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Help with hex.44

mousse

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Hello all,

First HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone. I tossed the coins this morning and I'm scratching my head :brickwall:.... Interpretation is not easy: I wold appreciate if someone has insights about that. Ok, I had a date with a guy who cancelled just 2 days before our date. For the past three months, we flirted quite a lot ;-) but last weekend he ran into his ex and thought well...it wouldn't be a good idea to see each other. I was quite stunned and also sad. I liked the guy! I ask the question this morning:

What should I do in this situation with him?
I received 44.1.4 > 9

I asked what to do and hex.44 to me , it seems it talks about the ex girlfriend... Am I wrong?

Would you have any insights?

I thank you in advance.

Cheers,

Mousse
 

atri ob

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Re: 44.1.4

Hi mousse,

Happy new year to you too!

Sorry to hear about this situation. My reading of it is that you should steer clear of your lower urges/desires (44.1) as the situation is untenable (44.4), doing so will cause you to progress in small steps whose effect will slowly build up into some form of understanding (9).

I also read 44.4 as the "empty heart" line (feeling empty and lonely). If line 1 is not heeded, line 4 can result. However, sometimes the opposite is true, we feel empty inside so we allow our lower desires to kick in as a way out.

Either way, I see this reading telling you that you are in control. You call the shots as to what happens when it comes to your own wellbeing. Be kind to yourself and choose wisely.

I hope this was helpful.
 

mousse

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Thank you

Hello atri ob,

I thank you very much for your reading. I'm still confused with hex.44. I guess I'm still confused period. I'm still wondering what did I do wrong ? and why me? why men don't want me? :confused:
You are right: i'm the only one responsible for my well-being. I still don't know what to do about this guy? Keep hoping or not... Maybe that's the next question I should ask the Yi.

Thanks again,

Cheers,
Mousse
 

rosada

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Hi mousse,
To understand the hexagrams it is often helpful to consider the trigrams that construct them. 44 is made up of WIND below and HEAVEN above. Think of Wind as stirring up feelings and then Heaven empowering them. So 44 suggests alot of feelings being stirred up and then running wild across the sky. This can cause a lot of trouble because it's just feelings, subconscious impulses that now are running loose. consider hexagram 18. Work on what has been spoiled. There the lower trigram is also WIND, but the upper trigram is MOUNTAIN, which has to do with containing. So in 18 the feelings are stirred up, but they don't run loose, they are contained and thus one can consider them and sort them through and let them find their proper place so 18 is Work on What has been Spoiled, that is, work on sorting out the displaced feelings. Anyway, in 44 we're dealing with unconscious impulses ihfluencing the situation so the advice here is to talk about feelings, bring what's going on out in the open. In regards to your situation with your friend I would say this is a very positive omen because rather than leading you on, or standing you up, he came right out and told you what had happened. I'd say this indicates you are attracting a higher class of men now, so don't beat yourself up thinking YOU have done something wrong. You actually must be doing things right!

As to the lines
44.1 Could this be the flirting that then led to setting up a date when actually he still had real feelings for the ex?
44.4 Could this be cautioning that even though the romance potential between you has evaporated you ought still be polite to one another? Who knows, maybe when he sees his ex up close he'll realize he only wanted to end things with her on a better note and then he'll be free to start something with you!

Hexagram 9 discribes a situation where good things are coming - rain - they just aren't here yet and meanwhile, while waiting the superior man refines his outward appearance. So while you are watching for your true Mr Right, hexagram 9 suggests you do all you can to make you and your physical appearance very much who you are. That is, dress, speak and act in away that expresses your inner nature. Let your inner fabulousness shine forth!
 
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mousse

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Thanks

Hello Rosada,

I thank you very much for both the help with interpretation and the nice words you had :) Very positive . You are right, I'm lucky to attract honest guys. They'd rather tell me things up front than lying to me (the last two I dated did...). I didn't like what they said ;-) but they were honest and right. I did appreciate it.

About the ex, you might be right. He broke up with her for a reason (don't know which one); maybe he needs to see her again to end their relationship for good...or not. I guess that I'll have to wait to know more.

Because I was confused with that answer I asked the Yi, should I hope for a change between him and I? and I received hex. 38.2.4.6> 24

I think this shows the opposition now and maybe the fact he torn between her and I. Hex.24 is a good omen no? The return...well if he returns to me ;-).

Once again, thank you rosada.

Cheers,

Mousse
PS I'll try to be fabulous!
 

rktommy

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Hi, Mousse

This does appears to be a very disappopinting situation for you. One quick insight. Look at the nuclear Hex of Hex 44. The nuclear (lines 234, 345) is none less than Hex 1 The Creative Force. It is through the Creative, acting in time, that the Power of the Universe is made manifest. You may consider taking this disappoint and thinking of ways the creative force within yourself can be developed at this time. " The superior man is aware of the potentiality of the creative force and does not lose sight of the developing possibilities."

Best wishes!

Richard
 

willowfox

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What should I do in this situation with him?
I received 44.1.4 > 9

I suggest you remind him of his prior commitment to take you out on a date as he needs to be stopped seeing his previous ex before it develops any further between them. Even though you are annoyed by what he has done, the line says not to give up on him, be patient as later things will be different.
 

mousse

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Hello,

Thank you guys for your help. Willowfox, i'm afraid reminding him his engagement (to take me out on a date) is the solution. I won't give up on him and we'll see what happens next.

Cheers,

Mousse
 

Trojina

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Hello,

Thank you guys for your help. Willowfox, i'm afraid reminding him his engagement (to take me out on a date) is the solution. I won't give up on him and we'll see what happens next.

Cheers,

Mousse
I disagree I'm afraid. Of course if you want remind him of the engagement but I can't see why you would. If i looked at the situation without the Yis answer I'd say cancelling a date with you to be with his ex hardly bodes well for your relationship - and if it were me I'd pass him by...okay its not me but looking at the answer you received I really don't see great encouragement there at all. What could be less encouraging than 44.4 'no fish in the bag'. There not much you can do here except be patient, friendly, kind of reserved maybe (hex 9) if you want to maintain a friendship - if you do. 44 generally shows an influence that throws you off balance, (IMO) I think line 1 here indicates that the whole thing is better nipped in the bud. Thats how it looks to me from here anyway-

I don't see what line Wfox says means "do not give up on him" ?
 

Tohpol

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44 generally shows an influence that throws you off balance, (IMO) I think line 1 here indicates that the whole thing is better nipped in the bud. Thats how it looks to me from here anyway-
I don't see what line Wfox says means "do not give up on him" ?

I must admit, as far as I can see, I'd certainly advise great caution with this one. I don't see any indication that you should force a way through here, especially with an ex-wife in tow.

Topal
 

willowfox

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I don't see what line Wfox says means "do not give up on him" ?
Check out line 44.4 it says don't turn away from this insignificant person as she never knows when she will need him for some purpose. So, don't alienate someone just because you are annoyed.
 

mousse

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Hello all,

Thank you for your help. Trojan, in my reply I forgot a "not". I meant I didn't want to reminded him his engagement. Asking him again for a date would be a mistake. So I didn't. I decided to be me. I reply to his apologetic email nicely, calmly. I thought it was the best solution. I don't know what's in store for us: nothing, friendship or more. I didn't want to spoil a friendship with bad words.

BTW, for Topal he is not married. It is ex girlfirend.
After sending my email to me, I asked the Yi: What is the evolution of our relationship? I received:

52.5 >53.

I can se clearly with 52: the immobilisation now. And 53, is slow progress. I see this one as positive. But maybe it's not.

Thank you all again.

Cheers,

Mousse
 

Trojina

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Check out line 44.4 it says don't turn away from this insignificant person as she never knows when she will need him for some purpose. So, don't alienate someone just because you are annoyed.
Ah I see your're taking Wihelms commentary. I can't see how Wilhelm goes from 'no fish in the bag' to taking that to mean keeping someone happy as you might need them but then I've largely mentally ditched Wilhelms line commentary
 

rosada

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trojan - Is there a specific author you prefer to Wilhelm?
 

Tohpol

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I think this is why I'm finding it so important to take into account as many different line interpretations as possible. I guess the idea is to also take a really hard look at our situations as objectively as we can while taking the mean of the readings and then applying it. Taking the time to do that is vital I reckon.

Wilhelm has strengths in the image and commentary but occasionally loses his way in the line interpretations - or at least loses depth due to socio-cultural influences. Karcher or LiSE with a more intuitive take can balance that out I think.

For example, regarding 44.4 Karcher has quite a different rendering:

Line 4: "This means keeping what is common at a distance. There are no creative possibilities in this. A barren womb. Objecting or rebelling won't help.

Direction: Subtly penetrate to the core of the problem. Turn conflict into creative tension. The situation is already changing."


Topal
 

ballantrae

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Hello Mousse:
I'd like to post a beginner's comment if I may, even though I am not that familiar with the ins and outs of the trigrams. I understand that the lower trigram is the inner, and the upper trigam is the outer.

At present, you are Wind, surrounded by or in an atmosphere characterized by Heaven. Using a few words from Lise Heyboer's site, you are humble in the face of creative power. Or something like that.

In the future, you are Heaven, surrounded by Wind. You have life energy, while those with whom you come into contact are yielding.

This is a switch, where the positions are reversed. Since you asked about a relationship, perhaps this is telling you that while you maybe feel weaker now, in the future the shoe will be on the other foot, and you will be the strong one. You will treat potential partners very differently - and you will have the controlling hand. We need other people to show us what we need to develop in ourselves, after all.

What should you do in this situation? Does the Heaven in the lower part of the future mean that if you still want this person, you say: I want you; forget the ex, and he will obey.

The thing is, do you or will you still want him at all if he was thinking of getting back with the ex?

It may be that he will come (crawling?) back to you, and you will then have to decide if he's worth it. And given your new-found confidence / creative power, you may prefer to look for the best you can get.

Yours,

John Williamson
 

Trojina

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trojan - Is there a specific author you prefer to Wilhelm?
Like Topal I refer to many commentaries. I'm referring to Karcher alot lately. I still use Wilhelm alot, but I don't tend to read his line commentaries much anymore, for the reasons Topal gave
 

willowfox

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For example, regarding 44.4 Karcher has quite a different rendering:

Line 4: "This means keeping what is common at a distance. There are no creative possibilities in this. A barren womb. Objecting or rebelling won't help.

Direction: Subtly penetrate to the core of the problem. Turn conflict into creative tension. The situation is already changing."
Could Karcher be possibly wrong with this interpretation?

Wang Bi is suggesting not to cut oneself of from the common folk.

Balkin also says do not cut yourself of from others as you may just need them oneday.
 

rosada

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I thought it might be useful to have Wilhelm in front of us:

NIne in the fourth place means:
No fish in the tank.
This leads to misfortune.

Insignificant people must be tolerated in order to keep them well disposed. Then we can make use of them if we should need them. If we become alienated from them and do not meet them halfway, they turn their backs on us and are not at our disposal when we need them. But this is our own fault.

The misfortune inhering in the fact that there is no fish in the tank comes from his having kept aloof from the people.

The fourth place is that of the minister. The six at the beginning stands here for the inferior, lowly people. There is a relationship of correspondence between the two lines. Furthermore, it would be the duty of the official to keep in touch with the people. But this has been neglected. The line belongs to the trigram Ch'ien which strives upward, away from the people below. By doing this it attracts misfortune to itself. The corresponding nine in the third place of the preceding hexagram is also isolated, but there the inner attitude is correct, here it is not.
-Wilhelm
 

rosada

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..and Karcher:

Enwrapping without fish.
Rising up: pitfall.

Without fish's pitfall.
Distancing the commoners indeed.

There are no creative possibilities in this situation at the moment. Objecting or rebelling wont help. You are cut off from common experience.
-Karcher.
 

rosada

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It seems to me I'm using a different Karcher than others here. I'm using his "I Ching - The Classic Oracle of Change". It doesn't include the bit about "Direction." Is there another version by him?
 

Trojina

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I thought it might be useful to have Wilhelm in front of us:

NIne in the fourth place means:
No fish in the tank.
This leads to misfortune.

Insignificant people must be tolerated in order to keep them well disposed. Then we can make use of them if we should need them. If we become alienated from them and do not meet them halfway, they turn their backs on us and are not at our disposal when we need them. But this is our own fault.

The misfortune inhering in the fact that there is no fish in the tank comes from his having kept aloof from the people.

The fourth place is that of the minister. The six at the beginning stands here for the inferior, lowly people. There is a relationship of correspondence between the two lines. Furthermore, it would be the duty of the official to keep in touch with the people. But this has been neglected. The line belongs to the trigram Ch'ien which strives upward, away from the people below. By doing this it attracts misfortune to itself. The corresponding nine in the third place of the preceding hexagram is also isolated, but there the inner attitude is correct, here it is not.
-Wilhelm
Well here his exact words remind me of how i cannot relate to them in anyway. I can't think why he starts referring to 'insignificant people' :eek: There are no insignificant people are there ? Same with 'lowly people' - what does this have to do with no fish in the creel ? As far as I can see nothing at all. Do I want these 'inferior people' at my disposal, lol ? No I don't especially want to keep people who might be useful - see thats a fairly political slant on the line isn't it. Its just I feel its way more Wilhelms ideas then the Yi. Here for this line anyway Karchers commentary seems more apt. I'm not saying theres no value in his words here at all, only that for me persoanlly they are rather meaningless - as are a fair amount of Wilhelms commentaries -

I think Maria has had 44.4 a few times. I'm sure I recall quite a long and quite in depth discussion about it in another thread she started. I'll try to find it later maybe
 

mousse

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Dear All,

Thank you very much for your help...I'm still a bit confused but I'm trying to understand. I read and read again all your comments. As I see it, at the moment I don't have any control over the situation. The guy isn't there with me (no fish?). Like I said, I answered him calmly and I'll see what happens.

I still hope that the last Hex I got regarding the evolution of our relationship (52.5 >53) is good omen. I like the guy...even if he's totally lost ;-)

Trojan, I'll look after threads about 44.4.
Is that it:
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=4625



Cheers,

Mousse
 

Trojina

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Hi Mousse, thanks, yes thats the thread I was thinking of. I'll have to re read it.
 

Tohpol

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Could Karcher be possibly wrong with this interpretation?

Wang Bi is suggesting not to cut oneself of from the common folk.

Balkin also says do not cut yourself of from others as you may just need them oneday.

Yup, he could well be wrong.

Again, only mousse can know after taking the average, what applies to her situation. Maybe we could say there are no intimate possibilities here but there could be business/friendship potential?

Then again Brad hatcher sees this about disappointment as the fish that one desires are not swimming one's way and as a result, the disappointment itself becomes the blockage rather than overt external factors. He mentions that the idea of having no control in the situation is also key.

As to "inferior people" I see them as being our lower desires or little "I"s that can turn us into emotional fruitcakes of anticipation which again reflects the blockage and thwarting of the needs in this line. But as you say, it may be necessary to leave the door open in case some fishes or a fish swims back with glad tidings.

Hmmm. Maybe we'll have to wait until Mousse to get back to us on this...;)

Topal
 
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mousse

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Hello Topal,

Thanks for your insights. Well...the situation is this guy just doesn't exactly want he wants. I guess : go back with his ex (kinda safe choice: he knows her) or date me ( taking risks, someone new). I don't know if the intimate potential is there or not. He seemed really interested in me before ;). Friendship potential I don't kow. I guess it would be ackward now because between us, it wasn't friendship. It was more a "seductive" relationship (sorry for my broken english).

However, I decided to leave the door open. I'll see. Like I wrote previously I asked about the evolution of our relationship. I received 52.5>53. I thiks it reflects well the situation: for now, nothing moves. But slow progress with 53. What do you think about it?
For now, there is nothing I can do except wait. He has to make up his mind. Going back with his ex or not? The choice is his. Yes I'm disappointed and surprised by his behaviour: but nothing I can do.

Thank you for your help! Cheers,

Mousse
 

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