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63.1.2.5 - will it be good for me if i stop negociating and go to the judge?

scorpioontherun

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Hello everybody,
some times ago I asked about shared custody in a divorce settlement and the ching (as willofox;)) told me to negociate that I could not win ... well since then I negociated I tried veeerrrryyy hard to make him understand, no way.:brickwall:
The thing is that not only he does not want to give me shared custody of the children (on petty motives) but he wants to stay in the house (which is mine) a lot of money ... all that because I'm leaving him (I have to add that I leave him because he is verbally abusive, he always made me feel I'm worth nothing ecc.)
So I'm tired of negociating because his concept of negociating is "you give me what I want and then you can go" so I'm thinking, I send the papers and the judge will decide for us.
So my question is: will it be good for me if I stop negociating with X and go to the judge?
I got 63.1.2.5 to 46
While 63.1 tell me not to rush (god it's 5 months that I'm not rushing)
63.2 tells that I what will be taken (or wants to be taken from me) it will be also given back in a short period of time
63.5 means i have to get used to be poor? (Thanks god I'm not ... for now)
It all becomes 46 - Pushing upwards (Beneficial to see the great man - the judge?)
Thanks for your help with this one - it's urgent - I have to take a decision today
Scorpio
 

Tohpol

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Hello everybody,
some times ago I asked about shared custody in a divorce settlement and the ching (as willofox;)) told me to negociate that I could not win ... well since then I negociated I tried veeerrrryyy hard to make him understand, no way.:brickwall:
The thing is that not only he does not want to give me shared custody of the children (on petty motives) but he wants to stay in the house (which is mine) a lot of money ... all that because I'm leaving him (I have to add that I leave him because he is verbally abusive, he always made me feel I'm worth nothing ecc.)
So I'm tired of negociating because his concept of negociating is "you give me what I want and then you can go" so I'm thinking, I send the papers and the judge will decide for us.
So my question is: will it be good for me if I stop negociating with X and go to the judge?
I got 63.1.2.5 to 46
While 63.1 tell me not to rush (god it's 5 months that I'm not rushing)
63.2 tells that I what will be taken (or wants to be taken from me) it will be also given back in a short period of time
63.5 means i have to get used to be poor? (Thanks god I'm not ... for now)
It all becomes 46 - Pushing upwards (Beneficial to see the great man - the judge?)
Thanks for your help with this one - it's urgent - I have to take a decision today
Scorpio
My take on this seems to indicate that this Hex is reflecting your state of mind and the currrent situation. Everything is in it's right place but you've suddenly placed an obstacles in front of it by doubting the process. Line 1 can indicate the ego whispering in your ear suggesting an easier route. Negotiation might still be the correct path here. Are you willing to see it through to the end and keep on keeping on without getting fed up and impatient, especially when what you have lost may return sooner than you think as indicated by line 2? Line 5 reiterates the idea of persistance and having become distracted and impatient to get what you perceive as rightfully yours. Perhaps you need to see the bigger picture here and regain your faith that things will work out for the best if you let the process find it's way and not give in. 46 pushing upwards. To what? Your potential. Can you let the best of you come forth?

In summary, I'd let things continue for a while before considering the Judge. Everything is ready. You'll be OK if you stick with it. That's how I see it.

Topal
 

scorpioontherun

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thanks so much to both of you ... I think you are both right. The thing here is that the local law protects me and that he is trying to make me feel guilty to obtain everything (or out of fear). After a terrible scene he made in front of the children I decided that this cannot last .. the waiting I mean. Up until now I did not wnt to go to the judge to find a common solution maybe giving a little bit more of money and practical stuff but retaining harmony as much as possible. To follow the path of least resistance as the Yi would say. Yesterday he called my best friend (and godmother of one of my children) and he basically said that he still wants half of everithing (which he is not legally entitled to) but he will not concede on shared custody, so for the time being I feel the judge is the only one who could decide. I'm scared that if I give him all he asks I still not have shared custody of my children and more that that I will be in really deep financial trouble.
so I asked the Yi "Should I give X what he asks for concerning the settlement and just go?"
I got 13.4.9 .... is it a Yes?
 

Tohpol

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so I asked the Yi "Should I give X what he asks for concerning the settlement and just go?"
I got 13.4.9 .... is it a Yes?

Line 4 often means you are ready and willing to fight when in fact, it isn't necessary and/or it would backfire if you tried to force things. There's too much potent energy flying around for things to take a reasonable course. 9 often has this idea of destiny taking a while to unfold in one's favour but if we take the time to do so it often works out OK. 13 is about harmony, friendship. It's also about faith and trust - in the process.

That may not necessarily mean giving up everything or allowing him to walk all over you but it may mean adopting an entirely different approach which includes the idea of not forcing the issue at this time. Not easy though. Wish you well.

Topal
 

scorpioontherun

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Merci beaucop Topal, je vais attendre encore quelque jours avant de prendre ma decision definitive et voir si le jeu se calme ....

(aka thanks, I'm going to wait few more days to see how it goes before taking my final decision and see if it steams off a little bit)
 

scorpioontherun

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Actually today would have been a better day since I would have got a good judge that afterwords wil go in maternity leave .... but hey, why ask the Yi if afterwords one will not follow its advice
 

Tohpol

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Oops. 13.4 changes to 37 not 9. My mistake. Still, no change in the essential reading from point of view. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

And keep us informed as that's how we all learn. (Vous écrivez le français très bien!:D)

Topal
 
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scorpioontherun

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dear all,
i try to cast come yi reading on the outcome of this legal procedure so
the firs is wil i obtain shared children custody?
21.2.5 to 12
what do you say? biting through is "benefit of a lawsuit" line 2 is telling me to stop but line 5 tell me i will get the golden arrow? And 12 is the stagnation we are now (we can not agree on a common position) or that nothing will change?Help please
 

scorpioontherun

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and also will i get to keep on livin in the house?
57.3.6 to 29 so no. I have to let the house go?
 

willowfox

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i try to cast come yi reading on the outcome of this legal procedure so
the firs is wil i obtain shared children custody?
21.2.5 to 12
I would imagine that your partner is going to try to cause trouble for you when your case comes up before the judge, so what you have to do is act calm, make sure you tell all the details of your partner's misbehaviour and just let your partner be angry and whatever in front of the judge, that should settle it in your favour.

Be very careful of your partner as the man is quite cunning, so watch out for his tricks, and tell the judge that you want access to the children as you are their mother.
 

Tohpol

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57.3 can also be referring to negative influences within ourselves such as impatience and agitation. 57.6 seems to warn against looking at things too deeply, at least in relation to the house i.e. slow down, one step at a time. Not everything can be seen clearly yet so don't rush to have all the answers, frustrating though that may be.

Topal
 

ginnie

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"Should I give X what he asks for concerning the settlement and just go?"
I got 13.4.9 .... is it a Yes?
Here is what Sarah Dening has to say about 4th line moving in H13: Misunderstandings separate you from others, leaving you on the defensive. In the end all concerned will come to their senses and realize that fighting will achieve nothing. The situation will then improve.
 

scorpioontherun

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thanks to all,
I hope topal is right but house is not what matters me the most, children are. Willofox (and topal) thanks for replying all the time, it is of great confort to me.
Ginnie, the line is great but I think now we are too far for that ... I kind of fear my vision is blurred and I'm going the wrong way ... i don't know I feel so confused, I do not even know what to ask to the Yi ... Today he told me that if I go to the judge (he did not receive the official papers yet) he will destroy me (metaphorically I hope) ... I should as the Yi if he will succeed?
 

scorpioontherun

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instead i asked: shoud i stop the procedure?
14.1.4. to 18 .... yes? Goooooddd I don't know what to do anymore
Or I should stop asking the Yi :)
 

willowfox

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instead i asked: shoud i stop the procedure?
14.1.4. to 18 .... yes? Goooooddd I don't know what to do anymore
Or I should stop asking the Yi :)

Your answer indicates that you should carry on, but it warns you to becareful of him, as I said before he's a cunning so and so.

While line 14.4 says that you are in a dangerous position but again to carry on regardless.

Hex 18 is about repairing the damage caused by this man. It says that something does indeed need to be done, and that entails seeing the judge. You need "to stir up the people"(as the text says) which means notifying the law. To also let the judge know that he has threatened you, therefore you need to take this chance to expose him.
This man has spoiled the relationship and the judge can get it all sorted out, so if you give up now then it will only get worse.
 

my_key

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instead i asked: shoud i stop the procedure?
14.1.4. to 18 .... yes? Goooooddd I don't know what to do anymore
Or I should stop asking the Yi :)
HI scorpionontherun
The posts you are making show how difficult this whole process of removing yourself from an abusive relationship is for you. It's all leaving you in a state of mental turmoil, nor sure what questions to ask and what to make of the answers. Doubting yourself and the truth of you actions.
Although it is undoubtedly difficult this could be a good time to take a deep breath (physically and metaphorically) and perhaps not allow yourself to get carried away by the flow of all that is going on around you.

Hex 14 is about inner strength and outer clarity.
14.1 - Remain conscious of the difficulties that are facing you. Don't avoid them but at the same time do not get drawn into the murky depths of them. Stay strong and you will be able to stay afloat.
14.4 - This is about seeing he things around you for what they are. Being strong and walking your own path regardless of all the loud noises that are going on around you.
Hex 18 - Working on what has been spoiled. This is the path that you are walking now. All the hardships, doubts,trials and tribulations about the procedure and all things around it are part of the workings that you have to see your way through.

Sometimes the only person who knows the answers is the real you - deep inside. Finding the courage to speak to the hurt part of you that is trapped deep inside is difficult to do. Only you will know what is inside you and what direction you truely want to go in now for your greater good. Perhaps the Yi is saying to take time out to find the strength that will allow you to go forward in a way that is best for you.

Be Well

Mike
 

arabella

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Dear Scorpion, it sounds like you are in a very sensitive position to be relying on YiChing Friends' interpretation as legal and practical advice. You also sound frightened and in a rush and in a very difficult position to make sound decisions otherwise. I've been in your spot, almost exactly. I was threatened with precisely the same thing and, although I should have known better, was completely intimidated by my husband. I don't know what country you are in, and that may really matter in terms of how the courts treat family situations such as this one. Here's what I did in my own case. Maybe it will help. First I got a really good lawyer who was used to dealing with intimidating men. This was a lawyer with practice, not just in divorce, but in criminal cases, because my Ex was stalking me and threatening me. I made sure that everybody close by knew that he was into these behaviors and I made sure he knew that other people were aware that he was trying to scare me. I told my lawyer what he was doing and had that noted for the court too. The children and I went and stayed with my parents. I documented absolutely every incidence of verbal abuse, threats and intimidating behavior I could remember, in writing, and gave it to my lawyer. In the end, I got full custody of the children and he was awarded the most controled visiting rights the court could offer. He was moved out and the children and I had the house, while he was ordered to pay support for us. He avoided paying for two years but, eventually, was forced to do it. He continued to be rotten to the children and there were problems with his attitude, but gradually he got the idea that he couldn't bully us without the courts finding out. If you have fears this man could hurt you, inform your lawyer right now, get help from the police, find another place to be that he can't find you and the children. Don't allow your confusion to prevent you from seeking help and being protected right now. Don't wait. I know that's not advice based on anything from the YiChing, but speaking from experience I know what you need more than that is immediate protection and to deal out of common sense.
 
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willowfox

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I know that's not advice based on anything from the YiChing,
Ah! But its very similar to the advice the hexs have given her, look to Hex 18, "The superior person stirs up the people", in other words its telling her to tell other people of her situation and in doing so, gain help.

She can no no longer make things better with this man as the relationship has gone past its sell-by-date, therefore Hex 18 is advising her to rid herself of the cause of the problem.

So, your advice is from the I Ching afterall.
 

arabella

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WillowFox, yes, on the face of it, the advice is probably quite similar. But I hope Scorpion will also be sure to get support to protect herself and her children, and keep them safe in all ways possible. If her husband is angry and feeling cornered she needs to be prepared that he may lash out. We don't know the situation through and through, and that might or might not occur. However, for all their sakes, including his, it may be wise to prevent confrontation that everyone would regret afterward when they've calmed down.
 

scorpioontherun

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Dear all,
first of all let me thank you from the bottom of my heart for your words, time and caring support. Today he will receive the tribunal papers and all my friends are on the alert, gsm charged and redy to come to my rescue should something happend. But I don't think he'll do anything, just be plain mad. I was reading my horoscope today and I saw I have mars in the 12th house for two monts(that reads "Your efforts at self-assertion are undermined ")
So I asked the Yi "will I have the strenght to self assert myself during the divorce and pull things though in a good way for me?" response 16.3 to 62 ... don't aim to high, but I will have to find the strenght
 

arabella

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Hex 62

Great Scorpion, really glad you are progressing and getting support. In your exhausting position you need help from friends and family, that's for sure. Take care of your health and try to get rest and not keep "playing the tapes" in your head of what and how and how much. I know that is REALLY hard to do when you have to get through confrontation and unsettled times and rely on court authorities to see the people in the situation for what they are.

In my own experience the court focused almost entirely on what children need -- the adults could figure it out for themselves. The court tried to deliver what was best for the children, who were protected to the extent that is possible, which is what you want, what most parents want no matter how much they argue between themselves. One thing my father brought to my attention, which proved to be true over time, was that my ex didn't really want the children, he just wanted to harrass me. My ex even demanded visiting rights -- with me. Even his own lawyer couldn't keep a straight face. Eventually the weird agendas come to light. Further to that, in general men don't want, nor can they manage, the ongoing responsibility of children -- although they see custody fights as a bargaining chip, as your husband is doing. There may be exceptions, but most men seem more focused on work and don't want obligations that detract from that. So threatening to take children is usually an idle threat and the courts are saavy to how seldom a man will warrant sole custody, or even joint custody. They usually want to know HOW this will work.

About the outcome, Hexagram 62, I recently had that for somebody in my family who was going through a regimented process to receive a decision that meant a lot to them. At first I was reading Hex 62 as a minimal result -- not great expectations as you say. THEN I suddenly realised that it actually indicated the process was necessary, regimented, no great UPS and DOWNS, just the normal way a procedure goes and that the decisions that emanated from that would be the expected ones, the logical ones. Which is exactly what transpired. To me, in your situation, that is also very encouraging because you don't want a huge court upheaval, you want things to progress steadily and in the usual way.

The 16.3 I would read as the indication that you are merely trying to defend yourself against someone who is threatening you, and you should definitely keep that in mind, pay attention and stay out of harm's way. You are trying to get a handle on the situation to create a beneficial outcome and preserve what you can, with fairness to yourself as well.

I would definitely plan to be staying somewhere else with your children when he is served any documents. Don't rely on his rationality because he may feel compelled to make a "statement" and, face it, guys are primed from infancy for physical reactions to stress through sports and every movie ever made. Your best defense is a good offense and that's where your ability to keep motivated and progressing will come from.:hug:
 
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willowfox

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Line 16.3 shows your fear and your feeling of dependency but it is telling you to get cracking and stand up for yourself, to take care of yourself. So you have the ability to do just fine, but you need to just let go of any doubts and fears, so don't hesitate to follow through to the end. I mean you will have the strength to endure the legal proceedings, I do not mean that you assert yourself in an aggressive or overbearing way.

Hex 62 suggests the need to keep to the facts of the case, resist the urge to make a drama and draw unwelcome attention to yourself, just be sensible, realistic and well behaved in front of the judge, let your partner get angry and it will look so much better for you. You have hidden reserves of strength, use them but this is a time of endurance but not showmanship, you need to play the mouse.
 

scorpioontherun

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dear all,
the papers have been received, he called me in the office for an hour to tell me how disappointed he was in me, that i never tried to negociate; that i did not need to have e lawyer or to go and see the judge, BUT that the kids are better off with him so he did not understand why I asked them :: you see i'm the only one working in the houshold (and home by 6:30 pm) so he has more time than me to stay with the kids :: i replied that no judge will penalize a woman who worked to support her family ,,, well i hope so at least. and than he said the plain thruth ... he does not want me to have shared custody because in the week i will not have the children i will be able to have a life without feeling guilty ... control issues i guess. Anyhow he did not hit me, and in these days is just sometimes unpleasant ... first hearing tuesday and then again friday but they will be just to fix the agenda. Whish me luck
I asked the yi. how the next week hearings will go for me
35.3.5 to 33
the lines seems very positive but the retreat????
 

arabella

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Hex 35 line 3 says to me that you are going to have good support in the legal discussion, and there will ultimately be agreement behind this so that matters can go forward. It is possible even your husband will agree with the sense of what is being said, maybe for the good of the children. Maybe he'll be asked why he doesn't have work and urged to find some?

Hex 35, line 5, says not to feel that you've lost something in the negotiations that are taking place. In the longrun, you've lost nothing. If "everything serves to further" than it's a completely winning game here. This is urging you to consider the long term of the agreements.

The outcome, Hexagram 33, often called retreat, or withdrawal, would indicate to me that you can climb down from a confrontational position and let the court do the work you thought you'd have to do to settle the issues.
 

willowfox

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I asked the yi. how the next week hearings will go for me
35.3.5 to 33
You will receive a fair deal of support in you legal action against your partner, and you will need help so go with it as "people" will be looking out for your best interests. Therefore, so stay calm but make sure that you win.

Hex 33 is simple, keep away from him, and do not get into fights or arguments with the guy, let the court deal with him as they have the power.
 

ginnie

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Your money situation will be taken care of very nicely for you by the court. Out of all this insanity, at least you will have that security.
 

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