Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
hexagon said:Clarification required by a senior member:
1.What is the position of an unchanging hexagram?
2. Is the topmost changing hexagram of most significance? In other words, is the order chronological?
hexagon said:1.What is the position of an unchanging hexagram?
hexagon said:2. Is the topmost changing hexagram of most significance? In other words, is the order chronological?
heylise said:I got very often really good answers, with unchanging hexagrams, when I asked about something, or a situation, "what IS this". Not what I needed to do, or what would happen, just wanting to know what this actually was.
It gave me more insight in many other answers too. As if they are usually rather a description of a situation or time than an advice or whatever else. I did like that, as if Yi just tells you the facts, and leaves the rest to your own intelligence. It is what I would expect from an expert, when I ask about something. Telling me the facts in a clear way.
So that is what I see most of all in an unchanging hexagram. An image of this moment, of this situation, or whatever I asked about.
hexagon said:Clarification required by a senior member:
1.What is the position of an unchanging hexagram?
2. Is the topmost changing hexagram of most significance? In other words, is the order chronological?
hexagon said:Yes, I agree. The clarity of the question can lead to clarity in the answer. Asking simply WHAT IS provides a snapshot of what IS and allows us to move forward with clarity of purpose.
Laurie
bradford said:I'll concur with the others on the first one. For an illustration, if I remember any of my Fijian language, they have base words which they slow down into nouns with the prefix Na or speed up into verbs with the prefix Sa. So the prefix would distinguish between The Rain and Raining. "Unchanging" (never really any such thing) would be slowed down and more thing or state like than it would be the description of a change.
I don't think I understand the second question. Do you mean the final result after multiple lines change? If so, I would make that more important than the changing lines, which could contradict each other.
hexagon said:I appreciate your wanting clarification as another member tried to answer this question. I am asking about the changing lines of the first hexagram. Is there a chronological order with which to read them? If there are two changing lines such as 1 and 5, would I read 1 then read 5 as the final outcome? It puzzles me as there are often contradictory messages with the different changing lines.
I appreciate your efforts of designating the character to each line - it helps me understand how the position of each line is interrelated, but independent. Wow - a big piece of the puzzle is placed, even though some of what you say is over my head. The foundation has to be built before a basic understanding is recognized. I have work to do, but thanks for putting one of the bricks in place.lightofreason said:if you treat all changing lines as levels in a hierarchy then the lines relate to the level, not to each other. Thus line 1 relates to the general, 'worker' level and its problems, line 5 to the court position and its problems. These problems are eliciting change across the whole system but on their own are not responsible for it (OTOH if line 1 only was changing then it would be responsible for the change)
If you recognise the hierarchy as a non-nested form then each level is indepedent of the others and there are no 'contradictions' since all levels run in parallel not serial; it is the quality of the levels that give the hierarchy.
On the other hand, given a social hierarchy that IS dependent, the higher up you go the more influence on those below such that changing line 4 can dramatically influence all below it but not necessarily that above it (at best that immediately above it, no more)
Consider Dilts' hierarchy applied to the I Ching:
Spirituality - top line
Identity
Beliefs
Capabilities
Behaviour
Environment - bottom line
IF I change your identity (line 5) then all below is influenced, OTOH if I change your behaviour only interactions with the enviroment is influenced.
Finally - consider the approach where:
(1) each line comment is for that line.
(2)The lines are idependent and so cannot be taken as a pair of changing lines - THAT relationship demands its own change comment such that there are 56 comments missing per hexagram!
In the hierarchy, due to the different types you are looking for the 'best fit' - in some cases the hierarchy is non-nested and so lines are independent levels, in others (nested) there is dependencies of lines etc etc so given the toolkit of possible interpretations you let context decide.
Chris.
I understand your concern - and to be honest, Chris' first message was waaayyy over my head (page 1). However, it made me realize how in depth the IC can go, or not, if one prefers. I remain intrigued.sparhawk said:Sigh...
There goes a perfectly good newbie...
Chris, don't scare them. Hold the juice until they have accumulated at least 50 messages. By then, they'll deserve whatever comes their way... LOL!
L
hexagon said:I understand your concern - and to be honest, Chris' first message was waaayyy over my head (page 1). However, it made me realize how in depth the IC can go, or not, if one prefers. I remain intrigued.
hexagon said:Whooooaaa Nelly! I must emphasize my earlier rant that most of what Chris says is "waayyy over my head" and is. I dug a little deeper into some earlier postings and found the nucleus to some of Chris' outlook with the IC. I think I need a basic foundation before I can even think of contemplating an understanding the bottomless pit.
hexagon said:...To dig a little deeper, I don't understand why a changing line with an ominous tone ie: 'there will be evil" may result in a resulting positive hexagram.
hexagon said:If there are two changing lines such as 1 and 5, would I read 1 then read 5 as the final outcome? It puzzles me as there are often contradictory messages with the different changing lines.
hexagon said:Whooooaaa Nelly! I must emphasize my earlier rant that most of what Chris says is "waayyy over my head" and is. I dug a little deeper into some earlier postings and found the nucleus to some of Chris' outlook with the IC. I think I need a basic foundation before I can even think of contemplating an understanding the bottomless pit.
bradford said:Hexagon-
Do Not let this stuff confuse you.
Chris is nothing but a blowhard with his own private language
and some quasi-scientific jargon. It ain't all that meaningful.
He does not Want to be understood, because then he couldn't
baffle and bewilder you and thus impress you in this way.
This is a personality disorder, not wisdom.
miakoda said:I was disturbed by the rancor on this thread and asked the Yi Jing if there was anything to possibly pass along and got this: 41.4.6>54.
41.4: He decreases his affliction, dimininshes his faults. He acts quickly. There will be joy. No blame.
41.6: If one is increased without descreasing others, there is no blame. Perseverence brings good fortune. It is beneficial to have somewhere to go. One obtains servants, but no household.
About these lines, Balkin says: If you break the cycle of negative thoughts and strive to eliminate your faults, you will gain a fresh lease on life. To be increased without decreasing others means acting for the public good. (Yes, I know that some may say that this is random--but it's apt, isn't it?)
Actually, I've been following this thread just because it excluded us non-senior citizens at Clarity and it got my nose out of joint. I've been waiting for someone to stand up for those of us who are newbies to the site, but whose relationship to the Book of Changes is counted in decades. All of the contributors to the site should be respected. The point shouldn't be whether I or anyone else is excluded or who is right in their interpretation--Chris or Bradford or Lise, etc.--but that when we fall into struggles for power the way becomes lost.
Surely anger is not in the flow of the tao, is it?
Best,
Miakoda
willowfox said:"I was disturbed by the rancor on this thread and asked the Yi Jing if there was anything to possibly pass along and got this: 41.4.6>54.
Hex 41.4 the superior members must decrease their faults and then all will be well again.
Hex 41.6 there are some here who can be of benefit to everybody, but they must make sure that they don't bring about decrease to the new members by their attitude, the senior members are there for the public good.
Hex 54 these so called senior members should acccept a lowly position and not try to be high and mighty, otherwise misfortune occurs for the whole household. Nobody can get along with the big, brash members who think that they are special and deserve recognition in this forum at every post.
members who think that they are special and deserve recognition in this forum at every post.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).