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59. Huan / Dispersion [Dissolution}

rosada

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59.4 cont.
When we are working at a task that affects the general welfare, we must leave all private friendships out of account. Only by rising above party interests can we achieve something decisive. He who has the courage thus to forego what is near wins what is afar. But in order to comprehend this standpoint, one must have a wide view of the interrelationships of life, such as only unusual men attain.
-Wilhelm
 

rodaki

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WARNING: what follows is not coming from any commentary or deep knowledge of the original Chinese context, and it certainly doesn't encompass the wider meaning of 59.4

. . but if I see this line through my impressionistic glasses, it looks very much like (cough) someone throwing coins:
-Scatter the group
-Take what comes on top
-Not the most common sense way of dealing with conflicting situations, but it seems to work ;)
 

Trojina

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Yes. In my experience here with the kids I was imagining I would sail in and be this Super Grandma and I'm realizing my ideas of how to run a household - lists, schedules, dinner table discussions - just aren't the way it's done here, sigh...

A conversation with the Fan Yaos might go like this:

59.1
I'm here to help!
61.1
Uh, prepare yourself Grandma. the truth is your design of how a house should run isn't the same as ours.

59.2
Oh..well hey, no problem, we don't need to follow my ideas, I'm here to follow your ideas!
20.2
Uh, you still don't understand. You may not see it but our lives don't always include you.

59.3
Oh..well, yes, of course, I don't need to be included all the time...
57.3
All the time, some of the time, whatever .. you just don't seem to get the point.

59.4
Oh I get it alright. I may be the mother but this household already has a wife - and I need to get a life.
6.4
Thanks Mom, glad you understand. We do love you, you know.

Glad this had a happy ending, cos yesterday sounded like some hurt feelings about for you. :)...but emotions are going to run high with a new baby around and everyone having to adjust....does this lead us up to 59.5 ?
 
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my_key

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59.4 - This is how I am going to serve.

There is a real sense of wringing out the old and ringing in the new here in this line.

Mike
 

rosada

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Feeling much better thanks.
I like rodaki was seeing in the idea of 59.4 being about scattering and then just looking to see what comes up easily, gently.
I finally got out of the house and went for a walk and by thus dissolving my attachment to the Grandma persona I discovered there was a world of wider interests out there. Even came across a metaphysical bookstore. I popped in and asked if they'd be interested in having someone give a talk on how to consult the I Ching! They were very receptive although I don't know if I'll ever do it. Seemed like it would be a good manifestation of 59.5 though.
Oh, and then I went into a grocery store and they were giving out free chocolet bars!

Note to self: Never stay home and sulk, there's a world of miracles out there!!
rosada

Song for 59.4
Downtown, by Petula Clark.
 
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rosada

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59.5
0 Nine in the fifth place means:

His loud cries are as dissolving as sweat.
Dissolution! A king abides without blame.

In times of general dispersion and separation, a great idea provides a focal point for the organization of recovery. Just as an illness reaches its crisis in a dissolving sweat, so a great and stimulating idea is a true salvation in times of general deadlock. It gives the people a rallying point - a man in a ruling position who can dispel misunderstandings.
-Wilhelm
 
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my_key

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Serving ?
Serving can mean all sorts of things to all different people.
For me in this context it's something like a dissolution of the ego, that allows aspects of being to come to the for that were not able to be exhibited. Stepping up a level at hex 59 has allowed a "conversion and evaporation" (Frank's words) from what was to what is now. A new beginning of sorts after climbing the path from hex 51 - which for me takes a strong spiritual element at their core.

It's doing things more for the good of others, or perhaps your true inner self, rather than for some grand self promotion or apeasement of the ego. It's seeing the big picture, being able to look at things in circles, waves and sweeping forms rather than in logical linear ways. It's perhaps allowing the wheel to begin another turn, having cleaned the windscreen and seen things in a new light..
Line 4 the first line in the outer world where the inner changes start to manifest through our new choices, so we have to leave behind a whole load of out moded thoughts and actions. Indeed, we may have to go through the mangle to allow the new energy to take it's form in the relationships that we form with all things in our life - our friends family, pets, our cars, what we eat, how we eat, when we eat, how we exercise, our attitudes to work, to play, to leisure, to sex, to envy, to jealousy.............. you name it we have had a relationship with it, and will continue to have a relationship with it.
Hence how you have decided to serve something (to have a relationship with) is a very personal thing. It's important to remember, serving is not about being subservient.

Mike
 
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rodaki

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thank you Rosada :)
funnily enough, I'm going through something similar these past two days, letting go the idea that I'm just in transit in this new place where I am, which held me back from just enjoying it for what it is, and made me instead a rather grumpy passenger that is impatiently waiting to go . .
hope things turn out well with your I Ching lecture!

loved Mike's post . . this one's straight for my archives
 

rosada

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59.5
0 Nine in the fifth place.

a) His loud cries are as dissolving as sweat.
Dissolution! A king abides without blame.

b) "A king abides without blame." He is in his proper place.

Wind meeting water dissolves it as sweat is dissolved. The trigram Sun, wind, which reaches everywhere, signifies loud cries. The king is in his proper place, hence withour blame.
-Wilhelm
 

rosada

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Speaking of serving and Who do we serve?..
Today I have been given a picture of HANUMAN the Hindu God of Loyalty, Devotion and Service. On the back it says,
"Hanuman inspires us to develop strength and purity to become perfect servants to the Divine.
I salute, by bowing down my head, the messenger of Sri Rama, Hanuman, who travels as fast as the mind and the wind, who has won over his sense organs, who is the best among the intelligent, who is the son of the wind god and who is the commander in chief of the army of monkeys."
 

bradford

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59.5
0 Nine in the fifth place.
a) His loud cries are as dissolving as sweat.
Dissolution! A king abides without blame.
-Wilhelm

Refer to earlier comments about changes of state, as liquid to gas.
Sweat is all about evaporation and cooling.
 
M

meng

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59.4 Thinking outside the think tank.

59.5 Crikey, I've got it! Or it's got me! :eek:
 

rosada

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I posted the bit about HAN, the son of the wind god, who travels faster than the mind, cause I liked the idea of wind {gentle kindness?} being able to disperse all the obstacles mind has created.
Says to me that when the false or limiting or no longer relevant ideas have been dispersed then the king, the divine, the idea that should be served, is recognized.

Everyone here at my place is happier - Finally figured out why Jax has been so fussy - I need to put him to bed sooner not later!

59.5,
His loud cries mean he's worn himself out working up a sweat.
Eureka! Now it's time to put the king in his cradle.

Fan Yao:
4.5 Babies look so innocent when they're asleep. ;)

r.

p.s. It occurs to me this hexagram could be all about Let go and Let God.
 
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frank_r

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The 5th line, the central line of wind is changing into mountain. the nucleur trigram mountain changes into earth. So everything is changing into the element of earth(mountain and earth are both element earth). And because element earth is the final expression of the first 4 elements(Fire, Wood, metal and water).

Knowing this I would say that the way things look on a personal level only can change if we see that there is also a change in the situation around us. This way we are connected in trust but we also see what the effect of impatience and ambition is because we are getting everything back through resonation.
 
M

maremaria

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p.s. It occurs to me this hexagram could be all about Let go and Let God.

That is my impression too, based on some experiences I had lately.
And I had to chuckled reading Meng’s

59.5 Crikey, I've got it! Or it's got me! :eek:

the "Or it's got me! :eek: " its very accurate, imo

The solid ice is strong but when you let it melt and new world appears. Its scary but it can be beautiful too.

Maria
 

rosada

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"It's not as though we're always given a choice." -meng.

Right. In fact, does it seem to anyone else that this hexagram is about coming to terms with one's own death?
I look at 58.6 "Seductive joyousness" and Wilhelm's comment, "He has given up direction of his own life." That sounds like the game is over.
Then 59.1 "He brings help with the strength of a horse. Good fortune." That sounds like the man can't do anything for himself - cause he's dead - and a guardian angel comes to assist the soul in crossing over.
59.2 "At the dissolution he hurries to that which supports him. Remorse disappears." At death the soul drops the body, hurries to the angel, the Light, whatever, no remorse, just get me out of here!
59.3 "He dissolves himself. No remorse." Now this is an interesting line if this hexagram is indeed referring to the death experience. Could this be The Life Review? Or some other step where consciousness consciously surrenders the former life?
59.4 "He dissolves his bond with his group. Supreme good fortune. Dispersion leads in turn to accumulation.This is something ordinary men do not think of." Is this soul consciously giving up even deeper attachments, not only accepting that his own life is over, but now recognizing he ought not haunt his former friends but must look to creating a new life? Reincarnating? This is something mortals - men still in bodies do not think about.
59.5 "His loud cries are as dissolving as sweat. Dissolution! A king abides without blame." Is this the soul taking up residence in a new reality? Can't blame him.
--

Maria, I like your comment about the frozen ice evaporating and a new world appearing. Perhaps this earthly life time has been one frozen moment since hex.2.1 and now here at 59 the story has been fully acted out and it's time to let it go and create something new.
Not sure that made sense. I'm thinking that hexagram 1 could describe Creating and then after the creation phase is complete comes the entering and living in the world the mind has created. When the creation no longer holds us enthralled, our attachment melts away like ice melting in a warm wind.
rosada
 
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M

meng

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Sure, all kinds of deaths too.

A French term for orgasm is la petite mort, or "little death".
 

rosada

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59.6
Nine at the top means:
He dissolves his blood.
Departing, keeping at a distance, going out,
Is without blame.

The idea of the dissolving of a man's blood means the dispersion of that which might lead to bloodshed and wounds, i.e., avoidance of danger. But here the thought is not that a man avoids difficulties for himself alone, but rather that he rescues his kin - helps them to get away before danger comes, or to keep at a distance from an existing danger, or to find a way out of a danger that is already upon them. In this way he does what is right.
-Wilhelm
 

rosada

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Any ideas? This seems like a really really scary line to me, like suicide.
rosada
 

bradford

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Emotional detachment, distancing, objectivity.
One is shedding the violent emotions, not indulging in them.
 

charly

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Any ideas? This seems like a really really scary line to me, like suicide.
rosada
Hi Rosada:

Don't be scared by the blood image.

Maybe it's not, or not only, about bleeding, but about BLOOD RELATIONS, family, clans, even dynastic succession.

Maybe in SCATTERING YOUR BLOOD (your seed, your linneage) TO GO FAR for SPROUTING is NO WRONG.

Thinking in your grandson, YOUNGS NEED SOMETIMES TO GO FAR, THEY NEED TO BE WIVES / HUSBANDS IN THE OWN HOME.

Yours,

Charly
 

rosada

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Whew! Now there's an example where knowing what the ancient's had to say vs. one's own opinion would make an important difference!
r.
 

charly

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59.6
Nine at the top means:
He dissolves his blood.
Departing, keeping at a distance, going out,
Is without blame.

The idea of the dissolving of a man's blood means the dispersion of that which might lead to bloodshed and wounds, i.e., avoidance of danger. But here the thought is not that a man avoids difficulties for himself alone, but rather that he rescues his kin - helps them to get away before danger comes, or to keep at a distance from an existing danger, or to find a way out of a danger that is already upon them. In this way he does what is right.
-Wilhelm

Chinese characters, pinyin, usual meanings, WILHELM / BAYNES:

huan4: scatter / disperse expansive of river / [HE] DISSOLVES
qi2: his / her / its / theirs / that / such / it / HIS
xue4: blood / BLOOD

qu4: to go / to leave / DEPARTING
ti4: far / [KEEPING AT A] DISTANCE
chu1: to go out / to rise / to put forth / to issue / GOING OUT

wu2: without / not / no / avoid / [IS] WITHOUT
jiu4: blame / to blame / mistake / BLAME​


Temporary rendition:

SCATTERING ONE'S BLOOD
scattering one's seed
extending one's family or clan


GOING FAR TO SPROUT
going far from home in order to grow
even marrying with strangers for having heirs


NO WRONG
no blame, no mistake




Of course, if somebody arrives spilling blood, if he is too strong, maybe the best is to take distance, better to be a renegade than a dead.

Ancient chinese did know little physiology: they believed than in making a CHILD, the MAN brought the SEED and the WOMAN the BLOOD.

In traditional marriage the wife went out of the house and family of her parents for getting in the family of his husband.

But sometimes the man went far from home, by political persecution, seeking opportunities, wandering as a merchant, a soldier or even a forced laborer and looked for some foreigner blood in orden to share his seed.


yours,

Charly

huanxiong1_003.jpg

http://www.iecool.com/pic/show/439/71965.htm
 
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bradford

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If you look at the other places that blood (xue) appears (02.6, 03.6, 05.4, 09.4 and 54.6), all but 54.6 depict intense emotional conflict or anxiety. 54.6 is a special case, the bloodless (i.e. lifeless) sacrifice.
 

rosada

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59.6
Nine at the top:

a) He dissolves his blood.
Departing, keeping at a distance, going out,
Is without blame.

b) "He dissolves his blood." Thus he keeps at a distance from injury.

K'an is blood. Wind dissolves. Thus occasion for bloodshed is removed. Not only does the line itself surmount the peril, but also helps the six in the third place, to which it is related.
-Wilhelm
 

frank_r

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In Traditional Chinese Medicine the role of blood is different than in western physiology.
Different Energies are responsible for the making of blood.

After eating our food the spleen is responsible for the the nutricius(feeding) part of our food. This energy is going to our Lungs and the Lung Energy sends it to our Heart. Here it is transformed in real blood. Blood is given the colour red through the heart energy. This cycle we are calling the postnatal cycle of making blood. This cycle is connected with the King wen cycle.
Also the kidneys can make blood through our bonemarrow.Here the ancient Chinese knew the bloodmaking function of our bonemarrow, the same as in Western physiology, long before the introduction of the Western Medicine in China. This is through the prenatal cycle, the Fu Shi cycle.

Looking to the different energies we can say that the spleen is also responsible for our rational thinking. The lung is responsible for our individuality. And our Heart is our Spirit, our connection with the Tao.
The kidneys are our history.
This everything together is making our blood. So blood is not only the red liqued in our veins it's a lot more than that.

The Chinese also say that our qi(yang) is the one that moves our blood, and blood(yin) is the mother of qi. So there is a very strong connection between those two. The can't live without each other.

Frank
 
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rosada

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Looking at Charley's post and the bit about scattering seed and thinking how at the end of it's life the flower scatter's it's seed. So is there some reference here to 59.6 as being at the very end of the life cycle and at that point man's duty is to scatter his seed? That is, before dying a man wants to beget children? Could 59.5 be ejaculation and then, 59.6, though the male dies, his seed is scattered?

Frank, thank you for the insights on how the ancient Chinese would have viewed blood. Do you have any thoughts on how that would color the interpretation of this line?
r.
 

Trojina

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Looking at Charley's post and the bit about scattering seed and thinking how at the end of it's life the flower scatter's it's seed. So is there some reference here to 59.6 as being at the very end of the life cycle and at that point man's duty is to scatter his seed? That is, before dying a man wants to beget children? Could 59.5 be ejaculation and then, 59.6, though the male dies, his seed is scattered?


r.

I think and have also found 59.6 to be about seperating oneself from the cause of ones distress/anxiety/pain...all the things that blood symbolises. keeping distance from injury as Wilhelm put it. I don't see it as a scary line, its about getting away from what you're scared of. I wasn't going to put this but didn't want you to miss the most obvious meaning...

er one thought.. if a man is at the very end of his life do you think he'd really be in the mood for 'scattering his seed' ? ....no need to answer that lol.

I'd say the idea of leaving some part of yourself behind, was much more 53.6 than 59.6.

Although FWIW I note 59.6 comes up in my own and others readings to do with distancing from ones family..getting away from family when they are the source of blood like emotions...making a new family might be part of getting away from the old one i suppose but i think the getting away is paramount.
 
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