Can someone tells me more of Yi Lines Forrest of Change?

[cjgait]

50_50 (including modern translations and English)

鼎之:鼎：積德之至，君政且溫，伊呂股肱，國富民安。

积累德政的君王，
施行仁政而且平和温柔。
加上伊尹、吕望这样的大臣，
国家富强人民安乐。(Baihua)
Notes: ①君:据【道藏).宋元本作”至”。
②仁:据. (道藏).宋元本作“君”。

很有品德的君主，
就会实行仁政并且温和友善.
伊吕是辅助君主的主要功臣，
使国家富强人民安定。 (Tujie)

君主积德到最伟大，
政治温良如伊尹太公一样的贤臣相佐，
国富民安。
吉。 (Xinzhu)

The ruler who accumulates benevolence,
Can put it into practise in a moderate and gentle government,
With the assistence of great ministers like Yi Yin (minister of Tang, founder of the Shang Dynasty) and Lu Wang (Qi Taigong, valued counsellor to King Wen of the Zhou Dynasty),
The nation prospers and the people are contented.

30_23 43_43 6_37 41_30 (With modern Chinese translation and English)

離之:剝：戴堯扶禹，從喬彭祖，西過王母，道里夷易，無敢難者。

拥护唐尧扶植夏禹，
跟从仙人王乔和彭祖。
往西拜访王母娘娘，
迫里平坦畅通无阻，
没有人敢于挡道。 (Baihua)

拥戴唐尧爱抚复禹，
跟随仙人王桥与彭祖。
住西遇见王母娘娘，
道路平坦。 (Jietu)

拥戴扶持像尧禹一样的圣君，
跟从王路乔彭祖一样的神仙，
去拜访西王母无人敢阻难。
利贞。 (Xinzhu)

Supporting Yao and assisting Yu,
Following the celestial beings Wang Qiao and Peng Zu.
Meeting the Queen Mother of the West,
The path is smooth,
No man dares block the way.

 

[peterg]

Yilin Repeats and Derivation

I am curious about Yilin text repetitions so I went through the yellow tab parallel passages for hexagram 64 here http://ctext.org/jiaoshi-yilin/wei-ji-zhi

I found that 44 texts repeated 93 times.Thats 40% (64/157) without the repetitions, and 60% (93/157) repeated.Taken as a sample that implies that about 2450 yilin texts are repeats.I looked at about half of hexagrams 1,44 and some of 21, and the results were about the same. 40% or about 1600 texts without the repetitions, and 60% or about 2400 repeated.

Then I looked at the Advanced search at bottom left of page and realised it could all be done automatically.You may need to be logged in to see it but its an easy sign up ( email,user name, password) and you can stay logged in permanently.

Its such a useful tool its worth going through the search parameters, although there is a link to an instructions page.
1.Scope : Select Pre Qin and Han>Ancient Classics>Jiaoshi Yilin>Hexagram64
2.Request Type : Paragraph. Text. (you can switch between text and statistics in results)
Automatic, Exact and Identical yield the same results in this kind of search with only slight differences.I choose identical.You can edit search on the results page and switch between them.
3.Select text and for parallel passages select Jiaoshi Yilin>All.
Then select Search.

Results show : 42 texts repeat and 185 matches.
The texts are shown in colour code so you can tell which are full and partial repetitions.And its printable if logged in.
Subtract the 64 hexagram texts to get 121 repeats. 91 are full repeats. 30 are partial ( 1,2, or more lines)
Manually I got 93 fully repeated texts. (The partials add up to the equivalent of about 11 yilin texts if taken all together.I left them out but they could easily be factored in to get two figures, one with the partials, one without)

It would be easy enough to do the same for a few more hexagrams and refine the 40-60% figure I got.

Text Derivation
This two page essay gives a few clues on derivation and says the idea has its origin in a sentence from the Zuozhuan '' The male and female phoenix fly together singing harmoniously with gem like sounds.''
http://www.chinaknowledge.de/Literature/Daoists/jiaoshiyilin.html

Even better is this post#14 (and #18) from boyler at http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...baoti-trigrams-of-the-King-Wen-sequence/page2
There is a reference to Harmen's 'Yilin forum' which I haven't seen.Maybe its hard to find.

 

[peterg]

I did see Harmen's Yilin page at his old website but forgot about it. He dropped the project so there's not a lot to read. http://i-tjingcentrum.nl/serendipity/archives/102-The-Yilin-in-2007.html What became of Boyler's plan to translate Shang Binghe's JSYLZhu ?


The Chinaknowledge link above says that ''for each of the 4096 changes the author writes a short analysis consisting of a four syllable rhyme,an idea that has its origin in a sentence of the history Zuozhuan 左傳 (Fenghuang yu fei, he ming qiangqiang. 鳳凰于飛，和鳴鏘鏘 "The male and female phoenix fly together, singing harmoniously with gem-like sounds.").
I couldn't find this quote in the Zuozhuan but I found it in one of the Confucian works, the Fengsu Tongyi,in the first chapter, the Huangba, section 10 :http://ctext.org/pre-qin-and-han?searchu=鳳凰于飛，和鳴鏘鏘 (If the link doesn't display due to login it can be found easily enough at the CTP under Confucianism).
Its not translated but the green tab takes you to a word for word transliteration if anyone wants to plough through that.Yijing 20.4-12 is also mentioned in the quote.

David Zebulon Raft
A Professor who specialises in Classical Chinese poetry. For the very serious student, he has published in 2007, a 538 page Harvard dissertation on Four Syllable Verse in Medieval China.(Han to Tang). It includes a 60 page study of the Jiaoshi Yilin.The paper can be purchased from Proquest Dissertations and Theses starting at $39 unbound...if I ever win a lottery.I did download a free preview of 14 pages from the introduction (from one of the Academic websites), where he discusses the poems of the Shijing and the Chuci in a readable way.
A number of his current projects are quite interesting :
1. A study and representative translation of the Jiaoshi Yilin (''a book of divination rhymes from the turn of the Common Era'').
2.Studies in the history of the translation of Chinese poetry into English.
3.A 65 page article on the limits of translation : Method in Arthur Waley's translations from the Chinese.
Read about his publications, current projects, and himself, in this four page PDF: http://www.ualberta.ca/~raft/Zeb Raft_CV_current.pdf‎
or just google his name and PDF.
More about Raft which includes a link to a website about the history of Chinese poetry in translation
http://eastasianstudies.ualberta.ca/en/People/Faculty/RaftZeb.aspx

 

[peterg]

https://direct-production-capture-b...895122&Signature=+E4L40Uk4xxTVRaz3OFHjUTiPMc=
https://direct-production-capture-b...895122&Signature=UIWY9IJDS+DN15ZXMIRO3p8OBeQ=


Speaking of poetry...these are from David Zeb Rafts Four Syllable Verse in Medieval China.They are from a 3 day read only preview, so they might have a short shelf life,but having seen this I will buy the PDF.
http://udini.proquest.com/preview/four-syllable-verse-in-medieval-goid:304851756/


Compare the transliterations (green tab and run cursor along line) for Hexagram 1 at http://ctext.org/jiaoshi-yilin/gan-zhi
Stacked windows helps.
Raft's translation of Jiaoshi Yilin H.1 is excellent.Its follows the text quite literally but is intuitive too.Many of the texts have interesting footnotes.
The JSYL chapter is a preliminary discussion and sample translation of all of H1, but he has a bigger project underway. Also dicuussed are authorship and date, verse in the divination tradition, the Yilin and the Shijing and the Yilin and the Hanshi waizhuan. 60 pages in all.
Within limits you can share your individual library documents with anyone who signs up.Its a free sign up, so worth checking out.Credit c. info. is not required until you buy something.
I asked how secure is credit c. info and they assured secure encryption, which isn't clearly displayed at the website.They sent this http://www.authorize.net/
PS there is a 24 page preview of the dissertation around somewhere but I cant remember where I got it so I took a liberty with two pages.
I like JSYL 1>5 and its eye popping which is how I see the document.

 

[peterg]

The quote about the phoenix a couple of posts back is in the Zuozhuan in Zhuang 22 http://ctext.org/pre-qin-and-han?searchu=和鳴鏘鏘
Legges translation of the Zuozhuan can be downloaded from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuo_Zhuan
Kidder Smith discusses six cases of Zhouyi divination from the Zuozhuan including case three, the one in Zhuang 22 www.biroco.com/yijing/Kidder_Smith_Zhouyi_Zuozhuan.pdf
A lot more here at anslem http://www.anselm.edu/homepage/athornto/zuozhuan.htm#Zhuang22

In the Yilin the appearance of the phoenix http://ctext.org/jiaoshi-yilin?searchu= 鳳
is almost always very auspicious unless its injured or hiding as in 9>44 and 12>28. Its usually paired as in fenghuang, qilin ('unicorn') fenghuang, linfeng or even with cang long. Looking at the omens that cluster around the phoenix in the Yilin its an emblem of good government, peace and prosperity in the nation state.Peace in the house and auspicious for marriage.The people live peacefully and incline towards goodness. Junzi and shengren abound.Qi flows smoothly,yin and yang are in harmony,the seasons follow the proper order.No misfortunes or calamity or bandit invasions.

 

[peterg]

From the advanced search at CTP http://ctext.org/jiaoshi-yilin?matchtype=binary&parallelsearch=85326 (click 'show statistics' for a simpler view).
Its still a work in progress but I think we can be fairly sure there are 1282 core texts in the Yilin which don't repeat.The other 2814 are repeaters.
There is more core text in the partially repeated texts.About 2/3 of the content of about 900 texts.(a rough provisional estimate from a look at a few hexagrams).
The next step would be to estimate the core text in all the repeaters or whats left when you exclude the repetitions.

There are about five pages of JSYL related threads at Olc.This old thread caught my eye.http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?2932-Jiao-Shi-Yi-Lin-(-Aring-Otilde-Ntilde-)
A lot of text displays as &#?%.Same applies to the next olc thread link. Is this fixable?
There is a reference to a K.E.Brashier paper. ( post#4 and a link here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...terlife-from-an-Ancient-Chinese-point-of-view
The paper link no longer works.Is the paper still available anywhere ?)
The first thread discusses JSYL 1>61 http://ctext.org/dictionary.pl?if=en&id=85389
CTP 乾之: 中孚：舜升大禹，石夷之野。徵詣王庭，并治水土。
David Raft : Shun promoted Yu the Great, In the wilds of Shiyi. Called to attend the king's court, He was appointed to order the water and earth.
Raft quotes from Yilin Jiaolue by Di Yunsheng (19th century) which identifies shi yi 石夷 as an abbreviation of barbarian lands past Mount Shiniu and cites a source saying Yu was born at Shiniu.

I searched Yu 禹 at CTP and found references to Shun and Yu and the great inundation, almost certainly an historic incident in China's history.http://ctext.org/pre-qin-and-han?searchu=禹
More about 'Yu floods'( type in search, and go) here from Anne Birrel's Chinese Mythology:An Introduction
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0801861837/clarityiching-20#reader_0801861837
from Hilary's blog The Story Gun and Yu http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/learn/history/gun-and-yu.php
Yu and H.39 from Hilary's latest blog Dreams:Rain Dance of the Soul http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...Dreams-rain-dance-of-the-soul-(from-the-blog)

 

[peterg]

I like Wikipedia's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood_(China) and this from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_the_Great :
'' The Gun-Yu Great Flood is commonly referred to as Great Yu Controls the Waters 大禹治水 Dà Yǔ Zhì Shuǐ. (compare jsyl 1>61).In particular, Mount Longmen along the Yellow River had a very narrow channel which blocked water from flowing freely east toward the ocean. Yu is said to have brought a large number of workers to open up this channel, which has been known ever since as "Yu's Gateway" (Chinese: 禹門口)''.
This explains a reference to Yu boring (open) the dragons gate in http://ctext.org/dictionary.pl?if=en&id=85344
JSYL 1>16 乾之: 豫：禹鑿龍門，通利水源。東注滄海，民得安存。
David Raft : ''Yu bore the Dragon Gate, Commuting the benefit of a source of water, East it flowed into the blue sea, And the people lived at peace''.

So what does http://ctext.org/jiaoshi-yilin?matchtype=binary&parallelsearch=85326 tell us about JSYL repeats? Quite a lot actually.There are 11156 'matches' made up of 1282 core texts which don't repeat + 2814 texts which repeat + 7060 repetitions = 11156 matches.
If 2814 texts repeat 7060 times this suggests a core of 1121 if we apply the same repeat rate.
Giving a total core text of 1282 + 1121 = 2403.
That leaves the problem of partial text repeats.Maybe 200 or 300 of 1121.

Footnote.In the first Wikipedia link the Great Flood, note 27, David Hawkes has an interesting take on Gun's way( dams and dykes) and Yu's way (opening and clearing channels) as symbolic of a transformative shift in use of soil, agricultural practices and societal development. Gun represented an earlier small scale stage and technology. And Yu a later stage and innovative larger scale approach to transforming wetlands to arable fields.Or something like that.
This idea seems to tie in with the Zhouyi NE SW as, old way, new better way.

 

[cjgait]

A revised and belated translation of 41 - 30:

Supporting Yao and assisting Yu,
Chi Song Zi, Wang Zi Qiao and Pengzu travel,*
To see the Queen Mother of the West.
The road is smooth and easy,
And no one causes trouble on the way.

* Chi Song Zi and Wang Zi Qiao were hermits living at the time of the legendary emperor Shen Nong. Their names became generic terms for hermits.

 

[peterg]

Cj are you familiar with David Raft's ''Four Syllable Verse in Medieval China'' ? (posts 33 and 34).
It has a 60 page chapter on the JSYL. I have it in a library at Proquest-Udini-Flow. Its sharable to read. If you'd like to read it sometime I could probably set it up. It needs an email address and maybe a signup (free).I don't think they sell documents now due to change of ownership.
His approach is a representative translation of the JSYL texts rather than the whole book. I was willing to buy a €37 pdf mainly for that chapter.
K.E.Brashier's book ''Ancestral Memory in Early China''(2011) is why his paper is no longer online.(post 36)
It includes about a dozen JSYL texts translated and discussed in context.
I also found a few papers at Google Scholar which have interesting JSYL content : 33>33 by Heiner Fruehauf in 'Aging' a pdf ; Vivienne Lo (05 Lo) in Huangdi Hama Jing (Yellow Emperors Toad Canon) on the three legged crow aa toad hare and moon.; and another paper by Jue Chen about a 'big white ape who steals a charming concubine' related to the story of Pan Hu about a dog who also steals women.
But all that is on ice for the time being.

 

[cjgait]

I haven't seen that article and it would indeed be of great interest. I would love to see it. There is indeed at least one verse with an ape stealing a concubine. It stuck out as being quite curious.

2 - 23

In the southern mountains live the rhesus macaques,*
They steal our concubines away.
Timid, not pursuing,
Returning home to sleep alone.

* The term used means one of several large primates, with one scholar even identifying it as a gorilla. But the description of the animal being in the south and having a barking cry best fits the rhesus macaque, still a common monkey in southern China.

I would be very interested in any and all papers and links you have. I'll send you an email or go to the site you mentioned to sign up.

Thank you!

 

[peterg]

JSYL 2>23 The Chinese Text Project dictionary renders ''nan shan da jue dao wo mei qie'' as 'southern mountain great ape steals my charming concubine'.
Jue Chen pdf can be found here https://www.google.ie/?gws_rd=ssl#q=jue+chen+white+ape+steals+charming+concubine. A searchable paper.

Vivienne Lo's pdf is on this page https://www.google.ie/?gws_rd=ssl#q=05+lo+vivienne+lo+huangdi+hama+jing The paper is searchable.
The three legged crow occurs in a few yilin verses. The verse discussed in Lo's paper (p.72) seems to be 9>64.

For an in depth discussion of JSYL 33>33 see Heiner Fruehauf's ''A Classical Chinese Medicine Perspective on the Nature of Aging and Longevity'' (search google scholar 'fruehauf aging'): http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=heiner+fruehauf+aging&btnG=&as_sdt=1,5&as_sdtp= http://www.classicalchinesemedicine.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/fruehauf_aging.pdf

The share option at http://www.proquest.com/products-services/flow.html seems straightforward. Let me know if there are any problems.