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27.1

clarissa

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I recently got in touch with an old friend. This is someone I haven't seen in maybe 10 years or more. We're just friends but I always knew that he perhaps liked me for more than a friend. Out of curiousity I asked "How does he feel about me?" and received 27.1:

This seems to be talking about someone who is feeling a bit down...someone who gave up their nourishment? Does he perhaps feel that he should have pursued me?
 

matt

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Hi Clarissa,

I do not participate in personal readings for individuals, there are far better qualified people on this site to offer you these insights, but may I offer you some advice on this one?

This is my personal perspective and I fully understand if you feel differently, diversity is a beautiful thing. Its been my experience that the I Ching is best used to understand our own relation to the universe, rather than someone elses. If we look within ourselves, the answers to our questions are sometimes flying high in the heavens in full view or a little harder to see, submerged below waters we have not yet dived into.

Theres a saying I have, "If we are within we are never without, and if we are without we are never within". When a situation is confusing to us, this is indeed great substance. The confusion serves the purpose to help us remember our own connection, this is its inherent value and message. So I feel the I ching, will always provide us with answers to view our own situation rather than someone elses, and in understanding our own, we understand theirs also.
 

hilary

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Maybe things are a little quiet because there is a less pleasant interpretation of that reading available, and no-one wants to be the first to say it...

The thing with 'how does he feel about me?' as a question is it's not 100% clear whether the answer is meant to talk about a) what he feels about himself when he thinks about you or b) what he feels about you when he thinks about you.

You've taken 27.1 as being maybe 'a'. But with that question it might just as well be version 'b'. (Did you have one or the other in mind?) He might feel that you are metaphorically-speaking gazing at him with your jaw hanging down - looking to him to provide for you something (like direction or self-respect) that you should really be providing for yourself.

Where is the emoticon for sticking my neck out?
 

clarissa

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Hilary,

Unpleasant interpretations don't phase me. I just can't stand "therapy" talk. I'm interested in the Yi and I ask questions. How else am I supposed to learn?

Don't worry about sticking your neck out. This is someone I haven't seen in years...and I asked out of curiousity after we chatted on the phone for a bit. He invited me to visit anytime I want and was quite friendly. HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure it's option b)...given what I was talking about. That's why I'm trying to understand the meaning of the line. I'm still very fuzzy with it. It looks like someone who sort of well...is in a bad mental state...because they put themselves there.

I see your point regarding the ambiguity of the question. I'm not asking it that much anymore. Instead, I'm asking questions like, "How is my relationship with X? or "What is the nature of my relationship with X?" etc. However, in this case...I asked it. When I asked, "How is my relationship with X"...X being this person I received a very puzzling answer:

41 -> 6

I'm not even going to try to make sense out of that. None of the moving lines strike a chord with me and the resulting hexagram doesn't make sense either. We haven't seen each other in years and had a simple phone conversation that went well. This is also a platonic relationship....so there isn't that much emotional involvement here.

I'm finding that when I ask the Yi a question about an issue that's not that important for me..or an issue that I'm not emotionally involved in...it often gives me confusing answers. It's as if a burning desire to know has to be there. I think you mentioned that as well somewhere on this board.
 

hilary

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Probably I did - I wouldn't be the first. Need and desire to know makes a big difference for me.

Another reason why 'how does he feel about me?' can lead to confusion. When you get an 'option b' answer, you can get an accurate picture of his picture of you, but it doesn't follow that his picture of you is accurate.

I think I just remembered why I don't get on with that kind of question: it's the sentence structures I have to get into trying to write about them! Argh!

Well, if you're not trying to make sense of 41->6, far be it from me...
happy.gif

It's possible that if you're really not that bothered about the question you asked, Yi is giving you some direct advice instead. Perhaps.
 

matt

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Clarissa, I wasnt aware I was engaging in "therapy talk". I apologise if this is how it was portrayed to you. You post many questions on these boards, and receive many answers from the people kind enough to respond. And I can understand that my own personal views on the I Ching may not agree with you, but I certainly wouldnt go as far as saying "this is one boring crowd". Just call me boring
happy.gif
lol
 

luz

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Matt,

Thanks for your post. Don't forget that there are other people reading these threads, not just the originator. So, there is never a need to apologize for being generous with your wisdom. Some of us sure appreciate it!
happy.gif
 

clarissa

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Matt,

I ask questions trying to get responses...because I'm curious and want to know more. I learn via talking about the hexagrams..what they might mean...what they meant for someone else etc. In order to do this I have to ask questions of the Yi. Believe me...I have many readings which I haven't shared here because I don't feel that I'm confused about them. I really do find the Yi interesting(I'm especially captivated by Chris' approach...fascinating..even though I'm only barely able to scratch the surface of it)...and I'm somewhat disappointed that there isn't more activity on the board. Oh well. That's OK.

I'm sorry if I was rude.

Hilary,

Right. I understand that their feelings/perceptions may be incorrect. In this case...they may not be though
happy.gif
I probably have been acting a bit like someone who lost her magic tortoise.

About need and desire to know...

I just asked how a reasonably good friend feels about me and I received an answer that does seem to make sense...22.2.3 -> 41. The reason it makes a lot of sense is this friend of mine IS VERY concerned with appearance...so it seems very reasonable that her feelings about me would revolve around appearance. So, here again...it does seem that some emotional involvement makes the answer far more understandable.

Btw, remember the man I was asking about earlier...the one who disappeared and never contacted me again? Feeling very exasperated, I finally asked in a very just-tell-it-to-me-straight tone..."What exactly IS the nature of the relationship between X and myself?" I thought....well, I can take it. The answer was 41.5 -> 61 OK
happy.gif
I guess I'll just be sitting here waiting.
 

hilary

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Seconding that!!

I thought Clarissa just meant boring as in 'not enough replies'. Hm...

Matt, did you mean that Clarissa's answer might be talking to her direct, not about what X thinks of her? I'd say that's unlikely, but possible. Many would agree with you, I know - really not a pleasant prospect with this line.
 

bradford_h

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why doesn't anybody talk about the tortoise and how quickly it wanders away?
 

hilary

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Seconding Lightangel, that was. I need to write posts faster!

Er, Brad... you lost me.
 

clarissa

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"I thought Clarissa just meant boring as in 'not enough replies'."

That's what I meant.

Brad, I don't even understand the tortoise. What does it represent?
 
B

bruce

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I?ve always thought the term ?eat with your mouth closed? was conflicting. If the lizard waited past the moment, he wouldn?t have caught and eaten the spider.

Maybe your friend only thinks about something he lacks the belief or courage to act on.

5048.jpg
 

clarissa

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Hi Bruce,

Thanks for giving it a whirl...but I don't think we're going to figure this one out
happy.gif


I thought some more about what Hilary said regarding this particular question and yes...I can see how it's very difficult to determine what the Yi is really answering.
 
B

bruce

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LOL! Have to open to eat, Clarissa. I sure don't need the practice.
happy.gif
 

stuart

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This is a possible take on the 27 -1
presuming you are both in relationships that are satisfying-Then adding more when perhaps less is benificial- would not be the right sort of nourishment.The more is maybe someone who perhaps would like something more than friendship!.
Well i wouldnt know if you are both in relationships so maybe this does not help.
 

bradford_h

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Hilary
How could I lose you?
The Ling Gui, Spirit Tortoise or Medicine Tortoise is half the image of the line. Then there's the mouth hanging open, while the turtle roars away in a cloud of dust.
 

hilary

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As turtles do?
I rather thought it would be for divining with, and a bit past its 'wandering off' phase?
 
P

peace

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In my experience, asking about someone else never comes back with a clear answer.

I find it's best to ask about my own heart.

Susan
 
B

bruce

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Oddly, the Yi seems to have more endurance and patience than we do, sometimes. I'm not fond of the "what's he/she thinking of me" question, either, but I'm pretty sure Yi answers it, regardless.

I view the magic tortoise as providence, source of answers and nourishment - the oracle itself. But if not acknowledged, or at least pondered, it moves on, leaving the perplexed and drooping jaw behind.
 

bradford_h

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Hi Hilary
To me the word She, to let go, has always implied a living tortoise. The word is used in three other places in the Yi. In 22.1 one lets the carriage go to travel on foot. In 8.5x the king lets go of those who escape out the open side of the hunt. In 03.3 it's just quitting one's purpose.
If it is going off on its own, it's not going very far or fast. Besides longevity and prophesy, I think the tortoise also symbolized self-containment or self-sufficiency, the opposite of the neediness symbolized by the drooping jaw, which might even be drooling, expecting to be fed.
The simple things and needs in life are easily fulfilled. But because of that, it's easy to take them for granted. Bruce has a good interpretation here. Perhaps it's the value of what the relationship was that wants acknowledgement. And perhaps it hasn't wandered far from a potential recovery.
 

jte

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"...I think the tortoise also symbolized self-containment or self-sufficiency, the opposite of the neediness symbolized by the drooping jaw..."

Brad, FWIW that view fits well with my own experiences with 29.1 - I've always seen "letting go of the tortoise" as a symbol of giving up or losing one's independence. (This also matches what little I've read about the mythology of the tortoise creature referred to in the line - it was supposedly self-sustaining without food and water, per Wilhelm.)

So, inappropriate or overly intense emotional attachment might be one situation the line describes - one way of giving up independence...

- Jeff
 
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bruce

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fan yao 23.1: Losing footing, grounding or basis for.

In plain English, I think this guy is afraid to approach for fear of being dismissed or shot down. It doesn?t mean the attraction and desire isn?t there, just that it?s easier to get down in the mouth about it than to rely on his own and do something about it.
 

clarissa

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Brad and Jeff,

The idea that this is about giving up one's independence does indeed makes sense here. Thanks.

Bruce,

I don't know. I haven't seen this person in several years and we've always been just friends. However, who knows....you could be right. It could also reflect the fact that he feels *I* have lost my footing...which would tie in with the loss of independence. Several times during the conversation he said, "You need to get outta there."...so I have the feeling that he feels I'm the one who has lost the magic tortoise.
 

brian

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Yi;Bo

Some might come to consider this to be one of the more bitter and humbling places to be shown.

The rain rarely falls gently on that which is most dependant upon it.

Going on up to what is above with what one feels to be genuine concern, seeking an answer to a question, being admonished and scorned, turning oneself away, the heavens staring through ones own intentions and harshly revealing the askers own short comings as a means of addressing a careless question.

A woman approaching the high court dressed like a queen, made to feel naked, the courts attendants look past her garments, the council offends her with its honesty, enticing her to ridicule herself with her anger--she excuses herself from their presence, without being asked to leave.

Having to do with ones true motives, specifically where one is seeking to go behind the back of another, prying eyes looking out from behind a mask of concern. The sun asking the moon about the night as a means of avoiding the dark.

Yi becoming Bo is seen by some to be strongly tied to a very old and once popular riddle regarding lions and honey. As the story involving the riddle goes, those who answered the riddle failed to do so fully, plowing their fields with a calf they stole.
 

clarissa

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I think I may now have some insight now on that puzzling 41 -> 6 reading. I just received an email from this friend and he was apparently worried that he had cut me off during our phone conversation...had behaved badly. He went on to tell me about some trouble he's having there etc. So, lines 1 and 4 seem to make sense now...

Line 1 was his current state of affairs...very chaotic.

Line 4 was perhaps how he felt about what he perceived was bad behavior on his part.

Line 5....I have no real idea. Perhaps the Yi is simply saying that we do indeed have a good friendship?

The resulting 6 was obviously the fact that he felt a conflict might be present due to his behavior.
 

lightofdarkness

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27.1

Line 1
"One surpresses one's spirit to see only what is necessary. Unfortunate."

A missed opportunity? ;-) - in furnishing the 'new', despite an opportunity to 'splash out' through one's spirit, we stick to basic, practical, furnishings and so miss the opportunity to set-up a comfortable, dynamic, environment from which to work from/live in/grow into.

The overall focus of 27 is in adding meat and muscle to the skeletal form - and to do that in a discerning manner (mountain in top position reflects a focus on quality control - but this develops from mountain's more raw nature of self-restraint (more common when in the bottom position) - thus the traditional warning re what you take in as 'food')

We can interepret this as an opportunity to 'transcend' the current relational status but the discernment/self-restraint element was/is too strong.

The XOR of 27 with 27 gives us 02 - indicating a focus on POTENTIALS as being the skeletal form of 27 - IOW the core sense, the skeletal form, of 27 is about possibilities. - something common to the sense of devotion to others/another a la what could be.
 

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