30.4.6 changing to 36

[Inbalski]

So hi it's me again the girl who is hopelessly inlove with the boyfriend who cheated on her mainly because he is schizophrenic.
I asked the iching : does he love me enough to make the changes needed to be made inorder for us to get back together again and got 30.4.6 changing to 36.
So what do you think it means?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated

 

[ontheroad]

Is he saying my Schizophrenia made me do it??!!

 

[HansKr]

Is he saying my Schizophrenia made me do it??!!

If he does, he is completely honest and it is no excuse.
Schizophrenia is a serious mental illness.
I have a brother with schizophrenia and have experienced (from fairly close) for more than 40 years what it is like for someone to suffer from it. Even with medication and therapy, behaviour often remains unpredictable.
It is painful to read Inbalski's earlier posts and the reactions to them, because it is evident everyone is pretty ignorant about what schizophrenia really is.
Making demands on someone with schizophrenia (see earlier post) and asking them to change is roughly equivalent to asking that person to cure themselves of schizophrenia.

The question whether he loves you enough to change is totally irrelevant in this case, because he has no control over his own behaviour. If you love him, first get very well informed about this mental illness and the behaviour it brings and then decide whether you can live with it or not. He will not change, not because he does not want to but simply because he cannot.

 

[Trojina]

Well said, I'm relieved someone has pointed this out.

I was taken aback in this earlier thread Inbalski when you said you were going to try to impose conditions and make the guy go to a Vipissana retreat which frankly I wouldn't think was a reasonable expectation of someone diagnosed with Schizophrenia and multiple addictions. They can't just stop and as outlined by Hans above Schizophrenia is a serious mental illness. I wonder if you are using the term casually (as some do imagining it is just like a dual personality which is incorrect) or if your boyfriend has actually been diagnosed ?

So hi it's me again the girl who is hopelessly inlove with the boyfriend who cheated on her mainly because he is schizophrenic.
I asked the iching : does he love me enough to make the changes needed to be made inorder for us to get back together again and got 30.4.6 changing to 36.

If you understand what schizophrenia actually is you would see it simply isn't realistic to expect if he loves you enough he can just change. People with schizophrenia can't just decide not to have it. It's quite important to be clear about using this word to describe him since your questions don't make much sense if he is indeed a diagnosed schizophrenic.

 

[Inbalski]

Well from the reactions here I can see I haven't explained myself clearly enough. I am perfectly aware of what schizophrenia is all about because my mother has schizophrenia and I grew up watching her and experiencing it from very close. I am not saying that I'm asking him to become without schizophrenia. What I meant by changing meant starting to take care of himself starting to exercise quit smoking quit weed quit with making poor choices and start making healthy choices I wasn't saying will he change and stop being schizophrenic and yes he is diagnosed I meant more in the sense of will he make the choice of taking control over his life and not live any longer in such self neglect and lack of self love and care.

 

[HansKr]

I am perfectly aware of what schizophrenia is all about because my mother has schizophrenia and I grew up watching her and experiencing it from very close.

If that is so then I am even more baffled by the demands you make of him.

I wasn't saying will he change and stop being schizophrenic

That is not what I said. I said "Making demands on someone with schizophrenia (see earlier post) and asking them to change is roughly equivalent to asking that person to cure themselves of schizophrenia."
These are your some of your demands "starting to take care of himself starting to exercise quit smoking quit weed quit with making poor choices and start making healthy choices".
This list of demands would already be difficult and time-consuming for someone who does not suffer from schizophrenia, and besides, it would only work when someone is motivated to make these changes themselves and not because it is demanded of them, let alone for someone with a serious mental illness.

...will he make the choice of taking control over his life and not live any longer in such self neglect and lack of self love and care.

Don't you get it, he has no or little control over his life because of his illness. He has no control over his thinking disorder, his delusions, his lack of motivation, his eratic behaviour, etc. These are precisely some of the characteristics of someone with schizophrenia. Yes there are periods when things seem to be going better, but just as many periods when there are relapses.

 

[Inbalski]

Well I highly disagree with you.he is a high functioning individual. He studies and works and manages to take responsibility for these areas in his life. I'm not saying that it will be easy or that the fact that he has schizophrenia wouldn't make it harder on him to make these changes. I strongly believe that there is a lot that can be done to make his situation better, and part of it is in his hands. And it's not like I believe that his love for me has anything to do with these changes, I was wondering if it will be enough to motivate him to make the effort.

 

[ontheroad]

It sounds like trauma bonding to me, given your mother had it.
On the other level if you decide to be with someone with a serious illness then yes, you need to learn to live with it because it's never going to change.
It doesn't matter if their highly functioning or not they still have the mental health issue.

 

[HansKr]

Don't get me wrong, someone with schizophrenia can lead a "normal" life.
With this illness, it is possible to function and have quality of life, but the illness comes with challenges. Lack of motivation and addictions are just 2 of the symptoms that someone with schizophrenia continues to show even if they receive therapy and are on medication.
Do yourself a favour and, possibly together with him, talk to his/a psychiatrist. He/she will be able to tell you exactly what to expect. What can and cannot be achieved.

 

[Inbalski]

Thank you for the advice and the opinion.
I will tell him that I want to meet his therapist to understand more. I love him very much and even though his choices and actions have triggered alot of pain and hardship, I still want to believe that there is hope for him and that he can have a better life, possibly along my side. I am willing to forgive and try to find ways to a better healthier life. I did a reading this morning and asked what is the potential of our relationship and got 50 unchanged Which seems very auspicious to me, and it greatly surprised me . I understand all of the comments here, but there are also many details to the story I haven't shared here and it's very easy to judge the situation and me .
Why has nobody said anything about the reading I got?
I would really appreciate if some of you could share your own insights about both of the readings.
Thank you

 

[my_key]

I asked the iching : does he love me enough to make the changes needed to be made in order for us to get back together again and got 30.4.6 changing to 36.
So what do you think it means?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated

Hi Inbalski

30:4.6 <> 36
'Bright Omens' through 'Brightness Hiding'

The situation that you ask for insights about is one that carries around it a sense of being an outcast. It is, though, bathed in protection against the hidden influences that are destined to make the forthcoming task a difficult one. A task in which encouragement is given to pull back from allowing light to shine as brightly as it might (36).

30 speaks of a growing awareness that will need a sacrifice to be made in order for the situation to be fully harvested. Yi advocates that this is best achieved, for the Noble One, through aligning more completely with the great within. Once this connection has been made it will radiate outwards into everything else.

30.4 - Speaks to a place within that guides the choices made, in order for the right road to be more easily walked. Be mindful that any sudden flaring up and dying down cycle that occurs is not something that brings authentic connection.

30.6 - The wisdom to be found in this situation is for the King to regain order. Question what are behind the flare ups 'sever the heads' of the rebel leaders in order to rectify the situation.

As I was exploring this reading, it did arise in me the thought that your question seems to be more about you and what you want, rather than what is best for this person you love so hopelessly. I am aware this may not be seen by you as your truth. 'Hopelessly in love' could be seen, by some, as something taking you away from a common sense path. I know, for one, that my rebel leaders have guided me towards doing some pretty crazy things when I have been hopelessly in love.

Indeed, I'll ask the question here "How can love itself be hopeless? Love shines eternal! Perhaps, it is what resides around the outskirts of love in your world that carries your felt sense of hopelessness. Hopelessness very often carries with it feelings of despair.

Additionally, my mind has been drawn back to your previous consultations, where, from memory, you were counselled by Yi to not let the lesser aspects of your self retain a controlling interest. Maybe the situation you are enquiring about now would benefit from you looking at all of your recent casts as one big consultation. As you say this is a very complex situation with many of the contents of the tale not shared to this public form and rightly so. I sincerely hope you find the insights that you are looking for.

... of course there may be other ways that you wish to interpret your consultations. I have offered mine: others may choose to post their interpretations as well.

Good luck

 

[ontheroad]

My_key that's beautifully heart-warming and caring....life is so much at times, it's difficult to keep clarity especially when we love someone so much.

 

[rosada]

Trying to link these ideas to the hexagrams…

Does he love me enough to make the necessary changes?

30.
Care of the cow brings good fortune.
Taking care of one’s physical being is a good thing.
Perpetuating good habits can increase one’s good health.

However…
30.4
It flames up, dies, is thrown away.
One can feel inspired and vow to do better but will the good intentions last?
30.6
The king kills the leaders and take captives the followers.
Better to root out bad habits but tolerate those that are harmless.

36.
In adversity, it furthers one to be persevering.

Together these hexagrams seem to me to be saying his illness, this adversity, is not going away but you can find a way to persevere. The advice then seems to be that while it is a good thing for him to take care of his health, you may find that even if he resolves to do better his good intentions may not be able to hold up. Be prepared for relapses.(30.4) Also it may be that he will be able to change some habits but you should be prepared to tolerate those he can’t. (30.6)
36. Seems like the I Ching is throwing the question back on you - do you love him enough to hang in there even if he can’t change?
(Please know I am not being snarky and insinuating that you should, I’m just trying to make sense out of the hexagram.)

 

[Inbalski]

Hi Inbalski

30:4.6 <> 36
'Bright Omens' through 'Brightness Hiding'

The situation that you ask for insights about is one that carries around it a sense of being an outcast. It is, though, bathed in protection against the hidden influences that are destined to make the forthcoming task a difficult one. A task in which encouragement is given to pull back from allowing light to shine as brightly as it might (36).

30 speaks of a growing awareness that will need a sacrifice to be made in order for the situation to be fully harvested. Yi advocates that this is best achieved, for the Noble One, through aligning more completely with the great within. Once this connection has been made it will radiate outwards into everything else.

30.4 - Speaks to a place within that guides the choices made, in order for the right road to be more easily walked. Be mindful that any sudden flaring up and dying down cycle that occurs is not something that brings authentic connection.

30.6 - The wisdom to be found in this situation is for the King to regain order. Question what are behind the flare ups 'sever the heads' of the rebel leaders in order to rectify the situation.

As I was exploring this reading, it did arise in me the thought that your question seems to be more about you and what you want, rather than what is best for this person you love so hopelessly. I am aware this may not be seen by you as your truth. 'Hopelessly in love' could be seen, by some, as something taking you away from a common sense path. I know, for one, that my rebel leaders have guided me towards doing some pretty crazy things when I have been hopelessly in love.

Indeed, I'll ask the question here "How can love itself be hopeless? Love shines eternal! Perhaps, it is what resides around the outskirts of love in your world that carries your felt sense of hopelessness. Hopelessness very often carries with it feelings of despair.

Additionally, my mind has been drawn back to your previous consultations, where, from memory, you were counselled by Yi to not let the lesser aspects of your self retain a controlling interest. Maybe the situation you are enquiring about now would benefit from you looking at all of your recent casts as one big consultation. As you say this is a very complex situation with many of the contents of the tale not shared to this public form and rightly so. I sincerely hope you find the insights that you are looking for.

... of course there may be other ways that you wish to interpret your consultations. I have offered mine: others may choose to post their interpretations as well.

Good luck

Hi Inbalski

30:4.6 <> 36
'Bright Omens' through 'Brightness Hiding'

The situation that you ask for insights about is one that carries around it a sense of being an outcast. It is, though, bathed in protection against the hidden influences that are destined to make the forthcoming task a difficult one. A task in which encouragement is given to pull back from allowing light to shine as brightly as it might (36).

30 speaks of a growing awareness that will need a sacrifice to be made in order for the situation to be fully harvested. Yi advocates that this is best achieved, for the Noble One, through aligning more completely with the great within. Once this connection has been made it will radiate outwards into everything else.

30.4 - Speaks to a place within that guides the choices made, in order for the right road to be more easily walked. Be mindful that any sudden flaring up and dying down cycle that occurs is not something that brings authentic connection.

30.6 - The wisdom to be found in this situation is for the King to regain order. Question what are behind the flare ups 'sever the heads' of the rebel leaders in order to rectify the situation.

As I was exploring this reading, it did arise in me the thought that your question seems to be more about you and what you want, rather than what is best for this person you love so hopelessly. I am aware this may not be seen by you as your truth. 'Hopelessly in love' could be seen, by some, as something taking you away from a common sense path. I know, for one, that my rebel leaders have guided me towards doing some pretty crazy things when I have been hopelessly in love.

Indeed, I'll ask the question here "How can love itself be hopeless? Love shines eternal! Perhaps, it is what resides around the outskirts of love in your world that carries your felt sense of hopelessness. Hopelessness very often carries with it feelings of despair.

Additionally, my mind has been drawn back to your previous consultations, where, from memory, you were counselled by Yi to not let the lesser aspects of your self retain a controlling interest. Maybe the situation you are enquiring about now would benefit from you looking at all of your recent casts as one big consultation. As you say this is a very complex situation with many of the contents of the tale not shared to this public form and rightly so. I sincerely hope you find the insights that you are looking for.

... of course there may be other ways that you wish to interpret your consultations. I have offered mine: others may choose to post their interpretations as well.

Good luck

Wow I have so many questions...

"30 speaks of a growing awareness that will need a sacrifice to be made in order for the situation to be fully harvested. Yi advocates that this is best achieved, for the Noble One, through aligning more completely with the great within. Once this connection has been made it will radiate outwards into everything else."

How do I do that? How do I start walking on that road ? And what kind of sacrifice? I'm Willing to make sacrifices but not any kind of sacrifice... How do I find out?
And how do I align more completely with the great within? Maybe through vipassana?

"Be mindful that any sudden flaring up and dying down cycle that occurs is not something that brings authentic connection."

Could you please explain this? Do you mean that I should stop judging his actions and just continue to be there for him even though these choices he makes trigger pain in me?


"30.6 - The wisdom to be found in this situation is for the King to regain order. Question what are behind the flare ups 'sever the heads' of the rebel leaders in order to rectify the situation."

Any suggestions on how to gain more clarity there?



"As I was exploring this reading, it did arise in me the thought that your question seems to be more about you and what you want, rather than what is best for this person you love so hopelessly. I am aware this may not be seen by you as your truth. 'Hopelessly in love' could be seen, by some, as something taking you away from a common sense path. I know, for one, that my rebel leaders have guided me towards doing some pretty crazy things when I have been hopelessly in love.
Indeed, I'll ask the question here "How can love itself be hopeless? Love shines eternal! Perhaps, it is what resides around the outskirts of love in your world that carries your felt sense of hopelessness. Hopelessness very often carries with it feelings of despair."



Yes It does take me away from the common sense path. Because I seem to be unable/unwilling to detach myself from him even though his choices and actions triggered so much pain, so when I say hopeless I mean that the hopelessness is in the fact that I struggle choosing myself and what is the best for me in this situation. Of course the Love I feel can never be hopeless because it's there and it will never disappear.

Thank you for responding with so much detail and compassion

If I may ask, what do you think of the last reading I drew yesterday,where I asked what is the potential of our relationship and got 50 unchanged?

 

[Inbalski]

Trying to link these ideas to the hexagrams…

Does he love me enough to make the necessary changes?

30.
Care of the cow brings good fortune.
Taking care of one’s physical being is a good thing.
Perpetuating good habits can increase one’s good health.

However…
30.4
It flames up, dies, is thrown away.
One can feel inspired and vow to do better but will the good intentions last?
30.6
The king kills the leaders and take captives the followers.
Better to root out bad habits but tolerate those that are harmless.

36.
In adversity, it furthers one to be persevering.

Together these hexagrams seem to me to be saying his illness, this adversity, is not going away but you can find a way to persevere. The advice then seems to be that while it is a good thing for him to take care of his health, you may find that even if he resolves to do better is good intentions may not be able to hold up. Be prepared for relapses.(30.4) Also it may be that he will be able to change some habits but you should be prepared to tolerate those he can’t.
36. Seems like the I Ching is throwing the question back on you - do you love him enough to hang in there even if he can’t change?
(Please know I am not being snarky and insinuating that you should, I’m just trying to make sense out of the hexagram.)

Thank you Rosada
I resonant with how you look at this reading.
I don't know yet what I'm willing to do for this love.
I think the best thing I could do right now is to ask my ex to talk together with his therapist and understand what is possible.
From there I might be able to understand if I'm up for it

 

[my_key]

What is the potential of our relationship?
50: 'Establishing the New'

"The superior person rectifies his position
And fulfills the will of Heaven" (Huang)

The nuclear of 50 is 43 'Eliminating'. This will be providing the deep underlying currents to guide you on your quest into obtaining the message that this latest question brings. As such 50 carries a strong sense of grasping renewal.

... ot there may be other interpretations that you can align yourself with.

Good Luck

 

[Inbalski]

Can you explain more? I am not sure I understand...
And do you think the general vibe of the readings guides me to persevere?
Do you think it would be good to also ask if the best thing is to let go of him?

 

[my_key]

Can you explain more? I am not sure I understand...
And do you think the general vibe of the readings guides me to persevere?
Do you think it would be good to also ask if the best thing is to let go of him?

Hi Inbalski
You have 3 readings to explore already and still you want more.
Most times it is important that you make your own decisions about what a reading might mean for you and how you engage with it in your life. I have said what it means for me, and telling you more about what it means for me is robbing you of a fantastic opportunity to discover what it means for you.

Perhaps you would like to post what the reading means for you or what you are making of the 'general vibes'. Remember, that it is important that we each live our lives following our own vibes. Trust yourself enough to follow your own vibes.

Good Luck

 

[rosada]

Like a pot of soup, 50. The Sacred Caldron can indicate a situation made up of all sorts of different ingredients and a feeling that all are welcome. As an indication of the potential of a relationship I see this hexagram as indicating a feeling of spiritual connection and also there may be other people involved - therapists perhaps. Real potential for spiritual growth and broadening your understanding.