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rosada
Guest
A congruent thread where we can discuss the story unfolding at "I Ching on the I Ching".
...life can be translucent
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bruce
Guest
I was thinking that having a story or theme would give it a consistant track to develop on. Ya know, a subject for the objects. (hopefully not who is zooming whom, who is cheating on whom, or the like!)
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bruce
Guest
I just asked Yi for advise on it and received 60.2 -3. LiSe's comments on line 2 is interesting as it pertains to this, I think.
"You have your own rhythm and pitch, but if you never play with others you may find yourself off-tune and not able to join in with songs anymore. Do not take habits and opinions (yours or theirs) for granted, but always stay open for the different and new."
60 isn't just about reducing, and certainly not about eliminating, but rather finding a place for each thing, idea and person. Not coming out the gate/misfortune I'd interpret as possible lack of participation, resulting in no completion or limited dynamic range and exchange.
So all you closet story tellers, come on out and play. What?s a little loss of dignity compared to having some fun with the Yi, and probably learning something in the process?
"You have your own rhythm and pitch, but if you never play with others you may find yourself off-tune and not able to join in with songs anymore. Do not take habits and opinions (yours or theirs) for granted, but always stay open for the different and new."
60 isn't just about reducing, and certainly not about eliminating, but rather finding a place for each thing, idea and person. Not coming out the gate/misfortune I'd interpret as possible lack of participation, resulting in no completion or limited dynamic range and exchange.
So all you closet story tellers, come on out and play. What?s a little loss of dignity compared to having some fun with the Yi, and probably learning something in the process?
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rosada
Guest
Ohh, good toss 60!
I think Matt has given us an indication of plot line by channeling that the dragon is off on a Search for Truth...
Perhaps it would be useful to write out here some of the prefered translations of the current hexagram.
Last I checked our Dragon was confronting 3.1:
You must constantly keep your objective in mind, despite any obstacles you may be encountering. However, you do need the right kind of assistance, and you should seek it with proper respect and humility.
--
Listen annd learn, you will find the help you need.
--
Hesitation and hindrance.
It furthers one to remain persevering.
It furthers one to appoint helpers.
***
Okay, anyone feel how to work this into the act?
I think Matt has given us an indication of plot line by channeling that the dragon is off on a Search for Truth...
Perhaps it would be useful to write out here some of the prefered translations of the current hexagram.
Last I checked our Dragon was confronting 3.1:
You must constantly keep your objective in mind, despite any obstacles you may be encountering. However, you do need the right kind of assistance, and you should seek it with proper respect and humility.
--
Listen annd learn, you will find the help you need.
--
Hesitation and hindrance.
It furthers one to remain persevering.
It furthers one to appoint helpers.
***
Okay, anyone feel how to work this into the act?
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bruce
Guest
Jacob's Ladder comes to mind. It has many mythical and historic references. And it is within Matt's theme. Jacob comes to life only through the identity we lend him.
60.2 Too many limits, too many 'rules ' won't work - depending on definition of 'work'. Well it may fall apart anyway, but why do things have to fit ? Reminds me of that party game where each person draws a body part, folds the paper, passes it round, the final picture is absurd, different minds, different drawings.
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bruce
Guest
Void, I hear ya. Hey, I'm game for whatever is fun or creative.
I Ching is typically such a heavy subject. Everything serious and important. Status and correct form be damned, I say.
I Ching is typically such a heavy subject. Everything serious and important. Status and correct form be damned, I say.
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bruce
Guest
Interesting to me is the punitive manner in which 4 is typically dealt with. Nowhere but in Wilhelm do I find this approach to Meng. It assumes wrong doing from the start, thereby committing the transgression referred to in 6.6.
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bruce
Guest
Oops, I mean in 4.6.
Talking to Mojo as you would to yourself Bruce ? Just begs the question how you talk to yourself, lol.
Its gone crazy over there, first theres a drunk dragon lying in the mud and now theres a man conversing with a dog. In a thousand years from now that thread may be discovered in the ether somewhere and people will think it all has great mythological significance, lol. Who was the magical famed dog 'mojo' they will ponder ? And who was the sage who spoke to him as he would himself ? Debate will rage and factions form. Just imagine if the Yi Jing was made like this ??
I guess this has ocurred to everyone but suppose you made your own oracle, a bit in the way some of us are doing over on that thread - and then used it, might it work ? I guess it would lack any kind of inner congruence or coherence - using very random images plucked out of nowhere, ie 3.5
The chastened dog is bewildered, but smiles eerily, good fortune you are on the right path.
Its gone crazy over there, first theres a drunk dragon lying in the mud and now theres a man conversing with a dog. In a thousand years from now that thread may be discovered in the ether somewhere and people will think it all has great mythological significance, lol. Who was the magical famed dog 'mojo' they will ponder ? And who was the sage who spoke to him as he would himself ? Debate will rage and factions form. Just imagine if the Yi Jing was made like this ??
I guess this has ocurred to everyone but suppose you made your own oracle, a bit in the way some of us are doing over on that thread - and then used it, might it work ? I guess it would lack any kind of inner congruence or coherence - using very random images plucked out of nowhere, ie 3.5
The chastened dog is bewildered, but smiles eerily, good fortune you are on the right path.
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bruce
Guest
Void,
I received a reading once from a woman who made up her own mythical reading cards, had each one illustrated by a famous fantasy artist, and the reading couldn't have been more accurate or helpful. An archetype by any other name is still an archetype.
Talking to your dog as you would to yourself may sound strange, but I believe some dogs are far more aware than people when it comes to understanding human voice inflections and intentions. Btw, I talk to kids the same way: to them but not down to them.
RE: the other thread. Very difficult to illustrate a Yi that has continuity with others who have different views of hexagrams and such, which is why I suggested a story line or theme. But then the transition from 3 through 4 is supposed to be an arduous process, so it isn't surprising that it's a bit awkward trudging through it.
I think lack of participation is mainly due to inhibitions. I jumped in with both feet, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't be like most others and just watch it struggle on pathetically or die. Obviously our early enthusiasm isn?t shared. Oh well. No harm in trying.
I received a reading once from a woman who made up her own mythical reading cards, had each one illustrated by a famous fantasy artist, and the reading couldn't have been more accurate or helpful. An archetype by any other name is still an archetype.
Talking to your dog as you would to yourself may sound strange, but I believe some dogs are far more aware than people when it comes to understanding human voice inflections and intentions. Btw, I talk to kids the same way: to them but not down to them.
RE: the other thread. Very difficult to illustrate a Yi that has continuity with others who have different views of hexagrams and such, which is why I suggested a story line or theme. But then the transition from 3 through 4 is supposed to be an arduous process, so it isn't surprising that it's a bit awkward trudging through it.
I think lack of participation is mainly due to inhibitions. I jumped in with both feet, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't be like most others and just watch it struggle on pathetically or die. Obviously our early enthusiasm isn?t shared. Oh well. No harm in trying.
yellowknife
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Now that the narrative flow has sort of gone, it's maybe harder to shrug off inhibitions and jump in. Feeling assertive enough to change the whole direction is a challenge, whereas adding to an existing narrative is a really receptive process.
Sometimes a warm up game I get people to do before performance and writing workshops involves creating a story by going round and adding one word at a time. Sometimes a "group mind" seems to be operating and we really create something coherent. Other times, chaos ascends pretty quickly!
I've loved catching up with the I Ching on the I Ching thread this morning though, and am poised to jump in...at some point. Feels like it would be nice to contribute something other than the 44 controversy.
Sometimes a warm up game I get people to do before performance and writing workshops involves creating a story by going round and adding one word at a time. Sometimes a "group mind" seems to be operating and we really create something coherent. Other times, chaos ascends pretty quickly!
I've loved catching up with the I Ching on the I Ching thread this morning though, and am poised to jump in...at some point. Feels like it would be nice to contribute something other than the 44 controversy.
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bruce
Guest
I hope you do, Wolverine. And I completely agree with all you've said.
"Playing" well with others is at least as much a skill as ascending an individual path. Much easier to do it alone.
Perfectionism is poison to the artist. Comparing yourself to others is almost sure to rob confidence, and motivation thereby.
Looking forward to what you have to say.
"Playing" well with others is at least as much a skill as ascending an individual path. Much easier to do it alone.
Perfectionism is poison to the artist. Comparing yourself to others is almost sure to rob confidence, and motivation thereby.
Looking forward to what you have to say.
Each line could simply be a persons experience real or imagined of that line, ie the real Mojo anecdote is pretty illustrative of that line. Advantage - no continuity required - also no rush, could take years, people could just add to it when they feel inspired - or not.
Talking to animals strange ? Not at all, I think everyone does it including me, but I find it amusing sometimes. I heard a woman in the park the other day quite seriously telling her dog "You only have yourself to blame !"
Talking to animals strange ? Not at all, I think everyone does it including me, but I find it amusing sometimes. I heard a woman in the park the other day quite seriously telling her dog "You only have yourself to blame !"
Lol. I do talk to my dog a lot, and that definitely has made him a better dog. He definitely understand a lot of words and inflections, and sometimes he even tries to talk back when I'm giving him affection..
Sometimes, I believe, he has questions. Here he is, trying to post something on Clarity:
Sometimes, I believe, he has questions. Here he is, trying to post something on Clarity:
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rosada
Guest
I like that suggestion, Void! We could create our own Portable Dragon! I wonder if there is some way submissions could be filed without necessarily having to be in order? I mean, could we just say "Post an incident, insight, story, song title, whatever, that you feel illuminates a specific line." Then is there a way these these submissions could be in a file in order? Kinda like what we have here that sorts out the threads by what hexagram they are refering to, only this would be a file for just the Clarity online Dragon.
Meanwhile, I am not ready to give up on Mojo. The thread seems to be reflecting the energy of the hexagrams, difficulty getting started and feeling like a fool Still it's manefested this wonderful picture of Lightangel's dog!
Anyway, didn't it take 500 years for the lines to get recorded? Hey, we can't be in a hurry..
Meanwhile we're at 5 now, which is all about chatting over here while we WAIT for clarity to come over there.
So...in joyous good cheer,
Rosada
Meanwhile, I am not ready to give up on Mojo. The thread seems to be reflecting the energy of the hexagrams, difficulty getting started and feeling like a fool Still it's manefested this wonderful picture of Lightangel's dog!
Anyway, didn't it take 500 years for the lines to get recorded? Hey, we can't be in a hurry..
Meanwhile we're at 5 now, which is all about chatting over here while we WAIT for clarity to come over there.
So...in joyous good cheer,
Rosada
Aw Lightangel he looks like the picture of hex 5 !
Hi Rosada yes thats a good idea though I wouldn't know how to do it, seems complex - but quite possibly over a long time we may produce our own portable dragon - (I wish I had that book ) I can imagine synchronicities abounding. When we got to line 3 of hexagran 3 I was waiting for Micheline to step in as she just had an incident with a deer hunter didn't she ?
Hi Rosada yes thats a good idea though I wouldn't know how to do it, seems complex - but quite possibly over a long time we may produce our own portable dragon - (I wish I had that book ) I can imagine synchronicities abounding. When we got to line 3 of hexagran 3 I was waiting for Micheline to step in as she just had an incident with a deer hunter didn't she ?
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rosada
Guest
Hi Void,
How about starting a thread titled," Life on the Line! Personal adventures with the I Ching" and ask people to tell their stories but they have to wait util the line comes up. Maybe set it up that we're doing one line a day. Like first day is 1.1 and only thoughts, stories, song titles, experiences and recipes that somehow relate to 1.1 should be recorded that day. Then the next day it's 1.2 with no going back. I bet with that structure in place people would find that they are unconciously having memories and happenings occur that would be exactly suitable for the day's log.
You could start each day by posting what one or two translations of the I ching suggest the line is about.
Sounds like it might catch on!
Rosada
How about starting a thread titled," Life on the Line! Personal adventures with the I Ching" and ask people to tell their stories but they have to wait util the line comes up. Maybe set it up that we're doing one line a day. Like first day is 1.1 and only thoughts, stories, song titles, experiences and recipes that somehow relate to 1.1 should be recorded that day. Then the next day it's 1.2 with no going back. I bet with that structure in place people would find that they are unconciously having memories and happenings occur that would be exactly suitable for the day's log.
You could start each day by posting what one or two translations of the I ching suggest the line is about.
Sounds like it might catch on!
Rosada
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rosada
Guest
Oops! Doubble posting happening over at I Ching on the I Ching thread. Bruce had the character doing one thing just as I was visualizing him doing something else - and naturally this happened while we were at 5.2, "Disagreements crop up". no biggie here, but with 6. Conflict looming it makes me think we should discuss some guidelines. (If rights and duties are exactly defined the cause of conflict is removed in advance. - 6. Image CONFLICT , pg.29 Wilhelm)
The guideline that is on my mind is that perhaps we should say we only progress at a maximum of one hexagram a day. In this way people who are not able to access a computer except at certain hours will have a chance to imput before the story goes too far a field and also I am finding that my dream life is becoming more active since being a part of this group, and that I often receive clarity for the thread when I "sleep on it.'
Thoughts?
Meanwhile, 5.5 and 5.6 sounds like a very nice syncronicity for Thanksgiving if we drag things out a bit. Perhaps double postings and developing a story within just one line should be encouraged.
The guideline that is on my mind is that perhaps we should say we only progress at a maximum of one hexagram a day. In this way people who are not able to access a computer except at certain hours will have a chance to imput before the story goes too far a field and also I am finding that my dream life is becoming more active since being a part of this group, and that I often receive clarity for the thread when I "sleep on it.'
Thoughts?
Meanwhile, 5.5 and 5.6 sounds like a very nice syncronicity for Thanksgiving if we drag things out a bit. Perhaps double postings and developing a story within just one line should be encouraged.
martin
(deceased)
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The full name under which he is known is Ramana Maharshi. He went to a mountain in India as a teenager (16-17 maybe) and apparently never left. Gradually more and more people came to see him and he didn't like that at first. But he allowed it after while and even began to explain the state he was in.
His teaching is very simple and beautiful in its simplicity. I could try to explain it but it's perhaps better to Google his name, there must be many pages about him on the web.
The question that I referred to in the other thread (under 3.5) was asked by UG Krishnamurti.
UG is even more anti-guru than the more well known J.Krishnamurti (no family) but it seems that he respected Ramana.
His teaching is very simple and beautiful in its simplicity. I could try to explain it but it's perhaps better to Google his name, there must be many pages about him on the web.
The question that I referred to in the other thread (under 3.5) was asked by UG Krishnamurti.
UG is even more anti-guru than the more well known J.Krishnamurti (no family) but it seems that he respected Ramana.
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rosada
Guest
Ramana was introduced by Martin back at 3.5. I feel he (she?) is Drago's inner guide manefesting as a sort of Sage or Elder Brother. I think he's going to be encouraging Drago to believe in himself with the going gets tough or the story stalls. But Ramana may have his own lessons to learn too. Perhaps Martin could tell us more here, or the story may show us who Ramana is.
Thanksgiving is this Thursday. It is a holiday based on a feast the Pilgrims gave to give thanks to God and the Indians who helped them survive their tough first year on the new continent. Everyone, the Pilgrims and the Indians, contributed to the meal. So now it is a tradition in this country to re-inact this gathering and once a year Americans all accross the country travel to be with their families to give thanks for all Life's blessings. Part of the tradition is that everyone contributes to the meal - but the menu itself is very traditional too - the main dish is usually turkey. It's also traditional that guests who maybe too far from home to be with their families are invited to have dinner with their neighbors. Alot of effort is made to be sure that everyone, including poor or homeless enjoys a good meal on this day.
Because this holiday is coming up so quickly I thought it might syncronize nicely with 5.5 "Waiting at meat and drink", and 5.6 "Three uninvited guests arrive, Honor them."
Also, because families are what they are, we may find that 6.Conflict should be studied at this time too! ;-)
Thanksgiving is this Thursday. It is a holiday based on a feast the Pilgrims gave to give thanks to God and the Indians who helped them survive their tough first year on the new continent. Everyone, the Pilgrims and the Indians, contributed to the meal. So now it is a tradition in this country to re-inact this gathering and once a year Americans all accross the country travel to be with their families to give thanks for all Life's blessings. Part of the tradition is that everyone contributes to the meal - but the menu itself is very traditional too - the main dish is usually turkey. It's also traditional that guests who maybe too far from home to be with their families are invited to have dinner with their neighbors. Alot of effort is made to be sure that everyone, including poor or homeless enjoys a good meal on this day.
Because this holiday is coming up so quickly I thought it might syncronize nicely with 5.5 "Waiting at meat and drink", and 5.6 "Three uninvited guests arrive, Honor them."
Also, because families are what they are, we may find that 6.Conflict should be studied at this time too! ;-)
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rosada
Guest
oops, I did it again. Our posts crossed in the ethers. Thanks Martin! I should have had faith that you would hear the question and post the answer.
Thanks for introducing this beautiful soul.
Thanks for introducing this beautiful soul.
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Asking the Yi (not merely out of curiosity)what itself thinks of the Thread "The I Ching on the I Ching" I got 1.1+5>50.
I would not consider this answer a "small" one. As a matter of fact, I felt deeply touched.
Especially in the context of Stephen Karchers thoughts about 50 (or 49/50) as an image about reconstituting the vessel it makes sense to me.
On the other hand, I don't want to be overly pathetic or dramatic about that answer. It is also singing a song of joyfulness.
It is a lot of fun, too; such an easy going thing to do, too, to take part in this thread. And if we are allowed to "create" something bigger than ourselves, why not? It's fun, anyway.
I love this view.
Warmly,
Soshin
P.S.:
"In a thousand years from now that thread may be discovered in the ether somewhere and people will think it all has great mythological significance, lol. Who was the magical famed dog 'mojo' they will ponder ? And who was the sage who spoke to him as he would himself ? Debate will rage and factions form. Just imagine if the Yi Jing was made like this ??"
Void, I really love your words...
I would not consider this answer a "small" one. As a matter of fact, I felt deeply touched.
Especially in the context of Stephen Karchers thoughts about 50 (or 49/50) as an image about reconstituting the vessel it makes sense to me.
On the other hand, I don't want to be overly pathetic or dramatic about that answer. It is also singing a song of joyfulness.
It is a lot of fun, too; such an easy going thing to do, too, to take part in this thread. And if we are allowed to "create" something bigger than ourselves, why not? It's fun, anyway.
I love this view.
Warmly,
Soshin
P.S.:
"In a thousand years from now that thread may be discovered in the ether somewhere and people will think it all has great mythological significance, lol. Who was the magical famed dog 'mojo' they will ponder ? And who was the sage who spoke to him as he would himself ? Debate will rage and factions form. Just imagine if the Yi Jing was made like this ??"
Void, I really love your words...
martin
(deceased)
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That was a near collision Rosada!
Where are you going? To the beach?
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bruce
Guest
Soshin, if we're to act a part we must become the part. Basic methodology there. We know that many hexgrams and especially lines are indeed difficult to move through. Can't change those parts into something else for sake of niceness; they are what they are.
I think your 1.1 and 1.5 is humerous, considering the 5.5 and 6 act on the other thread - making his appearence as an independent young man, yet still knowing he must find guidence to continue on. It's a hard pressed place to be in, and 6 is looming near. The guy's got authority figures yacking in his ears, still treating him as a child. Oh, there's conflict alright.
I think your 1.1 and 1.5 is humerous, considering the 5.5 and 6 act on the other thread - making his appearence as an independent young man, yet still knowing he must find guidence to continue on. It's a hard pressed place to be in, and 6 is looming near. The guy's got authority figures yacking in his ears, still treating him as a child. Oh, there's conflict alright.
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bruce
Guest
Martin LOL! Come on man, go be that guru guy over there. I can use a good councilor!