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Blog post: Advice for relationship readings

hilary

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Most people seem to get started with the Yijing by asking about a relationship. It’s a good way to start: it’s present, immediate and something you care about – when you ask these questions, you’re really asking them.

It’s also potentially tricky, that mix of getting started with overwhelming emotion. Easy to get tangled up in doing reading after reading that isn’t really helping you at all, without even noticing. And this is a shame, because readings can and will help: Yi offers clearer insight and more complete understanding (of the other person and of yourself), things that provide a stronger foundation for that relationship you’re building.

(Note: I’m writing this article assuming you’re asking about a man, because writing s/he all the way through feels silly. It’s all just as true if you’re asking about a woman.)

So, how to start?

First, start with one reading. Read everything it says, together with your question, and allow yourself time to understand. Sleep on it. Ask for help if you need it. Think about what difference this answer makes – how you’ll respond to it, whether there are things you’ll change.

Yes, it is very tempting to ask questions in dozens so you can get all the answers at once, clarify everything and leave no shred of doubt. Problem… it doesn’t work. You bounce about between your dozen or two dozen answers and don’t have the time or focus to take any of them in, let alone respond to them.

(Tip: there are online readings, like the one at this site, that make it quick and easy to ask. They do give genuine readings; Yi isn’t fussy. Nonetheless, for your first few readings, I strongly recommend you get pen and paper and three coins and cast your own hexagram. It’ll give you a much better understanding of what you’re looking at and how it fits together, and the time it takes makes it much easier not to ask your next 23 questions.)

Starting with one reading means you start with one question. It’s never hard to think of one (or thirty) in these situations, but some lead to much more helpful readings than others.

Not-so-helpful questions

Basically, any question designed to make things emotionally safe for you before you take any risks (or any more risks) counts as not-so-helpful, because it’s trying to achieve the impossible.

I can think of a couple of ‘making it safe first’ questions…

There’s,
‘What will happen?’ and ‘Is this meant to be?’

What will happen depends on what you choose and what he chooses. ‘What will happen if I…?’ is a better start to a question, because it recognises your choice. But he still chooses freely, also, and will not be tied down by an oracle. ‘What difference will it make if I…?’ is a more lucid kind of question here.

And there’s,
‘How does he feel about me?’
with its friends, ‘Why is he doing this? What did he mean by that? And why isn’t he calling me?’

This is a radically unhelpful question in a whole lot of ways.

Does he want you to know the answer to this? And if he doesn’t, is it at all reasonable to expect Yi to help you to spy on his inner life?

If you can in fact spy on his inner life, and he’s confused and his feelings keep changing, all this is going to show in the reading. It is not going to be easy to understand. Also, it is not necessarily going to be true tomorrow.

It is hugely, terrifyingly hard to interpret these readings objectively. It’s excruciatingly easy to respond instead by building a fantasy relationship-castle out of a string of readings, with each question based on a misinterpretation of the reading before. What you end up with has nothing to do with the reality – and yet it is strangely addictive. It’s always easier to ask another question – fitting the curtains and carpets in your imaginary castle – rather than actually going and talking to the man himself.

And on that subject – substituting readings for communication does not make for a good relationship. If you’re in a relationship with someone and can’t ask what they mean or how they feel, then a better question to ask might be ‘What can I do to help us to communicate better?’

Come to that… substituting obsessive speculation about what he feels for becoming conscious of your own present desires and choices? “If I knew what he felt, I’d know what I can safely let myself feel”? Also doesn’t tend to work. If only.

And finally, it’s surprisingly hard to ask a clear, unambiguous question about this. For instance, is ‘how does he feel about me?’ meant to give you a picture of his emotional state? Or of how you appear when seen through his eyes? This is not something you want to be trying to work out after casting the reading, believe me.

Questions that help

A possible first question (remembering that you’re starting with just the one) might be,
‘What kind of relationship could we create here? What’s the potential?

It’s true that this is perilously close to asking, ‘What will happen?’ The difference is the awareness behind the question. You know that the relationship is something you and he will create; you know there is no stone tablet with your relationship future carved into it, ready for Yi to download for you. Still, some relationships are just never likely to get far, some people are not what they seem; Yi can help you to avoid disasters. Also, spending time with one of these responses gives you a chance to discover how you feel about that potential.

A useful question in an ongoing relationship – asking how he feels.

?​

Yes, I do remember the first half of this post. But these readings can actually be helpful when you’ve already asked questions about yourself, and when you’re in an existing relationship (by which I mean one that any outside observer would recognise as a relationship!) and having problems. Yi can help you to see how things look to him, so that you can listen better when you talk.

‘What do I need to understand about…?’
or
‘How does this look to him?’
can be helpful. You do still need to be absolutely clear about what you’re asking – to see him through Yi-eyes, or to see through his eyes. Is either possible? Will you understand what you see anyway? There are no guarantees – but you can at least avoid the hideous muddle of not knowing what you’re interpreting.

If you’re not sure whether it’s right to ask, you might start with a question like, ‘What difference would it make to talk with Yi about x?’

Anything that’s about you, here and now

These are the ones we forget to ask, and – of course – *they’re the ones that can make most difference.

Try,
‘What’s going on with me here?’ (for instance ‘what’s up with how I react when he does that again?’) This is good to know.

Or try, as I was saying, ‘What difference would it make if I…?’
(But only if you are willing and ready to do that thing now, and not just castle-building! The reality of your intentions does reflect in the reading.)

Possibly the most helpful question to start with is just to ask for advice.
‘What’s the best attitude to take to this relationship?’
‘How to be with this?’

You may even find that’s all you really wanted to know.
 

hilary

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OK, by popular demand. Also moved it to where it's most likely to be relevant.

Now we need someone to write a 140 character summary, because it's far too long.
 

Trojina

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I don't think it should be shortened....lengthened maybe...not shortened.

I think as its conversational its easier to be drawn into it, so more likley to be digested. If its more short and to the point it would be more formal and boring IMO. I think the advice is more relevant to women who ask all the relationship questions and women don't especially go for minimalism in the wording dept IMO..... besides there isn't anything extraneous in it as it is ...IMO
 
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cristal

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Most people seem to get started with the Yijing by asking about a relationship. It’s a good way to start: it’s present, immediate and something you care about – when you ask these questions, you’re really asking them.

It’s also potentially tricky, that mix of getting started with overwhelming emotion. Easy to get tangled up in doing reading after reading that isn’t really helping you at all, without even noticing. And this is a shame, because readings can and will help: Yi offers clearer insight and more complete understanding (of the other person and of yourself), things that provide a stronger foundation for that relationship you’re building.

(Note: I’m writing this article assuming you’re asking about a man, because writing s/he all the way through feels silly. It’s all just as true if you’re asking about a woman.)

So, how to start?

First, start with one reading. Read everything it says, together with your question, and allow yourself time to understand. Sleep on it. Ask for help if you need it. Think about what difference this answer makes – how you’ll respond to it, whether there are things you’ll change.

Yes, it is very tempting to ask questions in dozens so you can get all the answers at once, clarify everything and leave no shred of doubt. Problem… it doesn’t work. You bounce about between your dozen or two dozen answers and don’t have the time or focus to take any of them in, let alone respond to them.

(Tip: there are online readings, like the one at this site, that make it quick and easy to ask. They do give genuine readings; Yi isn’t fussy. Nonetheless, for your first few readings, I strongly recommend you get pen and paper and three coins and cast your own hexagram. It’ll give you a much better understanding of what you’re looking at and how it fits together, and the time it takes makes it much easier not to ask your next 23 questions.)

Starting with one reading means you start with one question. It’s never hard to think of one (or thirty) in these situations, but some lead to much more helpful readings than others.

Not-so-helpful questions

Basically, any question designed to make things emotionally safe for you before you take any risks (or any more risks) counts as not-so-helpful, because it’s trying to achieve the impossible.

I can think of a couple of ‘making it safe first’ questions…

There’s,
‘What will happen?’ and ‘Is this meant to be?’

What will happen depends on what you choose and what he chooses. ‘What will happen if I…?’ is a better start to a question, because it recognises your choice. But he still chooses freely, also, and will not be tied down by an oracle. ‘What difference will it make if I…?’ is a more lucid kind of question here.

And there’s,
‘How does he feel about me?’
with its friends, ‘Why is he doing this? What did he mean by that? And why isn’t he calling me?’

This is a radically unhelpful question in a whole lot of ways.

Does he want you to know the answer to this? And if he doesn’t, is it at all reasonable to expect Yi to help you to spy on his inner life?

If you can in fact spy on his inner life, and he’s confused and his feelings keep changing, all this is going to show in the reading. It is not going to be easy to understand. Also, it is not necessarily going to be true tomorrow.

It is hugely, terrifyingly hard to interpret these readings objectively. It’s excruciatingly easy to respond instead by building a fantasy relationship-castle out of a string of readings, with each question based on a misinterpretation of the reading before. What you end up with has nothing to do with the reality – and yet it is strangely addictive. It’s always easier to ask another question – fitting the curtains and carpets in your imaginary castle – rather than actually going and talking to the man himself.

And on that subject – substituting readings for communication does not make for a good relationship. If you’re in a relationship with someone and can’t ask what they mean or how they feel, then a better question to ask might be ‘What can I do to help us to communicate better?’

Come to that… substituting obsessive speculation about what he feels for becoming conscious of your own present desires and choices? “If I knew what he felt, I’d know what I can safely let myself feel”? Also doesn’t tend to work. If only.

And finally, it’s surprisingly hard to ask a clear, unambiguous question about this. For instance, is ‘how does he feel about me?’ meant to give you a picture of his emotional state? Or of how you appear when seen through his eyes? This is not something you want to be trying to work out after casting the reading, believe me.

Questions that help

A possible first question (remembering that you’re starting with just the one) might be,
‘What kind of relationship could we create here? What’s the potential?

It’s true that this is perilously close to asking, ‘What will happen?’ The difference is the awareness behind the question. You know that the relationship is something you and he will create; you know there is no stone tablet with your relationship future carved into it, ready for Yi to download for you. Still, some relationships are just never likely to get far, some people are not what they seem; Yi can help you to avoid disasters. Also, spending time with one of these responses gives you a chance to discover how you feel about that potential.

A useful question in an ongoing relationship – asking how he feels.

?​

Yes, I do remember the first half of this post. But these readings can actually be helpful when you’ve already asked questions about yourself, and when you’re in an existing relationship (by which I mean one that any outside observer would recognise as a relationship!) and having problems. Yi can help you to see how things look to him, so that you can listen better when you talk.

‘What do I need to understand about…?’
or
‘How does this look to him?’
can be helpful. You do still need to be absolutely clear about what you’re asking – to see him through Yi-eyes, or to see through his eyes. Is either possible? Will you understand what you see anyway? There are no guarantees – but you can at least avoid the hideous muddle of not knowing what you’re interpreting.

If you’re not sure whether it’s right to ask, you might start with a question like, ‘What difference would it make to talk with Yi about x?’

Anything that’s about you, here and now

These are the ones we forget to ask, and – of course – *they’re the ones that can make most difference.

Try,
‘What’s going on with me here?’ (for instance ‘what’s up with how I react when he does that again?’) This is good to know.

Or try, as I was saying, ‘What difference would it make if I…?’
(But only if you are willing and ready to do that thing now, and not just castle-building! The reality of your intentions does reflect in the reading.)

Possibly the most helpful question to start with is just to ask for advice.
‘What’s the best attitude to take to this relationship?’
‘How to be with this?’

You may even find that’s all you really wanted to know.

I like your post., In fact I am one of the person lost between what to ask or not ask.
But I must say that asking so many times, it has helped me quite bit to get more clear about myself, the emotions I am living. It is not only with the interpretations given to me and found by myself, but it is also with kind of awareness about my own feelings and direction that comes to me when I am reading what I write/ask.

It has helped me to clear the fog of emotions and it has been very helpful with stopping me from contacting him, because instead of running to contact him, I find a way to indirectly ask him and then whilst I do this I get more clear of my next step.

Asking many questions, it has also made me learn more, because I go around the Internet reading different interpretations and trying to understand what fit more with my situation.

But also, I believe as you said, that is better to be very clear which are the better questions to ask, like in a normal conversation more clear we are, more we understand each other.
I am going to ask now, this what you wrote:
How does this look to him?’
can be helpful. You do still need to be absolutely clear about what you’re asking – to see him through Yi-eyes, or to see through his eyes. Is either possible? Will you understand what you see anyway? There are no guarantees – but you can at least avoid the hideous muddle of not knowing what you’re interpreting.

Thank you! :):)
 

hilary

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Glad you like the article, Cristal :)

I think I understand what you're saying - time spent talking with the Yi instead of with him helps to clarify your own feelings, if only because you see what questions you're asking. Makes sense. Only thing is... I definitely didn't write this to encourage you to talk to the oracle instead of to him. Rather the opposite.

Have you asked that question I suggested about improving communication?
 

cristal

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Glad you like the article, Cristal :)

I think I understand what you're saying - time spent talking with the Yi instead of with him helps to clarify your own feelings, if only because you see what questions you're asking. Makes sense. Only thing is... I definitely didn't write this to encourage you to talk to the oracle instead of to him. Rather the opposite.

Have you asked that question I suggested about improving communication?
NO!! I missed that question!!! And it is really important..because it is the m,ost important to understand each other. He has huge issues with communicating, and I dont have clue how to arrive to him when he is withdrawing that can take ages...

I will ask tonight at my midnight, I like that time. Thank you..so many questions I asked and I did not asked the main!

:brickwall:
 

Trojina

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I like your post., In fact I am one of the person lost between what to ask or not ask.
But I must say that asking so many times, it has helped me quite bit to get more clear about myself, the emotions I am living. It is not only with the interpretations given to me and found by myself, but it is also with kind of awareness about my own feelings and direction that comes to me when I am reading what I write/ask.

It has helped me to clear the fog of emotions and it has been very helpful with stopping me from contacting him, because instead of running to contact him, I find a way to indirectly ask him and then whilst I do this I get more clear of my next step.
Asking many questions, it has also made me learn more, because I go around the Internet reading different interpretations and trying to understand what fit more with my situation.


Thank you! :):)
Asking Yi is not a way to 'indirectly ask him' Cristal. The I Ching cannot speak his mind for him. I felt that was some of what Hilary was trying to say. If you think the I Ching speaks his mind how will you ever know unless he confirms himself.

If you are continually asking the I Ching what hes thinking and planning and feeling then you are getting ever further away from him...so Yi isn't making the relationship more alive...just more alive in your mind...but not in reality.


The point is contacting him is ultimately the only true way to know how he feels and if he doesn't choose to divulge it for any reason then you won't know. Somewhere I feel you missed some of the point of Hilarys post ?

If you cannot communicate with him then it is a mistake to think you can communicate with him via the I Ching. If you think you can you might lead yourself down some very misleading paths.
 
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cristal

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Asking Yi is not a way to 'indirectly ask him' Cristal. The I Ching cannot speak his mind for him. I felt that was some of what Hilary was trying to say. If you think the I Ching speaks his mind how will you ever know unless he confirms himself.

If you are continually asking the I Ching what hes thinking and planning and feeling then you are getting ever further away from him...so Yi isn't making the relationship more alive...just more alive in your mind...but not in reality.


The point is contacting him is ultimately the only true way to know how he feels and if he doesn't choose to divulge it for any reason then you won't know. Somewhere I feel you missed the point of Hilarys post ?

If you cannot communicate with him then it is a mistake to think you can communicate with him via the I Ching. If you think you can you might lead yourself down some very misleading paths
What I meant with "using the reading for communicating with him" , it was that reading the Iching and making questions it helps me to find answers about my situation with him. And yes, somehow when we ask a question that regards two people by sure the reading must include an interpretation of the thoughts of the other person. Because by example if I ask what would be the consequences of maybe calling him and asking to meet me? Any answer of the IChing must be considering what he is thinking, what is in his heart, otherwise in what its the answer based?We are two included in the reading, every time I read.
I must say I got a bit confused with what you write her, because somehow I think the Iching also answers to me about him. When I ask by example how convenient this situation is for me?, the reading must include the other person, because the positive or negative of the consequences it depends on a connection, this means on him and me.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

I feel I am gaining with asking many times, like I wrote before. I feel much awareness of myself of my own feelings, thanks to reading my own questions. I feel surrendering, even if not yet hundred per cent, its too early, but I know I am stepping forward.
I want to learn to make better questions, like Hillary Wrote , I never have asked what can I do to improve my communication with him, that is the main issue we have.

And the answer, must give me an insight on him also, because otherwise would not it be incorrect?

I am not trying to make the relationship more alive with reading, I wish I could!. I am trying to become myself more alive after this impasse I had with him. But the Iching should guide me how to become stronger, how to live the moment and what steps to take to improve the situation. When I ask this things, my relationship with myself become more alive. I contacted him enough times, he is the withdrawing type, erecting walls of silence that are always difficult for me to live , he keeps anger inside, I am the opposite. I know I can't contact him anymore till he comes back and reading and asking show me the way to wait, with him the communication it is very hard.

Till now, I have asked I think. What can happen if..? I think I asked too many times (daily) give me an insight into my relationship and I also asked what is the future of my relationship and yes I need to change questions. I asked then what I can do to erase him from my heart,,:eek: and lately I started asking about other people I have met.

But mainly what I meant was that reading and interpreting ease my wait and help me to learn about myself. And then I learn about him also because I have to think in everything what have happened between us and I then can see him more clearly.
 

Trojina

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well yes I guess if you ask a question such as "what is the conseqeunce if I call him" then to a degree Yi must take his reactions into account or it could not answer you...but personally I think it would be better to call him and actually receive the reality of the consequence from him because if you never called him because you believe Yi tells you not to then you would never actually really know what the consequence would have been anyway

It sounds, like many others, you are trying to manage the relationship as if it were a complex game and you need the right move with Yis help to succeed. This really does not ever work, you will not be able to navigate the relationship at a distance without direct communication from him IMO.

If you say asking often has helped you emotionally I believe you and of course you must ask whatever questions you think will help you....all thats being said i think is that asking about how someone feels about you when you aren't in communication can lead to all kinds of misplaced assumptions which can actually lead to more heartbreak in the end if one has drifted a bit far from base.

In the main I think Yi advises us about us...but women here constantly use it as a way to know what their love interests think..(.we had a moderation thread about it, I don't know if you saw it http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=12456 but thats what gave rise to the sticky Hilary wrote..).using it that way does have particular pitfalls so its unfortunate the vast majority of females only ever ask these questions here...hence the need for the sticky
 

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I'm starting to think that maybe there's something necessary about the process - first asking how he feels and what he'd do and so on, then gradually coming back to yourself. It certainly doesn't look from outside as though the 'how does he feel, how would he react...?' questions are helping anyone or anything, but maybe it's just part of an evolution. Maybe there isn't a route to 'How to be with this?' that doesn't go through 'What if I called him?'.

Maybe I'm making the same mistake here I've made in the past talking to individual clients and encouraging them to ask more open or empowering questions. I once had someone agree absolutely that this was the better question to ask, so I went ahead and delivered a nice in-depth lucid reading... and then she said plaintively that all she really wanted to know was whether it would happen. All of that nice in-depth lucid reading had flown right past her, because it wasn't answering the question she was really asking. Maybe it's not so easy to change the question you're really asking 'on demand'?
 

Trojina

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I'm starting to think that maybe there's something necessary about the process - first asking how he feels and what he'd do and so on, then gradually coming back to yourself. It certainly doesn't look from outside as though the 'how does he feel, how would he react...?' questions are helping anyone or anything, but maybe it's just part of an evolution. Maybe there isn't a route to 'How to be with this?' that doesn't go through 'What if I called him?'.
Steve Marshall said virtually the same thing years ago...like it was a process everyone kind of goes through with Yi, the obsessive questioning etc in the end one does return to self yes

Maybe I'm making the same mistake here I've made in the past talking to individual clients and encouraging them to ask more open or empowering questions. I once had someone agree absolutely that this was the better question to ask, so I went ahead and delivered a nice in-depth lucid reading... and then she said plaintively that all she really wanted to know was whether it would happen. All of that nice in-depth lucid reading had flown right past her, because it wasn't answering the question she was really asking. Maybe it's not so easy to change the question you're really asking 'on demand'?

The 'problem' is not that people go through the process, because I think it probably is part of a common process, been there myself...but you cannot really invite others into your world of obsessive questioning, its yours, its internal, by and large your process takes it time, can be painful. People try to ease that by posting here and wanting everyone else to join in their process, not cast light on readings really but to participate in their process around obsessive relationship questions.

Many people don't want to do that, get tired of being invited to participate in that, knowing actually full well it is a process and the person will have to do it on their own . Thats why many answers suggest the person returns to themselves.

Perhaps asking others to participate in this process actaully holds it up. When the pace gets frantic, when a person is frantically posting a whole load of threads all about the current obsession then maybe the onus is on them to think about how much they want to try to pass their stuff off for everyone else to deal with or whether they could actually help themselves more by living in their own process first


The fact is anyway other people don't keep responding when someone is publically going through this process in a mega frantic way....as its very tiring and possibly pointless....becasue they have to do it themselves.
 
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cristal

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Steve Marshall said virtually the same thing years ago...like it was a process everyone kind of goes through with Yi, the obsessive questioning etc in the end one does return to self yes

It is for me that way, and observing others post I do believe it is a normal process. I guess most of us need others to support us in certain difficult life processes. I believe aloneness it is essential but sometimes especially when you are at the critic moment of confronting something, a mourning, any kind of lost, talking loudly about it can abolutely help to healing-going back to yourself-.
I cant talk about others
. But I guess that every mourning its a process of..first an intese feeling of lost, where we feel alone and empty, we have lost something, a moment of fear where we need support, independently of how strong we are inside we all need support.The Iching then provides that support, because as Isaid just formulating the question and reading interpretations many times, it greatly help to clear the fog caused by the pain of the lost and then you are able to follow the steps indicated. Clearing the fog it means you are getting back your balance and then the number of readings will become less.
In regard to the number of reading,you call it obsessive, but what its the normal number of readings, I think it depnds on the person. I have read Iching book authours where they say that we should read it as often as we feel to read it, because reading continuously you get more awareness of your feelings, then you return home faster (what I believe it is happening to me)).


The 'problem' is not that people go through the process, because I think it probably is part of a common process, been there myself...but you cannot really invite others into your world of obsessive questioning, its yours, its internal, by and large your process takes it time, can be painful. People try to ease that by posting here and wanting everyone else to join in their process, not cast light on readings really but to participate in their process around obsessive relationship questions.

I am not sure about what you say here its right. We can invite others to the process, an invitation is a gentle request, nobody is obliged to give their time and interpretation. If the Talk section here its open and free for everybody to post and ask , isnt this a talk when who feels to give of his/her time , it is welcomed to give it?.

In my case many times my questions have not received an answer, and I go myself and try to read as much as I can about t the hexagram and understand myself from the book and from inside myself.

In my personal case, I am a very extroverse person,very much in touch with my feelings and myself. But trying to learn the Iching , I found the Iching clarity and this possibility to share my readings here, as a way to learn more about the Iching and also to learn more about my situation from others perspective of the reading. I took it as a "friend", whom not knowing who I am, would probably give me more light that a close friend that maybe is afraid to hurt me letting me see the truth or that is clouded herself.
I don't like the word obsessive, I think we can call something obsessive when the time goes and there is not need of an answer anymore but the unlimited questions continue, then it is an obsession, not before (I think).

To lose somebody can be so terrible painful that can becomes an insistent dark and painful thought which a strong person by survival instinct try to solve as fast as it can, if the person does not try to get rid of that feeling/thoughts , that will remain and then will be obsessive.


Many people don't want to do that, get tired of being invited to participate in that, knowing actually full well it is a process and the person will have to do it on their own . Thats why many answers suggest the person returns to themselves.

I think you have the right of not participating, as the person that ask has the right to ask, at least it is forbidden here to ask many times. I do believe the process it is personal and internal, but I also believe not everybody goes to the processes of life, silve them in a similar way, thats why they are different therapies, including group therapies. If the person tends to live her life by herself, sometimes listening to many different people it can help a person to understand lot about herself, if the person instead is used to live in within the noise of others, then that person would probably benefit more from solitudine.But In general talking about our processes of finding balance, helps eveybody, instead of internalizing and maybe avoiding to understand it because fear of feeling the pain that it produces it.

I see the Iching as a tool to help that process, a therapy of self understanding and understanding of the situation.
It is very hard to interpret your own reading when your thoughts are so clouded, and then it is excellent when others come for help.


Perhaps asking others to participate in this process actaully holds it up. When the pace gets frantic, when a person is frantically posting a whole load of threads all about the current obsession then maybe the onus is on them to think about how much they want to try to pass their stuff off for everyone else to deal with or whether they could actually help themselves more by living in their own process first.
The fact is anyway other people don't keep responding when someone is publically going through this process in a mega frantic way....as its very tiring and possibly pointless....becasue they have to do it themselves.


I think differently, I wish I would have time to maybe help with my interpretation many people that post their questions and that are obviously under stress or pain ,it does not making me tired but willing to help. In this moment I need it, in another moment I will not need it anymore and another person will need me. It is like life works I think, the wheel of life.

Again talking just in my name, I am much better in a less days that I thought it would take me to get better. The process for me has been fastened by reading and reading interpretations. It has made me aware directly and indirectly ,of what In need to do to regain my inner peace. And I think this is what the Iching reading is meant for to make us aware of what we are living inside, and how to get our balance back.
 

cristal

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I'm starting to think that maybe there's something necessary about the process - first asking how he feels and what he'd do and so on, then gradually coming back to yourself. It certainly doesn't look from outside as though the 'how does he feel, how would he react...?' questions are helping anyone or anything, but maybe it's just part of an evolution. Maybe there isn't a route to 'How to be with this?' that doesn't go through 'What if I called him?'.

I think like I wrote to Trojan, that it is when we are in the mist of the problem when we more need the help of the Iching.
In my case, I came with a broken relationship where there is a certain difficult situation of communication because emotional issues my friend have to confront. It isnt the first time that happen this to me with him, he gets trapped in an emotional wall of silence, because the issues he confronts inside of him. He needs an infinite time as space to think. I wish he would have the Iching...and he would come here to at least be able to communicate with others instead to get lost in anger and whatever else he gets lost!!
Then every situation for every person it is different. Then I guess the process it is different. I did not know this way of writing here, would have helped me, but it is helping me. I tend to solve everything alone, and it is harder and takes longer time. Instead asking questions here and reading my own and other interpretations have helped me to gain clarity faster.
Still I need to learn more, and I think I will asking more and reading more
.


Maybe I'm making the same mistake here I've made in the past talking to individual clients and encouraging them to ask more open or empowering questions. I once had someone agree absolutely that this was the better question to ask, so I went ahead and delivered a nice in-depth lucid reading... and then she said plaintively that all she really wanted to know was whether it would happen. All of that nice in-depth lucid reading had flown right past her, because it wasn't answering the question she was really asking. Maybe it's not so easy to change the question you're really asking 'on demand'?
I am not sure I understood what you wrote here, but I guess that maybe in the depth of every person, we all would like to know the future..so if holding to a thought or not. And instead what we are meant to know it is the steps towards the best future.
 

sasha

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And when you read the original post, and nod... hmmmm yes true, true... aknowleding
Read it again just in case.

I seem to forget this even though it seems obvious :):)
 

jfas

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What I meant with "using the reading for communicating with him" , it was that reading the Iching and making questions it helps me to find answers about my situation with him. And yes, somehow when we ask a question that regards two people by sure the reading must include an interpretation of the thoughts of the other person. Because by example if I ask what would be the consequences of maybe calling him and asking to meet me? Any answer of the IChing must be considering what he is thinking, what is in his heart, otherwise in what its the answer based?We are two included in the reading, every time I read. ...

But mainly what I meant was that reading and interpreting ease my wait and help me to learn about myself. And then I learn about him also because I have to think in everything what have happened between us and I then can see him more clearly.
I think I know what you mean here. The way I see it for myself, especially with personal relationships, is having a chance to understand my own thoughts on the issue, and sometimes even make my mistakes "on paper" so to speak, before or in lieu of making them with the person.

I've commented about the relationship questions here before mainly because I think a lot of posters aren't taking the time to consider the answer(s) they've received first before posting here, and sometimes simply casting multiple readings on essentially the same question. (Which I do too, at times, but in the privacy of my own personal hell ;) )
 

cristal

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I think I know what you mean here. The way I see it for myself, especially with personal relationships, is having a chance to understand my own thoughts on the issue, and sometimes even make my mistakes "on paper" so to speak, before or in lieu of making them with the person.

Yes, you expressed right what it is for me, I've problems expressing myself correctly because I write quite bit and English its not my native language. But Yes, when we are confronting with any kind of pain or challenge, from money to relationships, to death, sickness, our thoughts aren't so clear like normal and then I think it is instinctive to try to get clear. We can get clear with aloneness, but also expressing our thoughts it is an incredible thought to understand it. It gives undoubtly self -awareness and yes, then help because before the step it is always good to be self aware of what you are really intended to do.

I've commented about the relationship questions here before mainly because I think a lot of posters aren't taking the time to consider the answer(s) they've received first before posting here, and sometimes simply casting multiple readings on essentially the same question. (Which I do too, at times, but in the privacy of my own personal hell ;) )

I think the main problem, is being clouded and then because ofthat, wanting to ask many times, but even bigger problem is to dont be clear about what its the real question we want to ask.
I am a bohemia and and love my aloneness, thenI tend to never ever ask anybody, about my personal problems. But doing it, I found out that not only gave me a bigger understanding of what the Iching can do for me, when and how to ask, how I influence the answer with my own mind and how I misunderstand or get blinded to the interpretation if my mind is clouded, but also the understanding of how important it is to openly express what is happening emotionally to you, it makes the healing process faster.
The healing process is just self awareness, we become so much in touch with what we are feeling that we are able then to take steps to change it because at least we are masoquists we dont want to stay there.
I still cant see the why not to express it here, at least it is forbidden, because the reason ( I think) we read the Iching, it is because we are experiencing something, we are unable to solve with our own means, we want a guide. And we can get a guide and wake up the little light inside only searching for it.

It is very hard to properly interpret our own readings when we are cloudy, because (I think) we want to find out what we want or we fear to find something and then just find out our own fear that does not need to correspond to reality and probably that confusion push the person to ask more, because if the person would be clear would not be asking neither once, I think.

And even if the person would have the means to ask for a professional reading , the moment the person is clouded, it would be hard to understand even the professional reading I think.

Then I am for writing everything all time we need it, at least it is forbidden, I guess it does not work for everybody same, but because we are all different. For me it is a personal discovery that took me from my normal working my challenges in aloneness to exposing it here, it worked nicely, I am still there, but not in the middle of a thunder/hurrican like a week ago, but instead more clear about everything and asking about different things, or more clear questions.
However I am still not clear about what are the right questions, and need to investigate more about it:)
 

hilary

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Just catching up on posts on this thread after a few days of running in panicked circles about the site transfer. Cristal - thank you for your thoughtful posts. As far as I can see, the only 'right question' is going to be the one you are truly asking - even if it takes a bit of digging in your own psyche to find out what that question is.
 
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great blog post!

This is a great blog post! The topic is so relevant!

My own take on this topic is that in interpreting answers, regardless of the topic of the question, the biggest challenge is avoiding subjective bias to interpret the Yi as saying what one hopes or expects, regardless of what comes up.

But in the case of relationships, that problem is magnified severalfold, while, as Hilary pointed out, relationship questions tend to be the first types of questions people ask. I think this is a catch-22 leading to wrong answers and stunted development in interpretation skills. To use Yi terminology: "Pitfall." This may be the reason why so many people out there just give up and decide that divination with the Yi cannot be taken seriously.

In the realm of relationships, whether people consult the Yi or not, they often jump to false conclusions based on wishful thinking, fueled by the power of fantasy. This cuts equally across genders.

Further, in the realm of romantic feelings, phenomena such as what the other person is feeling are far less tangible and measurable than phenomena such as the weather. We can see the rain and measure the temperature, but people often are confused about even their own feelings, on top of trying to discern the feelings of others, and all of those things are invisible and hard to measure. Then add to that the psychological games people play in dating and relationships, and it becomes even more difficult.

Ideally, divination should help to cut through this natural elusiveness and confusion, and the biased viewpoints derived from the influence of strong attraction and potent fantasies, by bypassing the conscious biases when deriving the answer. However, it only works well if the person has the mental discipline to engage in detached objectivity when interpreting the answers... as if they were observing and interpreting the results of a scientific experiment.

In addition to the important point that Hilary made that divination should never be used as a substitute for communicating with the partner in the relationship, I think people should also avoid using it to substitute for consulting with friends. Sometimes a friend can come through with the most valuable insight that really makes all the difference. Friends often have a natural objectivity, and also bring their own separate set of experiences and wisdom to bear on the topic, which help the questioner see the situation from more angles and gain a fuller perspective, without the trouble of translating the input from ancient symbols and other cryptic aspects of divination.

As an added bonus, friends serve as a great buffer against loneliness and depression if things don't go the way one wishes with the object of affection, and through a good network of friends, one can meet more people and have more new prospects in the pipeline or in the funnel. Sometimes people get too obsessed with one prospect to the exclusion of all others, and that isn't healthy.

Spending hours in solitude on Yi divinations about a relationship while the object of affection is out socializing and meeting new people may not be a good idea. It's not that different from spending hours internet-stalking someone. A relationship in which one person is investing a lot more time and thought than the other is often destined to fail, or to be unhealthy and dysfunctional, regardless of how accurate one's Yi interpretations are.

In addition, socializing and communicating helps build the inner sensibilities of discernment such that one will have less confusion and less need to consult others or the Yi to understand situations. One will begin to understand situations more instinctively and have less need for consultations.

Finally, even interpretation of the Yi's answers to relationship questions should become better tuned when one is armed with greater depth of wisdom, knowledge and social experience. One has to have some level of depth and experience and complex knowledge to recognize and grasp depth and complexity when it is presented to them. Sometimes I find the Yi's answers seem simple on the surface but actually have multiple layers of depth and complexity, leading to a different conclusion than that which would be derived from a superficial or simplistic interpretation.

As for me, I'm...
Gettin Jingy with it :D
 
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hilary

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That's a good point about talking to friends. Friends aren't a great substitute for an oracle, but the reverse is certainly true as well.
 

dilson

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Relationship questions are as important as other issues that we need help about. The Yi and its wisdom bless us by taking some of our doubts out. If it is the right person with 'de"I also agree that it is very emotionally rewarding to have someone to talk to.We miss the warm human touch that we feel when somebody holds our hands and talks with us looking in our eyes.
There are so many things to learn in a lifetime! I´m glad God gives us time to do it bit by bit.
Thanks for opportunities like this space granted to communicate with other members of our community we grow.
Dilson from Brazil
 

amy luisa

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Casting the Hexagram personally

Hilary...thank you for this helpful post as i just asked a question now. But, i am still really unsure of how to use the coins - I went to my Chinese local market and actually bought 3 coins to use and even went on UTUBE to see how they are read. I am still unsure.

I always use your digital site and cast the question from there. i was told that these are not valid always. Computer generated questions are not good as they are not getting the actual "feeling" of the person asking the question.

but in all my past readings, and my castings, i have read and re-read. they are always, of course about my relationships, but ironically, they have all come to fruition.

i just casted one just now and it makes some sense to me, still, not sure, i am waiting for the others on the site to clarify with me the meaning.

i try to look up the answers on various sites online..i want clarity. i think the latest answer (Hex 30) is giving me or HIM the result.

i want to cast another one, using my coins, its just confusing.

Amy Luisa:bows:
 

Trojina

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I think you missed the point. In general people weren't suggesting you try to cast with coins because the online tool was ineffective but because having no concept of what changing lines were greatly obstructed your own understanding and often you were not even sure what answer you had got as you only saw changing lines as 'red' lines.

Lots of people I think suggested you learn what was meant by changing lines then at least you'd have some idea of how a primary hexagram morphed to the second one and what that meant so you'd begin to have some power to get an understanding of your reading.

We have linked to the Learn section here on how to cast coins loads of times Amy :rant: but I will find and link again ;)

but if it still makes no sense maybe the only way to do it is to get together in person with a friend and see if they can help ?
 

amy luisa

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Amore Trojan

gracias senora!

but i was also wanting to express my thoughts on this blog. I hope I did not offend you.
 

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