51-1-16 twice, for different questions

[hulda]

Hi, everyone,
I was surprised to get the same reading twice but for two different questions. The first one was: What should I do about the strong feelings I have for D?
And the second one was: What direction should I take professionally?
Any guesses as to what this may mean?
Thanks a lot,
Hulda

 

[midaughter]

Hex 51 may be an intervening strong energy that shows a strong influence that is superseding the question. Maybe a surprise party is in store.

 

[hulda]

Hi Midaughter,
thanks for your comment. Really, what do you think 51 is all about? Something that's going to happen, or an advice? Align yourself, or something to that effect? Could you give me some more insight? Thanks. Hulda

 

[willowfox]

The first one was: What should I do about the strong feelings I have for D?
And the second one was: What direction should I take professionally?

The first answer suggests that you were quite surprised by your strong feelings for D but now it suggests that you follow up on those feelings.


The second answer suggests that you have been feeling apprehensive about your future but don't worry, seek help from others as to what to do but hex 16 leans heavily toward a career connected with music.

 

[midaughter]

Well....

You always to write your readings with the applicable changing line in this way: 51:1 - 16

Second, the first line speaks of a bit of apprehension on your part, you will change this into positive energy. 51 usually deals with something unexpected, a nice surprise in this instance. Good time for growth and achievement. Liveliness and prosperity await.

The hexagram may relate to either situation, neither of them, or something else. Ask about each one again. Since it all appears quite nice for you and 16 does represent a party, my reading may just be right.

Since all is well, I didn't belabor the reading but gave you my impression, especially since you received the hexagram and lines twice-that tends to give it away-a nice surprise awaits. If you throw again on this and receive 19, its just around the corner.

 

[lightofreason]

Hi, everyone,
I was surprised to get the same reading twice but for two different questions. The first one was: What should I do about the strong feelings I have for D?
And the second one was: What direction should I take professionally?
Any guesses as to what this may mean?
Thanks a lot,
Hulda

It means nothing - probability alone allows for such when using magical/random methods. IF using questions then it identifies a common structure of the seemingly different contexts.

The hexagrams form a language and their finite number means they are general where local context then fills in the differences. I can get hexagram 02 where it can represent devotion to another/others as it can absolute total darkness and fear. The differences are inherant to the two forms of interpretation - one archetypal covering light/dark the other typal covering the female of male/female (darkness is not longer opposing light, it comes around and shares space being a source of protection and nurturing - like a womb. Thus the pair of male/female (heaven/earth) now have thunder and wind as their 'opposites')

Magical/random methods are not consistant in giving the 'best fit' to a situation so questions can aid in being more precise. E,g, see

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/icplusEProact.html

Chris.

 

[midaughter]

Hulda: do follow up and let us know what happened. The Universe is responding to your energies. The idea that the answers given by the Yi relate to Western probability theory is totally unproven and unknown in traditional I Ching practice. We are working with qi, you energies, the field around you. When you ask a question via the Yi, the universe will answer. But if a strong influence surrounds you that is stronger than the question you ask, then the Yi will respond in that way. Usually when you get the same answer and line statement in two divinations, this is what is going on.

 

[lightofreason]

Midaughter is, as always, living in the 10th century BC and so totally out of touch with the full spectrum I Ching. The perpetuation of that 10th century BC mindset is doing damage to those who could benefit from a 21st century AD perspective that covers what is behind the METAPHOR that is the I Ching and how we can get the I Ching to work with solid scientific foundations regarding how our brains work in interpreting reality - something the 10th century BC mindset knows nothing about and so cannot comment on such.

The Emotional I Ching (EIC) approach is well founded on the ability for the unconscious to assess a situation and have that assessment accepted or suppressed by consciousness and all done without magical/random methods and so being more consistant with assessments. The FACT that the EIC is more consistant shows the magical/random method to be POOR in assessing a situation - it is like trying to predict snow in the sahara at every moment!

If you understand (as midaugher cannot or more so refuses to do so since she is in fear of having to change a lifetime of belief when in fact understanding can refine her beliefs) the dynamics of the unconscious and so the whole we deal with unconsciously (as covered in http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/wavedicho.html ) then you can appreciate how the WHOLE of the I Ching applied to each moment and as such LOCAL context will then sort this into best-fit/worst-fit order and so a sequence of 64 hexagrams. This seaquence means we can derive meaning for any moment in ANY hexagram where consciousness will force an interpretation of as hexagram as if the 'best fit' when it could be the 3rd best or the 63rd best!

The Emotional IC material, even if still in development, is the best thing to happen to the IC and to understanding the dynamics of consciousness/unconsciousness since the original work since it grounds the IC in us, and so there is no need for consideration of any 'magical' elements.

The link I supplied was for the program. Here is the link to the preamble:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/EmotionalIC.html

The 10th century BC approach is EXTREMELY limiting and requires learning that is in fact NOT neccessary in understanding what is going on - the traditional I Ching is put a PART of the universal I Ching that is a metaphor for classifications of feelings/situations and how to (a) go with the flow, or (b) fight it or (c) move on. There is proactivity here as well as reactivity.

To cover more text on emotions and the IC also see the articles that are included in this thread:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3404

Any pleading of ignorance etc or refusing to read because it is 'Western'' etc is not acceptable when we are considering the development of consciousness and our species as a whole, not 'East' vs 'West' but both at the same time - you need to understand the science of one's art as we do the art of one's science. Midaughter refuses to do so and yet feels she can present the comments she has made in her post! LOL!

The Emotional I Ching CLEARLY shows how consciousness and the unconscious work in their cooperation and well as their competition and so the benefits contributed by Western science perspectives in moving the IC into the 21st century AD and so lifting it above the common Western perspective of 'some chinese divination system'. Magical/random methods will NOT give you consistant results. What WILL happen is your consciousness will derive meaning from ANY hexagram regardless of its 'best fit' to a situation. Midaughter's rants on the universe etc directing you (and all of the other X billion people in parallel) is a mindset out of touch with with the 3000+ years of psychology, neuroscience, psychiatry, medicine, anthropology, sociology research.

If people want to live a lie they can do so LOCALLY - they create a 'small world network' as midaughter has done. BUT to understand what is going on GLOBALLY one needs to understand the HOW of the I Ching and only in recent times has that become possible through neuroscience research etc. To then REFUSE to consider that work is the height of arrogance and self-deception. To then PROMOTE that arrogance and self-deception makes it all even worse and reflects a very destructive mindset focused in infecting others with unproven material as one struggles to maintain identity in a changing world. The irony is that we CAN support the I Ching from a scientific perspective and it is really sad to see these 10th century BC mindsets refusing to accept such evidence.

Chris.

 

[lightofreason]

One of the subjects covered in hex 26 is about NOT letting the past rule the present - you can USE the past as a setting of foundations/traditions etc but the present/future MUST be properties of the current situation and so open to decisions etc based on immediate decisions FREE of consideration of history. Refusing to practice 'freedom' means being ruled by history and that means difficulties in dealing with LOCAL change.

Hex 26 pairs with hex 11 to form coverage of issues of mediating, balancing, harmonising but note the "ING" - the mediation means perpetual dynamics as we engage/re-engage the context and so bring to light new findings that refine the old (or even negate it as examples of anthropomorphisms)

Any 'fixed' aspects of the IC will be in VAGUE, GENERAL, structures, but LOCAL context will customise such. Living in the past tries to impose past perspectives on current events and so can be 'out of touch' with current research. Not good.

Chris.

 

[midaughter]

chi is not magic it is the basic energy that forms all things, it has intelligence of a subjective sort in that it answers automatically, indeed it cannot help but do so. Chi or qi is the same energy that works through acupuncture. In the case of the Yi, this energy responds to our thoughts. This is the idea upon which divination is founded although many think and still do that one's spiritual guides are helping frame the answer or one's ancestors. This has sustained the Yi for its entire existence which may be even more than its written history. The Yi may go back in oral tradition 6,000 years. To master the Yi you must learn the basics first. then go own to the other theories and methods if it is your destiny. And BTW in doing you might mature, develop a sense of awe of gratitude, even become an adept and meet meet the immortals who still guide the Yi in this world. The deeper layers of meaning in the Yi have to do with immortality through the practice of internal alchemy. All I say is, "dear sir, you make me laugh.

 

[lightofreason]

East & West

From "Language of the Vague" covering East vs West thinking styles:

In the context of the Darwinian/Lamarckian models of evolution, the continued presence of this dichotomy reflects the overall nature, the universality, of the qualities of competitive (Darwin) / cooperative (Lamarck)

Lamarck's casual focus was more on relationships BETWEEN species, be they of mammals or trees, and so overall integration. Darwin's focus was a touch more precise, focusing on the dynamics of a particular species (e.g. finches) and so a more 'aristocratic' perspective; more differentiating, more competitive, and so more 'precise' - the replacement factor dominates and so even cooperation as in reproduction is for long term competition, for eradication of others through diluting their presence and so their chances of reproduction.

Thus the aristocratic focus is on replacement, on being 'better', whereas the egalitarian is on coexistence, talent is for a particular context (context sensitive), not all contexts (context universal). We see this difference in some WEST/EAST education issues (Note I am being REALLY general here in making this point!...) where, for example, a group given an essay do to in the WEST will produce essays from each member being all their own work; in the EAST there is more a focus on distribution of labour, the BEST person for a particular part writes that part such that all essays reflect the ONE essay that is a group effort and is, as a whole, 'perfect'.

Thus the WEST can come across as more competitive, EAST more cooperative. The WEST favours precision in the INDIVIDUAL and so 'perfection' is focused on the ONE, the 'top' individual who can do it all and damn the rest! The EAST favours precision summed across all members of the group but due to the differences in style of each person so the whole essay may not have the sense of 'continuity' that comes from one person writing the essay; in other words the EAST essay may be 'correct' but not considered 'perfect' in that consistency in style is given as much importance as the facts contained. The PhD may be 100,000 words of 'truth' but if the punctuation is 'sloppy' and the overall format (page structure etc) 'sloppy' then, sorry, no PhD! (….and then there is the issue of a PhD being given to an individual for individual work, not given to a group!)

Therefore, in the WEST there is a degree of being OVER precise in valuing the ONE and so comparisons of WEST/EAST from a WEST perspective is of the EAST lacking in precision, more prone to making 'approximations'. This is changing these days in that EASTERNERS are going to WESTERN universities to learn their precision skills and WESTERNERS are developing interests in EASTERN social and spiritual perspectives.
Interestingly there IS an issue here that is universal, and that is the issues of precision from a differentiating perspective as compared to an integrating perspective. The unit of measure for differentiating is the ONE, for integrating it is no less than a PAIR SUCH THAT comparing collectives who reflect these differences WILL show issues of precision! BUT the realm of the integrating can be more 'qualitative' in form, showing better talent in being discerning, more socially apt, and more intuitive etc. and so reflecting more ‘emotional intelligence’.

Getting back to Darwin, Darwin's work *really* 'stuck out' and only in recent times has there been questions raised that, from a scientific perspective, introduce different perspectives, different models, and so distribute the energy of Darwinism.
We are not interested in the 'truth' here, that comes out in comparing models with empirical studies, we are interested in the 'natural' emergence of dichotomies in our reflections upon the universe and our selves where that natural emergence says something about us, our style of thinking appears to be rooted in recursion of dichotomies but not of the 'hard core' Aristotle type of 50/50 split, more the focus on bifurcations, the branch from the trunk, the charismatic part, the flower, from the whole, balanced, bush – we see here the differences of Gaussian vs. power-law dichotomies.

Even though there appears to be a dimension of possible expressions, our attention is always drawn to the poles that we then 'exaggerate' but in doing so can blind ourselves and so miss what is behind all of that 'light'. In other words, 'full spectrum thinking' reflects the differentiation and then integration of WEST and EAST, of differentiating and integrating and that is possible by understanding the common element, our species nature and how IT processes information - IOW EAST and WEST reflect SPECIALISATIONS of the species over all where local context biased the use of the set of general qualities used in deriving meaning - the patterns of which are covered in the IDM material.

 

[lightofreason]

chi is not magic it is the basic energy that forms all things, it has intelligence of a subjective sort in that it answers automatically, indeed it cannot help but do so. Chi or qi is the same energy that works through acupuncture.

you obviously dont read the IDM/IC+ material.

The self-referencing of ANYTHING will give you TWO sets of classifiers, one set is object oriented, the other relationships oriented. The latter covers the sense of FLOW and is expressed in all dynamics of self-referencing, there is NOTHING 'chinese' about it. In the West the flow is expressed in the labels covering the flow of capital. The 'needle' we use in that flow is in the form of interest rate control.

See my Five-Phase I Ching material:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/icfive0.html

You are SO riddled in 10th century BC thinking that you are incable of seeing the forest for the trees - too focused on local, out of date, perspectives and so LIMITING yourself in explanations of reality. I can describe flow in ANY language since it is a property of the methodology of creating language - you are obviously naive of this and so think it is all 'chinese' - it isnt. Read some science dudette - move into the 21st century AD.

With that movement we can identify solutions to problems through imposition of hexagrams as context etc etc etc.

Chris.

 

[lightofreason]

... The Yi may go back in oral tradition 6,000 years. To master the Yi you must learn the basics first.

Here is your problem, your extreme limitation. IDM looks behind the IC and goes back MILLIONS of years in coverage of the roots of meaning in the neurology. no brain, no meaning. The basic of the I Ching are in the properties and methods of metaphor creation and its roots in self-referencing of ANY dichotomy. THEN comes local context dynamics that elicit differences, uniquenesses in the sameness.

ANY 'oral' tradition comes out of our brains and are WORDS that represent FEELINGS that are invarient across the species. The oral traditions were based on local AD HOC methods/associations and so LACK precision. Through the last 3000 years we have become more precise and can deal with any 'oral' tradition by being more precise in expressing what that 'oral tradition' was TRYING to cover.

Your naive perspective is severely limiting you and making you come across as out of date, past your best-before/use-by date. Your lack of understanding what is behind the IC and belief systems etc brings out your flim-flam nature, a con artist/show-biz approach that can make you a living by suckering the gullable.

Nasty.

Chris.

 

[heylise]

Hulda,

It might be that your life is overall in a 16-situation. Either regarding outer facts or inner focus, probably both. Enthusiasm, motivation, lots of potential for giving it drive and color. Or it might be over-enthusiasm, going over the top in these things. I think if you search your heart, you will know which one applies.

You are like that in everything you do, relation, job. That explains the similar reading.

51.1 tells you that not everything is what it seems at first sight, or that it can turn into something you would not have expected. It is a good way to deal with times which are too much 16: don't judge things too fast, take another look, wait a little so they reveal what they really are about. 16 can make you quite blind, 51 shocks you awake to reality again.

LiSe

 

[midaughter]

The Great Pumpkin has spoken!

 

[hulda]

Hi midaughter, lightofreason, willowfox and heylise,
Thanks a lot for your comments. Lightofreason, I find it very hard to believe that it is a random situation. The same hexagram for different questions situation has happened to me once in a while, and I'm quite sure it is not a random thing, as it fits in w. the context. I tried understanding the emotional i-ching, but didn't get very far. Perhaps some watering down for the masses might be necessary? Your ideas, as I understand them seem convincing, but I can't seem to apply them to my needs right now.
I agree w. will., mid. and hey. that I am very enthusiastic in general. I hadn't thought of it that way and your insights have helped me. I am, however, always feeling that I can't seem to get what I want, and that different factors hinder me from that. I am not sure how to act, how to go about getting out of "the rut" I feel I'm in.
I guess 51 points to that.
Since I wrote this post, I had a very frustrating experience in relation to my job. My boss and I were in a constant conflict while we were conducting a workshop. It was clear to me that the people we were working with felt very disconcerted about it, and it made me feel very bad. I'm not sure how that would fit in w. 51 if at all.
As for my feelings for the person I mentioned, it's kind of an impossible situation, and it doesn't seem to go anywhere. So I don't know where 51 comes in there either.

I do agree with the three of you that the same hexagram is really talking about a more general situation, and I wish I could understand it better. I think, as I mentioned, that it alludes to this general feeling that even though there are a lot of good things going for me, and that I am generally enthusiastic, I don't seem to reach the kind of happiness and wellbeing that I feel I am capable of having.
Any advice on what to do about that? Cast another hexagram? With what question?