Greta Thunberg

[moss elk]

The impact of climate change and how it will change isn't 100% factually certain.

98% of scientists who do not work for the fossil fuel industries agree that the science and math says we have only a few decades to make a course correction with carbon emissions, if we want human beings to continue to exist on the planet, in other than a stone age existence. (every coastal city submerged, mass starvation..etc)

100% of 'scientists' who are on the payroll of the fossil fuel industries say there is no problem at all.

The current u.s president works for the fossil fuel barons, that is why he pulled out of the Paris Accords. (these are the same barons that quashed the electric car in the 1950's, and quashed fuel efficiency standards in the 1970's)

Just thought I'd nod to that.

 

[becalm]

I have no words for the sheer stupidity of the way she (or whoever’s behind her doing it) went about it.

 

[moss elk]

I had very similar experiences to yours regarding the threat of nuclear war in the early ‘80s; I was also in my early 20s and now feel angry about all the media hype because it certainly had an adverse effect on me and presumably many others.

Regarding your other posts I would agree that Greta although earnest has many issues and is being at least partially exploited by adults.

Ignorance is bliss, you say?
Shoot the messenger, you say?

 

[foxx777]

Ignorance is bliss, you say?
Shoot the messenger, you say?

What I meant was being terrorized by media hype was not productive; as Trojina noted, our anxiety at a young age was poisonous to us and did absolutely nothing to change things. These were not “messengers”: these were sensationalist fear-mongers, trying to get hit pieces in magazines and on news shows.

 

[moss elk]

For adults who are angry at Greta:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1177178666402365440

 

[moss elk]

Here is an interview that shows she is a very bright and well adjusted 16 year old.
At 2:35 she talks about her Aspergers and calls it her superpower.

 

[Gmulii]

I have been pondering on the character and motives of Greta Thunberg, as I know many others have too--some with zeal and support, others with suspicion and derision.

Before he died Edison said:

“I’d put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don’t have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that.”
(source here)

At the same time, the cree native American tribe had a prophecy for our time. Goes like this:
"Only when the last tree has been cut down, the last fish been caught, and the last stream poisoned, will we realize we cannot eat money."

Here is a good view to the skies in Japan.

Here is China:

Here is India:

15% of the deaths in China are attributed to the air pollution for that year.

Now, we have someone that is saying that the rate we are polluting the planet is probably not a good idea.
And we start to wonder about her hidden motivation and what the people behind her are trying to do.

Lets keep some perspective here. That isn't some new idea the scientific community just invented. Kyoto was signed before she was even born:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

All the stuff mentioned then was much better, we can follow how it goes worse and worse...

Even though it seems difficult to find info on it now, what I remember it was backed up by more then half of the living Nobel laureates at the time, as the situation was already getting scary. Was a very impressive event as we could already see most of the scientific community was clear on its message to the world, as its rarely is.

Now, 27 years later not much had changed.

In my view the problem is the scientists aren't "loud" and the world we live in has make people value whoever is "loudest".
And people are paying a lot of money to present the idea that not a lot is changing.

Nothing new for me, either, years ago I posted in different forums we wrote at the time that we are going through the largest mass extinction the planet has seen(back then a lot of the scientists were classifying it as larger then the one that wiped out the dinosaurs) and all the other stuff. Practice shows people aren't responding as there isn't much they can do about it.

People are responding to her, though. And that is interesting to see.

 

[Trojina]

Re Moss Elk's posts -I just hate it when men use a feminist angle for their own purposes as in the clip you posted about middle aged men.

I'm a woman, I've written of my unease with her speech and the reasons but you post all about the problem as being to do with middle aged men ? So maybe you didn't hear me ? I think that angle is pretty dated and borrowed from older social critiques and jumping on a band wagon I think er especially when it's middle aged men who create and post the videos …..

I don't want to see children, who have no life experience whatsoever, used a figureheads to promote political causes. A sketch by a middle aged man lazily using old material from the feminist angle of earlier times doesn't mean anything.

Also the double standard used around her age is absurd.

So let's see. One cannot argue with her because she's a little girl ? Yet she is placed in front of millions to deliver her speech as an adult and we are meant to take her speech as an adult but then again we can't because she's a child ? A child having a nervous breakdown more to the point. A video of her acting 'well adjusted' hardly means much.

So if as a child she is making a speech as an adult it's absurd not to expect people to raise concerns including women - of all ages. I don't think it was a great speech any way. So it's a 40.3 kind of thing - which are you going to answer her as ? A child prodigy or an adult ? I don't think child prodigies have great mental health records and I don't want a child prodigy screaming at me, well she can scream at Trump if she likes but she wasn't just screaming at Trump and I thought the whole 'you have stolen my childhood' was bollocks. Abused kids, sexually abused kids, neglected kids have their childhoods stolen, no one stole her childhood except possibly her own family. I know plenty of kids who don't claim their childhood was 'stolen', I disliked that manipulative way of using a child to manipulate adults by claiming her childhood was stolen, it wasn't, she's likely from a fairly privileged background where education is seen as valuable unlike actual children who suffer neglect, lack of education and all kinds of physical abuse - Oh and I see she made her parents buy an electric car - that's privilege then as who can afford an electric car ? I know I can't.

Also, though I said one's own views were needed this has gone far from the actual reading of 39.4 which, if one believes in these kinds of questions, surely indicates she is going about this the wrong way.

I think she's being exploited, exploited as a gimmick and exploitation is just as possible from the 'save the planet' angle as any other angle.


I see no point in arguing here that the environment is under threat - we know that we don't need pictures and it's not that we are even talking about. We are talking about the person of Greta in particular - that is what the question was about.

Lets keep some perspective here. That isn't some new idea the scientific community just invented. Kyoto was signed before she was even born:

I think it's you who needs some perspective by going and reading what the question was rather than reiterate lots of evidence for global warming.


Again no one much seems to talk about reducing the population, it's meant to be great people can just have as many kids as they want because it's part of their culture or whatever.


For things to change capitalism has to change and that won't be achieved by scaring 8 year olds shitless that the end of the world is coming. Really if their parents thought the end of the world was coming WTF did they have kids ??



And of course alot of this is just bullshit such as from Prince Harry saying his bit about climate change yesterday - oh yes says all the right things and flys a private plane around....? There is so much bullshit around this whole thing. One can actually take climate change seriously and still not appreciate a 16 year old girl being used as a gimmick


Actually that's what this boils down to so I will repeat it


One can actually take climate change seriously and still not appreciate a 16 year old girl being used as a gimmick


Mocking people by making assumptions about their beliefs because they think the Greta speech was not good is just not taking things apart enough - you're just plonking people who didn't think it was great into a category of being anti save the planet.


One can actually take climate change seriously and still not appreciate a 16 year old girl being used as a gimmick

 

[Trojina]

Reminds me of how in UK Brexit supporters are often tarnished as racist whereas that wasn't their reason for voting for Brexit at all. Some were racially motivated others weren't. Also all concern about immigration was labelled as 'racist' when it wasn't.

Here in this thread anyone who wasn't that keen on Greta's speech is mocked as being a middle aged right wing non environmentally friendly white man and that's clearly bullshit.


I think it shows an unwillingness to deal with the nuances in political situations, people just want to categorise everyone as either for/against whatever it is.

 

[Gmulii]

I didn't want to mock anyone.
But we need to be aware of some info to figure out why the question about her motivation seems silly.

Imaging someone running on a crowded street yelling around "I'm chased by an alligator, I'm chased by an alligator!!!"
Theirs motivation we may never know, if there is no alligator that we can see.

Now, imagine someone running toward us yelling "THERE IS ALLIGATOR INCOMING!!!" and we see one moving fast approaching them.
At this point wondering what their motivation is, seems silly. Their motivation is the same thing that will be our problem in a few seconds.

In a similar way, her motivation will very much depend on how real and pressing the problem with the pollution is. And for most part I think we can confidently conclude that its very real, its been here for many decades and it has became so severe that her reaction seems very motivated from the state of the environment.

Someone that knows the situation would have every reason to act in exactly the way she is.
Now, someone did made her aware of the situation, most 16 year olds aren't, so someone may be using that... But they seem to be using it to try to help the environment, I don't see a problem there either.

Why we aren't reacting the same way is the interesting question that she seems wondering as well... And the answer would be, mostly because the problem dragged out for decades, many years ago most of us did had the energy to try to do something about it, now her generation can try. Hopefully will work better then it did for us.

But her motivation as the question seemed to be, should be somewhat clear by itself.
And I'm not mocking anyone on purpose, also I don't see why the political affiliation, gender or race of the people in the topic should make any difference. In my country the politic system isn't working like that, but at the end of the day we all have to breath the same air.

 

[rosada]

Btw, I just looked up Greta’s astrological chart. She has both the Sun and the Moon in Capricorn, the sign of authority and also the sign ruling bare facts and harsh reality. Also, right now the planet Pluto, the planet ruling death and transformation, is exactly on her Moon thus making her the spokesperson for climate change and Saturn, the planet ruling limits and harsh reality, is exactly on her Sun, the planet ruling self expression, so she is stating exactly what the situation is.

 

[Trojina]

I'm not sure about that as lots of people have Pluto on their sun right now - billions of people in fact in fact I think it's opposite my sun. And Saturn is on many people's moons, I mean literally billions, so I don't feel her chart necessarily points to her being in the role she is in.

 

[Trojina]

Gmulii I didn't mean you or anyone was mocking anybody, you weren't, I was referring to the video Moss Elk posted which was a skit on middle aged men getting furious, didn't you see it will link, it's in this thread post 18

I don't think it's wrong to do what she does it's just when I saw her speech I felt uneasy at her being the spokesperson for all the reasons I gave.

Regarding her motivation I think that's a tricky area because all activists for change will have the motivation of their cause and also all their own motivations which an adult will at least have had the time to be more aware of. How aware is she as a 16 year old of herself and her own stuff ?


I don't object in any way to her speech I just have some reservations about it, I'm not jumping up and down saying 'wow that was great' I think emotion got in her way, I think she could have made a better speech if she had not been so overwhelmed. I also don't really think she should have been placed in that position. I wonder why the adults who have filled her head with terror aren't there speaking and why she is their mascot. I also think it's wrong to fill kid's heads with terror. If adults are so concerned about climate change why did they have kids only to dump the problem on their kids.

 

[rosada]

Greta was born on January 3, the 13th degree of Capricorn. Saturn is at 13 degrees Capricorn just now.
Greta has her Moon at 22 degrees of Capricorn. Pluto is at 22 degrees Capricorn just now.
The Sun at 13 degrees Capricorn and the Moon at 22 degrees Capricorn only happens once a year for 2.5 hours. There are probably several hundred (not billions) who have similar placements. It would be interesting to know what is going on in their lives these days!

 

[Trojina]

Well I don't suppose they are all spokesperson's for their generation, what's happening to them is going to depend on where they are born and who they are born to. She obviously had a reasonable education but many with her placements won't have.

It has to be more than thousands surely but it's not a figure we have actual date for.

I'm not dissing astrology, I use it myself but I am a little suspicious when astrologers take a famous person's chart and then say 'ah his moon was here ' etc etc because millions of other people will have had similar placements so there are other factors involved.

Also the cast was 39.4>31

 

[moss elk]

The child started this all by herself, with a single protest sign and a school strike.
She is the one who got her family on the environmentally conscious path, not the other way around.

Three women were also mocked in the video, there is nothing sexist about it.

She is not being exploited, she is being celebrated, because she is impressive and has merit, and more of a spine than most people you know. She is very self aware, even of her aspergers, you can see that in the interview.

About the reading?
39.4, she doesn't currently get much headway in the u.s due to the us fossil fuel cartel/administration. She goes back to Sweden and makes alliances for progress there.

 

[Liselle]

Personal opinion from a casual astrology-user: transits bring out what's in a person's chart to begin with. Greta's chart by itself probably shows some underlying tendency to do what she's doing (have some degree of fame; be a spokesperson; do something unusual as a teenager - however you want to characterize it), and then the transits probably say "when" ("activate it" might be a way to say it).


I agree there's a distinct novelty aspect to this, simply because she's a teenager. A similarly-positioned 40 year old (i.e. not an office-holder, not a previously-established authority or celebrity) doing what she did likely would not have gotten the same attention. I agree the novelty can be exploited.

We'll see what happens as she gets older. Some child prodigies/stars do very well as adults (e.g. Hilary Hahn); many don't. Some teenage interests stick with people; some don't. Maybe this is a moment in the sun; maybe it's a burgeoning career. Etc. We don't know.

The reading - this interpretation from Underwaterstar seems pretty reasonable. Not sure if ego per se is in the reading, but the rest of it sounds about right, to me at least. Maybe it means she'll connect with people, get help, and then find paths to influence other than being a novelty. We'll see.

Also seems to warn against trying to stand alone, going forth on the spindly legs of ego... rather, come back into the fold, find the like-minded people and work together to make change.

 

[Trojina]

The child started this all by herself, with a single protest sign and a hunger strike.
She is the one who got her family on the environmentally conscious path, not the other way around.

Hunger strike ? Her mother was an opera singer ! An opera singer how far up the social scale was she then. She didn't suddenly switch an ordinary family to be eco conscious they were already well aware of it if they weren't she wouldn't have been- Looks like she has serious mental health problems as a child, she stopped eating and speaking at 11. Why would that happen to an 11 year old ?

Three women were also mocked in the video, there is nothing sexist about it.

You've lost me. I think you have missed the point/misunderstood my point. I wasn't saying it was sexist I was saying it was tiresome when men adapt and use old feminist ideas for their own purposes as the maker of that video did.

She is not being exploited, she is being celebrated, because she is impressive and has merit, and more of a spine than most people you know.

Who can say whether she has more spine than people I know, who knows what difficulties people face in their lives. We won't know whether she is being exploited or not until she grows up and writes her autobiography about her childhood and her anorexia and all the other stuff. It may not end up that way she may continue in her role.

Problem is in the process of the discussion unfortunately I feel I've painted myself/or been painted into a corner of being anti Greta which I'm not at all. I'm just very conflicted about what she's really doing and who is behind her.

Also people need to get clear about whether they want to put her in the category of a child or not. If she takes an adult role at the UN then of course she will be argued with like anyone else. Or are we just meant to think she's a little girl so adults can't say anything.


And anyway she's not the daughter of a bus driver or a shop assistant, she already has numerous advantages in getting her voice heard since she comes from a well off family who apparently have a history in theatre. So she has had a highly privileged background so it was far easier for her to get opportunities to be in positions where she would be seen and heard. That's not to diminish her achievements but I think some reservations about her position are quite well justified.


I think the stuff about her changing her family is not very believable at all. 11 year olds are influenced by their parents, it's a joke to say her parents knew nothing till she showed them the way. I don't believe that for one moment. What kind of adults change their entire diet and buy and electric car because their kid says so- huh they bought her up and were with her when she was so ill at 11 what had they been telling her ?

 

[Liselle]

Also agree that it's real easy to shake one's fist and say something has to be done. The devil is in the details.

 

[Trojina]

Everyone is arguing about it and I find I agree with Piers Morgan again (last time I agreed was when he complained how girls were being banned from wearing skirts at school )

Yes 'catastrophising' that's the word, some of it falsely alarmist, and many children now have anxiety disorders over something they don't even 100% know will happen or rather how it will happen.

 

[Liselle]

M.E. it's hardly "just" emotional reactions - Trojina has also made the point that a child being scared to the point of not eating over something like this is sickening. (Trojina put it better than that the several times she made the point.)

Greta's reaction is surely quite a lot to do with Greta's own personality - it's certainly not entirely her parents' doing - but maybe there could have been more intervention in some way? I mean, here we are playing back-seat parents which isn't great either. But from what's been described it does seem to have gotten quite extreme with Greta at an early age, and at that age, and even at 16, parents' influence is still important and necessary.

 

[moss elk]

M.E. it's hardly "just" emotional reactions

Not just, but predominately.

 

[Trojina]

M.E. it's hardly "just" emotional reactions - Trojina has also made the point that a child being scared to the point of not eating over something like this is sickening. (Trojina put it better than that the several times she made the point.)

I can't see where he said anything about 'just emotional reactions' ? Maybe it was deleted so I don't know what it was about ?

 

[Trojina]

Not just, but predominately.

What was what predominantly ?

 

[moss elk]

It was from a deleted post of mine,
nothing to see here...

 

[Underwaterstar]

Well today here in Canada we had some huge turnouts. Half a million marched in Montreal, she looks pretty happy here

As it happened – 500,000 in Montreal climate march led by Greta Thunberg

A team of Montreal Gazette journalists covered Friday’s massive Montreal climate march. Here’s what happened in words, photos and videos.

montrealgazette.com

 

[moss elk]

2 minutes after refusing to accept (or do anything about) climate change,
the Venice Council chambers were flooded with the highest water on record.

Veneto Council Flooded Two Minutes After Rejecting Climate Action, Councilor Says - EcoWatch

The historic "acqua alta" that swamped Venice Tuesday night also flooded the Veneto regional council for the first time, just moments after it had apparently rejected measures to address the climate crisis. At the time, the councilors were discussing the 2020 budget for the northeastern Italian...

www.ecowatch.com

Lake Michigan, which my city is built upon has high water now also. 33 inches higher than the average recorded level.
All of the piers are submerged in a way I've never seen. The water is usually 2 feet below the concrete walkway you see in the picture, it has been that way since Summer.

Climate Change Sends Great Lakes Water Levels Seesawing

Six years ago, lake levels were low, now lakeside communities face widespread flooding

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[Pythia]

Btw, I just looked up Greta’s astrological chart. She has both the Sun and the Moon in Capricorn, the sign of authority and also the sign ruling bare facts and harsh reality. Also, right now the planet Pluto, the planet ruling death and transformation, is exactly on her Moon thus making her the spokesperson for climate change and Saturn, the planet ruling limits and harsh reality, is exactly on her Sun, the planet ruling self expression, so she is stating exactly what the situation is.

Hi Rosada ... I am a semi-retired professional astrologer who is very keen to know Greta's time (and location) of birth. I cast her chart to put the Moon in 22º Capricorn, as you suggest, and it does "look like" Greta to me. Can you tell me your source for this time, and what time exactly you use? Thank you.

 

[Pythia]

Btw, I just looked up Greta’s astrological chart. She has both the Sun and the Moon in Capricorn, the sign of authority and also the sign ruling bare facts and harsh reality. Also, right now the planet Pluto, the planet ruling death and transformation, is exactly on her Moon thus making her the spokesperson for climate change and Saturn, the planet ruling limits and harsh reality, is exactly on her Sun, the planet ruling self expression, so she is stating exactly what the situation is.

 

[Trojina]

Have you seen the conspiracy theory that Greta is a time traveller as her face appears in a photograph over 100 years ago


Better picture