...life can be translucent

Menu

64. Wei Chi / Before Completion

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,110
Reaction score
83
You have a long history of silly, sexy posts here on Clarity. Simply make a post or write an article of Sparhawk's gift to the world, the revelation of the deepest, darkest secrets of the Classic Book of Changes. Divide that work into two canons, the upper one The Vaginal I Ching which already has a niche in Google Search that no one is now serving. The lower one could be like the X for Dummies or the Complete Idiot's Guide to X, but your own, not part of another franchise. This could be The Total Prick's Guide to Scoring Big with the Vaginal I Ching.

As a graduate of a Rio de la Plata region high school you have background in the interests of the Total Prick in terms of relating to women.

Frank, I'll take that as an attempt of humor, so thank you. However, I find the whole notion grossly stereotypical of Hispanic culture, casted upon my regional geography on top of it, and way off the mark on reality. But, let's leave it at that.

Also, in my Primer, I speak of the oracle that forms in the open space between the Yin lines of hex 2 as Oracle matrix as the birth canal of the Yi. That in technical terms is Vaginal I Ching.

You have my I Ching Primer, your work would be your own evolution of those ideas as is the justification and intent of the Copyright Law in the U.S. Constitution. The grant of monopoly over who can print copies of your work, in exchange for the free access to ideas and text to use as the background (Yin) of other authors publications of their developed or better work. :bows: :)

Frank

I assure you, my work isn't, even remotely, associated with anything you've written. My mentioning of "paths" has nothing to do with the space between the broken Yin lines and your visualization of 2 "the birth canal of the Yi". My "paths" don't run through that empty space in the Yin lines. And I do have your book and other materials published online. The only thing they have in common is that they both talk about the I Ching.
 

pocossin

visitor
Joined
Feb 7, 1970
Messages
4,521
Reaction score
105
sparhawk said:
. . . I could present it as is, that is, publish a Yijing book replacing the known hexagrams with mine and six months from there, I can picture the first T-shirts and tattoos. . .

Thanks for the account, Luis. I'll wait for the book and will go for the T-shirt :)

Tom
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,994
Reaction score
2,085
Hmmm..I think there's been enought drinking wine in confidence and now people are risking getting their heads wet ..
rosada.
 

fkegan

visitor
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
2,052
Reaction score
19
Frank, I'll take that as an attempt of humor, so thank you. However, I find the whole notion grossly stereotypical of Hispanic culture, casted upon my regional geography on top of it, and way off the mark on reality. But, let's leave it at that.
Hi Luis,
Did you forget I spent a winter in Collegio Nacional N. 2 in Rosario, Argentina enjoying the bife de loma, dulce de leche and wondering why they thought chicken was so special?

I was simply speaking from my experience with MY classmates in that region. They embraced me very warmly, after carving swastikas in the underside of my desk, and we chatted often of their exploits and intentions with girls and women. It is true that as an American raised in a feminist household I found them total pricks, but it was their expression of Self, the same as I found as an intern working for the Franco government in Spain where as I sat in the library of the SNCPyOR reading up on European land consolidation, I would be called to the window to admire every passing pretty girl along with all the other men there, then the conversation went to discuss the intent of the women at the swimming pool who must be there to find sex partners ("...the same as us" to quote in English the conversation from summer 1967).

I never intended that your scholarly work was anything like any of my work, only that the topic I offered you would solve your problem with piracy of your ideas, as Charles Dodson was asked to dedicate his next book to Queen Victoria and it turned out to be a a math tome. He also didn't like her, she was a liberal making changes to the traditions of Oxford and much of his "Off with their heads" Queen was his parody of her for the actual Alice who had seen her when the Queen visited Oxford.

I would love once your book is published to debate your perspective. Until then, your inherent sweetness is causing you problems. You were asked about your system and you made an answer, that if I were still searching for the key to the KWS would have me hot on your trail to your secret treasure. Fortunately, I am totally familiar with the premises of your perspective and they do not interest me.

So, get your work published! You are in NJ and the U.S. copyright law was changed in the '70's to make anything written on paper or by computer protected by copyright, you only have to register it, now, before you sue for infringement. Put your notes you wrote in a box with a title label upon it, secure it in a safe and it is by the definitions of the U.S. law a copyrighted book.

My father came to the breakfast table one morning after listening to a corporate executive (on a late night TV discussion show) talk about his super secret new technology to make fresh water from sea water. He was excited since from just one fact, it was a freezing process at 31 degrees F (0 Celsius) he had pierced the mystery. Sea water can not freeze at that temperature unless subjected to vacuum. I started a science project using that process the next day, but changed to a simpler technology for my science fair. The system my father imagined was what was later announced publicly when the veil of secrecy was lifted.

Find some solution to your dilemma, personally I would suggest just putting it up on a website with the Title YIJING that will establish your priority and put your work available to the Search engines. Certainly ask the Yi, but I expect that few would be eager to steal something not marked I Ching.

Frank
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,287
Reaction score
167
...
Charly - is there time still to say why Wilhem ommited the second 有孚 YOU FU in 64.6?
Hi, Mike:

I was out and miss a lot of polemics. I go to scroll back when I have time. Meanwhile, here is the rough translation of 64.6:

W/B in UPPERCASE:

you3: to have / there is / there are / THERE IS
fu2: to capture / war captive //confidence / reliability / GENUINE CONFIDENCE
yu2: breath / exhale / at / to / IN
yin3: drink / DRINKING
jiu3: wine / liquor / spirits / [OF] WINE

wu2: without / not / no / avoid / NO
jiu4: blame / to blame / mistake / BLAME

ru2: to wet / to moisten / [BUT IF ONE] WETS
qi2: his / her / its / that / such / HIS
shou3: head / chief / HEAD

you3: to have / there is / there are / [???]
fu2: trust / confidence / reliability // to capture / war captive / [???]
shi1: to lose / to miss / to fail / [HE] LOSES [IT]
shi4: indeed / right (instead of wrong) / IN TRUTH

W/B twisted the syntax in the first paragraph and ommited the second YOU FU. Lee how Legge managed this line:

The topmost NINE, undivided, shows its subject full of confidence and therefore feasting (quietly). There will be no error. (If he) cherish this confidence, till he (is like the fox who) gets his head immersed, it will fail of what is right.

From: http://www.yellowbridge.com/onlinelit/yijing64.php

Note that although one could think that the words between brackets are the only added to the original, there are much many other words not between brackets that are not in the original.

I believe that these operations depict some disconfortabilty of both author with 64.6.

I have the feeling that YOU announces sometimes a sort of RIDDLE, speaking of an UNKNOWN or maybe UNKNOWABLE thing: There is an X that ... so and so...

THERE IS [A] FU [THAT] AT DRINKING WINE [IS] NO WRONG.
The FU is drinking wine or is present when doing it, and this is without blame.
Drinking wime: enjoying, maybe in advance but no wrong.

[IF] WETTING ITS HEAD THERE IS [A] FU LOST INDEED.
There are some FUS (or at least one FU) that wettig its head are lost, without doubt.

I believe that all the line depends on the sense of wetting the head, and it can have much meanings.

(To be continued)

Yours,

Charly

Of course, there is a kind of TABOO in the character or in the word FU. In MWD manuscript it was sistematically replaced by a character meaning:
  • TURN ROUND, TURN OVER, COME BACK
  • ANSWER, REPLAY
  • RECOVER, RETURN, RESTORE (even RESTORATION like that of a defeated ruler or dynasty), REVENGE
  • AGAIN, REPEATEDLY

    I wonder what sort of taboo.

    Ch.
 

fkegan

visitor
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
2,052
Reaction score
19
I assure you, my work isn't, even remotely, associated with anything you've written. My mentioning of "paths" has nothing to do with the space between the broken Yin lines and your visualization of 2 "the birth canal of the Yi". My "paths" don't run through that empty space in the Yin lines. And I do have your book and other materials published online. The only thing they have in common is that they both talk about the I Ching.

Hi Luis,

I always appreciate your attention to my work, though you have missed a bit here that may be instructive to explain. I use a set of 6 broken lines as a matrix upon which any and all Oracles can be written, allowing a printed template for convenient Oracle development. It isn't hex 2, just 6 broken lines or perhaps absolute Yin lines. Hex 2 is its own Oracle that forms when the space between the set of 6 broken lines bears no other marks. That space between the broken lines is only the birth canal of an Oracle not of the entire Yi. From the Yi Spirit itself through the action of our forming a question and casting our lines we develop an Oracle that appears to the world through this 6-broken line matrix as birth canal. A Yang connection, a moving Yin development, a moving Yang expression may each take form in that space, or it can remain in the background becoming a static Yin line.

Hex 64 thus forms as a set of clear cut dichotomies, just Yin or Yang in equal, balanced and coordinated set. It has hex 63 for its nuclear and develops from hex 63 completion being questioned and resisted by the External or Environment line pair of Yang over Yin. The Yang line in the 6th place expresses a focus upon what will come next.The Yin line in the first place ignores what is the current situation. Together they push whatever currently is, as the completion of the prior, towards its next step of development.

That's my system. As to yours, it is hard to comment upon what isn't in open discussion. I still believe your post here on Clarity as Tom did his, would establish your priority and ownership. If you put your notes in a box with a title label upon it as your book of your system. Post your views on a thread here. Should someone swoop down and steal it all and make a huge splash upon the world. I offer you the services of my brother and our family copyright law firm to track them down and bring them to justice. Copyright law is one of the few fields that includes provision for the prevailing party to collect their attorney fees. In general, just having copyright counsel engaged is sufficient to prevent infringement as the little guys fear litigation and the big ones respect the rules of the game.

It is important for you to get your system out and presented to the World. Anything I can do to facilitate that I will. You can checkout http://www.keganlaw.com/ for yourself if you wish, my brother has done a nice job with the firm. My mother took pity upon an English gentleman whose father had been a prof. of medieval history and written some fantasy books, but had problems with his copyright renewal under the old law. She got him justice, shutting down ABC who were going to present a pirated animation from Japan based on the books; then went to Japan and won injunction there too.

Frank
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,110
Reaction score
83
Thanks Frank. I'll save this information.
 

Tohpol

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
3,566
Reaction score
92
Hi Tom,

Do to its nature, much can be made of the KWS. IMO, there are two ways to see it: 1) as a mathematical construct; 2) as an intertextuality narrative sequence. As I've mentioned earlier, I believe the mathematical key to the sequence has been found by Richard S. Cook, which in and by itself is a great achievement that took him a phone size book to render in a comprehensive way. Math, like they say, is the language of the Universe; grant enough time and knowledge to a researcher and they will come up with a "Chaos Theory" and more... However, the KWS isn't just a mathematical curiosity; it is a compound of intrinsic and mostly conventional symbology (I say "conventional" because there are accepted meanings for trigrams/hexagrams/yin/yang that have come down to us from antiquity, based on observation and visualization and a certain arbitrariness thrown in for good measure), intertextuality and a given sequence marrying both symbology and meaning in a cohesive narrative. Does my system "explain the appended text -- why a particular image is a associated with a particular line"? I believe it can provide a key to it, yes. Meaning can be derived from the different "paths," "hinges" and "symmetries" that are found in the KWS, as seen thru the glass of my system. I am biased, of course, but at least I do see it. That others will see it, well, that remains to be seen. (I see that all that mentioning of seeing is perhaps redundant... :D)

My system is just a different way to visualize the symbols of the Yijing. I do away with the received hexagrams for the sake of finding, I believe, what's hidden behind the known symbology. I have come to believe that the received convention for the symbolic representation of what we know as "Yin and Yang" is an obfuscation of an older, simpler system. Or, perhaps, the representation of Yin as a broken line and Yang as an undivided line is a natural evolution. Purposely obfuscation or natural evolution is beside the point that a more ancient visualization of duality existed, and, IMO, was used for divination. The clues are everywhere in archaeological findings. They are, perhaps, too obvious to be noticed if one doesn't know what to look for.

Funny thing is that I came upon my "replacement system" first, some 20 years ago, by just playing around with a way to short-hand the hexagrams and shelved it. What prompted me to study all this background was that, a few years ago, I started using it again and once I applied it to the Fuxi sequence (or Shao Yong's, if you wish to tag it to him), I was blown away: the linear sequence is a perfectly symmetrical picture. I told myself: "Self, that can't be a pretty coincidence and is doubtful that some Xia or Shang scribe wasn't playing with this stuff already, 3500 years ago..." I am still kicking myself for not doing that way back then... A consolation is that a lot of new material and conclusions, supporting my thoughts, have come to light in those years, that wasn't available then. Hence my time studying all the material I can get my hands on. If I wished, I could present it as is, that is, publish a Yijing book replacing the known hexagrams with mine and six months from there, I can picture the first T-shirts and tattoos on people (quite literally, indeed). But I want to provide a "why," a good reason for the replacement.

Alas, It is still the Yijing. The text is the same. The meaning of the hexagrams and trigrams would be the same. It will not replace what the Yijing is; it hasn't for me. It will simply "add" a visual tool for the interpretation of them in readings and exegetical studies.


It does indeed sound tantalizing. That perfect symmetry moment must have given you the chills - in a profound way. That seems to be the beauty of the I Ching in that by it's very nature, it lends itself to infinte interpretations with direct symbology / imagery as it is imo, multi-dimensional at source. I'd would love to hear more about the archaelogical aspect...How does this connect with other historical changes going on at the time? Examples?

Do you have any ideas as to the origin of this "simpler system"? I find that fascinating as I think intuitively this HAS to be a natural consequence of such a downflow process which, like all processes that are "soul-infused" or "Divine" to use romantic terms, inevitably and naturally reach a state that are at this material level a mere reflection of their original state, where there is complexity as baggage rather than being indicative of the inherent simplicity....I think I'm making sense lol.

I'm personally drifting more and more to an abstract "artistic" interpretation of each hex via abstraction / iconography. Nothing to do with a new workable divinatory process (I'm not that clever) just something to connect to at a more elemental / level in order to feel it. Art is my bag and I hope to do it justice that way. The I Ching essence can be translated very easily I think in this way. (Similar to Crop circle transference perhaps?)

But I also very much look forward to hearing more about the "Sparhawk System." No more shyness now :D :cool:

Topal
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,287
Reaction score
167
(Anyone looking for the dialogue between Chris and Frank, here it is.)
Hilary:

I have miss a post of yours, but don't worry. This sort of things happens. Most people fighting one against other without any valid motive. It's only a 64.6 acting out. Reptile brains react so before the question what will happen now?

One possible answer can be a tranquilizing IT GOES TO BEGIN NEWLY, THE CYCLE WILL CONTINUE.

Another possible answer is something scaring: IT COULD HAVE AN ACCIDENTAL ESCAPE FROM THE LOOP, AND WE SHOULD BE EJECTED IN THE EMPTY SPACE, say, the total chaos. Only the idea of this possibility is terrific for the reptile brain that, of course, lacks of wings.

AND ALL WE HAVE A REPTILE BRAIN! All we have our own Mr. Hyde.

Sometimes I believe that the advice of 64.6 is BEFORE TO CROSS THE BIG STREAM YOU CAN CELEBRATE IT IN ADVANCE, BUT NOT GOING TOO FAR BECAUSE YOU CAN GET LOST YOURSELF.

And PRIDE is worst than liquor for getting people drunken.

All the best,

Charly
 
Last edited:

pantherpanther

visitor
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
762
Reaction score
1
It does indeed sound tantalizing. That perfect symmetry moment must have given you the chills - in a profound way. That seems to be the beauty of the I Ching in that by it's very nature, it lends itself to infinte interpretations with direct symbology / imagery as it is imo, multi-dimensional at source. I'd would love to hear more about the archaelogical aspect...How does this connect with other historical changes going on at the time? Examples?

Do you have any ideas as to the origin of this "simpler system"? I find that fascinating as I think intuitively this HAS to be a natural consequence of such a downflow process which, like all processes that are "soul-infused" or "Divine" to use romantic terms, inevitably and naturally reach a state that are at this material level a mere reflection of their original state, where there is complexity as baggage rather than being indicative of the inherent simplicity....I think I'm making sense lol.



I'm personally drifting more and more to an abstract "artistic" interpretation of each hex via abstraction / iconography. Nothing to do with a new workable divinatory process (I'm not that clever) just something to connect to at a more elemental / level in order to feel it. Art is my bag and I hope to do it justice that way. The I Ching essence can be translated very easily I think in this way. (Similar to Crop circle transference perhaps?)

But I also very much look forward to hearing more about the "Sparhawk System." No more shyness now :D :cool:

Topal

I agree that the meaning that Luis has glimpsed through his work and is synthesizing from study of a wide range of physical and textual materials may offer new insight into an underlying mathematics that relates the symbols and texts of different historical periods and assist in his original scholarly interpretation. Which might be a long work. I remember the two European professors who studied Zoroaster, and of course never published - as many professors didn't in the old days - until the end of their lives. Their opuses gave very different translations of the texts and interpretations of the figure of Zoroaster. I am sure Luis doesn't work in the subjective way they did, although it amazing what great and comprehensive work
some of the old scholars produced in Oriental studies compared to the contemporary ones.

Your relating to the I Ching through sense and feeling is interesting, too. For myself, the universal cosmological ideas permeate and are living in the I Ching, as I think they were for Wang Bi whose commentaries are at the same time a meditative practice or exercise - not merely philosophy or theory.
I recall being taken stealthily to see a statue of Kwan Yin at Yale by a friend. I was quite unprepared . It took me out of time and played a movie spanning aeons of time , pulsing with a feeling of impartial compassion. The laws at work. The makers of that statue knew how to consciously place a whole teaching in it and of course an energy. Other conscious works of art have that quality, as Russian icons, Persian carpets and pottery, Lohans, sacred architecture and dance etc. They all can take one to the same Silence. But you can't own the Silence and don't try to go there.
 
Last edited:

fkegan

visitor
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
2,052
Reaction score
19
Thanks Frank. I'll save this information.

Hi Luis,

I notice that posts made here on Clarity are immediately indexed into Google, my suggestion for celebrity is already the first entry on Google Search. That means you need to only put a name for your system (I would suggest using yijing rather than I Ching for privacy) and you will be indexed into Google Search which is better than being published by a small press. No one could steal it from you at all with a top listing on Google Search and no publisher would take the risk of promoting any other work that could not supply a clear primacy in the field.

You are free to post without fear of theft or piracy. The days when someone could take a nice suggestion and run away with it have been eliminated by the power of the Google Search! Congratulations--you win.

Frank
 

Tohpol

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
3,566
Reaction score
92
Damn. I could have sworn I posted a congratulatory post to Rosada.

Well, here it is then: *POP* FZZZZzzzzzz. Congratulations Rosada on a wonderful thread and keeping it all together for so long. It's been a huge help.

What next indeed.....

Topal :hug:
 

themulberrytree

visitor
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
49
Reaction score
1
tumblr_nieba8W70P1tbghqao1_1280.jpg


Fox in the Reeds, Ohara Koson, ca. 1930

A very apt depiction of the fox preparing to cross the great water.
 
S

sooo

Guest
I have never started a poem yet whose end I knew. Writing a poem is discovering.
-Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963)
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top