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Discovery At Casino

jzy369

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Dear Friends:

Two days ago I drove back home for Xmas and spent a night at Reno, NV. Circus Circus was US$29/nt., cheaper than Motel 6.

After a nice buffet dinner, I did an experiment: applying IC to roulette table. Before you make a judgement on this, I want to declare a couple things:
1. I believe IC was not written to work for "non-righteous" intents. I hold such believe this because the entire IC text is all about steering human to the righteous path, no regrets, etc, and I believe IC's accuracy is built up over the ages while applying to "righteous causes, not otherwise. "Gambling, including sports gambling, would be considered "non-righteous" in my book.
2. I did not bet a single penny on the roulette table. I stood next to the table to conduct my "experiment".

So I asked IC "what if I bet $5 on the red in this next round", and "what if I bet $5 on black in this next round". Result IC is incredibly INACCURATE!" So inaccurate I think the statistics over 20+ rounds is almost 85%+ opposite!

My goal is not to find out a system that can beat the roulette table. This experiment was to partially verify my hypothesis that IC is so accurate because so many people "believe" it is accurate on righteous causes over the thousands of years. It is the "human believe" that made IC accurate, not because IC contains objective math formula that decribes event occurances regardless of the human motives. In another word, IC's accuracy is somewhat tied to the subject's righteous intent...or not?

I would appreciate if you can share your experiences and comments on this kind of matter.
 

pocossin

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While making this test, were you able to sense changes in the atmosphere (vibrations, aura, ambience) of the casino?
 
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cjgait

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In my view the approach you were taking to the casino wheel was very similar to the Shang Dynasty approach to divination (and the Urim and Thummim in ancient Israel). Yes/no answers in series for real life phenomena. As your experiment showed, it doesn't work.

The Chinese established that a long, long time ago, essentially during the rule of the Zhou, the period in which the Yi was written. The Yi differed from Shang turtle shell divination. For the Shang oracle bone method (and the practice continued as late as the Han) a turtle plastron or ox shoulder bone was inscribed and heat cracks made to form in it for the answer. The Yi was used to interpret milfoil divination (yarrow stalks). Thus the mathematics of it was more complex to start out with. The Shang's approach was yes/no/maybe with multiple consultations to get a quorum. The Yi produces one answer, with changing lines reduced by a mathematical formula to give a single text.

The texts of the Shang and Zhou approaches differ as well. Although there are many elements in common (divining tags like fortunate, ominous, etc. and other terms), the Shang approach comes back to asking an outside entity (the Ancestors) for an answer and for intervention. Thus it represented a 'performative utterance', somewhere between a question, a prayer and a spell. The Yi, on the other hand, clears up doubts. It helps a person surf the waves of change by opening up a channel to an internalized version of those 'Ancestors'; what we moderns call the subconscious.

In conclusion, the oracle bone approach would not work on this because it is bad science. The Yi approach is certainly useful, but only to tell you about whether gambling is really a good idea in your current situation, how you can find an alternative to it if you are trying to use it to make money, etc., etc., with the answer varying according to the state of the universe at the moment you ask and who you are.
 

jzy369

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While making this test, were you able to sense changes in the atmosphere (vibrations, aura, ambience) of the casino?

My state of mind was kind of "busy" during that time stretch, because there is only a limited time in-between each round. Duing that time break, I have to formulate my question, do the coin toss on my smart phone, look up my text reference, and come up with a quick reading.

I have chance to re-do this experiment in the near future. How would you suggest I can better take vibration, ambience, aura into account in such experiment? I can give myself more time in between by testing every other round. Thanks.
 

jzy369

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cjgait:

I got your point about Shang method, boardering "vodoo" or "wigi board". Even if it does work, I would shy away from using it as its side effect could be more than I am willing to accept.

In conclusion, the oracle bone approach would not work on this because it is bad science. The Yi approach is certainly useful, but only to tell you about whether gambling is really a good idea in your current situation, how you can find an alternative to it if you are trying to use it to make money, etc., etc., with the answer varying according to the state of the universe at the moment you ask and who you are.

Per your experience and understanding, if I structure my unquiries in form of "what will occur to my well being...", will my intention and belief afect the accuracy of my readings?

One piece of information I need to supply. I read my result by making inferences from the text I got. For example, if I asked "...bet on red...", and got 20-2,3-57. 20-3 contains a very neutral text, and 20 is a very neutral hex. 57-2 has some favorable lines in the text, so overall the answer is "favorable". But maybe such "stretchy interpretation" could be the problem as well. You stated above:

"...The Yi produces one answer, with changing lines reduced by a mathematical formula to give a single text."

Could you elaborate on this maybe point me to some reference materials? Thank you.
 
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cjgait

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On the method for getting a single text:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?3413-Nanjing-Method
and
http://www.russellcottrell.com/VirtualYarrowStalks/NanjingiRules.htm

On the efficacy of using the Yi Jing to somehow defeat the laws of probability in a casino...I don't think that's possible. Consulting the Yi is a way to get in touch with your subconscious and think outside the box in which we all enclose our minds. So it doesn't have access to anything that your mind doesn't already know. It just lets you get at the parts that aren't rationally and immediately accessible. So you would have to know, subconsciously, what the next random event was going to be, red or black, to be able to predict. That's not possible under our current understanding of the way the universe works, so using the Yi to get that result is impossible. It might tell you, for instance, that the croupier is cheating because you could see a 'tell', but only deep down, not in the rational level of your brain. It could tell a person that they should be making house payments, not gambling, etc., etc. things that we already know but, for some reason 'can't get through our head'. In those cases the Yi is a powerful and wondrous tool; the first AI program humans invented and the first 'augmentation' program, something that allows us to add to our natural abilities, in this case letting us tap into parts of the abilities that are not normally accessible.

On favorable and unfavorable texts, there are actually some charts in Yi Jing books I've seen that map out the number of favorable texts based on the 'divining tags', things like 'fortunate', 'misfortune', 'no blame', etc. At one point I plugged numbers into a spreadsheet for each judgement and line to see what the overall average is for the Yi. It's a bit subjective, as you say, but the result was interesting. It was just slightly favorable overall. 50.0x (I forget the exact number). To me that is a very important lesson on both the nature of a well crafted oracle (and there is no oracle better crafted than the Yi), and the nature of the universe. It's off balance, but almost balanced, with a positive spin. If all the readings are favorable (like fortune cookies) it doesn't work. If too many readings are negative, it won't work. But if it's in perfect positive/negative balance it, the oracle or the universe, won't work because it will settle into a state of stasis. Every snowflake is unique because it is flawed. Every crystal in the world is flawed. Without that it would be perfect...and worse than dead. It would be unchanging, not part of the flow. So the universe, like the Yi, has a very slight positive spin that keeps things rolling.

cjgait:

I got your point about Shang method, boardering "vodoo" or "wigi board". Even if it does work, I would shy away from using it as its side effect could be more than I am willing to accept.



Per your experience and understanding, if I structure my unquiries in form of "what will occur to my well being...", will my intention and belief afect the accuracy of my readings?

One piece of information I need to supply. I read my result by making inferences from the text I got. For example, if I asked "...bet on red...", and got 20-2,3-57. 20-3 contains a very neutral text, and 20 is a very neutral hex. 57-2 has some favorable lines in the text, so overall the answer is "favorable". But maybe such "stretchy interpretation" could be the problem as well. You stated above:

"...The Yi produces one answer, with changing lines reduced by a mathematical formula to give a single text."

Could you elaborate on this maybe point me to some reference materials? Thank you.
 

pocossin

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I have chance to re-do this experiment in the near future. How would you suggest I can better take vibration, ambience, aura into account in such experiment?

Divination works by consulting the spirits. What is the spirit (qi) of the house? If the spirit of the house is strong, it does not favor you. You are in a lion's den. If the spirit of the house is weak, then you are favored. Are there signs of disorder -- out of order signs on slot machines, litter on the floor, stains on the carpet, too smokey an atmosphere, dust anywhere, spots on windows and mirrors? These are signs of decay and weakness. How neat, alert, and attentive are personnel? Too many shills? Does the building show age? All this can be taken in in a glance. It doesn't take time. You should feel it the moment you approach the building. Once you have a feel for the situation, if there is time for further deliberation, which hexagram portrays it, and which hexagram portrays the outcome? If you have internalized the Yi, you do not need to consult a smart phone.

Of course, odds in the long run favor the house, but an aesthetic, psychological appraisal can give you an edge. I had a distant relative whom I met when she was aged and disabled. She could speak only in a whisper, but she was well worth listening to. She told me that she had bet on horses, and I asked how much did she lose. She said that she had won and her companions lost all their money and she paid their way home. I asked what was her secret of winning, and she told me she judged by the horses, whether or not they were frisky and how they held their heads. That is, she judged the spirit of the horse and bet accordingly.
 

rosada

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The I Ching seems to act like a giant memory file where all the experiences of the past are recorded and made accessible. This would mean predictions for the future can only be assumptions based on past experiences. So as an oracle for gambling I guess the I Ching can only give us the odds but as roulette is not based on past experience it wouldn't be able to help.

Particularly line 4, which is considered to be the position of the teacher or the advisor to the ruler, line 5, illustrates how if there is no previous experience the I Ching cannot help because there is no guide or teacher to call on. The earlier hexagrams where seemingly the seeker hasn't yet accumulated much experience often have a fourth line that says no guidance is available thus illustrating the difficulties of having no past experience:

1.4 The Creative has no previous experience so no guide. The Dragon wavering over the depths must decide for himself to go higher or stay where he is.
2.4 The Receptive has no guide - a tied up sack, no blame, no praise.
4.4 The Fool starting out for the first time is totally lost by line 4.
and so forth.
So thus we see the I Ching can not predict the future but can only help us make informed decisions based on humanities' past experience.
 

rosada

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It might be interesting to ask the I Ching "What can I do to increase my gambling luck?"
 
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sooo

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It might be interesting to ask the I Ching "What can I do to increase my gambling luck?"

Having lived in Reno for 14 years and currently only a stone's throw from Laughlin, and had my first gambling experience at the prestigious Carib Hilton, I believe I can answer that question. Don't gamble other than as an expenditure for the entertainment value. Whether the casino's carpets are stained and mirrors are smudged and air is as stale as yesterday's coffee, or whether it is bright and shiny with colorful and clean carpets, makes no difference. The house is favored to win, always. Gambling should be seen only as a form of entertainment. You can go to a show, have a nice dinner, sleep in a nice room, and blow a hundred at the tables, all in twelve hours or less, for around $200. You expect to pay for the entertainment, and as long as you stay realistic and set hard limits of how much you're willing to spend, you can't lose. If you happen to hit it big, you can keep it or play it back to the house; no harm, no foul either way. I would guess Yi's answer would be 60, but I wouldn't bet on it.
 

rosada

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I just asked, "What can I do to improve my gambling luck?"
I received 15. Modesty, which in this case I think is a similar message to 60. Limitation.
 
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sooo

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A good case for hedging the bet in roulette, though not in poker or blackjack. Slot machines do the hedging for you since they're not all or nothing.
 

pocossin

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I just asked, "What can I do to improve my gambling luck?"
I received 15. Modesty, which in this case I think is a similar message to 60. Limitation.

To me the message suggests chicken foot soup before gambling.
 

jzy369

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So thus we see the I Ching can not predict the future but can only help us make informed decisions based on humanities' past experience.

Rosada:

What do you think of IC's advices to us when we ask "what if I do this...", is that an aspect of predicting the future, which is more like "validating a future possibility" than actual predicting it?

I believe we all benefitted greatly from this kind of "what if..." questioning. Maybe "predicting the future" can be structured into "free will on a set of possible outcome"...
 

jzy369

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jzy, here are a few hints:
http://www.dailygrail.com/Mind-Myst...e-ESP-Make-Thousands-Dollars-the-Stock-Market

Good luck on your journey down the rabbit hole. Just please be sure to learn about both aspects - gaming and the Yi. It does work (~80%) but you do need to have extreme discipline to be able to benefit.

1-eleven:

Thanks for the article! It is great to know that there were researches in this field that shows successful result.

In my opinion, being able to forecast market is NOT "non-righteous". It can actually have more positive contribution to the world peace. Stamping out unknown can lessen fear, anxiety, and potential gains (greed) in the current capitalistic mechanism. Growth can be more genuine, stable, and more even for all. Just look at the stupid gyrations, instability and fear caused by recent oil price flunctuation. Okay, making some money for me and my family is a benefit, but help invoke human's capability can have bigger implication.

With this said, my attitude toward market forecast is different than roulette in Reno. My own experiment in this area had result in some initial positive results. I found a couple of key items:

1. The timing play is hard, just like this article describes. One can lose money even if the forecast was cirrect.
2. It works best when I have understanding of the underlying company, or have researched in the company's fundamentals, and give myself a few months time.

Comparing the roulette experiment to forecast stocks, I find a few key differences:

1. The Casino environment is not as comfortable, my concentration may be affected;
2. My subconcious already know the game is in house's favor. In stocks, since I did my fundamental research, the odds can actually be in my advantage.
3. My questions for company stocks are usually more intelligent, frequently may be related to some "catalyst". In roulette, the questions are simple but answers are frequently ambiguous to interpret.

I wlecome your thoughts on these.
 

1eleven

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1-eleven:
Comparing the roulette experiment to forecast stocks, I find a few key differences:

1. The Casino environment is not as comfortable, my concentration may be affected;
2. My subconcious already know the game is in house's favor. In stocks, since I did my fundamental research, the odds can actually be in my advantage.
3. My questions for company stocks are usually more intelligent, frequently may be related to some "catalyst". In roulette, the questions are simple but answers are frequently ambiguous to interpret.

I wlecome your thoughts on these.

1. What if you did the work prior to entering the casino? This is where discipline comes in to play. When I was doing these experiments I would walk in and place 1 or 2 (at most) wagers and leave. Win or lose. Have a plan, work the plan.
2. Your research doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Has your subconscious been wrong in the past?
3. Ok? Ask better questions.
 

rosada

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Just wanted to insert a comment here that I concur with Tom's idea that judging the feel of the casino - the sense of life or lack of it - and comparing that to one's own sense of vitality at the moment can give meaningful info. Although it's true as Bruce says that the odds are over all in the house's favor, this does not tell how any one individual bet will turn out and sometimes when a person is feeling really strong it seems they can actually "read" the energies and choose the winning slot machine or even when they know nothing about the game a beginner can win at cards. I know that ultimately the house always wins but I just wanted to say that I've experienced how sometimes trusting feelings pays off.
Nothing beats luck and absolutely nothing can beat dumb luck!
 

1eleven

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There's an interesting book called Feng Shui, Craps and Superstitions if you're interested in the energy at the tables and the casino layouts/atmosphere.

Get in and get out with your profit.
 

jzy369

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Reading 1-eleven, rosada, and pocosin's replies, I found none of you think the "belief" (conscious or sub conscious) prior to entering the experiment matters to the IC reading. In another word, each IC reading is more or less independent from our "belief system". However, per pocossin and rosada, being sensitive at the moment about our conscious relationship to the environment, (aura, atmosphere, vitality...) COULD be a factor in this kind of experiment. The emphasis would then be on how to "optimize" such self-environment relationship to the max advantage.

Reflecting on my own experience, IC does seem quite objective, regardless of my underlying belief. So my belief of righteous or not may not matter that much. I wonder if you agree with this point.

For the past few months, I actually had some very positive data regarding company equity stocks in the market. Like I said, when putting money in practice, unexpected factors emerged but they are manageable. In comparison, this casino experiment was so out-of-wack.
 

pocossin

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To me the message suggests chicken foot soup before gambling.

The first character of 15.2 and 15.6 is 鳴 (ming2) of which Uncle Hanzi says, "said of birds - to sing / to chirp / to warble /said of cocks - to crow / the notes of birds / to make sounds / to sound". Blofeld translates it as "crows the cock". The visual pattern of hexagram 15 is a capital H : below are the two feet of the cock and above are the head and tail feathers. Supposing that correlative thinking improves luck, What aspect of a cock is correlative to a horse race? The feet.
 
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sooo

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I know that ultimately the house always wins but I just wanted to say that I've experienced how sometimes trusting feelings pays off.

That "I'm feeling lucky" or "I feel this machine is going to payoff tonight" is exactly what the house relies on and creates through their atmospheric conditions. Believe me, they have it down to a science. And it's the bigger and fancier "feeling" ones that can afford continuous renovations to maintain that lucky feeling. I never learned all of the psychological nuances of their craft, but such things as "free drinks" while you are playing, cheap all-you-can-eat buffets, mirrors everywhere, and not a clock to be found, not even in their hotel rooms, are all part of creating that ethereal timeless feeling, plus endless use of the word "FREE", and of course the very loud ringing and clanging and flashing police roof type lights, and loud discharge of coins (cha-ching!) of winning machines give the impression that people are always winning - it excites the part of the brain that says "I'm feeling lucky".

There are winners however. They are the card counters, those with remarkable skills to memorize the cards which have been already played with a deck, and mentally calculate the odds in their favor. This has little to do with luck. It's a difficult skill. An ex landlord of mine has been banned from every major casino in Reno, Laughlin and Vegas, and their franchises in smaller communities. along with a list of other card counters. They retain the right to simply boot a card counter out the door and refuse further entry, even though it's not technically illegal to count cards. Their enormous tax contributions and under the table deals make the rules. There are manned and mechanized cameras everywhere throughout the casino, and security is more sophisticated the nicer and luckier the created atmosphere is. When anyone gets too lucky, they watch every move, and know every trick to beat the house there is, including and especially the card counting. It's simple, win too much, too often, and out you go.

These wealthy establishments don't build their magical fairytale feeling facades by losing.

In the local worker bee parts of town, there are the blue collar casinos. The holes in the carpet and dingy atmospheres are also intentional. The payoffs are smaller, and the penny, nickel and quarter slots are their bread and butter. Still the free beverages, alcohol and otherwise, are always on the house, as are cheap eats. Breakfast is always their most popular meals: biscuits and gravy and enough coffee to wake to you to play just one more chance at a winning streak, and of course local paycheck cashing service is always provided.

Two relatives of mine loved to gamble when visiting: my wonderful mother-in-law, who played the machines purely for the sport and entertainment, and my card playing brother-in-law, who was skilled in any game of cards, and won more often than lost, but not because of luck, dumb or otherwise. He never wasted money on slots, always played at the blackjack and poker tables, and he was good at it.

In my 14 years in Reno, I came away feeling lucky at losing only around 20% of my occasional betting, because of that occasional nice payoff, which served to stimulate my brain to tell me that if I only play another $20, I'd win, because I'm on a lucky streak. There's no luck. It's simple psychology and math. It was a common sight to see desperate couples sitting on the curbs with their signs, trying to beg their way back home; not even money to gas up their cars, assuming they still had one to drive. Sad really. The family who rented a nice house I lived in for 9 years, who traveled up from Texas with their life savings and promises of steady employment, left very early for back home, broke, because the husband felt lucky; just one more time, he could feel it in his bones. Lucky for me though.
 

jzy369

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Just one additional note about "luck". The entire IC text is kind of teaching us how to be luckier: be righteous, steering toward no regret, avoid misfortunes. Reflecing on my own life experience, I did feel luckier when I was moving forward righteously and encountered more misfortune when otherwise. Thus being righteous is an important part of my belief.

When I conduct this experiment, I was testing out how IC accuracy correlates to righteousness. According to your responses, righteousness or not may not matter that much. I will have to think about this and digest.
 

Trojina

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Just one additional note about "luck". The entire IC text is kind of teaching us how to be luckier: be righteous, steering toward no regret, avoid misfortunes. Reflecing on my own life experience, I did feel luckier when I was moving forward righteously and encountered more misfortune when otherwise. Thus being righteous is an important part of my belief.

When I conduct this experiment, I was testing out how IC accuracy correlates to righteousness. According to your responses, righteousness or not may not matter that much. I will have to think about this and digest.

jz is there any chance you ask Hilary for a more human kind of name...it is hard to call you jz369.

Anyway I just want to give you my view here but I cannot engage much in discussion right now as I have a wrist injury....so I just give my view and can't respond much, trying to mimimize typing...and I haven't read all the the thread and am not answering just in terms of the gambling question

....but


I agree that what you term 'righteousness' is an absolutely fundamental part of consultation of the oracle. Afterall I Ching serves us as a guide and teacher....and friend...er and friend with a sense of humour. I think how you mean 'righteousness' is the idea that Yi leads us to truth and growth and good in all situations. In all situations we ask of it is not only our own profit that counts but also how our place in things interacts and impacts on other things. situations , people.

But do we always know what is 'righteous' in a situation ? Not always. People can do bad things for good reasons. There is some well known example from some old moral philosophy text book I had of a man who cannot afford medicine who robs a pharmacy to get drugs for his sick child. The question is whether the man is right or wrong to do this ? I think Yi is always in tune with the truth of the highest good in the situation. It's value to us is we can't always see that truth and Yi acts as a guide...(depending on how we interpret of course) I think Yi helps us uncover the direction of what you call 'righteousness', 'flow' it might called, but that we cannot always by ourselves judge what that is.

So society may judge gambling as a bad thing but perhaps for some people in some situations it is a good thing ? There is no fixed ethical stance in Yi but there is always a connection to truth, love, wholeness IMO.

I for one would not even consider using Yi as an oracle if I did not think this was so. I am not interested in using a robotic oracle that will just give me what I want when I want it all the time. I regard Yi as the vehicle of higher intelligence, higher being in a sense, which is why I consult. However that doesn't mean I can't bring little mundane issues to it or ask about personal profit in situations because in my experience I can...but I can never imagine Yi is only for maximum profit.

Personally I cannot understand why people would consult for the purpose of gambling since the point of gambling is to take a chance, so why try to find out beforehand....and of course the Yi is about so much more than bringing anyone maximum financial profit. Yet that does not mean that seeking maximum financial profit is wrong because we need money to live !

I just wanted to convey that I feel the same as you do and that it is an important aspect of consulting to me too. Yi is not a robot programmed to bring us all we want..We do consult with a greater intelligence that guides us. But we start consulting from where we are right now. We start consulting from what we want right now, what we perceive to be important. There is nowhere else to start from. So if someone needs to make fast money, questions to Yi about it may not be 'unrighteous' as such and answers may be very apt.


However as I wrote in my personal blog in CC I do think we can rarely leave our selves out of an answer. Our selves will be what the Yi addresses. When people start to think they can manipulate events and leave themselves out of the equation, out of the answer, then I see they simply tend to misunderstand a lot. If, as a silly example, I ask about a book in the library I want, I might get an answer that seems to refer to the book, just the book...as if the answer were only about the book. However I will be in there somewhere too since the consciousness of the person asking is what Yi's answers always address in one way or another.
 
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Trojina

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To take an extreme example. If Yi were a robot oracle then if someone asked how best to murder someone can it be imagined Yi would issue precise advise about the best way to complete the killing ?

Well if Yi were a robot oracle then it would. If Yi were Yi as it is then I would say I cannot predict what it might say since it would depend upon the circumstances of the question. Murder comes to mind as the most immoral act but surely there are times when it may even be 'righteous' ? Afterall there are plenty of battles in Yi between the Shang and the Zhou and in battles people get killed for the sake of the overall goal.

Likewise is gambling 'righteous' or 'unrighteous' ? It all depends on the circumstances and the motives I suppose. Mostly in gambling the one who gets hurt most is the gambler and maybe his family but gambling itself is only playing a game of chance for the sake of chance profit. As taking a chance is part of the thrill why would anyone consult about it ? I don't know I don't gamble. Perhaps I should as I tend to be lucky in games of chance.
 
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sooo

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As with morality, I don't quite know how I feel or think about righteousness. Surely the lion will lie down with the lamb when she eats him.

I see great danger in striving for righteousness, because if one succeeds, it inevitably leads to self-righteousness, and I can think of nothing as unrighteous.
 
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sooo

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Who is the righteous?

Galileo_facing_the_Roman_Inquisition.jpg

Galileo facing the Roman Inquisition
 
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cjgait

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For an interesting view of morality and the Yi see the incident in the Zuo Zhuan in which an exiled noblewoman consults the Yi, then disagrees with the auspicious reading the professional diviner provided on moral grounds. You can find one version of it here, pp 7 -8:

http://www.uri.edu/iaics/content/2006v15n1/01%20Xiaosui%20Xiao.pdf"]Yijing: A Self-Circulating and Self-Justified Chinese Cultural Discourse , by Xiaosui Xiao:

And here: The same tale, from the Zuo Zhuan, Duke Xiangm year 9, from a much-cited paper by Kidder Smith Jr.:

Zhouyi Interpretation from Accounts in the Zuozhuan, pp. 435 - 438.

For a well done and in depth survey of ming (fate) in Chinese philosophy see

Magnitude Of Ming: Command, Allotment, And Fate In Chinese Culture, edited by Christopher Lupke.

On the morality of using the Yi for predicting gambling results, it's a non-sequitur. It isn't possible to predict results in a non-crooked game of chance, so the Yi Jing can't predict it. It only does things that are possible for a human mind since that is the engine it uses to produce readings. And by it...I mean you. There is no "Yi' outside the mind of the diviner any more than there were disembodied spirits that the ancients consulted with the shells and bones. There are no gods or spirits that exist independently of the mind of man, or at least none whose existence has been demonstrated.
 

jzy369

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jz is there any chance you ask Hilary for a more human kind of name...it is hard to call you jz369.

Trojina:

Sorry for the late reply, had been on a family trip.

My name is John. I make a stable living from my real estate biz, so I can spend time to study IC. Please don't mind if I continue to solicit your views and experience as I have a strong inner drive wanting to get to the "bottom" of this wonderfully beneficial wisdom.
 

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