...life can be translucent

Menu

61. Chung Fu / Inner Truth

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
61. Chung Fu / Inner Truth

_____
_____ above SUN THE GENTLE, WIND
__ __
__ __
_____ below TUI THE JOYOUS, LAKE
_____

The wind blows over the lake and stirs the surface of the water. Thus visible effects of the invisible manifest themselves, The hexagram consists of firm lines above and below, while it is open in the center.

This indicates a heart free of prejudices and therefore open to truth.

On the other hand, each of the two trigrams has a firm line in the middle; this indicates the force of inner truth in the influences they represent.

The attributes of the two trigrams are: above, gentleness, forbearance toward inferiors; below, joyousness in obeying superiors. Such conditions create the basis of a mutual confidence that makes achievements possible.
The character fu ("truth") is actually the picture of a bird's foot over a fledgling. It suggests the idea of brooding. An egg is hollow. The light giving power must work to quicken it from outside, but there must be a germ of life within, if life is to be awakened. far-reaching speculations can be linked with these ideas.
-Wilhelm
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,109
Reaction score
72
yicard61.jpg
 
M

meng

Guest
Luis, interesting image. I interpret the interpretation :D as the cooperation and mobilization of wind in sails and wood on water, and of merchant and seaman, as well as the cargo contained and carried in wooden chests. All cooperative elements achieving a balance for common purpose.
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
Also a good image for the faith and trust between the merchant and the sailers.
 

my_key

visitor
Joined
Mar 22, 1971
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
552
Luis
Is the guy whose pointing asking " What have you locked away in your boxes?"

.................. or perhaps the saucier version " What have you got hidden in your trunks?":mischief:

Mike
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
22,605
Reaction score
1,951
:rofl: you've been watching too many "Carry On " films Mykey
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
The center of this hexagram is empty; this is its determining feature.

Therefore the six in the third place and the six in the fourth place are the constituting rulers of the hexagram. However, truth depends in another aspect on the fact that the center has substance; therefore the nine in the second place and the nine in the fifth place are the governing rulers. Since, furthermore, the basic idea is that a whole realm is transformed by the strength of inner truth, the place of honor is necessary for this undertaking. Hence the actual ruler of the hexagram is the nine in the fifth place.

THE SEQUENCE

Through being limited, things are made dependable, Hence there follows the hexagram of INNER TRUTH.

MISCELLANEOUS NOTES

INNER TRUTH means dependability.

This hexagram, like the two that precede it, has a closed-off inner structure; it differs from them in the fact that its two outermost lines are strong. The eldest and the youngest daughter are together here in their appropriate positions, hence mutual trust is not disturbed. The attributes of the joyousness below, and the nuclear trigrams are rest and movement. Moreover, the entire structure of the hexagram is very harmonious and symmetrical: the yielding lines are within and the firm without. These are all highly favorable circumstances; therefore a highly favorable judgement goes with the hexagram.
-Wilhelm
 
Last edited:

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,109
Reaction score
72
Also a good image for the faith and trust between the merchant and the sailers.

Yes, that's what I see in the picture: valuables given in custody to the master to be carried to a distant place. The relation between shipper and carriers is an archetype for trust and safe-keeping and delivery. Also, in case of accidents and mishaps, all parties are to blame (Admiralty Law - I earn my beans in the ocean shipping biz... :D). In practice, that means that nobody is ultimately liable for loss, unless there's willful wrongdoing by any of the parties, and why we have outfits like Lloyd's of London insuring cargo and vessels.

IMHO, regarding 61, the shipping metaphor is quite apt: Do your honestly best to reach a goal and be true to your place in the path to reach it.
 
M

meng

Guest
Yes, that's what I see in the picture: valuables given in custody to the master to be carried to a distant place. The relation between shipper and carriers is an archetype for trust and safe-keeping and delivery. Also, in case of accidents and mishaps, all parties are to blame (Admiralty Law - I earn my beans in the ocean shipping biz... :D). In practice, that means that nobody is ultimately liable for loss, unless there's willful wrongdoing by any of the parties, and why we have outfits like Lloyd's of London insuring cargo and vessels.

IMHO, regarding 61, the shipping metaphor is quite apt: Do your honestly best to reach a goal and be true to your place in the path to reach it.

Fair interpretation, but too limited to humans to satisfy me. (edit) Where's da pigs and da fishes which are influenced through the powers that be?
 
Last edited:

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,109
Reaction score
72
Fair interpretation, but too limited to humans to satisfy me.

Oh, you mean because is missing the trigram's imagery? I'd never finish the post... :D Sorry, I didn't have the time to address your comment above. I believe your inclusion of those attributes in the interpretation is very appropriate and accurate. Rosada's take on the picture was much faster to address in human terms.:)
 
M

meng

Guest
Oh! the humanity!

heh

Quantum entanglement, also called the quantum non-local connection, is a property of a quantum mechanical state of a system of two or more objects in which the quantum states of the constituting objects are linked together so that one object can no longer be adequately described without full mention of its counterpart—even if the individual objects are spatially separated in a spacelike manner.
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
I think of Inner Truth as recognizing that what is happening in the outer world is indeed a reflection of one's inner intention. Usually this comes to mind when there is a situation where a person could justify being upset - "I was unfairly terminated!" - but the truth is things actually worked out for the best - he hated the job. So Inner Truth is a call to acknowledge the inner intention - delay the execution and discuss the case. Perhaps what happened was not so inappropriate after all.

On the positive side I see it when I'm real clear about my intentions for the day - like if I make a list before going to the grocery store - somehow the pigs, the fish and even the parking places all show up just as I need them.

rosada
 
Last edited:

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
Fair interpretation, but too limited to humans to satisfy me. (edit) Where's da pigs and da fishes which are influenced through the powers that be?
Bruce:

First, there are no tall pigs but little PIGLETS, maybe meaning the need for maternal care, thus compliant with the image of the character fu2, a hand taking care of child, meaning to inspire confidence → confidence / trust → sincerity. See one seal character from Sears' Chineseetymology:


L03588.gif

FISHES had also to do with CHILDREN for they symbolize FECONDITY. Of course the fishes are in the water. The piglets, maybe, confined in the cabin.

Somebody that delivers goods by ship have some CONFIDENCE in the SAILOR , but are we obligued to have conficence in these guys? I believe NOT.

All the SCENE is highly suspicious, the boat is maybe a SAMPAN that have some disreputable associations. I believe that they are transporting ILLEGAL CARGO, too much secrecy. Maybe not silk or gold, probably OPIUM or HUMAN BEINGS.

No piglets in the shelter (1) but KIDNAPED BOYS (2) or even WOMEN!

I believe that the connection is good because adding a component to the character fu2 we have another character that means A SORT OF SAMPAN!

Something in the shape of reminds me of SWEE'PEA, and of course POPEYE the SAILOR.

SweePea.jpg



Yours,

Charly

__________________________
(1) some authors think that the character piglets + fish make a word that denotes a sort of FISH (Denis Mair) or a RIVER DOLPHIN (Blofeld), thus no pigs at all in H.61.

(2) too much Stevenson?
 
Last edited:
M

meng

Guest
Charly, interesting how we see different things in that picture and interpret them differently.

I see pigs and fish as extensions or continuations of ourselves. It is where our instincts are rooted, where you know and trust something not by your thoughts but by your instincts, as though it is more within your bones than your brain.
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
THE JUDGEMENT

INNER TRUTH. Pigs and fishes.
Good fortune.
It furthers one to cross the great water.
Perseverance furthers.

Pigs and fishes are the least intelligent of all animals ane therefore the most difficult to influence. The force of inner truth must grow great indeed before its influence an extend to such creatures. In dealing with persons as intractable and as difficult to influence as a pig or a fish, the whole secret of success depends on finding the right way of approach. One must first rid oneself of all prejudice and, so to speak, let the psyche of the other person act on one without restraint. Then one will establish contact with him, understand and gain power over him. When a door has thus been opened, the force of one's personality will influence him. If in this way one finds no obstacles insurmountable, one can undertake even the most dangerous things, such as crossing the great water, and succeed.

But it is important to understand upon what the force of inner truth depends. This force is not identical with simple intimacy or a secret bond. Close ties may exist also among thieves; it is true that such a bond acts as a force but, since it is not invincible, it does not bring good fortune. All association on the basis of common interests holds only up to a certain point. Where the community of interest ceases, the holding together ceases also, and the closest friendship often changes into hate. Only when the bond is based on what is right, on steadfastness, will it remain so firm that it triumphs over everything.
-Wilhelm
 

rodaki

visitor
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
2,176
Reaction score
26
But it is important to understand upon what the force of inner truth depends. This force is not identical with simple intimacy or a secret bond. Close ties may exist also among thieves; it is true that such a bond acts as a force but, since it is not invincible, it does not bring good fortune. All association on the basis of common interests holds only up to a certain point. Where the community of interest ceases, the holding together ceases also, and the closest friendship often changes into hate. Only when the bond is based on what is right, on steadfastness, will it remain so firm that it triumphs over everything.
-Wilhelm

. . my experiences with 61 have so far pointed towards a bond that shows itself in unintentional ways. The most obvious of these was the first time I listened live to traditional greek wind instruments. I never had felt, up to then, any special affinity for traditional music, but when the musicians started playing, something stirred and resonated in that inner gene pool, a sense of belonging that hadn't revealed itself before (I'm thinking probably some ancestors lived in the balkan mountain ranges, tending sheep or sth . .)

Anyway, I think that with 61 there's always a sense of both knowing and not knowing at the same time . . maybe this is the pigs and fish part . .
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
Charly, interesting how we see different things in that picture and interpret them differently.

I see pigs and fish as extensions or continuations of ourselves. It is where our instincts are rooted, where you know and trust something not by your thoughts but by your instincts, as though it is more within your bones than your brain.
Bruce:

Quite true!

Pictures are like projective test or even like mirrors. If the test or the mirror can reveal the truth, when somebody looks a picture is always possible for him to see a PIG or a FISH.

Maybe not a fine portrait but always is good to have contact with our true selves.


zhong1: middle / center /
fu2: to inspire confidence / trust / sincerity // to capture / to catch / captive /
tun2: suckling pig / piglet /
yu2: fish /
ji2: lucky /


中孚
CENTRAL CAPTURE
Central aprehension
Aprehension of the Centre
If we look at our own centre, at our own true self...


豚魚
PIGLETS & FISHES !
DOLPHINS ! (1)
GLOBEFISHES !
Animals & Animals
Animals
More Animals
... we always will see not one but at least two, or even more, ANIMALS.



LUCKY
Fortunate
If we can accept it we shall be lucky.


Moral:

Catch the Centre, get the Main.​

I agree with you. Maybe H.61 is a Journey to the Centre. Or the Center, if you prefer so.

Yours,

Charly

______________________________
(1) Chinese river dolphin, the BAI JI TUN [white-finned pig]

Baiji-StLea_BOF_Steven_Leatherwood-thumb.jpg
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
. . when the musicians started playing, something stirred and resonated in that inner gene pool, a sense of belonging that hadn't revealed itself before... with 61 there's always a sense of both knowing and not knowing at the same time . . maybe this is the pigs and fish part . .
Hi, Dora:

I see that you also like pigs an fishes.

Some things touch us in the middle of our own heart, sometimes unexpectedly.
If we should catch the strange animal that resides here...

Of course, not for people that idealize intelligence... «The least intelligent of all animals» ... Maybe was Wilhelm projecting? Did he ever take care of piglets or fishes?

Inspiring confidence to piglets and fishes is easy. One has to be tranquil, amiable and feed them.

Of course, it doesn't function all the times. Don't ry with boars or sharks!

With persons passes the same.


Best regards,


Charly


P.D.:
What's the meaning of your new avatar? I can't see.
Ch.
 

rodaki

visitor
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
2,176
Reaction score
26
Hi, Dora:

I see that you also like pigs an fishes.

Some things touch us in the middle of our own heart, sometimes unexpectedly.
If we should catch the strange animal that resides here...

Of course, not for people that idealize intelligence... «The least intelligent of all animals» ... Maybe was Wilhelm projecting? Did he ever take care of piglets or fishes?

Inspiring confidence to piglets and fishes is easy. One has to be tranquil, amiable and feed them.

Of course, it doesn't function all the times. Don't ry with boars or sharks!

With persons passes the same.


Best regards,


Charly


P.D.:
What's the meaning of your new avatar? I can't see.
Ch.

hi Charly,

pigs and fishes is what the texts speak of, I'm no expert myself
what I do know is that 61 has shown up for me when I was tranquil or when I needed to become so and just be (maybe 61 is the wu wei of knowledge? without knowing all known . .)

the avatar is a work by the calligrapher Hassan Massoudy, you can take a better look at it here

best,
Dora
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
... pigs and fishes is what the texts speak of...
... 61 has shown up for me when I was tranquil or when I needed to become so and just be...
the avatar is a work by the calligrapher Hassan Massoudy...
Hi, Dora:

Not necessarily, I believe that always Yi speak to us and almost always about ourselves.


In+Truth+There+Is+Love+-+Elvira+Amrhein.jpg
The more you clearly understand yourself and your emotions, the more you become a lover of what is. (Baruch Spinoza)
From: The Quoteable I Ching
at: http://ichingquotes.blogspot.com/search/label/Hexagram 61

I will take the link.

Yours,

Charly

P.D.

And all without using a Perry 341!

http://www.linternaute.com/video/82487/decouvrez-l-art-de-la-calligraphie-arabe/

Ch.
 
Last edited:

rodaki

visitor
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
2,176
Reaction score
26
Hi, Dora:

Not necessarily, I believe that always Yi speak to us and almost always about ourselves.

hi Charly,

yes, you are right, I am probably over-simplifying things by seeing only the tranquility of 61 . . maybe what I wanted to say is that this hexagram makes me think a lot about those parts of us that we decide upon and those that we discover . .
but don't let me get started on the decisions talk, I'm only trying to understand

if you don't mind, I'd like to ask . . how else can we listen to what moves in the empty space of 61 if not by looking towards tranquility? how do we approach the elusive animal?

p.s: thank you for the links, both were great!

take care
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,109
Reaction score
72
the avatar is a work by the calligrapher Hassan Massoudy, you can take a better look at it here

best,
Dora

Oh my, Massoudy's calligraphy is just beautiful. Thanks for sharing the link.
 

rodaki

visitor
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
2,176
Reaction score
26
you're welcome Luis :)
i think it's safe to say he is a master . .
 

my_key

visitor
Joined
Mar 22, 1971
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
552
Hi rodaki
What you are sharing at the moment is truly beautiful :bows:
Thank you

if you don't mind, I'd like to ask . . how else can we listen to what moves in the empty space of 61 if not by looking towards tranquility? how do we approach the elusive animal?
This is a great question - one that each of us has asked of ourselves in many different ways. For me, the way I see it at the moment.There are signs all around us all the time, every day. At times we are all too judgmental to notice them. Indeed,some of the signs are too painful for us to take into the tranquility to merge with them, we choose to stay outside and play the games of the minds and the egos. The truth hurts and we can not always find the courage to journey into the place of inner truth, where we sit inside that box with nothing protecting us from the glaring light of our own truth.

The truth is a bitter sweet pill - first to find it is hard, then to swallow it is even more difficult especially when we sit in judgement of ourselves. I guess it depends a lot on where we are looking for that tranquility that is a huge part of the understanding.

Now here's another question
How do we know we have found it?
The answer is perhaps found when there are no more questions.

Mike
 
Last edited:

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
THE JUDGEMENT

INNER TRUTH. Pigs and fishes.
Good fortune.
It furthers one to cross the great water.
Perseverance furthers.

Commentary on the Decision

INNER TRUTH. The yielding are within, yet the strong hold the middle. Joyous and gentle: thereby truly the country is transformed.
"Pigs and fishes. Good fortune." The power of trust extends to pigs and fishes.
"It furthers one to cross the great water." One makes use of the hollow of a wooden boat. Inner truth, and perseverance to further one: thus man is in accord with heaven.
The yielding are the third and forth line. The strong in the middle in the two trigrams are the second and the fifth line. The yielding lines in the middle of the hexagram create an empty space. This emptiness of heart, this humility, is necessary to attract what is good. However, central firmness and strength are needed to assure the essential trustworthiness. Thus the foundation on which the hexagram is built is an intermingling of yieldingness and strength.
Joyousness and gentleness are the attributes of the two primary trigrams: Tui means joyousness in following the good, and Sun means penetration into the hearts of men. Thus one establishes the foundation of trust that is necessary in transforming a country.
Pigs and fishes are the least intelligent of all creatures, When even such creatures are influenced, it shows the great power of truth. Wood and water, and a hollowed cavity, are interpreted as the image of a boat with which the great stream can be crossed.
-Wilhelm
 
M

maremaria

Guest
This is a great question - one that each of us has asked of ourselves in many different ways. For me, the way I see it at the moment.There are signs all around us all the time, every day. At times we are all too judgmental to notice them. Indeed,some of the signs are too painful for us to take into the tranquility to merge with them, we choose to stay outside and play the games of the minds and the egos. The truth hurts and we can not always find the courage to journey into the place of inner truth, where we sit inside that box with nothing protecting us from the glaring light of our own truth.



Mike

:)

Now here's another question
How do we know we have found it?

from the sound of silence...indeed!
 
M

meng

Guest
Pigs and fishes are the least intelligent of all creatures, When even such creatures are influenced, it shows the great power of truth. Wood and water, and a hollowed cavity, are interpreted as the image of a boat with which the great stream can be crossed.
-Wilhelm

I'd like to know, by what means has pigs and fish been deemed the least intelligent creatures? Surely anyone with an understanding of 61 wouldn't use it as an opportunity to compare levels of intelligence. Even though his point is made, it's an almost vulgar statement. I guess he never stopped to think: What might a pig or fish have to say? What is truth to them? At the core, all life holds the same truth. Even inert matter is filled with it, though you have to listen very carefully.
 

my_key

visitor
Joined
Mar 22, 1971
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
552
I'd like to know, by what means has pigs and fish been deemed the least intelligent creatures? Surely anyone with an understanding of 61 wouldn't use it as an opportunity to compare levels of intelligence. Even though his point is made, it's an almost vulgar statement. I guess he never stopped to think: What might a pig or fish have to say? What is truth to them? At the core, all life holds the same truth. Even inert matter is filled with it, though you have to listen very carefully.

Hi Meng
Perhaps intelligence is an alternative used by Wilhelm for consciousness. At the level of pig and fish existence they are already living their inner truth. Just being a pig or a fish is enough for them.
The point, that Wilhelm chose not to expand may be to take the symbology here rather than the literal.
The chinese text gives pig as "suckling pig" - so maybe some element of immaturity here. A pig is not as smart as a dog in understanding human thought. It likes sleeping and eating and becomes fat. Thus it usually features laziness and clumsiness. On the positive side it is all about affluence and abundance -quick and determined decision maker..
Fish are linked to cosmic philosphy or religion by most ancient peoples. All things wrapped up in the intangible.

The text for the judgement is more in keeping with having to experience both of these in order to benefit from their teachings and to step into that empty boat that gets us all across that great river.
For what ever reason, Wilhelm fell short of expressing all that he could of here. Perhaps on the one hand Wilhelm was a vegetarian or just had a downer on those two animals; or maybe it was all so obvious for him he didn't feel he needed to add anything else. Who knows?

Even inert matter is filled with it, though you have to listen very carefully.
I agree, it's not always easy to hear the inate natter of the inert matter.:)

Mike
 
Last edited:

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top