Dysfunctional

[tashij]

no, 15 to 45....youre good with the lines candid, maybe you can explain them. it's up to tali, though, if she wants to fly with this reading or not.

 

[madversity]

hi tashij. thank u for your kind letter and more important thing is i meant it. as for life, i dont think true knowledge is in the reach of man and were meant to proceed on trust faith and belief alone. when u say rescued, i want to ask u from what. what have u come to c as it u should b saved? seems like its U.

i believe we were created with the abilities to think, feel and reason. oh yes and at least some degree of choice. none of these is in us if we werent meant to relate and work with it. reason and emotion rnt opposites, theyre just dif.

dont fear your imbalance and fear. first acknowledge them. dont judge, just b aware of there presense. now u can toss the coins as much as u like but it will not replace the universal need of humans to make choices and act on them. no one knows what will b, damn, few ppl know whats happening right now, if theyre life depended on it.

u will toss until u no longer feel the necessity to ask what will b. i could cjoke on a pita tonight...so. i believe our birth and death r forset, so waht good will fretting help. i just wish for us all that when r time comes it will b a swift and painless death.

anyway i dont know what issues u r obsessing about, but dont worry about the Yi, it has the patience of a wise parent and forsees your continuous growth.

its not about being saved from "evil", the devil isnt evil, he is temptation. and man has always been into shortcuts and bs.

you r a sensitive and caring person. u dont need to b saved, u need to b nicer to yourself....

hi val, i think he meant 15 to 45. the 8 seems like a typo. i hope to join u and candid in your new thread, im just so freakn slow. take care. tali. tanks.

 

[candid]

Sorry Tash and Tali, I mistook the *****8** for the 8 instead of an accidental cap being off.

Its not an altogether different message however. The lines as I read them all speak to the actualization of one's words and ideals. Kind of an "actions speak louder than words" idea. Or more gently, "actions speak for themselves".

The relating 45 also expresses similarity to 8, only rather than 'keeping it together', more of a 'getting it together'. The good news is, there are forces in affect that are drawing things and people together around Tali. The not-so-good news is, it includes challenges Tali may or may not be prepared for. Hence the warning: fasten your seat belt.

C

 

[cheiron]

Hi Tali

Thank you for bringing such wisdom and insight here.

Leastways I feel the truth in your words.

The only thing I might differ on is about knowing the future? I think it is possible to know this? but it is a pointless thing? for me it is more important to know the nature of the present and how I might try to centre myself in it.

Living in the modern world of action I also try to see what ways I can be in that time to try to bring about actions and events which are constructive.

Warmly

--Kevin

 

[tashij]

tali i hope you are going to stick around here. there are the best readers and students of the Yi here. everything you sid to me just tears the layers off --takes the cotton out - whatever you want to call it. yeah, i do want to be saved from myself. exactly correct. i heard it put like this: no central point of identification any more. it's like the mind gets blown, and the part that thinks "i" isnt relevant anymore. so i could be in heaven or hell, but the identification would not be with this central grasping thing trying to make itself continue. rising and extinguishing in every moment would be fearless. then if one can help, one helps, if one cant help, one cant help and there is no loss or gain. but everything you said is so powerful; i think animals must really feel your power. lise says she can feel when people have chi, i think you have it. compassionate person. you are.

i hope you stick around and writie whenever youfeel like it. i hope hilary does a reading for you, she is just the best. maybe she will throw and interpret for you, becausse as i said, i dont know if the 15 to 45 was for me or you.

for me already you have been a true friend. i wish you all the best. maybe you could go to the whitney program in nyc, out of the whitney museum. a program for critcal thought for artists. and thinkers. you certainly dont have to be cut and dried to go there.

 

[cheiron]

Hi

Tali would like help with the following question:

"How can I move my life on to more solid ground?"

Casting 11.4.5 > 43

Thanks

--Kevin

 

[cheiron]

Sorry that was a typo...

The question Tali is asking is:

"How do I move my life onto more solid ground?"

--Kevin

 

[cheiron]

Hi Tali

Well it seems I will have to open this up? I hope other folk will come and add the wisdom and learning which is here at Clarity in abundance.

Using Karcher 2002 (Which builds on Ritsema Karcher)

T?ai ? Pervading (and by other authors it is called Peace)

Spread and reach everywhere; communicate; prosperous; abundant; flowering connection.

Mount T?ai in Eastern China was a sacred mountain believed to connect heaven and earth. It was the place where offerings were made to bring harmony between the people and the great spirits.

Pervading describes a time of influx of energy which brings flowering and prosperity.

?What is unimportant is departing, along with the necessity to be small?. The time that is coming offers you a chance to develop your fundamental ideas. It generates meaning and good fortune by releasing transformative energy.?


Image: This is a time of growth and fruition.

The outer world of the upper trigram is that of Field or Earth? this is indicative of an outer world situation which is receptive; nurturing and gestative of people things and ideas.

The inner world of the lower trigram is that of Ch?ien? the untiring creative force? here indicating an inner personal world or disposition which is clear, creative and inspiring.

Together they form a dynamic pair with the Outer receptive moving downwards to greet the rising inner creative. The inner creative is received by the outer world which is receptive and which enfolds this energy bringing forth fruit.

It is a time of harmony and abundance.

The nuclear hexagram or hidden kernel of potential is Hx 54 ? ?Pervading and spreading in all directions leads the maiden to the place where she belongs.?

The Contrasted definition from the 10th Wing seems very appropriate? ?Obstructing, Pervading: Reversing ones sorting indeed?

For me this is saying that a great obstruction passes and the people with which one is grouped is radically altered.

Karchers comment on the 5th Line ? ?You are afraid to leave the nest. Don?t worry come out and live in the great world. If you need help ask for it . It will be there. Use your basic connection to people who are your spiritual kin. Act on your hearts desire.?

His comment on the 5th line:
?This is a great union which will have repercussions through the generations. It is an omen of future happiness that, in time, will gratify your desires and realise all of your aims. Take joy in this connection.?


The transforming hexagram is of course 43 Deciding / Parting - Resolution

I will leave you with Karcher?s first line:
?Resolution, Act clearly, make a decision and announce it; breakthrough; part from the past, separate; clean it out and bring it to light.


Tali ? It would appear that a time is going to open up for you in a rather wonderful way.

Sometimes deep struggles lead to deep growth? I wish you the peace and the fulfilment this reading bodes.

--Kevin

 

[cal val]

Hi Kevin...

Agreed agreed agreed! We can see the future. I agree with Tali as well. We can see it, but we can't know it until it is upon us.

My experience has been that I was only shown enough to know I was on the right path when I finally came upon it. I have not been able to see the path though since I've known I'm on it. And, in my blindness in the darkness, the force behind the Yi and my dreams has shined a beacon on the obstacles I've needed to clear and the way back when I've strayed... never letting me stray too far.

"but it is a pointless thing" Disagreed! There was a point to my seeing it. And what you have witnessed in my posts in this forum was very much a part of the point. As you shall see if you read on, my friend.

Tali...

I HAVE A CONFESSION! It was only natural for me to embrace you. I know well... I've made a point to learn about your blessing/curse because I'm truly, madly, deeply in love with a man who shares it with you.

When I first got here, I posted that the Yi was pushing me to re-unite with my Great Man (formerly known as My Shy Muse). I mentioned that no man has ever loved me more deeply and wonderfully than this man has. I've told everyone about his many wonderful qualities until they probably felt like puking. I also said I'd been hesitant about re-uniting with him because he has a dark side... a physical challenge... that I wasn't sure I could or wanted to deal with it. Well all that's changed since all the changes the force behind the Yi has helped me through since I've been here.

I've learned from a site (http://www.bpso.org) that one of the forum members (I will let him name himself) sent me to that not only can I deal with his disorder, but I can help him deal with it as well. I can be the rudder that steers him to the safety of the harbor when the storm threatens. I can be the rope that ties him safely to the dock when the storm is upon him. And I want to now. Oh God do I ever want to. I not only feel up to the challenge... I welcome it... because the rewards of loving and being loved by him are so much greater than the inconvenience of a little stormy weather.

Tali, I've been quietly wishing there is... or soon will be... someone in your life who loves you as much as I love my Great Man and is fortunate enough to be loved by you as I am fortunate to be loved by him. If there is, I think they'll find that site especially educational and helpful.

To those of who say to Tali "get over it"...

The thing that plagues and gifts Tali and my Great Man is physical in nature and it creates mental and emotional challenges in their lives. The cause is physical. It's a chemical imbalance. And the fear that Tali expresses... the fear that holds my Great Man back as well... is part of the whole package. I can tell you from experience that Tali has expressed the best attitude about fear that I've seen on this forum yet. It ain't so easy for some to "get over it"... especially when their bodies are manufacturing it.

"dont fear your imbalance and fear. first acknowledge them. dont judge, just b aware of there presense." I also mentioned that my Great Man was more in touch with his feelings than I've ever been with mine. Well he has that same wisdom and awareness that Tali does. And, if they can acknowledge and accept their fear, they're a lot wiser than those of us who believe we have to deny it and stuff it and hide it from public view. Fear can be a gift as well as a curse. Our fear can keep us out of harm's way.

Some of the greatest minds in the arts and sciences have been people who suffer from bipolar disorder or other psychological disabilities. Vincent Van Gogh, was posthumously diagnosed as bipolar. There's Billy Joel ("I Go to Extremes"), Sting, John Lennon, Buzz Aldrin, Elton John, Abraham Lincoln, Sigmund Freud, Ernest Hemingway, Tim Burton, Jimi Hendrix, Louisa May Alcott, Marlon Brando, Calvin Coolidge, Martin Luther King, Jr., Winston Churchill, Marilyn Monroe, Edgar Allan Poe, Mark Twain, William Blake, Isaac Newton, TS Elliot, and the list just goes on and on. Tali and my Great Man, and Leonard as well, are in good company... and they deserve to be.

Unfortunately, most of us are only aware of the stigma of psychological disabilities and entertain myths rather facts about them. Please feel free to educate yourselves otherwise at your leisure: http://www.stigmaof.com/whywe.htm.

Love,

Val

 

[cheiron]

Hi Val

Good to touch base again... Yes perhaps I put that overstrongly... I think I meant to say that enfatuation with the future and no focus on the present is of little value... or something such like.

Your correction is welcomed - thanks

Now off to read those links.

Liked your post right through.

Warmly

--Kevin

 

[citizenkoine]

Hi Tali,

Or mad verse.

I have no medical expertise. I am not religious, per se.

It has been my experience, however, that a residency of some sort in a practice community can create a container/microcosm/context in which to address your more intransigent issues, in a social environment instead of in relative isolation.

In my case, I was a resident at the San Francisco Zen Center for two years, and before that I was a work-study student at the Tassajara Zen Mountain Monastery for a summer. The two are affiliated.

I passed through those experiences, and I'm not even sure I can pinpoint how they helped me, but now I am in a stable work situation, a stable living situation, and these have allowed me to return to school - it has been almost ten years since I recieved my BFA; it has been eighteen since I left high-school.

Sitting meditation in a community setting is actually a pragmatic approach to sorting things out and moving forward. Sitting meditation, in-and-of-itself, presents a host of benefits, not the least of which are relaxation and concentration; it presents (me) with the quandary: attention to detail vs. letting go: again, and agaiin, and again.

The community environment of sesshin - a temporary, 3, 5, or 7-day intensive retreat - offers the same, concentrated fare, on a broader, more diverse, and yet hermetic level. For example, meals are eaten silently, in the practice-hall, in a traditional style that is very ceremonial. It takes alot of concentration and forgiveness to practice this form, but it is there expressly to provide a practice opportunity. It does get easier. period. There is also walking-meditation, which exercises/exorcises goal-orientation, and the like. The sesshin is not a marathon; there are plenty of breaks, and the active components have a median range of about a half-hour - anywhere from 10 - 40 minutes, and then (a bell) something else.

A sesshin IS usually part of a longer, less structured period of practice - called a practice-period. The sesshin usually ends this period, and IS relatively marathon-like, as the practice-period lasts a matter of weeks, or months. Activity during the practice - period is less choreographed, including lectures, open meals, and short periods of maintenance/chore-practice, and practice-discussions with experienced practitioners, also known as teachers.

You can either take or leave the Buddhist context in which these things occur. Nothing is specifically asked of a person, other than that they follow the schedule. The time is yours, the 'form' is taken care of for you, for the time-being, so that you can meet your own needs. You will not be alone, though.

As for the Yi, I see it as a practice-object, a mediator for internal and external experience. It is as unsummarizable as a life is. I do feel that it does not 'translate' with sufficient context for either the broad mass of society or individuals dealing with intransigent, overwhelming issues. It is up to we individuals, here in the 'West', to build up this context, into and out of our environment as we've inherited it - similarly to and in-concert with the building of our own, personal, contextual life's-situations.

This site is the most active, vital contribution to the building of that context that I have yet come across.

Tali, I wonder what you think? There's a network of practice-centers, across the US, and the world, for that matter. They offer a variety of program-formats and tuition structures, including scholarships. The change-of-scenery, alone, might be helpful. I am willing to point you in the direction of resources, if you are interested.

in collaboration,
-Justin

 

[citizenkoine]

Looking back at the interaction bet. Tali and Tashij, I wonder if the firing-cap hasn't been removed from the situation. That Whitney program sounds great.
just writing-through your midnights.

-koine

 

[claire]

Hello Tali.
I will email you so we can talk, ok?
I havent emailed you yet cause I have not been online lately.
I know how much hard and messy life can be and I want to talk to you cause I really do think and feel that you and me have lots to share and to learn together.
Your words about how you feel touched me deeply, Tali.
I want to offer you my friendship.

I catch you soon, ok?
Kisses and much love to you,
Claire.

 

[madversity]

hi justin. a program like that is just what i need, a year long one? though i am an american citizen i live in israel and dont know how i could make tuition.

as for the Yi i agree we are relying on translations of a foreign culture, which is extreemly frustrating. language is a live organism and it alters continually by the ppl using it. the only constant in our material world is change, language not only describes ou perceptions, they actually create them. our language and the way we use it defines our reality.

thats why i prefer translations which r the least of the bad...but i agree that everyone must peercieve, understand and express the Yi's timeless truths in the context of their culture, traditions and life. only then can the written text have meaning for YOU.

i would appreciate more info about these seminars, pref one with less philosophy and more doing, that would be better for me. thank you.

hi claire, i know things r really crazy now, same here. i want to talk to u and have alot to share. i feel like your a younger sister., never had one...

ill get back to the inquiries kevin made for me after my nap...told u im useless

love tali

at my ripe age of 38 i believe yoga and meditation rule. they r the tools with which we can balance ourselves and establish healthier quality of life. sadly im too stressed to even attempt either. esp meditation i think i fear.

 

[madversity]

val, i just noticed i didnt say anything to you. i think u r a beatiful person and would b glad to share my experience with u and claire. ur both such wonderful ppl. we will set it up, i have an idea. tell u later. love tali

 

[heylise]

When Tali got hex.11, and two lines same as Deanna (at http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?92/1614 ), I immediately had the idea, that the Yi was telling us about the value, both of Tali and of Deanna's husband.

Hex.11 has to do with blessings from Heaven, to pick up what one finds on one's road, and not discarding it because it is not what we wanted.

For Deanna it changed to 10, because she had to solve it with a way of treading. For Tali it changes to 43, holding up your token, and being able to speak up.

The name of hex.43 is a picture of a hand, holding up half of the seal, received by the emperor, and which is the sign of his trust, and of the rank of the hand's owner.

The emperor, or heaven, or your ideals, whatever, has the other half.

LiSe

 

[heylise]

Hexagram 43

 

[madversity]

heylise, that others r more up to date than me on my own thread. but its not easy to take in so much info and contact so many ppl. i saw your pics in your profile and they, i men you, r very beautiful.

i was saddened when u used the metaphor of the husbandsadly i dont have a mate. i was engaged to the love of my life 3 yrs ago but left him when i suffered a major depression that dissociated me from my emotions. havent seen him since. i live in israel and he in canada. anyway we r still in touch via comp-yuck. but he just told me hes too frustrated by me to talk to me and we should stop talking on mssngr and writing i guess i should learn to let him go, even though i so need him : ( thanks for listening. take care.

btw your interpretation reminded me of 31 that speeaks of 2 parts of a once complete whole and the affect they have on eachother

 

[madversity]

id like to say a word (ya right) aboutthe adjective 'perfect'. only things, tools, machine can b "perfect" for their function.

does being a brilliant student or professional make someone better than anyone else? ppl r ends and not a means to an end. so perfection is not a relavent predicate for humans and nature. and the question itself is wrong.

i just want u all to know, youre greaaaat. love tali.

 

[citizenkoine]

Got your message, Tali. Can't answer it (well) for a little while.

I did see a sign recently which seems pertinent. It read, 'Please hold on. Sudden stops are sometimes necessary.'

And, my personal favorite: 'Pause. Don't hesitate.'

thanx for humoring me,
-Justin

 

[candid]

To bring it back to the reading of 45: fasten your seat belt.

 

[madversity]

hey, i feel ive so come to fear strong yang in me, passion included. since i understood the nature of my illness and my predicament, my self check system is stronger than ever. maybe thats why i prefer to spend so much time alone.

i wouldnt say my illness is a blessing, even though im always learning. i dont think a person should reach such faroff shores to know himself and his needs.

mental illness, like any other natural phenomena has many layers to it and is affected by the sum of our experiences. one gets ill as result of many different things and not just by a quirk of our nervous system. daily pressures and self neglect are most often the triger. nothing happens in a vaccum. we percieve, feel and think. all these are affected by what is called our"mood".

the thing with ill ppl is that they have insufficient defences and when they hit rock bottom its nearly a miracle to get up.

my extreeme life history has made it difficult for me to establish patterns which would allow me to experience things in a balanced way and i am drawn to get to polarities of things.

i believe all mental illnesses r the product of depression and neglect. all r different faces of depression. even if they dont always seem so.

so sadly my seatbelt is always on but i fear even an air bag wont do...

 

[candid]

Hi Justin,

I agree with you, when you hit rock bottom it IS a miracle to get up. And its exactly for this reason that miracles occur.

A very wise elderly woman once told me, a seer, that a Universal Goddess was standing before me holding out fruit of many kinds, and that all I had to do was reach out and take it.

How difficult it is for those of us who have been providers all our lives to take. Even when our lives depend on it.

The Universe is willing if you are. That's the only condition. You must be willing to receive, to reach out and take it.

You won't need an air bag, just something to hold you.

C

 

[candid]

Oops, very sorry. Getting confused here. That last post was directed to Tali, not Justin.