the Receptive (2) has no need of a special purpose of its own, nor of any effort" yet everything turns out as it should.

Nature creates all beings without erring: this is its foursquareness. It tolerates all creatures equally: this is its greatness. Therefore it attains what's right for all without artifice or special intentions. Man achieves the height of wisdom when all that he does is as self-evident as what nature does.

Click to expand...

I wonder if you'd care to comment on it.

meng said:

Robert,

You're no doubt familiar with this 2.2 commentary from Wilhelm?



I wonder if you'd care to comment on it.

Click to expand...

Hello Meng,

I am not qualified to comment on Wilhelm's commentary - am not familiar with his writings or the Hexagrams. And I do not know anything about the Yi either.

I'm just a boring Math guy............

Hi Robert,

Sorry to put you on the spot, thanks for answering.

That 2.2 commentary has interested me for a long time, and though I'm the opposite of you in math aptitude, lol, I find the commentary actually folding (or unfolding) a single line into the three dimensional world which we perceive around us: the means of being dimensionally actualized or realized.

I see that as an example, or possibly just an interpretation, of what you've been saying.

If looking into math and dimensions. Than we all are familiair with the first four. The point, the line, 3d space and time this are the first four dimensions. We all know this and we are familiair with the math of these four dimension, whole are pollitics, health system, economics are based on these dimensions and the theory and math that are comming from this. This is all part of the Physical matrix.

But we evolved further and also are understanding math of the 5th and 6th dimension. the 5th dimension is where there are definitions like scalar field http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalar_field,
hyperspace http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspace,
zeropoint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy,
toroidial field http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aharonov–Bohm_effect, comming from.

Translated to daily live situations is this 5th dimension, the field that all the redlights are producing. We all know the rule to stop at red and drive at green, in a way this is the field that we all have agreed to follow. In a way it is the dimension of love, that we cann live together without chaos. The free electrons in this hyperspace fields are regulated and moved by something. This is the Energetic matrix.

Then the 6th dimension is the yin dimension of this 5th dimension, it is the holy geometry behind this field. It are the computers that regulate all the redlights. But it is also what Robert mentioned; The Lo Shu, He Tu, The Fushi and King Wen Sequence, the holy geometry of Da Vince etc.
What Bruce is saying when he is pointing at 2.2., is the importance of this holy geometry. And there is nothing yinner than 2.2.

It is also the theory of TCM(traditional Chinese medicine) and Ayurvedic medicine. Then the normal meridian system is 5th dimension and the extra ordinary(Wonder) meridian system is 6th dimension.

The first 6th dimension are the dimensions of matter, and the last 6 of energy. The first 6 are more of the west the last 6 more of the East. The Yi gives insight in dimension 7 till 12.

The man behind this theory that went further where famous man like Einstein and Schrödinger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schrödinger stopped is called Berkhard Heim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkhard_Heim
or
http://www.heim-theory.com/

Frank

As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. Albert Einstein

Click to expand...

Hi Robert,

This is one of my favorite quotes from Einstein! I think of it along with this talk before the Prussian Academy of Science with the Title "Is the Universe Euclidean?" To which Albert answered that it was a CHOICE physics could make, and since everyone at that time had studied Euclidean Geometry it made more sense to choose to see the Universe as Euclidean and the let physics concepts of time, space, etc change as required by observed data. Fascinating thinking.

I prefer the straight stick to the gnomon. However, all that truly matters is to set one up so the sun casts a shadow as it moves through the day and the year. That is the observation that matters for each of us and then we can make our own art in images, words or equations from there. This is the essence of all I Ching and other human mapping or science or many other insights.

Hi Meng,

The quote you cite from Wilhelm is reasonably straightforward. It is quite similar to remarks in Aristotle and fits to basic observation. Upon the Earth, as Robert has shown in great detail, things are measured in terms of right triangles or other things based upon perpendiculars or T-squares. Thus, the Earth is often symbolized by the square, such as the four corners of the Earth and other allusions.

Everything we observe in the heavens appears to be traveling eternally in cycles or circles or orbits. Therefore Heaven has a circle for its symbolism. Thus the circle of the Zodiac, the ecliptic,
the crystal spheres, etc. etc.

The sundial, the vertical stick, etc enables us upon the Earth to observed the eternal motions of the sun, etc as they travel through their cycles or circles.

Frank R,

The three dimensions of Euclid (space) and that of the mechanical clock (time) are what were essential to tracking observations for publication in physics journals in the early 20th century when Einstein dealt with such things.

Back in the day, when I was developing an Open Systems Thermodynamics based upon insights in footnotes in Teilhard, I used the fifth dimension for local organization or what he called Complexity. That left the sixth dimension for relevance of the relationship of each frame of reference or entity to the Universe overall or the Divine.

Nice to see such concepts are still in play.

Frank

Art and the Symbolism of the Carpenter's Square

Astronomy is the secret science of the priest-kings.
-Hellmut Wilhelm

The priest-king was a sage who could prognosticate or divine the future through the use of math, astronomy, and the Yi Jing. The tools of the sage were the compass and carpenter’s square.

The Chinese character gong was understood as an image of a person with a compass and carpenter’s square and is said to have the same meaning as wu – the spirit intermediary or shaman.

Divine Symbolism

There is a divine sage-like significance with Chinese symbols and characters incorporating the carpenter’s square and the compass. These were math symbols that also represented the square and the circle, symbols of divine wisdom and symbols that could describe the universe.

When the Chinese character for compass is combined with the Chinese word for carpenter’s square, a new word is formed, kuei chu: to establish order, the moral standard, the way things should be. This was a major theme in funerary art in the royal tombs of the Han dynasty, over 2,000 years ago.

These are the symbols of Fu Shi (the discoverer of the Hexagrams) and Nu Wa.

The Chinese developed the theme of the square and the circle for many thousands of years in their art, architecture, and ceremonial artifacts.

Here are some examples of the use of this Chinese character and the carpenter’s square in early Christian art.

GONG CHARACTER



CARPENTER'S SQUARE


​

The math instruments: the carpenter’s square (gnomon) and the compass, were the basis of astronomy, the calendar, and the Yi.

Tracing the sun’s annual movement (the solar cycle) by use of the gnomon is symbolized by the Yin Yang symbol of the Yi Jing, also known as the Tai Chi symbol.

In summary, the carpenter's square and the compass must have had divine significance to the early Christian church as the church borrowed these sacred symbols from the early Chinese.

Understanding the math of the gnomon will lead to a better understanding of the Yi.

This is an old thread that I missed, and I also might have missed a better comment than this:

The Yin-Yang symbol, called the Taijitu, is not as ancient in China as it is in the west, where it's found in Celtic, Roman and Etruscan iconography. It seems to have been introduced in China by Lai Zhide during the Ming Dynastry to substitute for the black and white concentric circles in Zhou Dunyi's Taijitu http://www.hermetica.info/Taijitu.jpg which is how the Yin-Yang interaction was represented prior to that.

Brad brings up a good point about the circular representation of yin/yang. The Roman "Notitia Dignitatum" has a number of examples where the symbol was used in heraldry before it was associated in China with yin/yang.

It's not that unusual for a symbol to come late to represent a system of belief, in this case less than five centuries.
The six-pointed star, Magen David or Shield of David was used in Jewish graphics as a motif in the late middle ages, but it didn't come to stand for Judaism until the 17th century.

According to one source*, the origin of the Tai Ji Tu diagram is uncertain. There are indications that the symbol for Yin / Yang was inspired by a Buddhist diagram.

It is generally believed that the Tai Ji Tu diagram originated from Daoist circles and is attributed to Chen Tuan, a famous Daoist priest from about 930 – 990 AD, and then fell into the hands of Zhou Dunyi less than a hundred years later.

The origin of the Ta Ji Tu symbol may well not be Chinese, however, it is worth noting what the symbol may represent, if in fact it does represent the solar cycle of the sun as seen through the observations of the gnomon.

Chen Tuan, like Zhou Dunyi, made significant contributions to the Yi. He was attributed with transmitting the most important diagrams of the Yi:

• The Luo Shu
• The He Tu
• The Diagram Succeeding Heaven
• The Diagram Preceding Heaven
• The Diagram of the Great Extreme – Tai Ji Tu
• The Diagram of the Limitless

Most all of the diagrams had a long tradition maybe for thousands of years, as probably did the Tai Ji Tu, prior to Chen Tuan’s transmissions. Most all the diagrams are related to math, the four cardinal directions, the five elements and the four seasons (the calendar).

The Tai Ji Tu is a diagram that shows how the “ten thousand things” were produced. The wan character, “ten thousand things”, symbolizes a complex philosophical concept which includes everything contained within the Universe.

The wan character is made up of four right angles or gnomons (like the Ya character) that form a swastika shape.

Therefore, “the ten thousand things” is a reference to a number, math, the gnomon, and the calendar.

Wan and Ya were divine symbols, powerful cosmo-magical symbols for many thousands of years whose origins may not have been Chinese.

However, it is why the Chinese incorporated the wan symbol into its language that is relevant.

Therefore, it may be instructive to understand that if the Ta Ji Tu symbol is a reflection of the solar cycle then the gnomon, and math, must play a significant role in the Yi.

*A Companion to Yi Jing Numerology and Cosmology by Brent Nielsen

yin yang symbol

The yin yang symbol seems to be visible in the full moon.
This was brought to my attention by Ken Taylors Early Heaven Oracle.

peterg said:

The yin yang symbol seems to be visible in the full moon.
This was brought to my attention by Ken Taylors Early Heaven Oracle.

Click to expand...

Picture:

http://www.wavewrights.com/pub/eh_oracle/site/

robertluoshu said:

It is generally believed that the Tai Ji Tu diagram originated from Daoist circles and is attributed to Chen Tuan, a famous Daoist priest from about 930 – 990 AD, and then fell into the hands of Zhou Dunyi less than a hundred years later.
Most all of the diagrams had a long tradition maybe for thousands of years, as probably did the Tai Ji Tu, prior to Chen Tuan’s transmissions. Most all the diagrams are related to math, the four cardinal directions, the five elements and the four seasons (the calendar).

Click to expand...

This is the Chen Tuan version from the previous century. Before Zhou Dunyi altered it.
It was called the Wujitu then, the Diagram of the Ultimate Nothing.
http://www.hermetica.info/Wujitu.jpg
I think I'm going to have to ask for some support for your rather bold statement that
"Most all of the diagrams had a long tradition maybe for thousands of years".
I've never seen any indication or evidence of these going back any further than the Song or Chen Tuan, and I have been looking.

bradford said:

I think I'm going to have to ask for some support for your rather bold statement that
"Most all of the diagrams had a long tradition maybe for thousands of years".
I've never seen any indication or evidence of these going back any further than the Song or Chen Tuan, and I have been looking.

Click to expand...

The (Luo) River Document and The (Yellow) River Diagram have traditions that go back thousands of years. The earliest usage I know of the Luo Shu is 165 BC, used in funeary art of Fuyang Yijing's tomb. The Luo Shu was incorporated in city planning during the Shang dynasty, 1500 - 1100 BC (Schinz The Magic Square).

It is not unusual for a symbol or diagram (archetypes) to have a tradition that pre-existed its documented use by hundreds if not thousands of years. Very little written material exists prior to 100 BC; most of the chronology of these diagrams is gleaned through archaeology and art.

The point of the thread is to examine the meaning of the Tai Ji Tu, whether or not it is related to the solar cycle, and if so, the relevancy of the gnomon to the Yi.

If the Tai Ji Tu is a representation of the solar cycle, then this allows an additional way to interpret the Yi and Wilhelm's writings. Wilhelm's writings seem to emphasize the four seasons, summer and winter solstice, agriculture, and other themes related to the Chinese reverence of gnomonics.

The bold statement is:

The gnomon and the solar cycle were an integral part of the Tai Ji Tu, and therefore the Yi.

It's the syllogism I don't get:

Diagrams have existed for thousands of years.
The Taijitu is a diagram.
Therefore, the Taijitu has existed for thousands of years.

More:

“Most of the elaborate associations of the Yi with the Chinese calendar first appeared in the Yiweishu in the Early Han. Further, the references to the coming of the 8th Moon at Gua Ci 19.0 (Lin is the 12th Moon, the 8th’s Inverse), the reference to the coming of solid ice at Yao Ci 02.1 (Zhi Gua 24) and the association of Gua 24 to the Winter Solstice in Da Xiang 24.X all suggest that a system of assignments was both in place and a part of the Zhou Yi and Wing composers’ thought processes.”

-Bradford Hatcher

THATS YOU!!

What a small world.

Just curious, with all your writings on the subject and excellent research, would you agree with the thread:


Your words are published on the same site that features an image from the opening post of this thread:

​

Are we not talking about the same concepts, aside from a mis-representation of the chronology of the Tai Ji Tu (which is unknown)?

robertluoshu said:

Is the gnomon an integral part of the Tai Ji Tu and the Yi?​

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I can't answer that. It's a fun hypothesis. And I like LiSe's idea for the 12 Moons. But for me it would still need to explain why Fu stands in for the Winter Solstice and not Kun.