Clarity,
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London.
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‘Shake comes, fear and terror.
Then afterwards, laughing words, shrieking and yelling.
Good fortune’
‘Shock comes, danger.
A hundred thousand coins lost
Climb the nine hills,
Don’t give chase.
On the seventh day, gain.’
‘Shock revives, revives.
Shock moves without blunder.’
‘Shock, and then a bog.’
‘Shake goes and comes.
Danger.
Intention is not lost – there are things to do.’
‘Shock twists and turns,
Watching in fear and terror,
Setting out to bring order: pitfall.
The shock does not reach your self,
It reaches your neighbour –
No mistake.
There are words of marital alliance.’
Hexagram 51, lines 1-6
‘Shake comes, fear and terror.
Then afterwards, laughing words, shrieking and yelling.
Good fortune’
51.1
‘Shock comes, danger.
A hundred thousand coins lost
Climb the nine hills,
Don’t give chase.
On the seventh day, gain.’
51.2
‘Shock revives, revives.
Shock moves without blunder.’
51.3
‘Shock, and then a bog.’
51.4
‘Shake goes and comes.
Danger.
Intention is not lost – there are things to do.’
51.5
‘Shock twists and turns,
Watching in fear and terror,
Setting out to bring order: pitfall.
The shock does not reach your self,
It reaches your neighbour –
No mistake.
There are words of marital alliance.’
51.6
Wasn't that the verse he sang in Russian?That's what I had in mind!
There's an added verse from the early '70s:
'The amorous hippopotamus whose love song we know
Is now married and father of ten,
He murmurs, "God rot 'em!" as he watches them grow,
And he longs to be single again!
He'll gambol no more on the banks of the Nile,
Which Nasser is flooding next spring,
With hippopotamas in silken pyjamas
No more will he teach them to sing...'
I don't think we have to choose: both are kinds of Shock. Also, it's important to remember that thunder then was not the same as thunder now: not a well-understood electrical phenomenon (or at least, something we know someone understands perfectly well), but the voice or instrument of Heaven. If you were struck down by a thunderbolt, that was because you'd done something wrong. When you heard the thunder, it was time 'in fear and dread to set things in order and be watchful.'I don't think there is a right or wrong here, but I'm leaning towards Hex. 51 as Thunder.
You can convey quite a lot of different moods with English translations of this one. 'Mirthful words and echoing laughter' sounds far too festive for me. I'll stick with 'laughing words, shrieking and yelling' - with a note of hysteria.It was shocking, and afterwards we felt some relief that it wasn't worse (at least where we were), but I'd be hard pressed to describe what we felt as 'mirthful words and echoing laughter'
Yes, but perhaps the feelings and emotions and imagery of thunder (and/or quakes) might be the same back then as they are now?... it's important to remember that thunder then was not the same as thunder now: not a well-understood electrical phenomenon
Agreed, but we can have a preference - or even have a preference for a particular reading: that maybe thunder and / or quake works, depending on the situation.I don't think we have to choose: both are kinds of Shock.
Yes - and that's why I like the meanings associated with the imagery as well!You can convey quite a lot of different moods with English translations of this one.
I would think not, on the whole. The physical thrill is the same, but when did out-of-season thunder last fill you with dread and prompt you to sit up all night in fearful self-examination? Though I did once know an elderly lady who was terrified of thunder, and would shut herself up in the littlest room (the only one with no window) with her dog every time there was a storm.Yes, but perhaps the feelings and emotions and imagery of thunder (and/or quakes) might be the same back then as they are now?
Of course.we can have a preference - or even have a preference for a particular reading: that maybe thunder and / or quake works, depending on the situation.
The inimitable Rutt! Have you seen 53.2? That's probably my favourite.Or ...
When thunder comes, crack-crack,
there's laughing chat, yack-yack,
Though thunder frightens all the land,
no drop of wine falls from the hand.
- Rutt
Yes, you are right in that respect. Perhaps I was thinking that actual thunder has not changed at all, and how I feel it hasn't changed - except that living in possibly more substantial homes might make me feel more safe. But I still felt it vibrate/resonate in my chest and body - as I imagine someone 3,000 years ago. But what that meant to them? And the meaning and imagery it carried for them - I can only imagine (based on the clues and writings they have left).The physical thrill is the same, but when did out-of-season thunder last fill you with dread and prompt you to sit up all night in fearful self-examination?
I'm just starting with Rutt. I like it that he challenges me - as some of his translations are quite different than other people's, or at least those whom I usually refer to.The inimitable Rutt! Have you seen 53.2? That's probably my favourite.
When thunder comes, crack-crack,
there's laughing chat, yack-yack,
Though thunder frightens all the land,
no drop of wine falls from the hand.
- Rutt
And also: In 2009 he was made a Prelate of Honour by Pope Benedict XVI. He was an honorary canon of Plymouth Cathedral.Fun fact: he also wrote a knitting book.
I had the stereotypical visceral experience of 51 a couple months ago: was carrying something full of liquid (I forget what exactly, maybe the cats' water dish) - tripped, stumbled, all I thought was don't spill it... literally watched arm, hand, and dish kind of in slow motion. Did not spill it.
It matters because my comment makes less sense if it wasn't an interview where Rutt was answering questions, and was just someone opining without reading it. I still think it could be a fair and interesting point if the reviewer went about it from a sense of curiosity or something.It does't really matter, but no, I never changed what I wrote, nor said anything about an interview. It is what it is.
The operative word here is 'if'.still think it could be a fair and interesting point if the reviewer went about it from a sense of curiosity or something.
Have done so, and yes, garbage. Fortunately numerous people, including you, piped up to say so, and a couple of you referenced Biroco (who is qualified to review I Ching books). Hilary also mentions it quite often 'round the site, and wrote a short review.If you want, you can read the whole thing
Yes, Rutt's honor has been defended! I expect that anyone with a real interest in the Yi or his writings will take the 2-star review as it should be taken ... as you noted above.Fortunately numerous people, ... piped up to say so, ....
heathen, knitting priest
Rutt, Wilhlem, Thomas Merton ... do I sense a pattern here? Then again those priests and monks were always writing stuff down.... I'll assume that kind of productivity is simply not achievable by most of us mere mortals.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).