Are we really over? A series of castings in deep dark times seeking reunion

[JJ_Yichings]

Hi everyone. I'm new to Clarity and this is my first post ever here. I've only been using the iChing for the last few weeks ever since my partner of the last (almost) six years left me a month ago- rather unexpectedly and in a very abrupt manner. It's left me devastated and since he came to collect his things, which happened literally 24 hours within him announcing that he was ending the relationship and spending the night (now a month) at his brother's, we haven't spoken.
Correction: We hadn't touched base at all until I decided I needed to break the silence because it was starting to feel like I would be waiting forever for him to do so (and we have things to sort out whether he likes it or not, even if he deems that it is over over..). So I reached out to him this past Tuesday to request a meeting, which we have since arranged for tomorrow.

It took a lot of casting and asking Yi about our relationship to build up to me saying "Enough time out now. Let's talk". Now this isn't exactly the first time someone decides to abandon me and so suddenly (I really know how to pick 'em)... so I wouldn't exactly call myself the "I'm going to go running after this person!" type right after they'd done the largest of all gestures of wanting to get the hell away from me and out of the relationship. I tried that the first time round and it did not end well (more than 13 years ago now, I'd say). There was really no turning back for that person or the second who did the same (a few years later). So I've learnt from my own personal past experiences that trying to 'un-end' things just does not work, especially when you had absolutely no choice in the matter to end things to begin with. It's pretty savage.

When you share a throne with your King but are suddenly blindsided by an assassination (it feels like we were sharing power of the realm amicably before he decided to kill me and take it all for himself. Or in this case.. he killed himself and left me to my throne, to dwell in the kingdom I built.. alone).

But the fact is that this time feels different. And for maturity's sake, you know I'm not supposed to be comparing this 'abandonment' to other ones because they are not the same people, and I'm hardly the same person I was then either.
But I'm not getting the verification I usually get from friends that he wasn't right for me or me for him, that we were too different (even though we are quite different and it is obvious that I am also further advanced in my own life in comparison to him, which many point out could be one of several underlying issues here, including our history of clashing over any marriage potential). But the point is that I never received dead on wisdom I chose to ignore that this was never going to work out- I just knew that as long as we both loved each other and were happy together, willing to do the work, communicated our needs to each other and lift each other up, we would stay together. I know that him leaving meant that he has been so unhappy, in several respects. He just never communicated and I was too blind to see, but my coaxing in recent times (as I'd felt and noticed he was off) finally got the truth out it seems. And here we are.

I appreciate that this space is only meant for one reading at a time, but I'd like to share several castings I have made in the few weeks since. With no expectation of anything from anyone.. obviously no one's obliged to dive into any let alone all these casts, though be my guest if you are so inclined! If you wish to comment over only one aspect of- that is fine by me. Any and all thoughts are welcome and appreciated..

HERE IT COMES

When it all began about a month ago now, I asked- "What is happening.." (not really finding any words at this point): 37.2.3 > 61
"My relationship with X and what there is to do about it.." (still not quite finding my words): 56.2.5 > 44

A day or so later, I asked: "What will come of mine and X's relationship in the coming weeks?": 10.1 > 6
and "What is next for us?" : 46.1 > 32
(Bear in mind that I am also trying to learn how to best ask Yi questions here. So this is also going hand in hand with my own explorations and curiosities on whether I'm going to get consistent answers or randomness)

Yet again a day or so later, I asked, "What is the potential for X and I getting back together again in the near future?" : 25.5 > 21

Desperate for answers but not sure how to get them and scared at the idea of being the one that "goes after the man" when I was holding on to this conviction that he should really be the one that talks to me, I asked a series of questions around what difference it would make if I wait for him to communicate (44.1.3.4 > 61) or if I initiate conversation (57.1.2 > 37) which was a rather eerily similar response to when I asked if I should speak with someone else who is in the same house at the moment about X to get a clue on the 'vibe'- got 57.2 > 53. I actually did reach out to that person, but got met with a "I think you should talk to him. Better to discuss things with him." and no further give/take from them after that. Felt quite disheartened at that response as she didn't say much else either, but now think that was a fair enough thing to say anyway, I guess..

I then noticed a few days later that he had stopped sharing his Google Maps location with me- his bubble wasn't appearing anymore. Yes, we were sharing each other's locations.. it served us well when we needed it. I panicked and asked Yi:
"What meaning should I take from the fact that he's stopped sharing his geo-location with me?" (38.3.4.6 > 11)

I then asked later that evening- "How much desire is there, from both our sides, to get back together again and resume our relationship, if we work to improve things?" Got 17 unchanged.

Sinking into deep despair, I asked "Please tell me if my relationship with X will recover?" : 19.3.4 > 34
sort of confirming that "hey, you ought to do something about it. Approach. If you don't take action, nothing's happening at all, so why don't you find out for yourself?".

Still haven't messaged him at this point but in a very dark state one evening, asked "Please tell me what sort of relationship X and I are destined to have together, if any?": 8.5.6 > 23 which suffice it to say really freaked me out because it just implied "you were together, he never really wanted to commit it seems, and now he's removed himself from the situation. Deal with it". I followed up and asked "Please elaborate on what this means for him and I?" (you know, state of disbelief): 62.5 > 33.

Inching closer at talking to him, still scared/anxious, I asked Yi "What benefit is there in speaking with X about things?": 48.3 > 29

More recently, I have asked:
"What can be done to reconcile the relationship, please?": 60.2.5 > 24
and, in thinking that I had some sort of a right to ask again (not sure where I read to consult an oracle again and find out what offering to make-- probably from one fo the earlier casts), Yi got angry when I asked "What offering can I make to fix the relationship so that we may come back together in love?": 57.3.5 > 4

And after finally scheduling to meet (he seemed very open to this and was rather apologetic that he had not reached out because he couldn't find the words and that he's sorry it's taken this long to talk) and now anticipating the conversation, I asked Yi: "What should I bear in mind for Saturday's conversation" > 35 unchanging.
"What should I avoid doing mid conversation": 21.2.4 > 41

Take your pick, folks. I bet you did not see this one coming.

With sincerity and appreciation,
JJ

 

[rosada]

Random thoughts…

8.Seeking Union. I’ve come to see hex 8 as emphasizing that individuals unite with others for specific purposes with line 6 indicating that when the purpose has been fulfilled people then separate. Thus for your question about what sort of relationship you and he are destined to have I see 8.5.6-23 as saying you came together for a time, 8.5, that time has now passed, 8.6, and thus you now 23. Split Apart. Similar to your interpretation but maybe not as harsh. Think of the I Ching as a way for you to speak to your future wiser self who only wants the best for you!

Benefit in speaking with X about things? 48.3 - 29. You may get some comfort from being able to tell him how things are for you but it may not make any difference with his decision.

What can be done to reconcile the relationship? 60.2.5 - 24. I think you are being advised to recognize your friend does not want to reconnect as lovers and by graciously acknowledging the affair is over you actually create conditions where people can at least be friendly. In other words, putting 60. Limits around the romance and 24. Returning to being separate individuals clears the stage for possible futures but the first step seems to be to set him free.

I don’t think 57.3.5 > 4 is the I Ching being “mad” at you, It’s simply saying the best thing you can do right now is stop all the questions because more questions aren’t going to give you any more clarity. You will only learn what you are wanting to know through 4. Real Life Experience.

For Saturday 35. Progress could be advising you to go to the meeting looking really good and confident and remember your purpose is to simply straighten out any remaining details you two might need to clear up - no secret agenda.

Avoid 21.2.4 - 41. These lines describe biting through obstacles but the result is Decrease. So maybe avoid trying to assign blame as to what went wrong or dig too deeply into what the various issues were.

Let us know what happens! Meanwhile I’ve started a thread over in Open Space dedicated to manifesting soul mates!!!
Rosada

 

[JJ_Yichings]

Rosada, thank you for taking a stab at this with me . At first, when I read your comment around 60.2.5 - 24, I got upset, but I also remembered that he said the same thing when he left... but I just didn't believe it- that and many of the other things that were said, including that I wasn't loved anymore.
While 8.5.6 - 23 speaks very accurately to what did happen, I believe that was Yi saying it as it is/was in the moment or in the course of this past month as that is exactly what happened.

Now, it was the clarification question that I had asked about 8.5.6 that ended up giving me some sort of inkling (asides from my own gut intuition) that this wasn't a true end, but rather a large bump in the road, which may well trigger an awful end (but that would depend on a person's own motivations or lack thereof) as there were a number of interpretations that alluded to the clarification answer (62.5 - 33) being about finding one's 'soulmate', but not being ready or not having everything that is needed for the time for it to blossom to full potential... i.e.. one or both people still have to work on themselves seriously before a proper commitment to the other can be healthy.

So I had taken a less depressing interpretation of 60.2.5 to mean "with the right limitations or boundaries in place, there is hope and potential for a return, but you need to seize the moment because this window of opportunity to hash out the frustrations, is not going to be open too long"... and that was true.. because I felt the longer I left it without a conversation, the more bitter we both would have become not ever knowing if anything was salvageable. I also knew that it was going to be much harder for him to break the silence (that was confirmed) so I had to be the one to act...which was also confirmed in a cast I did that told me to approach (19).

We met yesterday. I did not know what to expect. Of course I went with 35 uc in mind. Holding on to this notion of 'progress' was comforting... I kept telling myself that no matter what the outcome of the conversation, I was going to say my part without biting through too harshly (21.2.4), bare all on the table to make sure that he knew I was sincere in my approach, that I wasn't angry at him (of course hurt, upset and confused) but there is no blame... what's happened has happened, we all do things that we think is right at the time (to get away from something else that is really bothering us) and those decisions aren't always the right ones to make in the long run though they may seem it at the time. So can we get past this, return to our true selves (as we had 'lost' ourselves as individuals) and most importantly: Do you want to get through this together, or apart?

Hours of talking... meeting for coffee turned into getting caught in the rain and sheltering under a tree with no where to go and nothing to do except keep talking**, which escalated to lunch soon as we felt we could brave the rain, and then drinks.. with tears, laughter, and what I believe is the start of reconciliation.

We will be- unless he has changed his mind again in the last 10 hours- be giving things another shot and taking it slow, one step at a time, even if we don't know where we'll end up (one of the 'limitations' in place is making peace with not having too much of an imposed future vision of where we are heading... and just setting up smaller goals and milestones for us to each achieve independently so that we can shed away stagnation that was causing frustration, while being stronger together).
** this was interesting because the morning of, I knew it was going to rain and that I'd selected an open area. I'd also planned to cycle to our meeting point because of train strikes. So I asked Yi "Given rain is coming, is the location I have selected still a good place to meet or should I suggest somewhere else or even postpone?". I got a very striking "The place is appropriate" (61.5).

 

[rosada]

What a beautiful life story you are creating here!

Thinking about how hexagram 8, Union, must inevitably change to 8.6 Dis-union, and thus on to hexagram 9, The Restraining Power of the Small, the hexagram describing what happens after we disconnect from a previous connection, how there is a cleansing, 9.6, literally rain! And you and your friend got to manifest this experience of a cleansing rain together! Wow! Now of course the next trick is how to proceed so one doesn’t fall back into old patterns. I think 10.1 - about what’s ahead for you two in the coming weeks - is pointing to you creating a new alignment. From what you’ve told us I’m seeing a pattern of your friend being a bit lethargic (not sure that’s the right word) about reaching out to you. Maybe a need to be aware of this being a possible problem. Like you reached out to him this time and it was perfect but now it seems to me he’s got to call you next or the relationship slips from an equal partners dynamic and becomes a mother/child thing.

 

[Emy Paris]

Hi everyone. I'm new to Clarity and this is my first post ever here. I've only been using the iChing for the last few weeks ever since my partner of the last (almost) six years left me a month ago- rather unexpectedly and in a very abrupt manner. It's left me devastated and since he came to collect his things, which happened literally 24 hours within him announcing that he was ending the relationship and spending the night (now a month) at his brother's, we haven't spoken.
Correction: We hadn't touched base at all until I decided I needed to break the silence because it was starting to feel like I would be waiting forever for him to do so (and we have things to sort out whether he likes it or not, even if he deems that it is over over..). So I reached out to him this past Tuesday to request a meeting, which we have since arranged for tomorrow.

It took a lot of casting and asking Yi about our relationship to build up to me saying "Enough time out now. Let's talk". Now this isn't exactly the first time someone decides to abandon me and so suddenly (I really know how to pick 'em)... so I wouldn't exactly call myself the "I'm going to go running after this person!" type right after they'd done the largest of all gestures of wanting to get the hell away from me and out of the relationship. I tried that the first time round and it did not end well (more than 13 years ago now, I'd say). There was really no turning back for that person or the second who did the same (a few years later). So I've learnt from my own personal past experiences that trying to 'un-end' things just does not work, especially when you had absolutely no choice in the matter to end things to begin with. It's pretty savage.

When you share a throne with your King but are suddenly blindsided by an assassination (it feels like we were sharing power of the realm amicably before he decided to kill me and take it all for himself. Or in this case.. he killed himself and left me to my throne, to dwell in the kingdom I built.. alone).

But the fact is that this time feels different. And for maturity's sake, you know I'm not supposed to be comparing this 'abandonment' to other ones because they are not the same people, and I'm hardly the same person I was then either.
But I'm not getting the verification I usually get from friends that he wasn't right for me or me for him, that we were too different (even though we are quite different and it is obvious that I am also further advanced in my own life in comparison to him, which many point out could be one of several underlying issues here, including our history of clashing over any marriage potential). But the point is that I never received dead on wisdom I chose to ignore that this was never going to work out- I just knew that as long as we both loved each other and were happy together, willing to do the work, communicated our needs to each other and lift each other up, we would stay together. I know that him leaving meant that he has been so unhappy, in several respects. He just never communicated and I was too blind to see, but my coaxing in recent times (as I'd felt and noticed he was off) finally got the truth out it seems. And here we are.

I appreciate that this space is only meant for one reading at a time, but I'd like to share several castings I have made in the few weeks since. With no expectation of anything from anyone.. obviously no one's obliged to dive into any let alone all these casts, though be my guest if you are so inclined! If you wish to comment over only one aspect of- that is fine by me. Any and all thoughts are welcome and appreciated..

HERE IT COMES

When it all began about a month ago now, I asked- "What is happening.." (not really finding any words at this point): 37.2.3 > 61
"My relationship with X and what there is to do about it.." (still not quite finding my words): 56.2.5 > 44

A day or so later, I asked: "What will come of mine and X's relationship in the coming weeks?": 10.1 > 6
and "What is next for us?" : 46.1 > 32
(Bear in mind that I am also trying to learn how to best ask Yi questions here. So this is also going hand in hand with my own explorations and curiosities on whether I'm going to get consistent answers or randomness)

Yet again a day or so later, I asked, "What is the potential for X and I getting back together again in the near future?" : 25.5 > 21

Desperate for answers but not sure how to get them and scared at the idea of being the one that "goes after the man" when I was holding on to this conviction that he should really be the one that talks to me, I asked a series of questions around what difference it would make if I wait for him to communicate (44.1.3.4 > 61) or if I initiate conversation (57.1.2 > 37) which was a rather eerily similar response to when I asked if I should speak with someone else who is in the same house at the moment about X to get a clue on the 'vibe'- got 57.2 > 53. I actually did reach out to that person, but got met with a "I think you should talk to him. Better to discuss things with him." and no further give/take from them after that. Felt quite disheartened at that response as she didn't say much else either, but now think that was a fair enough thing to say anyway, I guess..

I then noticed a few days later that he had stopped sharing his Google Maps location with me- his bubble wasn't appearing anymore. Yes, we were sharing each other's locations.. it served us well when we needed it. I panicked and asked Yi:
"What meaning should I take from the fact that he's stopped sharing his geo-location with me?" (38.3.4.6 > 11)

I then asked later that evening- "How much desire is there, from both our sides, to get back together again and resume our relationship, if we work to improve things?" Got 17 unchanged.

Sinking into deep despair, I asked "Please tell me if my relationship with X will recover?" : 19.3.4 > 34
sort of confirming that "hey, you ought to do something about it. Approach. If you don't take action, nothing's happening at all, so why don't you find out for yourself?".

Still haven't messaged him at this point but in a very dark state one evening, asked "Please tell me what sort of relationship X and I are destined to have together, if any?": 8.5.6 > 23 which suffice it to say really freaked me out because it just implied "you were together, he never really wanted to commit it seems, and now he's removed himself from the situation. Deal with it". I followed up and asked "Please elaborate on what this means for him and I?" (you know, state of disbelief): 62.5 > 33.

Inching closer at talking to him, still scared/anxious, I asked Yi "What benefit is there in speaking with X about things?": 48.3 > 29

More recently, I have asked:
"What can be done to reconcile the relationship, please?": 60.2.5 > 24
and, in thinking that I had some sort of a right to ask again (not sure where I read to consult an oracle again and find out what offering to make-- probably from one fo the earlier casts), Yi got angry when I asked "What offering can I make to fix the relationship so that we may come back together in love?": 57.3.5 > 4

And after finally scheduling to meet (he seemed very open to this and was rather apologetic that he had not reached out because he couldn't find the words and that he's sorry it's taken this long to talk) and now anticipating the conversation, I asked Yi: "What should I bear in mind for Saturday's conversation" > 35 unchanging.
"What should I avoid doing mid conversation": 21.2.4 > 41

Take your pick, folks. I bet you did not see this one coming.

With sincerity and appreciation,
JJ

Thanks for sharing this JJ, I learned alot from all the questions you asked. I have never tried asking so many questions -- interesting way of speaking with the YI, thanks. Emily

 

[hilary]

Something that came to me when I was looking at your 60.2.5 reading for the Well Gathering - line 2,
‘Not going out of the gate from the courtyard.
Pitfall.’
- can point to the importance of getting out of your own box and your own way of thinking, and into the other person's world. We all come from different family backgrounds, and in an intimate relationship this can feel uncannily like coming from different planets; you need to 'leave home' mentally before you can really explore the relationship possibilities and find your own shared 'measures'. Hexagram 24 in the background shows the need to balance this with coming back to yourself - going out and coming in.

 

[JJ_Yichings]

What a beautiful life story you are creating here!

Thinking about how hexagram 8, Union, must inevitably change to 8.6 Dis-union, and thus on to hexagram 9, The Restraining Power of the Small, the hexagram describing what happens after we disconnect from a previous connection, how there is a cleansing, 9.6, literally rain! And you and your friend got to manifest this experience of a cleansing rain together! Wow! Now of course the next trick is how to proceed so one doesn’t fall back into old patterns. I think 10.1 - about what’s ahead for you two in the coming weeks - is pointing to you creating a new alignment. From what you’ve told us I’m seeing a pattern of your friend being a bit lethargic (not sure that’s the right word) about reaching out to you. Maybe a need to be aware of this being a possible problem. Like you reached out to him this time and it was perfect but now it seems to me he’s got to call you next or the relationship slips from an equal partners dynamic and becomes a mother/child thing.

Hi Rosada. Wow! Thank you for describing the sequence of events... I never thought to do that. I guess something I have been wondering about the Book of Changes is-- Do things have to go in the order the book have them in? In a way, everyone's journey would be predictable if that were the case...
You are right about need to be careful that we don't fall back into old patterns (this is something that we have spoken extensively about since reconnecting...). It's not like we are going to pick up right where we left off (we had been living together all these years and don't know what it's like not to, but I guess he won't be moving back in straight away....). It's going to take a lot of work from both our sides, but I am committed to the process to finding a new alignment, so I hope that this is not all in vain. Something had to happen to jolt the both of us to 'strip away' (23) what isn't working though and I understand this now. It didn't have to happen in such a savage manner, but it is what it is.. I am slowly healing myself.

"Lethargic" may not be the best word as you said, but I understand what you mean, and you're not far off-- laziness, procrastination and avoiding conflict or confrontation combined with a lack of communication: These are all issues that he is very aware must be addressed as that is what brought on a significant amount of the problems we're now having to face.

 

[JJ_Yichings]

Something that came to me when I was looking at your 60.2.5 reading for the Well Gathering - line 2,
‘Not going out of the gate from the courtyard.
Pitfall.’
- can point to the importance of getting out of your own box and your own way of thinking, and into the other person's world. We all come from different family backgrounds, and in an intimate relationship this can feel uncannily like coming from different planets; you need to 'leave home' mentally before you can really explore the relationship possibilities and find your own shared 'measures'. Hexagram 24 in the background shows the need to balance this with coming back to yourself - going out and coming in.

Gosh, it's been such a complicated dynamic- not going to lie. This time has called for me to pay more attention to understanding his perspective more... I am trying to be more on the receptive side, to listen, learn and accept as opposed to drive, direct or advance (which is how things have been for the most part).

You can say it has been an intense merging of our beings with all the complexities of different backgrounds too. We were thrust into living together immediately, we have never known what it's like not to (long story). The imbalance that occurred along the way speaks to how we both started to lose ourselves in different ways. There is a need to return and refocus inwardly, to nourish and refuel as well as re-establish a definition of ourselves as individuals. To then reassess. Lots of "retrograde" actions. As it goes, all this has coincidentally occurred during a mighty Venus retrograde.

 

[JJ_Yichings]

Thanks for sharing this JJ, I learned alot from all the questions you asked. I have never tried asking so many questions -- interesting way of speaking with the YI, thanks. Emily

I appreciate that, but I'm not so sure it's the healthiest way of consulting Yi.. it did feel rather obsessive. This is literally the result of hours and hours of loud thoughts, pain and analysis over the span of a month. I saw Yi as a friend, helping me get through it all.. reading what the oracle had to say was a way of escaping without escaping. I figured 'if I can't stop thinking about what's happening, then let me do something that may help me figure out how to get through it'.

 

[JJ_Yichings]

Random thoughts…

8.Seeking Union. I’ve come to see hex 8 as emphasizing that individuals unite with others for specific purposes with line 6 indicating that when the purpose has been fulfilled people then separate. Thus for your question about what sort of relationship you and he are destined to have I see 8.5.6-23 as saying you came together for a time, 8.5, that time has now passed, 8.6, and thus you now 23. Split Apart. Similar to your interpretation but maybe not as harsh. Think of the I Ching as a way for you to speak to your future wiser self who only wants the best for you!

Benefit in speaking with X about things? 48.3 - 29. You may get some comfort from being able to tell him how things are for you but it may not make any difference with his decision.

What can be done to reconcile the relationship? 60.2.5 - 24. I think you are being advised to recognize your friend does not want to reconnect as lovers and by graciously acknowledging the affair is over you actually create conditions where people can at least be friendly. In other words, putting 60. Limits around the romance and 24. Returning to being separate individuals clears the stage for possible futures but the first step seems to be to set him free.

I don’t think 57.3.5 > 4 is the I Ching being “mad” at you, It’s simply saying the best thing you can do right now is stop all the questions because more questions aren’t going to give you any more clarity. You will only learn what you are wanting to know through 4. Real Life Experience.

For Saturday 35. Progress could be advising you to go to the meeting looking really good and confident and remember your purpose is to simply straighten out any remaining details you two might need to clear up - no secret agenda.

Avoid 21.2.4 - 41. These lines describe biting through obstacles but the result is Decrease. So maybe avoid trying to assign blame as to what went wrong or dig too deeply into what the various issues were.

Let us know what happens! Meanwhile I’ve started a thread over in Open Space dedicated to manifesting soul mates!!!
Rosada

You may have been right all along @rosada

A significant update to this situation: My relationship, despite its very short burst of temporary return and progress, abruptly ended in a very savage way a few weeks later. I'll spare you the details, but in any case, and in the spirit of adding to our knowledge of how castings play out, I thought to update those interested.

With love.