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hilary

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The moon almost full

almost full moon
Some of the Yi’s most interesting phrases come in threes. The advice not to chase what’s lost, for instance, or ‘not robbers, marital allies’. This is another of those: ‘the moon is almost full’.

‘Already rained, already come to rest.
Honour the power it carries.
The wife’s constancy brings danger,
The moon is almost full.
Noble one sets out to bring order – pitfall.’

Hexagram 9, line 6
‘King Yi marries off the maidens.
The first wife’s sleeves are not as fine as the younger sister’s.
The moon almost full, good fortune.’

Hexagram 54, line 5
‘The moon almost full,
A horse’s yoke-mate runs away.
No mistake.’

Hexagram 61, line 4

What’s the significance of an almost-full moon?

The moon over China​


I’ve taken a quick dive into early Chinese ideas about the moon. There was the lunar calendar, of course, but from all I’ve been able to find out, the phases of the moon had no particular astrological significance.

The moon and sun have poetic significance, though. In the Book of Songs, women who are unhappy in love call out to sun and moon, and a man compares his beloved’s beauty to the moon:

‘A moon rising white
Is the beauty of my lovely one.
Ah, the tenderness, the grace!
Heart’s pain consumes me.’

Song 143 from The Book of Songs

There’s also a woman who lives in the moon: Heng E, the beautiful wife of Yi the Archer, stole the elixir of immortality from him and fled to the moon. Yi is the hero who shot at the ten suns when they all came out at once and scorched the earth, so he and his wife are connected with sun and moon. Of our three Yijing lines, two mention wives, and the third a pair of horses.

Let’s look at them one at a time…

9.6​


Hexagram 9, Small Taming, starts with the frustration of dark clouds that bring no rain. But by line 6, the rain has finally come – which makes it perhaps a little odd that this line changes to Hexagram 5, Waiting. Yet it does seem to counsel patience:

‘Already rained, already come to rest.
Honour the power it carries.
The wife’s constancy brings danger,
The moon is almost full.
Noble one sets out to bring order – pitfall.’

Now it’s rained, the ground is fertile – the seeds will germinate and grow. (In the garden after rain you can almost hear them stirring and waking.) The ‘moon almost full’ is part of the same atmosphere: nights are getting brighter, energy is on the rise. This is no time for the noble one to set out to war, not least because he needs to stay home and farm.

Why does the wife’s constancy mean danger, though?

An easy solution to this is to revert to the ancient meaning of zhen, ‘constancy’, as ‘divination’. With the yin, moon energy on the rise, the wife’s divination might be especially accurate, and she prognosticates the disaster if the man sets out.

Still… if there were such a thing as ‘wife’s constancy’, what could it be? Constancy means knowing truth and holding to it, carrying something through. And the wife governs the inner space, is the home-maker. So in my 2010 book, I imagined this as dogged persistence in creating and securing your own space. The man setting out to bring order was simply the externalised, male version of the same impulse – and while the wife’s constancy might avoid the pitfall of trying for too much certainty, a military expedition surely wouldn’t.

Only it occurs to me now that the wife’s role is also to bear children. Could this line be saying she’s conceived? Honour the power she carries; the moon is almost full. He really should stay home. And this would make for a strong connection with the zhi gua 5, Waiting.

When the moon is full, it will be fully opposite the sun – they face one another. That creates a strong contrast between 9.6 and 9.3:

‘A cart losing its wheel spokes.
Husband and wife avert their eyes.’

With the moon almost full, this line’s on the verge of that perfect partnershp. Its rising energy has to do with relationship, turning towards one another and coming into alignment – a terrible time for him to turn his face away from the home and set out to war.

54.5​


An interesting fact about Hexagram 54: in the Guicang, another ancient hexagram oracle of which only fragments survive, it is still called ‘Marrying Maiden’, and says,

‘Heng E stole it [the elixir of immortality] to flee to the moon. When she was about to go, she had the stalks divined by milfoil by You Huang. You Huang prognosticated them and said: Auspicious. So soaring the returning maiden, alone about to travel westward. Meeting heaven’s dark void; do not tremble, do not fear. Afterwards there will be great prosperity.’
Edward Shaughnessy, Unearthing the Changes

(On arrival, Heng E was transformed into the striped toad, which makes you wonder about You Huang’s refund policy.)

So this hexagram and the moon have history.

Here’s its fifth line:

‘King Yi marries off the maidens.
The first wife’s sleeves are not as fine as the younger sister’s.
The moon almost full, good fortune.’

The younger sister’s finer sleeves are understood to represent her greater fertility: she would become the mother of Fa, the future King Wu. We might say her star is rising; Yi says her moon is waxing. Shang and Zhou are coming into partnership; the Lady of Shen is coming into her own; the Mandate of Heaven is coming a little closer to the Zhou people. The moon is almost facing the sun, but for now, all we have are subtle omens and the sense of future promise. It’s a moment to celebrate what is to come.

61.4​


Hexagram 61 is full of pairs and partnerships – the crane and its young in line 2, the counterpart in line 3, and in line 4 a pair of horses:

‘The moon almost full,
A horse’s mate runs away.
No mistake.’

Unlike the previous two lines, this one puts the waxing moon first – emphasising that the light is getting brighter, we’re almost there, on the cusp of alignment and perfect rapport.

And… one of the horses runs away and disappears. (The verb used means ‘flee’ and also ‘disappear, lose, die’.) This certainly seems like a disaster, especially at such a moment, but we’re reassured that it’s not a mistake. Why not?

Line theory has an answer: the fourth line is yin, a ‘pair’ with the other yin line at line 3, but runs away from that one to support the yang fifth line, like someone who follows a higher path. That’s persuasive, but I’d find it even more so if only it said the horse’s mate runs free, or ascends, or finds a new master, instead of just saying that it’s gone.

We’re at the threshold between trigrams, of course, so there’s certainly a sense that line 4 is pulling away from line 3 as the wind moves freely over the lake. This seems to me to have an opening effect. The waxing moon is a time for partnership, but both the vanished horse and the one left behind are open now to new pairings, as free to respond as the mare of Hexagram 2. There’s a great sense in this line of opening up to invite new experience, and maybe even a walk with tigers.

Summing up…​


The ‘moon almost full’ becomes a lot more resonant when I realise that it’s the moon almost perfectly opposite the sun, just coming into full relationship with it. The theme is one of rapport, partnership and alignment – in potential, almost there. A time of anticipation, a good time to turn towards one another – or, in Hexagram 61, towards some mysterious new energy out beyond what we know.

almost full moon
 

Gmulii

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Every month in the Chinese Lunar Calendar starts with the New Moon.
And since everything in there is a cycle, every part of the calendar has meaning, either as increasing or decreasing of branches/stems(that being Fire and Wood vs Water and Metal).

In Divination and other types of systems, people usually use the Solar Calendar. The only systems that are heavily imprinted on the Lunar I can think of are ZWDS and QMDJ(of the ones I know, at least).

And they also work in very different way.
Anyway, the Lunar Calendar is used same as the Solar, only the month pillar is different. But it is connected to the Moon, that is how its calculated. Since it has a whole leap month every 2-3 years its very unreliable, however, so wiser to use the Solar if unsure.

If someone wants to see it in practice in our calendar site:

Can click Settings > Calendar
And choose Lunar Calendar.
That will show the elements for the Lunar Calendar that year.
 

hilary

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Thanks, Gmulii. Do you know of any qualities attributed to the phases of the moon - this phase is a good time for journeys, that one a good time for marriages - that kind of thing?

(The old sources I found described particular auspices and qualities of time attributed to where the moon was, but not its phase.)
 

Gmulii

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Thanks, Gmulii. Do you know of any qualities attributed to the phases of the moon - this phase is a good time for journeys, that one a good time for marriages - that kind of thing?

(The old sources I found described particular auspices and qualities of time attributed to where the moon was, but not its phase.)
I haven't seen the phase of the Moon used directly anywhere other then the month pillar in the lunar calendar I think.

As you mentioned, there is a lot focused on where they are (The 28 Lunar Mansions 二十八宿圖) I can post meaning based on that... But in practice that isn't accurate, as its just 28 values rotating every 28 days, so since everything drifts off with time I'm guessing the positions are different for hundreds if not thousands of years already.

In general, the Five Arts systems are awesome, but when it comes to precise astronomical calculations, western astrology works a lot better. As some people are worried that the stuff is not perfectly aligned with astronomical math(many examples for that all over), yet we can see in practice it doesn't slow them down, it still works great. But practitioners may need to accept that much of it, may not be entirely connected to a real phenomenon(some of the bazi pillars have drift off so far from what they are suppose to show that its silly to see them as still connected to Jupiter or other planets at this point).
 

dfreed

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The ancient Chinese kept track of time in different ways: using both a solar calendar and a lunar calendar (with it's 12 moons or months); and also using ten-day 'weeks' and 60-day cycles. I assume that certain tasks or rituals were assigned to, or carried out during specific moons (or months); perhaps others were done at a time that was divined to be 'auspicious'. And even without being tied to a specific month or moon, there were times within a month's cycle (new, waxing, waning, full) when certain tasks were best carried out.

For example, in Bio-dynamic Gardening, the phases of the moon play an important role: "they suggest the best times to do ... jobs, such as planting and pruning (is) when the moon is descending; or harvesting when the moon is ascending. Sowing seeds just before the full moon is always a winner ...."

I think the ancients knew this, and were well-attuned to these changes. So, when I think about the moon and it's phases, what comes to mind are the notions of time, cycles, the correct or appropriate timing of things, and the elemental forces which pull on us.

One takeaway (or story) for 9.6 might be:
Hex. 9 - farmers have been waiting for the rain to come, but so far they only see 'the signs' - clouds on the western horizon. At 9.6 the rain comes (and then stops) at just the right time - just before the full moon - so that (depending on the translation), farmers can now sow their seeds in the damp soil, or the full moon forces can now begin to 'pull on' the seeds and get them to grow. This is not a time for more auguries or omens, and not a time to travel, but instead it is a time to attend to the task at hand.​

The Shang and Zhou were inland states, but the Qin, Han and later dynasties were very aware of the pull of the moon (and the sun), which created high tides, which in turn could affect flooding and navigation - as they still do.

*******

I looked at Wilhelm's commentaries for a deeper dive. He starts off his commentary for 9.6:

'Because the (6th) line moves, the trigram Wind (Sun), becomes the trigram 'rain and moon' (Moving Water, Kan). The line stands at the top of Sun - gentle and devoted - which has gradually accumulated within itself the powers of the Creative (Heaven, lower trigram), so that the desired effect has been achieved ....'

Bringing this into modern times, another reading (story) for 9.6 might be:
In the Thames River in East London is the Thames Barrier which was built to protect London from flooding when a combination of high tides and a storm surge from the North Sea can flood and inundate the city.​
9.6: All the 'sign's are in place: the moon is full, the pressure is dropping, the wind has come up, along with the rain - and all these forces have come together - Wind, Rain, Moon, Tides - and could potentially flood London.​
The Thames Barrier Gatekeeper has canceled her 'gatekeeper's holiday' - which this year, because of COVID restrictions was going to be a tour of the 'gates' of London: Aldgate, Bishopsgate, Moorgate, Cripplegate, Aldersgate, Newgate, Ludgate. She's not going to linger over breakfast as she usually does - reading her horoscope or doing a Tarot reading - but instead she needs to get to the Barrier to attend to the task at hand - closing the gates so the city does not flood!​

Best, D
 
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hilary

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I like the point about growing with the phases of the moon - one thing that won't have changed in the past 3,000 years.
 

dfreed

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.... Wilhelm's .... commentary for 9.6: 'Because the (6th) line moves, the trigram Wind, becomes the trigram 'rain and moon' (Moving Water). The line stands at the top of Wind - gentle and devoted - which has gradually accumulated within itself the powers of the Creative (Heaven, lower trigram), so that the desired effect has been achieved ....'

I like the point about growing with the phases of the moon ....
Thanks. I apologize for my early morning (pre-coffee) ramblings about the Thames Barrier ... it made 'sense' at the time (and I still find it interesting), but looking back I realize that it was based on Rutt's translation, and are perhaps confusing in this thread - which I didn't want to turn into a Rutt / anti-Rutt discussion.

Unfortunately, when I went back in to edit some of this out, I could no longer do so.

I'll say however, that what I shared about how the ancients (may have) used and understood the moon's cycles - and how we still do so today - are valid (if that's the right word?); and I can envision different forces at work in line 9.6: moving water, rain and moon, gentle wind, the creative Heavens (as described by Wilhelm's discussion of the trigrams) - and I assume this can be true with other lines about the full or almost full moon.

Regards, D
 

hilary

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Why edit? All ramblings welcome here.
I can envision different forces at work in line 9.6: moving water, rain and moon, gentle wind, the creative Heavens (as described by Wilhelm's discussion of the trigrams) - and I assume this can be true with other lines about the full or almost full moon.
Yes, for the natural associations, but not so much for trigrams. Wilhelm points out that 9.6 changes to kan and that 54.5 is in a nuclear trigram kan in the original hexagram; for 61.4, with no kan anywhere in sight, he doesn't mention trigrams.
 

dfreed

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.... he doesn't mention trigrams ....
Hilary, I’m not sure what you mean here? (Or am I taking this out of context?)

I just looked at a few different hexagrams in Wilhelm’s Book III. I found many instances (in each hexagram I looked at) where he talks about the hexagrams or the changing lines in term of the attributes of the trigrams - and in some cases, the nuclear trigrams ...

Ex. “ ... here the lower nuclear trigram is ...”. “The yielding line of the inner trigram ...” “The nuclear trigram Ken means brightness and light.” “Here we have standstill (Ken) outside and clarity (Li) inside” ....

And I’m seeing dozens of these, which I was surprised to find. (I can’t easily copy and paste right now but I can tomorrow if you want more specifics or details.)

This makes me think that trigram attributes and meanings have been a part of theYi for a long time, from perhaps as early as the Zuo Commentaries (560-487 bc) up to Wilhelm and beyond.

Best, D.
 

dfreed

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Wilhelm points out that 9.6 changes to kan and that 54.5 is in a nuclear trigram kan in the original hexagram; for 61.4, with no kan anywhere in sight, he doesn't mention trigrams.

Yes, out of context.
Thanks for clarifying this. I was looking at Wilhelm's (and I assume the Confucian's) use of trigrams, whereas you were referring to one Line 61.4 - and I missed that detail.

As I said above:
... in Wilhelm’s Book III, I found many (but not in all cases) instances ... where he talks ... (about) the attributes of the trigrams - and in some cases, the nuclear trigrams ....
Best, D
 
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rosada

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I see 9.6 as a "let go and let God" line. You plant the seeds, the rain comes, you have faith your good intentions will manifest so you give it all a rest. You know better than to worry and go out and dig the seeds up to see how they're doing. Rather you 5. Wait to see what results the full moon brings.
 
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rosada

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"Rather you 5. Wait."

9.6 changes to 5. Waiting

I'm seeing 9.6 as meaning that time when you've done all you can do and you have to stop fussing with the project and just wait to see what the response is. Like you tell someone a joke and then you have to wait to see if they get it. If you have explain it too much it wont get a laugh.
 
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my_key

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"Rather you 5. Wait."

9.6 changes to 5. Waiting

I'm seeing 9.6 as meaning that time when you've done all you can do and you have to stop fussing with the project and just wait to see what the response is. Like you tell someone a joke and then you have to wait to see if they get it. If you have explain it too much it wont get a laugh.
You mean 'Trust the process' ?
 

Trojina

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Unlike the previous two lines, this one puts the waxing moon first – emphasising that the light is getting brighter, we’re almost there, on the cusp of alignment and perfect rapport.

@hilary This has been bugging me for a while as I think that's the very opposite of the significance of the full moon in western astrology. The full moon is not at all a time of perfect rapport and alignment it's a time of opposition, crisis, sometimes fulfilment. Things come to a head for good or for ill. I think that's a pretty universal understanding of the significance of the full moon, or at least to me it seems intuitively irrefutable.

If the moon is almost full to me that indicates things are almost coming to a head. The sun and the moon stand opposite each other in a full moon, tension is high as if there is a strong pull between them. That's not like perfect rapport.


In 9,6 things are on their way to coming to a head and you likely can't prevent it. Like the tides of the sea the moon pulls you go with it, a crisis or fulfilment or denouement is coming and so it's best to lay low. Often people are advised not to venture forth on a full moon. So in 9.6 it's time to rest because natural powers bring things to a climax.

With the moon almost full, this line’s on the verge of that perfect partnershp. Its rising energy has to do with relationship, turning towards one another and coming into alignment – a terrible time for him to turn his face away from the home and set out to war.
It may be not the right time for him to set out, he doesn't need to, things are already well on their way to some kind of manifestation without him or her meddling in it. The moon draws the tides and liquid in us and our emotions and tides of happenings, that's why it's not the time to get active in making things happen. They already are happening and the reason it says 'the moon is almost full' is I believe to tell you that you don't quite see that yet, it's not yet apparent that things are coming to a head but Yi is telling you, predictively, that they will. You must have experienced times where all manner of events were coming together without your knowledge to change a situation and yet you were unaware of it. At such times it wouldn't be a good idea to get busy changing things because unbeknown to you there are things going on that will change things for you.


In 54.5 again it won't be apparent to those involved just yet that actually things aren't how they now appear.

I think the word 'alignment' gives the wrong idea. I mean the sun and the moon are always in relationship and so in alignment somewhere but at the full moon they oppose one another, things 'come to light', there's exposure, crisis, fulfilment, it's a kind of peak and it's tense. They aren't melding into one another at the full moon they are in contrast.
 

my_key

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The full moon is not at all a time of perfect rapport and alignment it's a time of opposition, crisis, sometimes fulfilment. Things come to a head for good or for ill. I think that's a pretty universal understanding of the significance of the full moon, or at least to me it seems intuitively irrefutable.
This is a valid point Trojina.

For me too, New Moon = new beginnings; Full Moon = culmination of the cycle. Whatever that cycle has been about it has reached a point of fulfillment 'perfectly'. Unfortunately not many people see crisis or something 'coming to a head' as a positive situation - a situation promoting change (growth). This is why I think that the Full Moon's PR people have been putting it out and about that Full Moon = Positive Situation.

As such, I see it more as events in the here and now, rather than the Sun and Moon, that are coming into alignment and that that alignment could well mean that there is a perfect opposition at the time of the Full Moon. The creative tension that is manifest at such powerful times can bring forth 'positive' as well as 'negative' outcomes. Yi does not fret over which only that the culmination carries a sense of perfection: opposites working together in harmony albeit that some of that harmonious interaction may culminate in opposition perfectly.

This is why on a human level 'trusting the process' is so vitally important.
 

hilary

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I didn't manage to find any Chinese sources that attributed meanings to lunar phases, so it's good to have the Western-astrological view.

So 'moon almost full' meaning 'things are coming to a head, culmination imminent, you may not be able to see it yet but here it comes'?

That fits 54.5, except that the culmination is coming not in a few days but after many years. What about 61.4 - any thoughts on that?
 

my_key

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What about 61.4 - any thoughts on that?

Hex 61 has a meaning of things becoming trustworthy. The best guidance within this process is for the noble one to be discerning and not to jump to conclusions over matters. Perhaps alluding again to trusting the process.

61.4 - Here that 'thing' that has been giving you support and strength: helping you to carry your load has found the work too much to carry on with and leaves you to find ways to cope on your own / in a different way. This is not a mistake as it allows a space that can be filled by a 'new arrival'. The situation may initially be scary - you've lost your best mate after all (the thing that has been carrying your burden with you) - but trusting the creative tension that manifests in the situation will lead to a culmination of something that is greater than you had before.

So perhaps a case of crisis or something coming to a head. However beyond that somewhere over the rainbow the dreams that you dared to dream (now that there is a new space that will allow the lining up of those little piggies and fishes) really will come true.

That fits 54.5, except that the culmination is coming not in a few days but after many years. What about 61.4 - any thoughts on that?
Hex 54 the hexagram akin to childhood memories Hide and Seek and of " Coming, coming ready or not". The fine new sleeves are showing what they have to offer, more than the old jaded garments worn by the current ruler of the roost. Woe betide you or anyone else who steps in the way of the new broom sweeping clean. Here you have no choice but to be open to the shake up that has been set in motion.

I'm not sure if things are moving 'after many years' but certainly there is now an inevitableness about the culmination, based on changing the previous rules in the marriage.
 
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Trojina

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I didn't manage to find any Chinese sources that attributed meanings to lunar phases, so it's good to have the Western-astrological view.

So 'moon almost full' meaning 'things are coming to a head, culmination imminent, you may not be able to see it yet but here it comes'?

That fits 54.5, except that the culmination is coming not in a few days but after many years. What about 61.4 - any thoughts on that?

The time in the line whether days or years doesn't matter because an almost full moon is a symbol of a kind of time that's happening but you know that so...


I don't feel the significance of the full moon can vary very much between astrological systems, times and cultures because unlike words on a page one sees the effect in nature, very high tides, very low tides, the behaviour of wildlife and on people. And of course it's visually a full moon from our perspective on earth, our subjective view from our planet allows a full moon view. The full moon can be seen as a big round disc from where we are, the view relies on where we are with the moon is tethered to us, tethered to our orbit, in yoke certainly.

As my astronomy is very dusty I was just randomly googling about the moon's orbit and this phrase struck me as poignant of what the moon is to us

'Almost everything in the solar system is orbiting the sun, and yet, the Moon refuses to leave our side' (www.universetoday)

Ah

side tracked but the moon is faithful, it's yoked to us as we are yoked to the sun. I have never felt the runaway horse in 61.4 was going off to start a new life by itself, I always thought it was more like the moon phases. She disappears from sight at new moon then a slender sickle then full and fat and doing a stand off with the sun but she doesn't unyoke. 61.4's horse does unyoke and goes for a gallop before things reach full crisis at the full moon. The line path may shed some lunar light on what's happening in 61.4. Particularly 9.3 as I have always felt with 9.3 whilst no yokes or moons are mentioned these 2 heads with these eyes are enacting a lunar phase something like the dance between the sun, the moon and earth moving in and out of phases of relationship without actually becoming unhooked, well not yet anyway.

10.4 treading on eggshells, a really tentative phase and then the paired line 61.3 where there's so much relating, the magnetic influences are felt so strongly that having a gallop in 61.4 is part of it all.

I also had a thought about the 'void of course' moon which is the idea that at times when the moon is making no particular aspect to any other planetary body she does her thing, isn't yoked. If the moon is not quite yet full at times she may be unyoked. Reminds me of

Because the moon moves so quickly through the signs (it's the fastest moving of all the planets in astrology), it's constantly forming aspects with other planets, which ignites its power and subsequently affects our moods, our emotions, our energy levels, and more. But once the moon has completed the final aspect to another planet within a certain sign's realm, it's considered void-of-course until it enters the next sign. This marks a period of time when the moon is totally on her own, floating through the zodiac without any influence from any of the other planets that are usually there to bounce their energy off her.

From


 

hilary

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I wonder if the 'void moon' is a thing in Chinese astrology too. (Is there someone round these forums who'd know?)

Also, you could say the trigrams of 61 are standing facing one another, like moon & sun. I know neither trigram's associated with either, but still...
 

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What about 61.4 - any thoughts on that?

I do like exploring in this more abstract way, e.g. what does this line and it's moon mean? However - as I've often said, but I think it bears repeating - the answer, the "what does this mean" will be different depending on our question / query, e.g:

* what should I cook my boss for dinner?
* why don't they love me anymore?
* how sick will I get if I contract the COVID Delta variant and I haven't been vaccinated yet?

Wilhelm's 61.4 is:
The moon nearly at the full.
The team horse goes astray.
No blame.


Rutt's 61.4 is:
The moon will soon be fully round,
One horse's yoke-mate can't be found.
No misfortune.


They are a bit different, but with many shared elements: a nearly (soon to be) full moon; a horse that can't be found; and either 'no blame' or 'no misfortune' - or both.

What might this mean?
Here I can imagine a horse feeling the soon-to-be-full moon in it's blood ('feeling his oats'?), a rising, almost magnetic pull, which is also - at the same time - being felt by the newly-emerging grasses and the full-moon tides.​
Feeling this pull, the horse bolts, and heads out under cover of night. And despite the moon being nearly fully-lit, a search for the missing horse reveals nothing - it 'goes astray, and can't be found'.​
In the morning the merchant ponders, "well, maybe this full moon is a good omen, despite my missing horse." And so he ties his remaining horse to a much smaller cart and heads off with some of his wares to sell at market.​
Along the way he is overcome by robbers whom pass him by, because they think the merchant's small, humble cart can't be carrying much of value.​
'Ah', says the merchant as he reaches the market town, 'my horse running away in the full moon was a good omen after all!'
And he has a notion - something tugging at him (like the tugging of the moon on the horse, the grasses and tides), that the almost-full moon has something to do with his good luck.​

****
Looking at the movement of the trigrams, we have 61's upper Wind, changing to Hex. 10's Heaven: we start with Wind's exploration of many possiblities (or in this case, two), and we end up with Heaven's decision to select one horse - and here the Moon served as an ally to Heaven in making this choice.

And getting more 'Karcher-esque' about it (Stephen Karcher's mythic-poetic Yi), here I can see the Moon's light as a shadow / mirror of the Sun - as a reflection of Heaven.

****
A few weeks ago I took part in a smoke ceremony at my local Tibetan Buddhist temple. There were four fires lit around the sides of the temple, and at one point the Rinpoche led us in a procession around the temple where people placed offerings (juniper leaves, dried flowers, etc.) on each of the smoking fires.

We were all given small paper prayer flags, and at the end of the ceremony we tossed these up into the wind. Each of these had an image of a 'wind horse' - a mythical creature in Tibetan folklore and religion.

So here we have a mythical Windhorse: Wind joined with Heaven (a fine, excellent horse). And coming full circle: the Windhorse is being carried up to Heaven by Wind.

Or in Buddhist (-like) terms, Windhorse is the vehicle and it is also that which is being carried by the Vehicle.

Best, D
 
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Gmulii

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I wonder if the 'void moon' is a thing in Chinese astrology too. (Is there someone round these forums who'd know?)

Also, you could say the trigrams of 61 are standing facing one another, like moon & sun. I know neither trigram's associated with either, but still...

There is void, but it isn't connected to the Moon. The meaning is similar, however, but is used in different ways, like it can reverse some stuff, or attribute meaning to other, however in general means something isn't really there or has an "unmaterial" meaning to it.

Some short info about it here for bazi:

Its in almost every system, even in Feng Shui:

However, not sure its there in face reading(Mian Xiang) and palm reading and the others like that, but in most of the ones connected to the calendars it plays important role.

Some schools of bazi that I enjoy, view that void can also change the polarity. So for example, if we look for someone in a chart, like the persons grand parents or kids and they are represented by Yang stem or branch, it can often show male, vs Yin for female, if that pillar is in void, it reverses the polarity.


About the Moon, I looked around, I'm kinda sure the early heaven arrangment of the Trigrams was somewhere explained as coming from/connected to the Phases of the Moon(with Kun being new moon and Qian being full moon), but I couldn't find anything on that now. Its difficult to check something along the way, sometimes, as there is just too many materials where it could have been explained. We still use Qian with Images of full Moon sometimes, however...
 
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Trojina

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I do like exploring in this more abstract way, e.g. what does this line and it's moon mean? However - as I've often said, but I think it bears repeating - the answer, the "what does this mean" will be different depending on our question / query, e.g:

* what should I cook my boss for dinner?
* why don't they love me anymore?
* how sick will I get if I contract the COVID Delta variant and I haven't been vaccinated yet?


I think Hilary, along with most people here, surely already know that. Surely that is generally taken as a given, I mean she does teach I Ching courses so if she wasn't aware that answers have to be taken in context of the question we'd all be in trouble !

I think what you've missed is that her question

What about 61.4 - any thoughts on that?

...was actually in context of a conversation that had just sparked off again when I came back to this thread in post 16 to make a point about the full moon. She was asking me I think in context of the mini discussion in that particular conversation. She wasn't just asking 'what does it mean ?' at all, her question is part of a conversation. I'd given thoughts on 9.6 and 54.5 but not 61.4...so her question was in context of that micro discussion subsidiary to the main thread. It is of course a blog from about a month ago where if you scroll up you can see you discussed 'the meaning' of the moon phases in post 5.

It's a good idea to read around individual posts because otherwise you are just plucking out a phrase and responding to that without noticing the context in which things are said. You can easily get confused that way.

 
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dfreed

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I think Hilary, along with most people here, surely already know that. Surely that is generally taken as a given, I mean she does teach I Ching courses .....

I think what you've missed is that her question ...

Hilary teaches I Ching courses? I did not know that! Thanks for sharing. That's cleared up a lot of confusion for me!

I assume I am free to answer her question in any way I want, sans any insult or harsh criticism. And I was considering the broader context of this thread: the moon almost full - and what it means when we find it in the Yi, and in 61.4.

However, if you think what I said doesn't fit into the context of your 'mini-discussion', well what can I say? Maybe you can just not read what I wrote? Or maybe read it and give it a frowny face? You can even respond to what I wrote and not comment at all on the actual content. That too is an option.

And if all you want to focus on is ' ... I think it bears repeating - the answer ... will be different depending on our question / query' ... than you missed the more interesting (and dare I say) insightful parts of my thread!
 
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Trojina

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You can answer in any way you want of course but here you just took the question out of context and sounded like you were mildly exasperated you had to instruct us once more


I do like exploring in this more abstract way, e.g. what does this line and it's moon mean? However - as I've often said, but I think it bears repeating - the answer, the "what does this mean" will be different depending on our question / query, e.g:

* what should I cook my boss for dinner?
* why don't they love me anymore?
* how sick will I get if I contract the COVID Delta variant and I haven't been vaccinated yet?


It's just the idea Hilary wouldn't know that is just quite strange for one thing, I mean how can you imagine she doesn't know that ? But also she wasn't actually just saying 'what does it mean'.

I have every right to point out that the first part of your answer was a reply to something you had misunderstood. Seems to me you didn't read chunks of the thread.


I don't need you to give me options on how to respond, I choose that thanks.

I'm very puzzled as to how you'd think Hilary didn't know the above, quoted, and the only possible explanation I can see is that you didn't read her question in the context of the conversation or even in context of the blog post but you must have read that as you responded to it previously. As for insults it seems an implicit insult, though not intended as such I'm sure, to attribute such a level of ignorance to Hilary and to probably most readers.


 
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dfreed

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It's just the idea Hilary wouldn't know that is just quite strange ....

I assumed that Hilary knows what I'm talking about and understands I'm not insulting her (implicit or otherwise) - after all, she did give me a 'thumbs up' on my post!

And because Hilary didn't take offense or find what I wrote 'insulting', I don't really get your point? Or perhaps it is you m'lady, whom I have deeply offended with my post?

That aside, i think it 'takes a village' and that there are perhaps (and hopefully) dozens or hundreds of us whom also participate here. And what I wrote is also meant for this much larger group - though of course you are welcome to read it!

But if you want to continue to fixate on a rather minor point and be offended by it, (i.e. continue to whip a dead horse) please do so.

PS - I was not 'mildly exasperated' or even mildly-mildly exasperated when I wrote my post. I was quite content actually, but I appreciate your concern for my well-being!

PPS - and 'mildly mildly' reminds me that here in Washington state we have a few repeating place names of native origin: Hamma Hamma, Walla Walla .... and these remind me of when we find this repetition in the Yi: shock comes, clap-clap; followed by laughter, yack-yack!
 
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hilary

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Polite moderatorly suggestion: this seems like a really excellent moment to stop before the discussion gets derailed. Thank you.
 

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