Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
martin said:'Archetypes, so far as we can observe and explain them at all, manifest themselves only through their ability to organize images and ideas, and this is always an unconscious process which cannot be detected until afterwards.'
martin said:Well, I didn't define these terms. But when I say that archetypes and symbols are different I use the word 'symbol' in the sense of a concrete image. An archetype is different, more abstract and not or less conscious. Jung in 'Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious':
'Archetypes, so far as we can observe and explain them at all, manifest themselves only through their ability to organize images and ideas, and this is always an unconscious process which cannot be detected until afterwards.'
bruce_g said:I've read different definitions for the word "archetypes"
So I guess you mean archetypal images and ideas?bruce_g said:Do you think a modern oracle can function without the use of these archetypes?
martin said:but perhaps Chris' IC+ indeed rarely gives a best fit when consulted with random methods.
Because he has removed too much archetypal imagery ..
lightofreason said:The main emphasis of belief is to not ask questions - not seek what is 'behind' things - to keep a chid mind, absolute, immediate, andso be open to the 'magical' - used car salespersons and charasmatics types LOVE this! - very profitable! (look at the assets of the formal churches etc)
Time to grow up I think ;-)
martin said:So you are not a child but you are also not a grownup. What are you then, a 650 years old grumpy alien?
ewald said:Oh yes, I've seen all episodes.
And he sure behaves like a missionary, just like the Priors of the Ori.
trojan said:I think one of these days Chris is going to have the mother of all conversion experiences. An angel will visit him and Chris will point out this isn't possible there are no such things, but the angel won't go away and in the morning - behold its a Chris we've never known the like of before, we might miss the old one though ?
lightofreason said:BTW - A Vulcan 'mind meld' is possible in principle given the data on emotions, projection, and transference - but it would require the eyes to be open since they are a major source of transference.
Do you mean Vala (Claudia Black)?bradford said:That was seriously compromised though when Firefly's Inara joined the cast.
ewald said:Do you mean Vala? I love that character, but she doesn't quite seem to fit as a SG1 member, in season 10. I thought she was magnificent while she was just a guest star earlier, with all this rebelliousness and flirting.
brad said:"I guess we're still on the subject of dissipation?"
So at red alert, head to the bridge? (Die-hard trekkie here, sorry.)denis said:"...rushing toward the ji1 in dispersion means we run into the thick of an unravelling situation, where we will be part of creating the outcome."
hilary said:
I understand what a sojourner is, I could make a guess at the nature of a brightness-injured person, but what's a 'Dispersed One'?
hilary said:That quote from Xi Kang is very interesting. I've noticed 59 used to describe personal relationships affected by alcoholism: the loss of any normal sense of 'personal space' or safe boundaries.
denis_m said:If the word Huan4 is personified in 59.3, then 59.3 could be "the body of the one in dispersion," i.e., the dispersion of self into the body. [what Delmore Schwarz called 'the secret life of belly and bone.']
denis_m said:59.5 has always boggled me. Maybe the first huan4 could be personified, but not the second.
I like personifying Huan in 59.6: the blood going out makes me think of sublimation, and sublimation is something a person achieves. This line makes me think of the lady painter whom Rilke mourns in his "Requiem for a Friend."
lightofreason said:The traditional IC was put together in an ad hoc manner, difference people added bits as time went on, and the bits added were references to local context as sources of analogy/metaphor for what they were feeling, experiencing. IOW lots of labels to try and communicate 'yin/yang-ness' (where yin/yang are labels themselves)
dobro said:Chris
I don't believe that you *know* that the IC was put together in an ad hoc manner; I believe it's your opinion. {/quote]
No. Any archeological/sociological focus on ancient China from 2000BC to 1000AD will show you the ad hoc nature in creation of the formal IC from more 'primitive' perspectives. The Imperial edition of 1700s was an attempt to filter out all of the accmulated ad-hocary over the centuries to give the formal dogma.
This is basic mind dynamics at work where we have the template for meaning and we fill in the dots ;-) In so doing we come across perceptual anomolies and so go through periods of revision etc etc where we update material given new facts.
Now we are in a position to identify the template and associated methodology used for all meaning derivation and so take the traditional IC into the 21st century AD ;-)
dobro said:Also, when you say 'put together in an ad hoc manner; different people added bits as time went on', you make it sound so haphazard and so...such a product of ordinary minds.
That is the simplicity of it - it can suite 'ordinary minds'. ANY mind can derive the meanings of the IC given time and a focus. Every person on this planet could create their own I Ching by self-referencing of yin/yang for symbolisms and derivation of decision strategies where those strategies will elicit emotional content. The LOCAL form of that content will be specialist but BENEATH that will be the template identified by the IDM/IC+ material and so all of the ICs producted will show isomorphism all due to the methodology in production - self-referencing.
dobro said:But you're sidestepping the point I was making, which was that the Yi was produced not by people of ordinary mind, but by people of higher mind.
That is your opinion. My work shows that that is not necessary - and the formal imperial edition reflected attempts by the courts to bring out a 'high minded' format but there is no reason for some local peasant to come up with his/her personal form of IC that would contain the same general qualities as the imperial edition.
dobro said:The fact that the Yi people saw patterns with such clarity and utility says to me that their minds and their being were organized at a higher level of integration, with a greater degree of unity, than the likes of you and me. And anything produced by a higher mind is permeated with that unity to the point of it not being 'local'.
I think you say this because you need this perspective to fit your opinion of your self - you are downplaying your capabilities. Stop it. ;-) Write your own IC based on the Species qualities identified in IDM/IC+ and you will see emerge your personal perspectives mapped to the IC in general due to the underlying sameness in the neurology that determines the method of thinking etc.
Chris.
heylise said:I don't think the Yi was created ad hoc. There has probably been added a lot ad hoc, and that is still happening all the time. I do it, Chris does it, we all do, we all add our own understanding. The imperial edition was, to find a common base back.
LiSe
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).