Bitter

[iams girl]

DWF! Wish I had more time to respond, but would like to add just a bit to your dear heartfelt thread...

I found some books once by Wayne Muller, "How, Then, Shall We Live?" and "Legacy of the Heart" that I love and still go over every once in awhile. Here's a few of his quotes about suffering (although he writes about much, much more) from I can't remember from which one, but keep on hand for reference...

"Ironically, perhaps, it is in those who have suffered, in their journeys of healing and courage, that I have perceived most clearly the miraculous, breathtaking resilience of the human spirit."

"Rather than simply invoke the tremendous grace that lives deep within us, we try to rebuild ourselves into someone who is not tainted by suffering. I would suggest that this is impossible. I would also suggest that it is not even desirable. For it ignores the fundamental potential for the discovery of beauty, strength, and grace in our life as it unfolds, just the way it is."

"When we move from seeing our particular suffering as “our” pain and begin to experience it simply as “the” pain – the pain of all creation…– then we move on from being separate and alone, and our suffering becomes a doorway into community with the family of the earth.”

“Every one of us is given some quantity of suffering; some are given more than others, some more violently, some more subtly. But the suffering we feel has never been ours alone; it is simply a fragment of the suffering given us all as children of flesh and spirit. The form of suffering may change from person to person, but the fact of our suffering is something we inevitably hold in common with all sentient beings."

"We become what we have cared for; our lives are shaped by what we love."

Love and sunny wishes, Iams

p.s. I know it doesn't change the way things are for you, but hopefully helps make them less meaningless and lonely somehow...

p.p.s. and I'm really old, almost double your age

 

[dancing white ferret]

About the kid in the picture, I don't know why this is his lot in life. I've wondered this myself before? Why so crappy a life for some? Where are his spirit guides? A lot of unknowns there. I don't think we will find an answer PG... He clearly is not getting his physical needs met, which stinks, but isn't this looking sideways too? To look at him and say, "Could be worse." It is actually this very thinking that prompted my question. Everyone says this, and I respond by looking at someone else and saying, "Well, yeah... Could be worse, but looks like it could be a lot better too." I don't know if that is really a negative... Kind of optimistic. I didn't know they were crappy people when I started looking... Dumb Dancing White Ferret! I think there is a double meaning here in the Yi's 58.5>54. Don't put faith in these disintegrating influences. Like the Yi is saying that is what these people have done, and warning me don't become like them, and as Trojan has said dump this train of thought:bows:... I like Ginnie's take on the crappy people, as well, and I think she may be on to something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancing white ferret
"Why are there crappy people that have so much more in life than me?" and got 58.5>54...

That means they are somewhat dangerous people who have ill-gotten gains. That is how Iread it.
-Ginnie

Thanks Ginnie:bows:

Anyway, I'm not going to delve into it... I don't even want to know anymore... I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who are getting what they want in life, that aren't crappy, too... I'm curious what they are doing right. I was just trying to glean some helpful info. And am not envious... I don't want exactly what they have... Much less actually in a material sense... So, I just feel a bit cheated. I do feel like I deserve a bit more. I don't like that whole, "Why should you have what you want" thinking. "Why shouldn't I?" I have the ability to obtain it. It's not like it's out of the realm of possibility... I'm a decent person. Would certainly spread the love... I don't think I am aiming too high... Sounds like a timing issue. You should have what you want too, PG... I think we are just going about it the wrong way. What do you all think I am hoping for in life anyway? Believe me, it's nothing fancy... It's feasible. And I feel like that is the experience I came here for. The Happy Wanderer thing is getting a little old... At least by myself. No one to wander with me... And no money to wander anywhere much fun... BTW, very perceptive Trojan, picking up on the Happy Wanderer thing... My very thinking when I picked the title.

As for this kid, of course I feel for him... I'm very empathetic and I am grateful for what I have. Doesn't make it my dream come true. Do you really think if Angelina adopted this kid he would never want anything but the bare essentials?... Angelina, if you are listening, this kid needs you and Brad.... I think eventually he would branch out, maybe hit some stumbling blocks, feel stagnation, want to kick off an acting career, have some fun, get drunk, go ride a roller coaster, break a few hearts, feel dissatisfied with relationships once in a while... who knows? Doesn't necessarily mean he's become some ingrate. Just means he has a good foundation to move on and have some fun... Some thinkers have even proposed that emotional and spiritual needs can trump physical needs... even intellectual needs can for some... Once your physical needs are met, what are you gonna do? Just sit around with a big smile on your face feeling grateful... No. You are going to go do something with your life and your health, right? Might want something else eventually just out of sheer boredom... So, I guess ya can't really make any direct comparisons with other people for the same reason ya can't compare apples and oranges. They are just too different.

People are weird. I can't figure 'em out. I've even heard of a concentration camp survivior who killed themself like 5 years after being rescued. Went thorugh an awful time to survive, and barely did, but made it out only to kill himself years later... Why go through all of that and then kill yourself? Certainly, most people would perceive his escape from certain death in a Nazi camp as a step up. I don't know... We would only be guessing the answer. You get my point... So, I don't think it is so much that it is wrong to "look sideways" as it is time consuming, as Trojan pointed out:bows:. Just can't get any definitive answers, and end up with a whole lot more questions apparently...

 

[precision grace]

ahh grasshopper, I never said you shouldn't have what you want, only that there is no point feeling entitled to it as it inevitably leads to kinds of disgruntlement you are presently experiencing when inevitably you don't have it (yet).

Answers are within, not without

 

[ginnie]

Willow and Holly

Have you ever tried the Bach Flower Remedies for times when things just are not going your way and the emotions have been affected? Above I posted about Willow and Holly being great re-balancers for bitterness.

Your lack of worldly success may be due to the fact that somehow you're going about things the wrong way, as you realize, since you said so yourself. Maybe there can be some kind of counseling for that? Two heads are better than one.

 

[dancing white ferret]

Thanks Ginnie:bows:

Yeah, I actually have a certification in Bach Flower Remedies... I took a 2 part course a couple of years ago. I have like 2 dozen of them, and I know I have the Holly and Willow in there. I think Holly sounds like a good call, and maybe some Star of Bethlehem. I've had good luck with them in the past, and I usually use a pendulum to figure out the right combo. Funny, it isn't always the one ya'd think that best suits you... Might be feeling kind of Hollyish, but it's really grown out of a fundamental boredom and Wild Rose will pop up or something like that... So, I usually do an energy test on them and double check with my pendulum. I'll combine up to 7 maybe even 9 sometimes, but try to keep it at a 3 combo max... Totally forgot about them.... still haven't unpacked them from the move. Good idea Ginnie...

 

[dancing white ferret]

Thanks Iams Girl Words of wisdom:bows:

DWF! Wish I had more time to respond, but would like to add just a bit to your dear heartfelt thread...

I found some books once by Wayne Muller, "How, Then, Shall We Live?" and "Legacy of the Heart" that I love and still go over every once in awhile. Here's a few of his quotes about suffering (although he writes about much, much more) from I can't remember from which one, but keep on hand for reference...

"Ironically, perhaps, it is in those who have suffered, in their journeys of healing and courage, that I have perceived most clearly the miraculous, breathtaking resilience of the human spirit."

"Rather than simply invoke the tremendous grace that lives deep within us, we try to rebuild ourselves into someone who is not tainted by suffering. I would suggest that this is impossible. I would also suggest that it is not even desirable. For it ignores the fundamental potential for the discovery of beauty, strength, and grace in our life as it unfolds, just the way it is."

"When we move from seeing our particular suffering as “our” pain and begin to experience it simply as “the” pain – the pain of all creation…– then we move on from being separate and alone, and our suffering becomes a doorway into community with the family of the earth.”

“Every one of us is given some quantity of suffering; some are given more than others, some more violently, some more subtly. But the suffering we feel has never been ours alone; it is simply a fragment of the suffering given us all as children of flesh and spirit. The form of suffering may change from person to person, but the fact of our suffering is something we inevitably hold in common with all sentient beings."

"We become what we have cared for; our lives are shaped by what we love."

Love and sunny wishes, Iams

p.s. I know it doesn't change the way things are for you, but hopefully helps make them less meaningless and lonely somehow...

p.p.s. and I'm really old, almost double your age
__________________
We were made to enjoy music, to enjoy beautiful sunsets, to enjoy looking at the billows of the sea and to be thrilled with a rose that is bedecked with dew…human beings are actually created for the transcendent, for the sublime, for the beautiful, for the truthful. ~Desmond Tutu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by iams girl; Yesterday at 01:56 AM.. Reason: Punctuation on book title

 

[dancing white ferret]

Thanks FOX777:bows:

Your post fascinated me, because it is so very close to the point I have reached, philosophically, spiritually, socially: My spirit was given ample nourishment by its guides for growth, but it led to intellectual growth only, while in life, all was a dead end.

I think your first hexagram is reaffirming that on the SPIRITUAL PLANE, you have received guidance, and you have evolved. As Wilhelm tells us in relation to H28:


Quote:
the superior man, when he stands alone, Is unconcerned, And if he has to renounce the world, He is undaunted.

Your interpretations seem on the mark, and I believe 58.5 is warning you of not allowing others' negativity or lack of response to negate your evolutionary joy, and also telling you that you have the discernment to step around "crappy people". Just my quick initial thoughts.

So, Fox777, you too huh... Nice to know I am not alone... There is a lot of truth in your take on this. And I have received a lot of guidance, spiritually and otherwise... I really can't complain. My spirit guides are really quite good... I think there have just been some unexpected interferences... My ex popped up in my life right around the time I was given a heads up that a great person with potential to be a great companion might be entering my life. I thought it was him... I thought "Wow, nice pick. The spirit guides got it right... Papi chulo..." Exceptionally good looking. And, just my type... Big guy with a really good thick build. Dark complexion with dark eyes and hair... Good personality too, and seemed more interested in me when he found out what a nerd I was... What was I supposed to think? But, his looks should have tipped me off that something was wrong. And, boy, was I wrong... Not that someone can't be both great inside and out, but what are the chances of finding someone who is exactly what you want outside and in. Probably pretty slim I'm guessing...

Well, maybe you will find some guidance in this thread as well... I have to say, I am feeling a bit better about my lot in life. I was complaining in my head to my spirit guides that I never see such and such anymore, and I hadn't talked to them in so long, I didn't want to call them out of the blue... And guess who I saw on the bus like 2 days later! That girl I used to hang with. And we're going out next week... I think I was partly just worried that I'm losing my ability to manifest what I want in my life. Usually once I decide something I will start to see some progress...

But I honestly think a lot of the problem is that I'm just too darn nice. I'm nice to everyone, smiling at everyone, floating around on planet DWF, and it just opens up the door for the crappy people... then when the crappy people are crappy it irritates me more because I was smiling and being all friendly when they were crappy... But, I guess they are just being themselves. From now on I think I will be more reserved about my good nature, and reserve it more for people who have a good track record of not being so pooish...

So great advice from Fox777 (Fox Triple 7, very cool name)... So, it's like I have been stepping in interpersonal poo, and should have the discernment to step around crappy people, just like with real crap, step around it... Lesson learned:bag:

 

[dancing white ferret]

ahh grasshopper, I never said you shouldn't have what you want, only that there is no point feeling entitled to it as it inevitably leads to kinds of disgruntlement you are presently experiencing when inevitably you don't have it (yet).

Answers are within, not without

Thanks Precision Grace

Well that sounds more like you... I was gonna say, "Who are you and what did you do with Precision Grace?" But I missed your meaning... I keep wanting to send this kid a hamburger... I love to eat, and I hate knowing there are people who don't have food. Besides the hunger, eating is fun... one of my favorite things to do, and I do it well. Have been known in the distant past to polish off whole gallons of ice cream in a couple of days... Loads of peanut butter and chocolate mixed with melted marshmallow. Very good on the ice cream... I have unintenitionally provided entertainment at many meals. My capacity to cram enormous amounts of food into my small body was nothing short of miraculous. In my early 20's, the look on my friends and family's faces at the end of a meal with me would have you thinking I pulled a rabbit out of my hat or something.... Tada! Yes, I really ate all that... More than your boyfriend twice my size.... I was a runner, so I'd build quite an appetite. Oh well, those days are gone. Maybe you can find out who he is PG... We can send him some beef jerky or something... Some chocolate...

 

[ginnie]

But I honestly think a lot of the problem is that I'm just too darn nice. I'm nice to everyone, smiling at everyone, floating around on planet DWF, and it just opens up the door for the crappy people... then when the crappy people are crappy it irritates me more because I was smiling and being all friendly when they were crappy...

Opposites attract. Nice, open-hearted people attract crappy people and I guess it takes a learning curve for a naturally friendly person such as yourself to know how and when to step around the crap.

I bet if you take Holly (and whatever others you think best) for a couple of days you'll be coming back here and saying how great you feel. It would be wonderful if you could do that, as an experiment and also to let more people learn about how effective the Bach Flower Remedies can be. It would be a shame if you didn't use what you already know to help yourself.

 

[Trojina]

Quote:

Anyway, I'm not going to delve into it... I don't even want to know anymore... I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who are getting what they want in life, that aren't crappy, too... I'm curious what they are doing right. I was just trying to glean some helpful info. And am not envious... I don't want exactly what they have... Much less actually in a material sense... So, I just feel a bit cheated. I do feel like I deserve a bit more. I don't like that whole, "Why should you have what you want" thinking. "Why shouldn't I?" I have the ability to obtain it. It's not like it's out of the realm of possibility... I'm a decent person. Would certainly spread the love... I don't think I am aiming too high... Sounds like a timing issue. You should have what you want too, PG... I think we are just going about it the wrong way. What do you all think I am hoping for in life anyway? Believe me, it's nothing fancy... It's feasible. And I feel like that is the experience I came here for.
:...

Don't think anyone here said that...

of course you should aim for what you want. When I was referring to Caroline Myss she never said "you shouldn't have what you want" she said when these heartbreaking things happen to us as humans like serious illness, family deaths, terrible accidents .....when we think "why me !? " one may as well ask well "why not me ?". No one is exempt from these kinds of things...its a part of being human. This makes it no easier to bear...I think she was just trying to say the idea that these things don't happen to good people is a fanatsy. We are apparently meant to surrender it all, to hand it over. I read a great book by Stephen Levine about the dying and how sometime she saw them so illuminated and at peace even when in pain becaUse they had handed over their suffering.

Hmm well to me thats still theory but I liked the idea





BUT HANG ON A MINUTE

How do you know you are so nice anyway ??? I mean look at that name you called me in PM. Would a nice person do that ? (DWF said "thanks crabcakes" )

Do we actually know how nice we are ? I don't. Not sure anyone really knows...till the hour of death...when our souls get weighed and we either gotta go left or right



What if.......the ferrett were not so nice afterall :demon:

 

[dancing white ferret]

I believe it was Crabcake, singular... What's wrong with Crabcake... means sweet crab... Cake is sweet... Don't go getting your crab claws all bunched up now. I wasn't implying you were dinner or anything like that. What kind of ferret eats crab cakes anyway? Some rich fancy ferret probably... Can't afford crab cakes...

Left or right? Soul weighing? Do you really believe in the whole heaven hell thing... Are you evangelist Christian or are you just making a point? I've got my fingers crossed for reincarnation... I don't even like pass fail tests... I like to think God uses the A, B, C, D, F system, and a curve and lots of extra credit. But, if it's like that, what I'm posting about is probably the least of my worries.

Tis true... I do actually have a really bad side... Maybe I'll be going left... Is that the way to fire and brimstone? Or is it right... Don't want to make a wrong turn there... Maybe their is a special direction for weird people like me, like southwest or just keep heading straight. Reminds me of that Death Cab for Cutie song "I Will Follow You Into The Dark"...

"If heaven and hell decide that they both are satisfied, illuminate the nos on their vacancy signs..."

I'm sure you know it...

"If there's no one beside you when your soul embarks... Then I will follow you into the dark"

So, could just end up floating through space, and all I can hope for is that some other weirdo will be with me. That's gotta hurt though. Heaven and hell both just shaking their head like, "No. Not in a million years. And never in that shirt."

The dying illuminated and at peace? Could be what you said... Could be opiates and-or endorphins too. But I like the first thought better, too:bows:

 

[precision grace]

it's not you DWF, it's them. That's what I'm always telling myself too

I must admit, I keep thinking I have the same problem. I sort of think I am really nice too (didn't use to think that about myself) but somehow don't have people falling over themselves to be nice to me. Which is weird because back when I was being a right self absorbed stroppy cow, people were much nicer to me and paid me more attention.

Of course, you grow out of it and realise they were just being nice in self defense


PS, just for clarification; people are being super nice to me all the time and I am very grateful to them and hope I am being equally nice to them. point was how it always seems that things where better in retrospect, but that's an illusion. (I hate it when I have to explain myself. Even Sheldon Cooper doesn't have to do it this much. No, I am not a narcissist, why would you ask that?)

PPS. I don't think my sense of humour will ever find the correct audience.

 

[dancing white ferret]

LOL, I know, same here... What's the deal with that? It's not self defense, it's about control and power. You pursue someone when your nice to them, when you don't care or move away, they will pursue you (under the right circumstances)... Even though you are just being nice, doing this unwittingly puts you in beta position in the other persons' eyes. They tghink they have something you want or something over you... Might just be subconscious, but that is how it is apparently. I still find myself doing this, and think to myself "I was just being nice ". People are weird, but seems like something we all do...

 

[precision grace]

People are monkeys. Just today I was reading an article over lunch about Knights Templar in a journal about Military History of England (as you do) and the Crusades which were really quite savage and brutal take overs of land and assets with a hefty dose of ethnic cleansing thrown into the mix.

Fast forward a thousand years and all that still goes on probably no less than it did back then it just might be dressed up differently.

Most people probably don't realise that the Mayan and Inca civilisations they admire and try and emulate in their New Age hobbies were heavily reliant on human sacrifice; from new born babies to young virgins to whoever was around but wasn't a priest.

People = monkeys with alien brain technology implants - it's bound to be malfunctioning often

 

[foxx777]

Thanks FOX777:bows:



So, Fox777, you too huh... Nice to know I am not alone... There is a lot of truth in your take on this. And I have received a lot of guidance, spiritually and otherwise... I really can't complain. My spirit guides are really quite good... I think there have just been some unexpected interferences... My ex popped up in my life right around the time I was given a heads up that a great person with potential to be a great companion might be entering my life. I thought it was him... I thought "Wow, nice pick. The spirit guides got it right... Papi chulo..." Exceptionally good looking. And, just my type... Big guy with a really good thick build. Dark complexion with dark eyes and hair... Good personality too, and seemed more interested in me when he found out what a nerd I was... What was I supposed to think? But, his looks should have tipped me off that something was wrong. And, boy, was I wrong... Not that someone can't be both great inside and out, but what are the chances of finding someone who is exactly what you want outside and in. Probably pretty slim I'm guessing...

Well, maybe you will find some guidance in this thread as well... I have to say, I am feeling a bit better about my lot in life. I was complaining in my head to my spirit guides that I never see such and such anymore, and I hadn't talked to them in so long, I didn't want to call them out of the blue... And guess who I saw on the bus like 2 days later! That girl I used to hang with. And we're going out next week... I think I was partly just worried that I'm losing my ability to manifest what I want in my life. Usually once I decide something I will start to see some progress...

But I honestly think a lot of the problem is that I'm just too darn nice. I'm nice to everyone, smiling at everyone, floating around on planet DWF, and it just opens up the door for the crappy people... then when the crappy people are crappy it irritates me more because I was smiling and being all friendly when they were crappy... But, I guess they are just being themselves. From now on I think I will be more reserved about my good nature, and reserve it more for people who have a good track record of not being so pooish...

So great advice from Fox777 (Fox Triple 7, very cool name)... So, it's like I have been stepping in interpersonal poo, and should have the discernment to step around crappy people, just like with real crap, step around it... Lesson learned:bag:

DWF: Thanks for this nice response.

I have changed the way I act toward people, because I found, over the years, that all too often my candor, my sincerity, and my natural generosity, were making people think I was a fool.

I STILL think it is THEIR problem,(actually, for a long time I blamed myself, but no more, after realizing what opportunists and backstabbers these people were, which I know I am not guilty of)--- and that they misinterpreted something healthy and robust, for something very weak and sickly. BUT.......we cannot and should not waste our energy "casting pearls at swine".

I have now learned to "read the signs" when I am opening myself up to someone, and they begin to act as though I am someone to step on. I beat a hasty retreat now, as I have learned the hard way that it is going to get a great deal worse.

I do believe that these others are following some sort of egoistic, competitive protocol which I am not, and that they are the poorer for misinterpreting me. I would imagine this is likely true in your case as well, and I think your plan to be more reserved is a wise one. Bravo to you for it. Cheers. (oh, btw , took the name from the artist, "John Foxx", and 777 is a completion number. )

 

[ginnie]

Have you noticed that a section of this thread right above this post is missing? I let Hilary know.

 

[hilary]

Have you noticed that a section of this thread right above this post is missing? I let Hilary know.

This is mystifying. Does anyone else have memories of posts that used to be here, and aren't? DWF?

 

[dancing white ferret]

I haven't noticed a post missing... That is weird! Anyway, I think Fox777 really had some words of wisdom here with "don't cast pearls at swine.". Which is essentially what I've been doing... Will give a more detailed update later, but thanks for all your thoughtful and wise responses. Has been a great support during a very rough time:bows: