This question is a follow up to my previous thread about an argument with a friend.

Here's my situation. I have an online friend. This relationship is great on many levels. I change thanks to him, I learn a lot about myself and life in general, it helps me to find my centre and I feel I become a better person thanks to knowing him. But, it's not a romantic relationship, and as things stand at the moment, it cannot grow into something more, and so I'm scared I might stay too long in a situation that has no future. I love to be here now, but I'd hate to be still here a year from now.

So, I see three possible scenarios:

1.) The circumstances change and let us take the relationship wherever we want. - a great but unlikely prospect
2.) I keep writing to him as long as it gives me joy. - might be great at first but a disaster if I end up spending my life on writing to an unavailable man
3.) I keep the communication for now and learn from it as much as possible but I quit at the right moment to find someone available. - seems the most reasonable solution

So I asked I Ching: When the time will be right to end this relationship? and got 2.4.6 to 35.

I wasn't asking about a specific date, rather a stage of the relationship. When will I know we reached the end or achieved everything that was possible? When will I know I should not expect anything more from it? When the growing process comes to the end?

Thank you for your insight!

I can't help but be surprised by your question. So have you decided to end the relationship?

Or is the question really about how to change the relationship? Or more specifically, what can you do for yourself that will help the relationship work for you? To me that involves looking at what you really want from the relationship, what is there instead (I am assuming that if it were what you really wanted you wouldn't have to be asking questions about it), and whether or not you are willing/able to change your stance in the relationship to match what is there.

Have you looked at the commentary in WikiWing on 2.4 and 2.6?

2.4 suggests to me that there is something hidden. (tied up in the bag)
2.6 Wikiwing mentions the possibility of a fight between "I want to keep all options open" and "I want to create something real" which seems possibly pertinent to your scenario.

If you are ABSOLUTELY sure that you want to end the relationship, then I read the answer to "When?" as 2.4.6 > 35 as possibly saying, "When the sun rises on the earth."

I am more inclined to think Yi is telling you that there is something hidden and that there would be value in considering what I am remembering as the first answer, i.e., 6.5 > 64. I think what Trojan said about 6.5 makes a lot of sense. So...

1. Talk to him about it. Get the "cat out of the bag" so to speak. OR...

2. What I can see as far as "what is there" is that you are needing more communication than he is needing at this time. Perhaps 6.5 is an argument that you need to have with yourself instead of with him. Can the part of you that wants to continue the relationship talk to the part of you that wants to end it? I could imagine deciding to get busy with something else. So you wouldn't be deciding to end the relationship. Instead you'd be leaving it alone for a while. Would the part of you that wants to end it be willing to do simply leave it alone for now instead? That may feel like ending it. Perhaps that would satisfy the part of you that wants to end it.

Perhaps hexagram 2 is speaking to a more passive way of ending it, i.e., don't actively end it. Allow things to be hidden, i.e., "tied up in the bag" and avoid the battle of the dragons. Perhaps 35 is suggesting that you shine the light of your own gifts in some other area than this relationship for now.

lizzy, Could be that the Yi is urging you to re-examine your attitude towards this relationship? Hex 2 is "the receptive". It might be saying, do not approach this relationship with an agenda, but rather be receptive to the gifts it is giving you.

To me the reading seems to be saying "don't take charge of a relationship from the perspective of personal profit", but be receptive to what the divine is making possible through it.

If you understand this then the sun will shine on you and your relationships.

It is possible that I could be totally off the track here - but that was my first impression. Maybe others can offer more accurate interpretations.

callingcrane and ragini are absolutely right. But I'll just add that if you have your mind made up, and are looking for a specific answer to this "When". Then it's very fitting you got these Hexagrams. Hex 2 is one of only 12 that explicitly pertain to a specific month. In this case: November to December. And Hex 35 denotes "the day".

So a specific answer to your "When" would be about one or two months from now, during the day.

edit: And I know you weren't looking for a specific date, but this was too fitting to pass up, lol

Thank you all! I'm sorry it took me so long to answer, I had problems with my computer.

It's very helpful what you're all saying, but I must clarify one thing. The reason I think this relationship should end is not because of that argument I linked to. I did it just to avoid explaining the same things twice, but the bottom line in this relationship is: the man is not available. I must end it if I want to have a normal relationship with anyone else. Yet this relationship is important to me because of all the things I said earlier, and whenever I ask I Ching it tells me to stay, as if not everything is accomplished yet.

I don't have access to WikiWing, but yes, I agree that it's about me not wanting what I have at the moment. If I had what I wanted I wouldn't be asking about ending it. But, after reading your posts I thought that perhaps I should ask Yi what I want.

What I want from my relationship with X? I got 33.3.5.6 to 16

I'm not sure what the lines are saying, but I think the general meaning is I want to protect my integrity. As I see myself in this relationship right now - only a part of me can be involved, the other part is idle, and so I don't feel whole.

I don't have to actively end it, and while in this relationship I'm open to it being whatever it wants to be. So I can have it like that for now. The problem is I don't want to be in such a situation for ever, which is why I'm asking I Ching when the time comes to end it.

It could be December. Actually I'm in the process of helping him with something and I thought I'd probably finish by December. So perhaps that's it. Maybe the sun rising means when the days become longer, so about December 23.

Now, some last minute news. We had another argument yesterday, or rather something that unexpectedly evolved into a rather unpleasant situation for me, and to tell the truth I'm wondering whether not end it right away. On the one hand I feel in the middle of something (the process of helping him with things, and I don't want to waste my effort, since I've already done much to prepare). On the other I wonder whether it's all worth even more of my effort. So I asked I Ching again:

What should I do with X now? I got 53.6 to 39

Please, if you can help me with those readings I'd be really grateful. I'm so confused right now, but I think the last reading says to ask you.

lizzy

This brings up an interesting question, for I have noticed that women seem to get uncomfortable about things that to me have no meaning at all. I am nonplussed as to why you would want to end the relationship for any reason unless you meet someone who might be jealous of it. Why does it make a difference? Does he think it might lead to something? Then that is a different story, but even then, all you have to do is tell him it can't go anywhere. I realize that when you are in a relationship that is serious you can't allow the boyfriend to become jealous or such, but why even care if there is nobody else? All you have to do is talk to a person and explain the status. I would not be uncomfortable in the least talking about it to a woman or having a woman talk to me about it, but women seem to get uncomfortable.

That being said, line four speaks of the need for the strictest reticence. This tells me that there is something more to this story than is being told. Apparently he feels there is an opportunity for a true relationship?

Gene

Thanks a lot, Gene.

It's hard to tell what he feels. Probably he'd see an opportunity for a true relationship if he were free to have one, but he's not.

I don't think I can allow myself for staying in this relationship because as long as I do I won't be able to meet anyone else. It's like platonic love. It's not the same as a full relationship, but it's still emotionally engaging to me.

So, on the one hand, it's great as it is, on the other, it's not how I want to spend the rest of my life. But, for some reason, I Ching keeps telling me to be there, as if not everything has been said yet. Also, we have great horoscopes, both synastry and composite, which, unfortunately, doesn't make it easy to stay cool, though it makes our relationship very important to each of us.

Hi Lizzy, I also checked out the other thread you opened up about this issue and I have got some thoughts about it I wish to tell.

I can`t read each hexagram and line for you because there are way too much for my rare time off, but I see a generaly direction and a couple of things you might see not, that is what I wish to tell.

At the other thread Liss and Trojan already tried to push you into the direction I also see.

The point is: For being a not romantic relationship you are busy way too much with dealing with the situation. I guess this is what Liss meant with obsession. You got a bit upset about it because there is some truth into it. You are not relaxed as it is would be normal if you just have a normal healthy ( not romantically) friendship. You are full of worries whether to stay or to go.

I say it clear: I guess you lie to yourself. You are in love with that man and so the question to stay or to leave is VERY important for you. If he would JUST be a friend for you we hadn`t this two threads and this huge amount of hexagrams and lines.

That is probably why others told you here you shall ask yourself what you really want. Yi suggests to leave. I once had a similar situation with similar hexagrams and lines. You can`t get from him what you really wish and you suffer because of that and that is why you ask so much about leaving or staying or how to handle the situation. If he would be just a normal friend you wouldn`t get as worried as you get if he doesn`t write a couple of days

He is too much important for you for just being a "friend". You try to be just a friend for him (because there is no way for something else) but I guess you don`t get it, because on your side there is more than just friendship. I also tried and it ended up finaly after 3 years. There is nothing left. It is just OVER. No contact anymore since it was over. Because he never was a friend, but just the man I cannot have.

Platonic is great, if there really is no passion involved. I guess you WISH that a platonic relationship will work but it doesn`t seem to work.

So my suggestion would be: Again - ask yourself what you really want from him.

If you find that out very clear, you will know what to do. That you got 33.3.5.6 to the question what you want from him means:
33.3.5.6 > 12.5.6 > 35.6 > 16

You wish to clear up the situation (12.5.6) for to feel something like 16 in the end when it is cleared. You wish to be more connected with him as you are. 35.6 means you expect too much from him. Expect that much from yourself and from your husband (if would had one) but not from him.

So there are two ways:

1: Be really confident with what you get from him, then there are no problems. Accept it fully as pure platonic relationship, don`t expect too much from him and don`t get into fights with him for getting more (2.4.6) !!!

2: Be honesty to yourself and see that you wish more from him than you can get. Ask yourself if you feel well into the situation because I guess: No. You don`t feel well. It is because too much feelings are involved here for to keep the distance which would be necessary for an unproblematic only platonic relationship.

I have a real platonic relationship with a man. It longs since 16 years because it is REALLY platonic, lol. There is no passion at all but a very, very, very close and honesty friendship. He is married and I haven`t got any problems with that because I DON`T wish to marry him,lol. He is just a friend. If he doesn`t write me mails for a certain time, I`m absolutely don`t get nervous about it. He is busy then and that`s completely okay for me because I don`t need to be in contact with him all the time. I can wait until he has time again to write me. THAT is platonic.

What you have with this friend is not platonic in my humble opinion. Because if it would be, you could wait and be patiently. You wouldn`t ask Yi a thousands times how to behave or how to handle.

So as my closing word: I guess you wish it to be platonic, because that would really work and you at least would have a part of him then. But I`m afraid it doesn`t work. Too much emotions invested here for being an uncomplicated relationship.

Clear your feelings and then think again about if you are really able to eliminate them, because this would be necessary for a pure platonic relationship. If you are not able to eliminate them I would recommend to look somewhere else for someone else who can give you what you really wish, because YES your suspicion is right. You block yourself for a really satisfying relationship in hanging on at this friend so close.

Gene said there is no reason for to end up as long as there is no one else who could be jealous. That`s typical pragmatical thinking of man, lol. Sorry Gene Of course he is right, if it would be all really platonic. But I am afraid it is not and so you are blocked for another man.

33.3.5.6 tells you what you already know You just have to believe it.

Hope you don`t get upset now, lol. I just wish to help you.

Best wishes Yvonne

Thank you, Yvonne! I don't disagree with what you say in general, but I think we have a very different definition of platonic love. To me, platonic love is the highest form of love that doesn't necessarily involve sex. It's something totally different than friendship. I too have male friends, and no, this situation is completely not like that.

Still, it's not a romantic relationship because we don't behave as two people in a romantic relationship. There are different rules of game involved when people pronounce their love and treat each other as a couple.

Also, my problem in the previous thread wasn't that I couldn't patiently wait for him to write. I can live with him not writing for months. The problem was he said he would write and then didn't. I just don't like when he doesn't keep his word. I see it as lack of respect.

However, the subject of this thread is "When the time will be right to end this relationship?" so as you see I did assume it'd have to end. I'd hate to wait three years!

It's interesting that you read it all so differently than everyone else, but I'll give it some thought. In general, I just wouldn't want to make a mistake in any direction. I'll add that if I think there might be something more here I don't think of it in romantic terms. Rather, I think that perhaps it's an important experience or lesson.

Basically I already told him it'd have to end in several weeks. He's not too happy about it, but there's nothing he can do.

Thanks again!

lizzy said:

Thank you, Yvonne! I don't disagree with what you say in general, but I think we have a very different definition of platonic love. To me, platonic love is the highest form of love that doesn't necessarily involve sex. It's something totally different than friendship. I too have male friends, and no, this situation is completely not like that.

Click to expand...

For me platonic love is the same as for you, yes it is different to normal friendship. There is no one on this planet I share with what I share with my platonic love. So it is also not a normal friendship. He knows things about me, no one knows, even not my mother. I never been so close to a man without having sex with him. But I have no sex with my platonic love because I don`t feel that I want it or need it. It is more spiritual than biological. C. G. Jung talked a lot about it, it calls: Agape, the highest form of love: You don`t want to posses the other and so you are totally free to really love him.

To love is to give, not to want something. Agape is totally free of all the ego wishes concerning the other. Love is neverthless and not because of something. So if you feel so unhappy there must be something wrong with your platonic love and that`s why I supposed that it is not really platonic. But maybe the problem is elsewhere and I just can`t see it.

lizzy said:

Still, it's not a romantic relationship because we don't behave as two people in a romantic relationship. There are different rules of game involved when people pronounce their love and treat each other as a couple.

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But it seems you badly miss something (?)

lizzy said:

Also, my problem in the previous thread wasn't that I couldn't patiently wait for him to write. I can live with him not writing for months. The problem was he said he would write and then didn't. I just don't like when he doesn't keep his word. I see it as lack of respect.

Click to expand...

I understand.

lizzy said:

However, the subject of this thread is "When the time will be right to end this relationship?" so as you see I did assume it'd have to end. I'd hate to wait three years!

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Do you wish to end it up because of the lack of respect? Because that seems to be your only problem if I understand you right, now?

lizzy said:

It's interesting that you read it all so differently than everyone else,

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Here are a couple of others in addition who read the hexagrams like no one else does, lol.

lizzy said:

but I'll give it some thought. In general, I just wouldn't want to make a mistake in any direction. I'll add that if I think there might be something more here I don't think of it in romantic terms. Rather, I think that perhaps it's an important experience or lesson.

Click to expand...

Wish you the best for your decision.

lizzy said:

Basically I already told him it'd have to end in several weeks. He's not too happy about it, but there's nothing he can do.

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You said him that you will end it in several weeks? Why in several weeks? What does this mean? I don`t understand. If I break up a relationship I say: "So, it is over, bye."
And not: I will say "it is over bye" to you in several weeks.

Or have I an english understanding problem?

lizzy said:

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

You`re welcome

Good luck and all the best, Yvonne

Ach, no. Agape love is the Christian kind of love, like when Christ died for us. It is this kind of love a good person has for everybody, even one's enemies. Platonic love is the eros love, just without sex. Plato didn't think sex belonged there. It's a very intense and intimate kind of love, leading to self-knowledge.

Plato didn't say that sex wasn't possible between the people, just that it wasn't a part of eros love as such. In our situation there's no sex because it's an online relationship. We don't live on the same continent.

Why did I tell him it'd be over in several weeks? I always knew it couldn't go anywhere, but I wanted to get to know him better. It's not every day you meet someone with whom you can be so close. So I gave us some time, but I knew it couldn't go on for ever. Initially, I planned I'd end it in December, and as you can see the answer I got from mryou1 also points to December. But our communication can be erratic at times. Sometimes he's here with me every day, and sometimes he disappears, like he did the last time. Part of my frustration came from the fact that I knew he was wasting our precious time, because he thought he had all the time in the world. So I thought that telling him we had time limit would give him the choice to be here during the last weeks.

But of course now he's confused. I'm not sure it worked out as well as I wanted to. I asked Yi to give me reflection on our relationship and got 61 unchanging. Perhaps I should be even more open with him?

You see, he's very important to me. Even if it cannot go anywhere, I know I'll always remember him as one of the most important people in my life. I don't want to just turn away and leave him feeling angry and rejected. I want to give us as much as I can. But I know I cannot give him my life.

Thank you very much!

@Lizzy:
Aaaaaaaaah now I understand

You would have a relationship with him, if he would live on the same continent as you. But if you find something really true and precious I guess different continents are not unsolveable problems.

Of course maybe not the easiest thing in the world but not impossible. So: Have you both ever considered about a more joyful solution than your platonic solution?

I also understand the rest of the problem now. Thanks for explaining me. There is a big "advantage" in online contacts or online relationships: One can turn the other easily off and on That`s sarcastic meant and so I understand your dissapointment about his behavior.

In real live you can walk to your partner and you can say: "Hey why are you not talking to me? What is the problem?" And he cannot avoid the confrontation and have to give you an answer. Online: Pffffffffff he can tell you simply everything and you can do absolutly nothing to get his presence if he wishes not. There is no way to clear up something if the other is avoiding communication. He just turns the off button and you sit there alone with your thoughts and worries. That`s not okay and so I understand now what you miss and why you consider about to break it up.

Now I also understand why you give him a certain time limit. He has to consider about what he wishes from you. A time limit will help him to clear this point. You are very kind to him, I hope he appreciates. Maybe we will have a surprising change and if not, you at least will have clarity in a couple of weeks. Let us know how things will develope.

Wish you all the best, Yvonne