Can you help me see the positive in 12 unchanging ?

[Trojina]

I like to think of hex 12 as a battery that is connected in the 'wrong' way to a circuit, upside down, plus and minus pole reversed. But this is the 'right' way if there is a current in the circuit (from another source) and you want to load the battery.
Reloading our batteries - that's why I associate hex 12 with 'flow reversal' and 'holiday'.

Aha i see, makes sense.

 

[megs]

Dear trojan

I have thought of replying to this before but too shy. I dont know if this is going to help in any way but the idea of stagnation so far as chinese medicine goes is SO easy to treat. Infact that is what acupuncture is best at. MOVING. Whether you go to an acupuncturist or not...look at the ways your life is stagnant..........then take that tentative step,be it doing something you've never done to helping out a wee bit more than you have done before............MOVE .in a way you usually dont do!

Megs

 

[Trojina]

Thanks Megs, thats another another angle it (never be too shy)

 

[megs]

....ok!

 

[noum]

Hi Trojan,

I know this is *way* after your initial query, but I read this thread after drawing unchanging 12 myself, and it made me think. I'm also a health practitioner (structural integration) who deals with chronic pain rather often in my practice, and I've seen many cases where stress or an unhealthy situation in the professional or personal life gets somatized into chronic pain. Anyway, I read LiSe's interpretation of 12 and it would fit a situation like that:

Hexagram 12
Pi
To say no

Say no to wrong people
No harvest for a noble one's determination
The great proceeds, the small comes up

The great image says:
Heaven and Earth do not interact: obstruction
The noble one holds back his virtue and avoids disaster
He does not allow honor by an official salary

Saying no seems a negative thing, but without the art of saying no one is a victim of everything that one passes on one’s road. But receiving a ‘no’, being denied something – even those are necessary things in life. They make strong, one learns there are borders and best of all: one learns to cope with them or to overcome them.
The right reaction to a ‘no’ or the power to overcome obstacles are the base of a strong character. Saying no is the prerequisite for individuality, for inner peace and for a rich and creative existence.
Sometimes you need a time of no. After a hectic time with worldy pursuits, you have to come back, and then 12 feels like a clear glass of water after a hot dusty day.

Does it make any sense in terms of the situation you were dealing with, that you had to say no to something in your life?

Hope you're better now than you were then,

Cheers,

Noum

 

[Trojina]

Thankyou ! Its so strange and very weird reading long gone threads...its like suddenly coming across a former life.

I think what you say has some bearing on the issue certainly, the mind and body being so intimately connected, but also I've got a better idea of the physical reasons for the problem now and have also put quite alot of work, treatment, exersize and all sorts into it since then.

My current position is this is something that I will always have to deal with in an active way, IOW it takes my active attention, I can't ignore it or wait for it to go away, I have to work with it, do exersizes and yoga everyday, some kind of exersize each day...but not too much for too long..and have to limit how much physical activity in general to do each day otherwise there a backlash

But overall i think i have a nice balance now , i think i understand where I am with it ..its like me and 'it' have reached an understanding...hey we could even be friends, because if i don't like something 'it' doesn't either

Looking back I'm wondering if the 12 was about a kind of sense of separation between me and my physical, almost not regarding it as mine. Now as i say i feel in a much better place with it. Theres certain limitations I have to work with but right now it feels really okay to work with them certainly prevents me ignoring my physical body..and having to pay attention to the body can be very grounding and calming sometimes

I couldn't figure how 12 unchanging offered any future hope, you know like how to improve etc. Now i guess i see it was possibly pointing to the state of the whole thing, the sense of separation between the me and my physical. Also I used to feel more afraid of it, like I'd be scared to really inhabit it as if it were alien. Now i go to the gym, which i wouldn't have done back then because i feel more confident I'll know when enough is enough, more confident that 'we' can work together, and that i can trust it to a degree with its own adaptibility. Having said that I owe much of this to my practitioner and others who advised, treated etc. I really did and still do need their help with this, it stemming basically from how i was put together....er when i was 'made'...but probably exacerbated by other factors such as you mentioned. So progress here has been a team effort with part of the team being parts of my self...if that makes sense

 

[rosada]

Certainly good to hear that things are better now, Trojan!
Looking at the trigrams for 12 I note that the receptive Earth is below and the creative Heaven is above which one could see as being a fertile field just waiting for a creative seed, but as the two trigrams move away from each other, Earth's direction is downward, Heaven's direction is upward, there is no seed, no link, thus the Standstill. But what is causing the standstill? Not some outer Obstruction, that's a whole different hexagram, but the lack of connection between Heaven and Earth. I think it's meaningful that you noted that you actually felt somehow there were parts of your body you couldn't INHABIT. So it does seem 12 really did describe the problem well.
The solution, or evolution, is also very interesting. Even though 12 didn't seem to offer a solution, things have improved. The image of 12 only says, "Fallback on your inner worth". Maybe that means "Don't give up." You note that it's taken a team effort to make a difference - exactly what is described in the next hexagram, 13.Fellowship with Men.
Wilhelm says of the sequence, "Things cannot be at a standstill forever, hence there follows the hexagram of the Fellowship with Men, and Fellowship with men finds love {and love heals}."
Not sure what my point is, I guess that I think it's meaningful that even when there were no change lines the situation did evolve and change. Standstill is followed by Fellowship with Men and that seems to be how things are working out in your experience.
Again, so glad to know you are taking care of yourself and getting results.
Rosada

 

[Trojina]

The solution, or evolution, is also very interesting. Even though 12 didn't seem to offer a solution, things have improved. The image of 12 only says, "Fallback on your inner worth". Maybe that means "Don't give up." You note that it's taken a team effort to make a difference - exactly what is described in the next hexagram, 13.Fellowship with Men.
Wilhelm says of the sequence, "Things cannot be at a standstill forever, hence there follows the hexagram of the Fellowship with Men, and Fellowship with men finds love {and love heals}."
Not sure what my point is, I guess that I think it's meaningful that even when there were no change lines the situation did evolve and change. Standstill is followed by Fellowship with Men and that seems to be how things are working out in your experience. Again, so glad to know you are taking care of yourself and getting results.
Rosada

yes i guess for me 12 unchanging seemed particularly static but there can be no situation that doesn't change . I wonder if when the hex is unchanging the following hex is especially significant ? I wouldn't have thought so but certainly this whole thing needed some 13. Interesting you picked out that quote from Wilhelm, I reigned in help from a number of sources, i told each what the other was doing and that was fine, no conflict, but i took whatever help i could get combined with using advice for what to do for myself

 

[steve]

I seem get this hex unchanging when things cant get much worse, I find stagnation one of the most frustrating things of all, but after some more experience the flip side nothing bad stays that way for ever thank the lord. I find 12 a time when you SHOULD reflect if you can actually clear your mind

Steve

 

[i2k7]

This is a really interesting thread because it raises the questions, does a hexagram merely reflect back to you and thus confirm/deny that you're viewing things accurately, does it always answer the question you've asked (I know that some here think that it does, some say not), does it always add to your understanding or sometimes just say 'yep, you've sussed it out right', is it enough to take the first hexagram as your answer or do you need to find the answer in the sequence of hexagrams and so on.

I also wonder if it points to our limitations. Someone versed in Chinese medical models would see stagnation and the heaven and earth not meeting as a diagnosis of the body's chi. The mention of communication being cut off could point to the nervous system, and/or the body's messages not reaching conscious awareness. And no doubt other things too.

Very interesting thread, thanks for raising it.