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29 UN action or hanging in there?

dragona

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Greetings, just a quick question, if you will
is hex 29 unchanged
- telling the person to take action, move out of the 29 state - difficult one, so it would be logical
- suggesting to go with the flow of things, surrender to the rapids, let the water take you away and trow you out eventually
- not to give up on your hearts desire but to work carefully through the dangerous situation; slow and careful perseverance, tactfulness, even calculatedness

Hex 29 I only get when struggling, so wondering what goes for 29 unchanged.
( http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=6359 )
Tnank you, d. :bows:
 

Trojina

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Whether you decide to stay the course or depart with 29 unchanging is entirely down to whether you think its worth it.

Recently I did a cast for someone who had had a terrible time with stress at work and wondered if they should go off sick or stay till the end of the year when redundancy would be likley to be offered.

I said that what they had been suffering,.they described as feeling like they were going to die...like they couldn't cope, would be likley to return. I was therefore thinking this person probably should go off sick...

However he decided to go on and he told me the whole stress episode did return but he kept on through to the end and now has a large redundancy payment.


I learned alot of 29 uc from that. He was really hanging on by his coat tails but he personally wanted to continue. He'd had the job a very long time and I think wanted to leave on a high note rather than fade away due to sickness.

So to him it was worth it. It was a career he cared for....and I think he wanted to ride through the rough time. I think he may have seen it as a defeat if he hadn't.


However if the pain and suffering had not been worth it then it surely would have been the correct thing to leave.


29 does generally involve a roller coaster ride and hard times. If you can "hold your heart fast", as I believe he did, then it is good to continue...but not if its something thats not worth it to you.


The final months of a mans career may be very important to him .....hmmm but if I was asking "should i renew my gym membership" and got 29 , well I don't think I would.


You have to decide if something is important enough to take risks for it . So Yi doesn't tell you to keep on or give up....but if you are going to keep on, if its worth it, be prepared to be like a sailor sailing a stormy sea......and boldy go where no Dragona has gone before.


Of course in matters of the heart one cannot make these choices so consciously. In emotional matters rocky feelings, treacherous waters, return and return and endanger our mental health sometimes....LOL we may have to give them up or we may thrive on the ride till we exhaust ourselves.

However we are always learning with 29...same lesson over and over.

The man I spoke of had stress episodes all his working life. He loved his work and had to battle with these stress episodes over and over. Even this last period of time he had in the job he was tested again. I could tell it was something very personally important for him to overcome. And he did overcome :)
 
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dragona

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Thank you for this extensive explanation in a story, but isn`t it just the point - if you already knew if it was worth it, you would not feel 29`d, right? And unchanged to that...:cool:
In a moment of doubt, crisis, perhaps, yes...but I think it ultimately boils down to facing your fears
. Returning into the same behavioral pattern is a good point, makes sense:bows:

Incidentally, I heard of a story much similar to this one of yours...a man tried to commit suicide just very near to getting through to the pension...it diminished his income, which I found to be unfair - the stressful job made him do it in the first place....I wonder what cast he would have gotten..
 

Trojina

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Thank you for this extensive explanation in a story, but isn`t it just the point - if you already knew if it was worth it, you would not feel 29`d, right? And unchanged to that...:cool:
In a moment of doubt, crisis, perhaps, yes...but I think it ultimately boils down to facing your fears
. Returning into the same behavioral pattern is a good point, makes sense:bows:

..
:confused: eh ? I don't understand you well here. I wasn't talking about something being worth it in terms of results...theres never any guarantees with 29, we don't know whats coming. I was speaking of it being worth it in terms of simply how important something is to you to take risks, to have a rocky ride and not know the outcome


One can never 'boil' an entire hexagram down to a few words really. Facing fears may be the advice if something is important to you or perhaps something you desire. Other times 29 can just indicate that if you take that route you face an unpleasantly rocky ride and jeopardise your security.

For example If I am choosing which car to buy and get hex 29 for car A and hex 14 for car B the advice of 29 is not to 'face my fears' is it..its more like advice 'don't buy this car'

With 29 UC whether you take that rocky ride or not is up to you. Often with unchanging hexagram it asks you a question...or can tell you just how it is.

I only know if I ask a question and get 29 unchanging I'd be thinking quite carefully about how much risk I wanted to take. Not knowing the outcome it depends on how important something is, how determined I am , how willing I am to suffer to get where i want to be. 29 can be exciting since you don't know what will happen and although often the 'lessons' in 29 are repeated each time they feel new...as if you never did it before

I don't think theres one advice 29 'boils down' to it depends upon the question you ask. Sometimes facing your fears...taking a risky route really serves no purpose. No purpose to buying a dangerous car....I wasn't sure if there was a purpose to the man I spoke of returning to face more stress, it was his choice. I couldn't see how his health might be affected...but he chose to ride the rapids and succeeded. He didn't go under but he might have done. Thats the risk with 29....your choice and no safety nets and no guarantees. I wouldn't have said to him 'go back to work and all will be well' because I didn't know how steady he could hold himself....and neither did he. All his choice at that point.

Sorry for repetition ...can't be bothered to edit it out
 

Trojina

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29 isn't even always about fears...I think it can be very much about turbulent emotions that toss one about, that one can't master, that one has to go with. Often feelings one has grappled with before in life. So 29 uc can come up around a relationship thats pretty insecure...but you might be madly in love and be totally willing to take the ride and be totally bruised by it...OR you might think 'this isn't going to make me happy I don't want this, i don't want all these repetitive chasms of insecurity opening beneath me all the time, I'm off'

Theres no instruction or judgment there . Yi isn't saying you have to do this or that...more like theres the boat theres the swirling water, do you want to get in ?

Of course we could get 29 about anything...the bath flooding...is that time to face our fears lol ? Our pet gerbils health...is that an instruction for the gerbil to face his fears or should we take him to the vet because he has a recurrent and rather nasty illness
 

dragona

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Well, of course it depends on the matter we are asking upon and of course one can`t boil the hex down to one meaning. These things go without saying, I thought.
However, there is a theme and the image to it. I think it is pretty clear that water depicts emotional issues here. I got hex 29 for asking on that subject, in turmoil times or crises.
I suppose one can get it for anything, but for me it was not the case so far with hex 29.
I was trying to frame the possibilities here, in terms of action advised within the text, to frame it in a way.
So far, it looks like the 3rd option - connectedness to the heart and again, no fear in pursuing once in the deep water.
 

meng

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Couple thoughts to offer.

One: when a hexagram is made of doubled trigrams, I can usually achieve the clearest idea of that hexagram by understanding the basic attributes of that element, that trigram. So, double the elements of Kan and there is abyss upon abyss. Or, depth upon depth. Whether fearlessness is such a good thing, I would argue. Most of the time real danger can be averted through situational awareness, but real fear is a potent motivator in a fight or flight scenario.

Two: an element I got from Chris Lofting regarding 29 is that it can also represent obsessive-compulsive disorders. Also more benign habits we form, especially as children, it is the same element at work, that of falling or climbing, but in either case, there is no bottom that you know of for certain. Even a little repetitive gesture like "knock on wood" has strong attributes of 29. So, in practical terms there may be subtext like "okay, but don't make a habit of it."

The symbolic similarity between repetitive subconscious (e)motions/actions and danger/abyss is pretty obvious. Someone smokes a pack of cigarettes over a year, then the next twenty years smokes a pack a day, Big 29 at work there. Water can be seriously dangerous stuff. But, it's the same attributes which make it dangerous that make it so alluring. A Part of everyone wants to get closer to the edge to see down. And the analogy holds up, because if for a few moments you could be conscious within the powerful mountain river, and suddenly and without warning, you were tossed off the edge of a high cliff, to smash into the rocks below, if you were water, you'd be very used to that, it would be all you would know. The Dao is most often associated with water.
 

dragona

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Whether fearlessness is such a good thing, I would argue. Most of the time real danger can be averted through situational awareness, but real fear is a potent motivator in a fight or flight scenario.
Fearless can mean stupid. Perhaps the better word would be without panic.
 

meng

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Fearless can mean stupid. Perhaps the better word would be without panic.
You just reminded me of an old story. My older boy, then around 10, and I were fishing a pretty good size pond for bass. On the other side was a herd of cows and one very big bull. The bull began making threatening signs to us, we just laughed because he was so far away, so we just kept on fishing, catching, releasing bass. Only when I looked up at the herd, the bull was missing. Upon looking around I noticed he was already halfway around the pond running toward us in a fury. I yelled to my son, "RUN!" And grabbed our gear (cuz we didn't want to have to back for it later) and ran up that grassy hill to the big tree, leaned our rods against the tree and climbed up and out of range of the bull. The bull pissed and snorted and made his way back to his herd on the other side. The funny thing about it was that during the entire time I couldn't stop laughing. My son was like, what's wrong with you! Why were you laughing? It just looked funny in my mind. Absolutely stupid fearless.
 

lilita

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Hi all, I just received Hex 29 last night, also in response to a relationship question and was reading all the comments here about fear and whatnot. Then today I just happened to stumble across this story - and a light bulb popped on in my head. This is a story about a soldier who had spent much time in Iraq. He was speaking to someone about the book The Way of the Warrior, about the Samurai code of honor. It was a very important book from him... here's an excerpt from this article by Denise Linn...

------------------------------

He said, “In Iraq I woke up every morning accepting my death. I know that this sounds strange, but it gave me a kind of peace. I wasn’t afraid of dying in battle, because I had already accepted my death. This allowed a kind of peace to fill me and maybe it also helped keep me safe because on the battlefield I wasn’t always reacting out of fear.”

I told him that I was of Cherokee heritage, and Native American warriors had a similar code. My ancestors would wake up in the morning and say, “It’s a good day to die.” This didn’t mean that they wanted to die, but it meant that in every moment there was a feeling of completion and a satisfaction. In a way, this is totally being in the present moment. It is a powerful stand to take in life. Accepting. Open. Present. Aware.

-------------------------------

Maybe the meaning of Hex 29, "danger repeated", is about coming to a place where by encountering fear (our fears?) over and over again we finally learn to transcend them - flowing like water around all obstacles - unstoppable. Kind of like Love. Somewhere I read that Hex 29 means "diving in"! Embracing all we encounter! :) The tantra of life. Also, water is associated with feelings and emotion. Love is dangerous territory! But as Wilhelm translates "If you are sincere, you have success in your heart, and whatever you do succeeds."

LiSe talks about repeating patterns with regard to 29. My, how we sabotage ourselves with patterns of behaviour embedded in our subconscious! These are patterns we have to get over! Repetition and practice as a way of overcoming our fears.

The name "The Abysmal" sounds so ominous at first glance, but really I think it's a positive hexagram. And Jaliya on her blog, "The Quotable I Ching" titles her entry about 29 "In the Deeps", which pretty much sums up what it is to be in love.

So, Dive In... LOVE to you ALL!
 

ariel13

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Lilita,
I know this is a very late response to this post, but I just found it when searching for something else and wanted to thank you for it. It is lovely and is really meaningful to me. Incidentally, I just asked a question and was perplexed by the 29 unchanging answer. The question was "How can I forget about X and live in the now?"

Accepting. Open. Present. Aware. Dive in! Love!

Beautiful.

You have really given me something wonderful to think about, and I am flummoxed at how accurately it addresses my question.

Thank you for your wonderful insight!
 

knotxx

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29uc reminds me of driving through a flooded street, which I have had to do occasionally, as it floods around here a lot. It's quite dangerous so it's only ever happened to me accidentally, but once you're in it, you really want to keep driving, not stop in a panic and sit there as your car is carried off. Like everyone in this thread, I've most often had it during big emotional turbulence, often when I was casting in tears -- right, but don't get STUCK in the tears, keep crying, get through it, get out the other side.

Get out the other side is your aim, I think.

I do like "today is a good day to die" as a synonym for "hold fast the heart." (Although, because I love that sentence, years ago I asked yi for a line to match with it, and got 20.5, which was interesting and unexpected to me.)
 
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sooo

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I tend to walk away from 29 until things settle down a little. I keep in mind the learning/teaching aspect through repetition of danger, but it initially slows me down, cools my jets, before moving toward the edge or confrontation.
 

petra

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hi all, i've just got hex 29 UC answering my question: what am i doing now?

the background: i'm at jet another attempt to grow and fix my relationship with my partner that we both abused for quite some time now and made ourselves and our kids miserable and mad. the pain of letting us go separate ways is too big for us to handle (right now) and we really did hit the bottom of non-comunication that didn't bring us to any solution, just emotional numbness and despair with multiplying health issues. we both agreed to give it one more try. my part is to let my ego go, 'cause it's driving me into seeing negative aspect of everything and driving me nuts and i can't see or feel a good solution outside the situation for now.

the advice to practice "today is a good day to die" routine shows me a way to accept the situation of us being together now as we are now and with two small kids and ride the great waves of my emotions - what i really am inside can not die, what i'm not should - so that i can see how to lead my life - i'm hanging by the straw here but hanging nevertheless ...

the oracle is so to the point

and thanks to posters in this thread for suggestions, opinions and meditations :bows:
 

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