Dark side of 11?

[candid]

Can anyone tell me if there is a dark side to 11? I've received it twice recently, neither time I 'felt' especially in a state of union, more in a state of dark unknowing.

 

[cheiron]

Hi Friend Candid

An offering to a master?

This Hex is, we know, viewed as highly positive?

So much so that the one of this time is the one who spreads this time of harmony and sense of connection.

I have never experienced it as negative in anyway?

If I really got into some extreme contortions I might say? oh, no ? Heaven is dominated by Earth which is above ? everything topsy-turvy ? some great evil? but frankly that ignores the Yijing completely and does not recognise the fact that the two are moving up and down appropriately to mingle?

Sorry friend ? in my book your totally stuffed ? you got a time of heaven on earth and have to live with it.

Good luck ? doubt you need it

More seriously ? Why do you seek a negative meaning ? What sense have you to lead you that way?

--Kevin

 

[candid]

Greetings, friend Kevin.

It isn't negative at all, just unknowing, sitting in darkness, not somber nor glad. Not righteous, powerful or in any way impressed or impressive.

Earlier this week, same exact thing. Both times, no change lines. Both times shadowy, dark, unenlightened, emotionless. More like the dark side of the moon, less like heaven on earth.

Always before there was a sense of awakeness, light and balance.

Hence my question.

Thanks for your kindness, as always.

C

 

[cheiron]

Candid

Re-reading the lines...

Sigh - Even line four is positive!

I received line six recently and was advised by a great authority that it merely referred to was a situation crumbling as that time came to an end and the new very positive time started... Of course their could be a warning there about changing ones ways to allow for the new situation... still no excess or ending implied - unusually good for the sixth line...

Still searching

--Kevin

 

[hilary]

Receiving #11 when you don't feel harmonious? Maybe a sign that there is less you need to do or make happen, more to co-operate with?

But 11 unchanging can certainly have darker meanings. Remember it was the answer to someone's question, 'Will there be war in Iraq?' All I can think is that the flow of cosmic energy it represents is something totally unrelated to our ideas of good or bad outcomes - on a different scale altogether. So the 'small' that 'goes' can be such things as job, health or home. (I've seen examples of all 3.) 54 is at the core of 11: if you try to ride the river down Mount Tai, staying afloat is a good ambition to have; choosing your direction may not be so realistic.

 

[cheiron]

Hilary and Candid

Time for me to reflect.

Respectful nod

--Kevin

 

[bradford_h]

Candid-
Not to be glib, but in theory, this Gua is exactly half "dark side",
but with the right perspective. Back to "half of the old growth forest is dying."
Also - can't cut the lily from its roots in the mud without killing it.
This can point to the difficulties involved in "integrating one's shadow side"
and in "grounding" one's spiritual truth, having nice ideas crash into real life.
There can also be problems with things being too easy,
no "character building" exercises, no challenge, no growth.
b

 

[candid]

Hilary... ahhh, something maybe like: don't rock the boat on the way down Mt. Tai? Yes, this feels correct. As does, less needed, and, something unrelated to previous ideas of good or bad outcomes.

How about something like a road sign in an area not yet driven?

I should also add that along with this 'egg' of experience, there was also 17, lines 5 and 6, which I received just before heading back to bed earlier this morning. As I drifted off to sleep, I asked the 'gods' to take me there, to the western mountains. Then when I woke, I again asked Yi, 'where am I?' and received 11.

I would really like to understand this.

Thank you both very much.

 

[candid]

Brad, valuable input, which does make sense to me. Not glib at all. Thanks so much.

absorbing..

 

[candid]

and now whenever I even think or read 'western mountain' I start crying for no apparent reason at all..

its not bad, to be clear on that. just unknown to me.

will let you know where this goes, as a case-in-point study.

 

[candid]

Notes:

This past week, it seemed as though everyone I came into contact with was hanging from a thin wire. Everywhere tense, disheveled. More so each consecutive day. I jokingly chalked it up to the full moon, which I understand is tonight. I don?t follow astrology and I have no idea what?s going on ?up there,? but I can?t discount it.

Early this morning I was called to settle a dispute where obvious abuse was taking place. It wasn?t central to my life and I went about it contained, so I don?t apply 11 to the settlement, which hasn?t been entirely resolved. It was after this when I drew in my engeries and threw 17. There was no real question, just something to keep me on track.

 

[dharma]

The Old Rusty Bucket

There is an old water bucket, lying out beside the fence, why anyone would keep it, to me just made no sense. The bottom is so rusty, no water will it hold, the handle is all twisted, the bucket is so old.

For many years I kept it, for the good that it had been, it used to serve a purpose, but that was way back then. Now it's just an eyesore, a useless piece of rusty tin, I thought that I would trash it, with other junk, and then... I heard the sound of thunder in the distant sky, and then a softer, sweeter sound, and this one was near by.

It was the sound of summer raindrops beating a rhythm like a drum, I listened in amazement and then began to hum. I noticed a sparrow taking refuge underneath a big green tree and he began to sing along, with the raindrops and with me.

I saw the leaves were dancing and flowers swayed, beautiful and bold as raindrops on an old rusty bucket made music to cheer the soul. I lifted my eyes toward Heaven and thanked My father there for teaching me this lesson, and now with you I share.

I was feeling just as useless as that bucket seemed to be. Just going through a season of thinking no one needed me. But then I was reminded that to give an encouraging word or a smile could mean the world to others and that makes my life worthwhile.

All things serve a purpose, so look around and consider again..
The things you thought were useless.. like the rusty bucket made of tin.

 

[candid]

Dharma, thank you very much.

 

[chrislofting]

IC+

hex 11

with perseverence (heaven lower) comes devotion (to others) (earth upper)

This reflects the COOPERATIVE focus. The COMPETITIVE focus is more fear over anger and so with/from anger comes fear.

we can generalise to reflect the context differences of from replacement comes coexistence - this reflects going beyond the neutralising of 12 to reflect potentials in the concept of harmonising... but...

As 12 is interpretable as anger expressed through fear so here in 11 we can interpret fear expressed through anger. That can reflect a focus on a DEMAND for ORDER; a FORCING of 'harmony' through the use of anger to elicit fear and so complience with that ordering.

(the 'vengeful god' etc)

Chris.

 

[jte]

"This past week, it seemed as though everyone I came into contact with was hanging from a thin wire. Everywhere tense, disheveled. More so each consecutive day."

I have gotten 11 occasionally at the end of difficult times. Times when I was feeling drained, worn out. Maybe it's saying "good job, you did what needed to be done."

"There can also be problems with things being too easy, no "character building" exercises, no challenge, no growth."

And sometimes those challenges and growth take a lot out of you, you just have to deal with things and that can take its toll. Just give yourself some good R&R if/when you have the opportunity.

- Jeff

P.S. Chung Fu!

- J

 

[candid]

Chris, if I apply what you've said to the issues I've been dealing with prior to receiving 17 and 11, it could make a great deal of sense. However outside of that I'm not clearly seeing anger or fear on my part. I just want to understand the time and learn from it. Or at least to rise above it. But it can apply to the conflicts I've been assisting with.

Jeff, you may be right, these things I've been intermediating may have taken more out of me than I realized, and what feels dark maybe nothing more then a let down, which is a subjective response to peace. Exhaustion in peace, or emptiness.

And this emptiness is what Dharma's lovely story is about. A sense of being used up, hung out to dry and put away wet.

This does help, and my appreciation to you all.

 

[cheiron]

Hi Candid

You may have had enough input... so do not let me intrude - please.

Did you by any chance receive 11.1? or line one amongst others?

If so I may have found something useful.

Warmly

--Kevin

 

[dobro p]

Candid -

This from Hilary rang true for me: "All I can think is that the flow of cosmic energy it represents is something totally unrelated to our ideas of good or bad outcomes - on a different scale altogether."

Yeah, for me 11's positive - heaven pervades earth, communicates itself to earth. But when you reported the sense of darkness, it reminded me of William James' book, the Varieties of Religious Experience, in which he points out more than once how a religious experience is not always a pleasant experience. Also, have you ever read Gopi Krishna's book called 'Kundalini'? The guy went through years of virtual hell before his transformation process ran its course, leaving him, according to his own report and that of others, enlightened. There are lots of other examples that I know of as well, and I'm willing to bore you with the booklist if you think it would be useful.

Being touched by heaven is a rough ride sometimes, is what I'm saying. But rough or othewise, it's the ride we're here to take, I believe.

 

[candid]

Hi Kevin,

Both 11's were unchanging. And it was this unchangingness that I connect the darkness to/with.

And you never intrude on me, Kevin.

Dobro,

Yeah, I can see what you're saying. It all holds true, I think. Probably the truest model to my thinking is in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Each encounter with a demon or angel led to a distressing experience, and the objective was to come to terms with each manifestation. That which appeared evil was often most benevolent, that which appeared benevolent could destroy your aspiration to be freed of illusion, leading to rebirth.

BTW, Dobro, quite awhile back I posted on two consecutive dreams I had. One was "White Dog" and the other was "Black Boar." The dreams came at a time of the distressful unconversion of my Christian faith. Scary stuff when your soul dangles over the fires of hell by a thread, and you knowingly bite through the string. Anyway, the black boar dream was terrifying; shook me to my bones! And by the end of the dream he was as tame as a poodle. I was free of fear.

I'm grateful for the experience. And really grateful I have a place where I can actually talk with others who are caring and interested in it.

C

 

[candid]

and there's still this most unspeakable awe when I think of the western mountain... tears is all I can do.. and to be honest, I don't know much about it other than Wilhelm 17.6

 

[sugarlobster]

hi candid,
i can't provide any learned contribution to this thread as my knowledge of the yi is extremely limited and shallow. but i can share my personal experience of 11 unchanging.
i've received it more than once when feeling at a loss, confused and in the dark. not necessarily a painful dark, but certainly an uncomfortable unknowing, that didn't feel like 11 at all. very puzzling.
and once, i received it when i was truly feeling miserable and distraught and on the verge of tears, and the yi answered 'peace', and it felt like the most soothing, caring, loving response i've ever had so far when consulting the oracle.

love,
xx sl

 

[cheiron]

Hi Candid

Thanks

Some thoughts to ponder or discard...

For me an unchanging hexagram can be a very positive thing... a stable time or energy... depends on the hexagram.

Following Stephen Karchers Total I Ching 2003

Hx. 11 is the inspirational energy in the pair 11:12.

Unchanging - does it indicate a steady inspiration of this 11 quality?

He notes that there is probably an age / karmic stage system embedded in the Yijing.

For the 60th decade ? Which I see you are now approaching - Hx.11 gives Hx 45:46

Your Western Mountains!

This is a time when one here might be, ?Gathering the energy for great works and ascending the sacred [Tai] Mountain to take their place among the ancestors.?

No I am not suggesting you are about to do your last great gig and then leave the stage for ever?.

46 - Ascending the Sacred Mountain, "Ascending shows a procession up the Sacred Mountain, particularly a journey through the old Zhou capital, the 'empty city?, up to the Twin Peaked Mountain that was the ancestral home of the Zhou Ancestors. This was the kings ancestral temple, where the spirit tablets of the Royal ancestors were housed. A journey up the mountain meant becoming part of the founders, at one with the great people...."

There was something resonant in your words? the backward glance at the taught wires and you yearning (?) for the Western Mountains. Is there a sense that these worldly things are less relevant to you just now? That it is time to make a journey inside?

Could it be that there is a connection growing in 11 for you and that to accept it you will have to loosen your committment to your practical or concrete world for a while?

If that were the case then there would appear to be a great development for you up in those mountains? but also the sadness of loss involved in turning your back on things to ascend them?

I have pondered what Hilary was saying about 11 and Iraq? Staying with the Heaven on Earth (simplistic) model? Bit like the Yi arriving to sort things out? Not so much dark but a setting right? Which might be uncomfortable at first? But not dark I think.

Advice: Just in case - A stout pair of boots and an acoustic guitar may be useful. Also hang one of those high tech. amp valves around your neck... How about a high pass one - talisman for the journey.

Travel well friend

--Kevin

Dobro - Echoing you - I wrote this, this morning and it seems we agree

 

[candid]

sugar... just smiles really BIG!

 

[candid]

Hi Kevin,

Everything you said about 11 feels true, especially ?age / karmic stage.? Its like some right of passage or something.

This continues with your comments about the western mountain. There is sadness leaving ?something? behind. And by the way, if it means my last gig here, that?s cool. If not, that?s cool too. Its almost beside the point now. I have no death wish because there?s nothing to escape from. I have no live wish because there?s nothing to live for. And please don?t interpret that as defeatism, it isn?t. I?ve seen the illusion and it is me. And that?s cool too. You no doubt know I?ve considered the possible ramifications of these readings regarding mortality.

And I can?t wear boots, they scrunch my feet. But a good pair of climbing shoes could be useful.

Thanks Kev.

 

[cheiron]

Candid

Defeatism?

No

Sounds more like enlightenment to me.

I honour you

--Kevin

 

[candid]

aww shucks, Kevin.. I don't anything about enlightenment, unless that means knowing you don't know anything.

 

[cheiron]

Candid

LOL

errm - I think thats what that dood Budha said

Been thinking some more - your post sounds like an unmoving hx. Just being and all let go...

Sounds like you are on the way of the time to me.

I wish you the peace that will come along with those other gifts you will find on Mount T'ai.

--Kevin

 

[tashij]

....lol kevin, uhhh, maybe more in line w/ Socrates than the Buddha. ? ... Peace to Candid as well. "Bittersweet" is how Pema Chodron describes the wisdom she learned form her beloved teacher, Chogyam Trungpa. Reminder that the beauty of line 5 in 11 is bittersweet. Heaven and earth to work well together, something is given up. best wishes.
tash

 

[candid]

just being and let it go... yup

Bittersweet is my favorite, Tash. Add a maraschino cherry and, Mmmuah!

 

[cheiron]

Tash

{blush}

I don't know my Budha from my Socrates...

No, I am not well read - I should get out more.

You wouldn't like to write a few words would you?

Might be timely... any chance?

'cos

Hi Candid

Move over friend - looks like I am comming to join you.

Someone has just suggested something to me... So I asked the Yi, "If I say yes then what will the nature of the outcome be?"

Hx.11

hmmm.

--Kevin