3 ways to consult an oracle

[martin]

Kevin, that is an unexpected development!

Candid, I agree, it goes beyond that.
As LiSe said: "If I can figure it out, I will let you know."

 

[pagan]

Two points here. One involves the notion of Character=destiny again. If we are aggressive in character, there will be accidents, destruction, broken bonds etc. in the future. When that character changes, then the future changes. If a person's characater is soft and weak, that person's future will be abused and eaten alive by predators. It is a mathematical certainty.

Secondly, I notice many post questions from a standpoint that is already answered in the IC. For example, when involved with a married man (perhaps hex 54) the IC says "relationships that are based on personal affection but not protected by law (such as marriage) rely entirely on self restraint. You cannot presume upon them and you can't expect anything and you really have no power in the situation. So, if that is the situation you are in, the answer is already contained in the text of the IC and doesn't need a new answer.

It would seem to me that rather than doing the oracle, throwing coins or any other method, you should just seek the answer as it is already addressed in the IC. Using the IC as an oracle can confuse the point. If you want to know about the future, the 'rules' are already laid out in the IC and your answer is there if you study it.

Can anyone think of a question that isn't already answered in the IC?
P.

 

[hilary]

Yes:
"Which hexagram and line best describe the situation I'm in?"

 

[martin]

Wow Hilary, that's clever.

And true ...

 

[candid]

Exactly. It?s all in there, true, but where am I (or whomever) at this time, and what conditions are prevailing and countervailing?

 

[lindsay]

And that's why the Yi is an oracle and is not a scripture.

 

[pagan]

Sometimes the IC seems like a parent that knows the dangers that the unexperienced child has no cognition of. I do a daily reading in the morning and today I received hexagram 29. I had no idea of any danger, but it seems like the Sage did. (it was 60 line 1 changing to 29). I just decided that today I don't really need to do anything so I stayed home and cleaned out cupboards and simple stuff. If there was some danger I never saw it because I followed the direction of the Sage and stayed indoors.

Hillary, do you ever stop to consider what hexagram and line best fits the situation you are in? And then compare your own perception to what the oracle gives as an answer?
P.

 

[hilary]

Not as a rule... though sometimes when I've got a line or two into the casting, I'll find myself anticipating the answer. And like I was saying, I do naturally think of hexagrams in association with ideas when reading.

I think when I do anticipate what hexagram I'll receive, this comes from something deeper and less rational than a consideration of the best fit, though.

 

[jeanystar]

I love to be the individual looking towards the shaman to ignite my own creativity/intution......and yet, I can think of many times when the Yi proved to be an invaluable friend and guide when I was necessarily the "insecure child" and a scaredy cat with no one else to turn to in the immediate sense.

One example comes to mind: My husband was away and my 10yr old and went out for sushi. An hour after we got home, my daughter doubled over with stomach cramps. I was concerned and at first, just told her to breathe deep....but then she turned sheet-white and what threw me into a real panic was that she got down on her knees and started sobbing and praying to God. This was not only unusual but highly uncharacteristic. I was scared, to put it mildly, and my hands were trembling, I called an ambulance and then, kneeling next to her, I threw the coins. I didnt even formulate a question. I was just seeking a panic-overview.

The Yi gave me 21.3.....and all I remember from whatever simple text I had then was that it was a problem with poison and that there was no error or harm. I had enough trust in the Yi at that point in my life to feel assured, altho I was quite helpless to change anything. A minute or so later, she vomited and the pains stopped.

another instance was when I was about to drive 5 hours up a highway into New England on a clear winter's night by myself. I asked for an overview of my trip and got 29. 5 or 6..I forget which. I thought that sounded ominous but people were expecting me, so uneasily, I took off.

two hours later, I hit a blinding blizzard, the roads were absolutely treachourous and the traffic was at a snail's pace with cars skidding off to the sides, and across lanes. I made it, but oh, how I wished I had listened to the oracle.

When asking about the immediate future, pending trips, or likely conditions, I take the Yi very seriously. from that day forward. sometimes it seems we dont have the luxury to be creative and sometimes an answer is black and white. Ignore it at your own peril type of thing.

I guess my point is that the YI is a wise old advisor on issues that require thought and decision, but I dont underestimate it, and actually adore it, as a seeing friend and a trusted guide in those times when I am very frightened and/or "feeling" helpless and insecure.

 

[heylise]

Jeany, I love your post. I think you are completely right. Happy I started this thread, because I am learning a lot myself.

One thing is staying in my mind through all the posts, and that is a tiny remark of Candid, at the very beginning ... him again, 'course , he has a way of making all my thinking stumble - darn. "What would coyote say?"
Most people think that they think rationally, or at least coherently, but in reality it looks as emotional as a bumblebee. LiSe is no exception.

"What would coyote say..." going to find that out today.

LiSe/coyote

 

[martin]

There is another aspect to this and that is that although emotion may hinder when we try to interpret an answer it seems to enhance the connection with (what is behind) the oracle. At least that is my experience. Answers tend to be clearer and more direct, more to the point, when one is in a state of agitation. If I remember correctly research into ESP and telepathy (Rhine?) points in the same direction. It "works" better when emotion is involved. It doesn't work very well with neutral messages.

A thought pops into my mind: "a desperate call for help is heard throughout the entire universe."
There is some truth in that, I think. When we are emotional (upset, agitated, desperate) we are in a state of high energy and that energy can pierce through barriers between worlds and open channels that otherwise remain closed.

 

[heylise]

This is very much my own experience too. There has been a (long) time, when I was in a very difficult situation, and every question to the Yi was a desperate cry for help. All the answers hit target.
Usually I ran to the Yi, threw the coins, with or without a question, and certainly never a well-phrased one, and then burst out in a mix of crying and laughing, grateful for the insight. I read the texts but had no trouble at all to interpret them. It was as if a very nice, very wise old sage comforted me in simple direct words.

Now my life is obviously in good shape: I often have trouble to find the meaning.

LiSe

 

[martin]

I once had an odd experience with a desperate call for help. I had serious problems with my health and a being from another world (yes, I know, that's also odd, sorry

) was helping me. I called him "the doctor" at that time and later "the master", because I realized that he was much more than a doctor or a healer. He was (and is) my final teacher, my satguru.
Anyway, the treatment wasn't very successful, although in fact it was, but I didn't understand that. There was a relapse, old symptoms reappeared and it felt like I was going down, down again. I was desperate, and angry. He - the doctor - had promised to help me and it looked like he didn't. Had he fooled me, like all those other (human) doctors?
One morning, when I came out of bed and felt very ill I started to shout at him. I don't remember what I said exactly, something like <profanity> I guess. In any case, it was certainly not what one would expect to hear from someone who is supposedly addressing a higher being

.
And I probably didn't expect that he would respond to my outburst. But he did. Two hands appeared (that was one of the ways he communicated with me, through hand gestures) and what they expressed was "Sorry, there is nothing I can do about this, I'm very sorry."
I was stunned. Here was this being, so much wiser than me. I, little stupid human, had shouted at him and he ... apologized!
Incredible.

 

[jeanystar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

A thought pops into my mind: "a desperate call for help is heard throughout the entire universe." <!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>
and
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Usually I ran to the Yi, threw the coins, with or without a question, and certainly never a well-phrased one, and then burst out in a mix of crying and laughing, grateful for the insight. I read the texts but had no trouble at all to interpret them. It was as if a very nice, very wise old sage comforted me in simple direct words.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>
YES, Yes, Yes...to these two sentiments...and it is such a blessing to have this experience!

VERY interesting story Martin... love it.

 

[candid]

I love it when folks get beneath all the mind analysis and down into the gut level of their Yi experiences.

 

[pagan]

Several of my friends have mentioned to me that I am 'addicted' to the IC. They questioned "would the Sage want you to be dependent on throwing coins and looking up answers in a book?"

I feel like it becomes a question of the 'middle way' which doesn't go to extremes and follows a moderate approach.

I was taking a road trip across the US and it didn't really matter if I went the northern route or the southern route so I decided to as the IC about it. I was surprised how adamant the IC seemed to favor the northern route. Halfway through Kansas I stopped at a rest stop and found out that there was a tornado that had just hit the southern route, and blew out windows of houses and overturned cars etc. It is moments like that which make me feel humble and devoted to the Sage.

Nevertheless, I also feel that there are times when I asked the IC sort of indulgently, when I might have applied my own understanding of the IC's prinicples to the question before I ran to the coins.
P.

 

[jte]

"would the Sage want you to be dependent on throwing coins and looking up answers in a book?

...it becomes a question of the 'middle way' which doesn't go to extremes ..."

I believe the same, Pagan: it's important if you feel you're becoming *dependent* on the IC to take a break and stand on your own two feet only for a bit. In my view, someone who wants the best for others doesn't want to become a crutch to them. A springboard, not a crutch...

- Jeff

 

[hilary]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

A springboard, not a crutch...<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>Lovely image! (And imagine the mess you'd get into trying to use a springboard as crutch...)

And I also agree no end with LiSe and Martin: Yi has always answered my cries for help absolutely directly.

 

[martin]

Addiction to the Yi - without throwing coins I would say that 57.6 fits here (and 57.2 to a lesser extent).

And I was wondering, have some of you ever tried to cast hexagrams in your head, for instance by throwing imaginary coins?
I did something like that in the past sometimes, but not with coins and perhaps it's a good idea to (try to) learn it. Even if it is only an exercise in visualization, but I suspect that there is more in it than that.
Perhaps it can reveal how this so called 'randomness' works in the inner worlds and shed more light on what it really is?

 

[candid]

Martin, interesting question.

For awhile, about two years ago, I was practicing a little ritual each morning. First, I?d lie there, focusing my attention on doing an imaginary reading. I?d just dwell there and allow the reading to unfold in my mind. Then after I was up awhile, I?d toss the coins. After 3-4 days, the readings were coming out to the same hexagrams as I?d imagined a short while before. Not all the change lines, relating hex and such, but the primary hexagram would come up about 3 out of 5 times the same. I was excited about this and mentioned here on the board. But the practice just slipped away.

 

[tashij]

wow Martin what a great idea.

 

[tashij]

maybe that's the 4th way. ...

 

[candid]

Further explanation: When I did this exercise there was a specific question in mind. It wasn?t a blind test against itself. My thoughts at the time wondered if the oracle's roots, which had embedded into me over time, were going to work, or if it was just the synching up of the two events in time.

 

[martin]

Did the hexagram appear spontaneously, Candid?
I mean, without any activity on your part that you were aware of, except holding the question in mind?

 

[martin]

I bet that Tashij is throwing imaginary coins now ..
Tashij?

 

[martin]

Of course, in the inner world they are real ..

 

[tashij]

Hey Martin. Not yet, got to keep both feet on the ground right now. But for the future, I really do think this is a fascinating idea. You have a lot of freedom in your thinking Martin, and I have enjoyed your posts. The Yi has helped me tremendously. Yi has helped navigate me through a very difficult almost 7 year cycle. These Pluto transits are so damn slow. So these days I throw sparingly, but when I do, it Yi really sings, and I try to listen. I try to not put too much visualization in my mind right now, just happy with things as they are. Recently encountered Hua Ching Ni's book. wow. Im so happy with it. Also I am reading Sylvia Plath. I love her writing.

Good to hear your experience Candid.

 

[martin]

Yes, these Pluto transits can be heavy.

 

[martin]

But after the transit ...

 

[candid]

Martin, I didn't see the lines building, just quotes from the text would enter my mind, and then the image of the hexagram name would be recognized therein.

Again, was I answering my own question logically, based on prior knowledge of cause/effect as it pertains to Yi's examples? Was there something more magical going on? Or was it a time connection event? I never did answer that question.

Thanks Tash