Hex 35.6 relationship question?

[SophiaNY]

Hello again,

I have a situation where I'm wondering whether I should text someone (he lives elsewhere) on their birthday (or send any kind of greeting). We've been on a 'break' in our relationship for a while, and I'm uncertain whether I want to break the silence since it seems to me the initiative needs to come from his end (since it was his doing). I've just been trying to lay low and do my work. On the other hand, I don't wish to be 'mean' about it (and he was lovely about my birthday some months back). So I asked Yi what approach I should take to his birthday, and I got 35.6 >16. This was a bit more enthusiastic than I was expecting? Am I correct in reading this as yes, do it, don't be afraid?

Thanks so much.

 

[mulberry]

Wait, are you sure you read the right line? Because 35.6 is pretty clearly not positive in this situation nor an indicator to take action. It is not enthuasiastic at all about making contact.

"Making progress with lowered horns-i.e., acting on the offensive-is permissible, in times like those referred to here, only in dealing with the mistakes of one's own people." And, "Even then we must bear in mind that proceeding on the offensive may always be dangerous."

Contacting him, even with a simple birthday message, is proceeding on the offensive. Particularly considering that it was he who broke off contact previously. Is he one of your "own people"? Maybe he was at one time and perhaps will be again someday-- but not currently, since you are not presently in contact at all. But even if he was one of your "own", there is the reminder from Yi that proceeding on the offensive may still be "dangerous". This reading is not encouraging contact or action.

And finally, there is the warning about humiliation coming from over-energetic behavior "especially
toward persons with whom there is no close connection" (using Wilhelm for all these quotes). At the moment, there is no close connection with this man for you. (Again, maybe there was at one point and, who knows, will be in the future as well-- but there is not any right now.)

I would definitely recommend against contacting him for any reason at the present time, at least in light of this reading. It seems to predict humiliation/upset as a result.

 

[SophiaNY]

Oh wow. Thanks mulberry. Yes, I was reading that line. I was reading it as challenging my own fears and proceeding, and that 'constancy, shame' (from the description of line 6 on this website) to mean that by staying with what I've been doing (not reaching out) it would be wrong. Gah! I'm so bad at this!

Edit:
I took a look online and found a Wilhelm translation. I don't think I would have been so positive if I had read that one first! I then also took a look at Karcher:

"Flourishing with lowered horns. A Rising Sun.
Adversity, hungry souls and angry ghosts.
Hold fast and attack the capital.
Wise Words! The Way is open.
Trial for distress: this is not a mistake."

The Way is not shining yet. You can control the situation through direct action. Hold fast and deal with your own troubles first. You have to confront the negative images you have of things, based on past experience. This is difficult, but it opens the WAy. Though you may feel distressed, this is not a mistake. Attack and take the capital city.
Direction: Gather energy to respond when the call comes. Re-imagine the situation. Gather energy for a decisive new move.


This one seems like it could go either way...but as I said, I'm new at this and not very good at it. Maybe I need to reflect and ask Yi further...

 

[mulberry]

Well, there's no one right way to interpret the lines, and don't get down on yourself too much. If you are just beginning to use the I Ching, and relying entirely on online platforms for interpretation, I recommend going and buying 1 or 2 books... My favorite is Wilhelm (every time I've tried someone else, I've quickly returned to Wilhelm). But I also recommend Carol Anthony's "A Guide to the I Ching" from 1988. That book was an immense help when I was first learning. I don't have it in front of me, or I'd look up what she said about 35.6, though I do think her interpretations tend to be a bit overly introspective/gentle/New Age-y sometimes. There is often a literal aspect to the I Ching (it can be very uncanny, deft, and occasionally humorous or clever in its responses) and as the years have passed, I've become braver and less averse to resisting the scarier readings when they come up. They're often very useful. Your reading wasn't scary per se, but perhaps it wasn't what you were hoping to get either. It is helpful to be willing to accept whatever the reading is, and not throw castings look for confirmation of what you might be hoping for (though of course everyone is guilty of this sometimes).

I went off on a bit of tangent here-- not all of it necessarily applies to your specific situation, of course!

 

[SophiaNY]

I returned to Yi and decided to ask about each path.

I first asked "what is the energy around not doing anything for this occasion?"
I got 39.5 > 15.
My sense is that it's saying it will be hard to not reach out, but the easier course of action in terms of not fighting an uphill struggle, and one with integrity. Maybe I'll even be supported!

I asked "what is the energy around doing something to reach out?"
I got 44.2.3.4.5. > 23
I have no idea what to make of the actual advice, the multitude of changing lines, and 44 completely confuses me anyway, but I don't see anything positive in it so.....

Edit:
Argh! I looked at Karcher again, and his line 39.5 is more like 'don't give up, dissolve obstacles to misunderstanding, stay humble', and the top line of 44.5 is that this is a beautiful inspiration! Oh geez. I'm just going to go back to work and let it sit.

 

[SophiaNY]

My post must have just crossed with yours. Thanks for the helpful advice!

 

[mulberry]

Yikes, 44 is one of the most inauspicious hexagrams and all those changing lines reinforce it. It's about inferior elements gaining a foothold in a situation, and the "superior man" allowing these bad elements a hit of energy, a way in, to disrupt and damage the whole. Temptation, in short. You should carefully read each line and consider the advice they contain. It seems to be a reminder to you to resist action. If you're reading Wilhelm, you can read the "inferiors" in this situation as aspects of yourself, or as your not-so-great desires and urges, which your better nature should keep in check.

The resulting hex of 23 makes me think (if it's literal) that reaching out to him right now would lead to a much more permanent "splitting apart". Or, if that hexagram is acting more as a static background for the question as a whole, it reinforces the fact of the present estrangement and Yi is reminding you about it.

I see nothing in this reading to encourage reaching out, and a lot of warnings to hold back and keep the "inferiors" in check. "The inferior thing seems so harmless and inviting that a man delights in it; it looks so small and weak that he imagines he may dally with it and come to no harm." <-- the inferior thing I read as your desire to reach out to him, despite his wish for no contact, just to see what would happen. You may think you can indulge it, but Yi is saying you will regret it.

As far as not reaching out-- 39.5 is quite pleasant. I'd go with that wholesale. Perhaps if you do nothing now, he will get in contact with you of his own accord, or perhaps friends will eventually intercede. At any rate, it's a far more auspicious reading than 44.2.3.4.5.

 

[ginnie]

What did he do for your birthday some months back?

 

[mulberry]

Honestly I think you need to back off from Karcher for a bit. His interpretations are very poetic and often lean towards the very grandiose and positive...perhaps this isn't quite the right idiom, but I do tend to think "putting lipstick on a pig"-- the pig (no offense to pigs-- I love them) being more negative or dark readings. He is big on positive spin, but a lot of the content and meanings gets lost in the process. He also doesn't really translate from the Chinese (from what I understand). He interprets other translations. I think you need something more basic and-- sorry to Karcher or his fans-- precise and correct.

I recommend Wilhelm, Anthony, Legge, LiSe... But skip Karcher until you have a better handle on his sources.

 

[SophiaNY]

Thanks again mulberry. You may not believe it, but I actually haven't wanted to do anything to reach out. I'm pretty clear where we both stand--he has things to sort out and only he can do that. And I have other things I need to deal with right now that are urgent. I just didn't want to be 'mean' and make some big statement by not even texting, you know?

Ginnie, he took me out, dinner, theater, etc. But our relationship has evolved to greater distance since then...

 

[mulberry]

It's very good you don't want to reach out, because the readings seem to indicate a negative outcome for you if do. So, stay the course! And rest assured that even if he takes it as "mean" (though why would he have any right to think that, considering that he is the one who broke off contact?), it is still the right course of action for you, according to Yi.

 

[ginnie]

Ginnie, he took me out, dinner, theater, etc.

He sounds like a guy who puts a lot of importance on birthday celebrations. For this reason if I were you I'd try to briefly text him on his birthday, if you want to continue with the relationship at a distance.

 

[SophiaNY]

Thanks Ginnie. I hadn't thought of it that way! It's true, he's always very considerate about birthdays and holidays etc. In that light, saying nothing becomes a kind of statement I'm not sure I want to make either. I just wanted to lay low. Hmm...

 

[Liselle]

Ginnie, at the risk of butting into a thread to argue (a tiny bit, anyway) - wasn't Sophia's birthday dinner, etc. before he broke up with her? Do you think that's even relevant to what Sophia should do now?

Having said that, it might be that 35.6 > 16 is not completely discouraging. One possibility could be that there's nothing wrong with sending a brief text, as Ginnie said, but that's all. Don't expect an acknowledgement, don't be disappointed if you don't get one, and then don't communicate any more unless he replies in a way that invites further response (that's the "Constancy: shame" part - if you are overly "constant," such as sending more than one brief text or responding in a disproportionate way - you will be shamed).

If you do send a text, it might be best to keep it light and impersonal. Something like, "Just wanted to wish you a happy birthday - hope you're having a good day!" Nothing flowery or emotional (which might also be forms of ill-advised "constancy").

 

[SophiaNY]

It's kind of you all to take an interest to help out. Thank you!

It's not been an 'unfriendly' break. He's always texted around big events/holidays (not that there have been that many since this break, but we had a break once before, and even then he did text on my birthday). But, I know myself and it will be hard not to go down a rabbit-hole around his possible response/non-response.

I don't want to stir up drama either way. I was doing best, I feel, with just letting him and us 'be', and focusing elsewhere on my own life, since everyone is clear that the issues lie on his side and only he can sort them. (So yes, I had no intention of anything flowery or seeking of renewed relationship etc. in my potential text...just 'happy birthday! God bless!' sort of thing).

Maybe let it sit a few days and then ask Yi for further clarification? I did wonder last night if 35.6 was also perhaps an admonishment to sort out my own 'city' first, before sending him anything, so that I don't wind up all wound up?

 

[Liselle]

It's not been an 'unfriendly' break. He's always texted around big events/holidays (not that there have been that many since this break, but we had a break once before, and even then he did text on my birthday).

Well, if the two of you have a habit of sending each other short messages on birthdays and holidays, even during breaks, then there's probably nothing wrong with doing it now. Actually, I'm a little bit puzzled why you're suddenly worried about it, if it's kind of standard procedure for the two of you?

Or...does he text you, but you don't text him? How has this worked in the past when you've been on a break? Do you each text the other on big days, or has it always been one-sided (him texting you, but you not texting him)? Am confused, sorry...

 

[SophiaNY]

In the past, if it was a holiday, he would always text and I respond, and if it was a big day for him I would text, and a big day for me he would text (and the other always respond with a thank you). For a while, I would also sometimes text just to say hi. But I've stopped that lately, because this break has--I feel--become more serious, and I want to respect both of our processes during it. So that's probably why I feel a bit differently...

 

[Liselle]

Oh, okay.

I guess I still agree with Ginnie that there's no harm in a birthday greeting, as long as you're careful not to go too far? But 35.6 could probably be seen as just a no, too.

I'm more confused now about the 39.5 reading! "What if I don't do anything?" "Friends come!" That is a very simple response; but the opposite of what you'd expect. Mulberry may be right, that if you don't acknowledge his birthday, he'll get in touch with you (although something like "Whyyyy didn't you text me on my birthdayyyyy???" seems odd, but who knows.)

Sometimes hexagram 39 can refer to a turn of events you can't know about yet. I remember this thread, where the querent received hexagram 39 in three consecutive readings, with line 39.5 in two of those. We had no idea what Yi meant, since despite this very simple, very optimistic message, the situation itself seemed quite dire, with no solution in sight. But then a solution did pop up, unexpectedly, to at least a major part of the problem.

 

[SophiaNY]

LOL I'm chuckling at the "Whyyyy didn't you text me on my birthdayyyyy??"

On my next big coffee break I'll go check out that thread--sounds really interesting, thank you.

I guess I'm pondering in the back of my mind (as still new to this), how much is Yi predictive, and how much simply an extraordinary mirror of my own energies in considering a course of action? I think the latter is still hugely helpful, not least since we co-shape the future with others, but from what I read others see it also as objectively predictive (though I try not to ask predictive questions, or questions about other people)...and from what I also read, it isn't always known to the querent until later whether what you received was more about you or more objectively about the way the situation would unfold? Lots to ponder!

 

[mulberry]

For me the answer of whether to text is a clear "no" based off you getting 44 as a reply to your question of what the energies would be around reaching out with a birthday message. 44 is about playing with danger and letting it sneak up on you. The multitude of changing lines that accompanied the response only reinforces how dynamic the reading was in this reply. It doesn't sound like he would be literally physically dangerous to you-- but perhaps psychologically this would open an unpleasant, distracting, and ultimately unhappy path. Yi is warning you that something that seems harmless right now actually isn't-- so avoid it. The positive reading in response to your question about doing nothing just confirms this.

 

[SophiaNY]

Thanks mulberry. I see your point. But what I am wondering is that since the question was about what the energy is around it, how do I know Yi wasn't reflecting back my energy...which clearly is fraught (or I wouldn't be asking Yi)..and definitely has the potential to be distracting. In the same way 39.5 also accurately showed my inner state (and maybe hope?) of wanting to stay quiet, maybe hoping help will come. As I said, I'm not discounting their predictive value but not sure--given my question-what the answer is showing.

But I decided to go back and ask Yi specifically for advice, to try and clarify.
I asked for advice regarding "not texting" and got 53.5 > 52
I asked for advice regarding "texting" and got 55.4

To me this seems like middle ground, leaning towards texting? It seems like, if I don't text, the advice is it just underlines the current non-status of our relationship anyway, and maybe in a way that is negative, but won't be determinative of anything long term. If I do text, I should do so with wisdom and restraint?

 

[mulberry]

At the risk of encouraging you to ask so many questions that you annoy the oracle (apologies if you get 4 following this!), I think you should consider structuring your questions more firmly...right now they're a bit wishy-washy.

How about, "What would be the outcome for my own path and stability if I were to text him for his birthday?"

Or, "What would come, for me personally, of texting him on his birthday?"

"What do I need to know about the results of not texting him?"

Something more firm than "energies" and "advice".

I also agree with what Lisa pointed out-- if the nice things he did for your birthday came before the time when he broke up with you, then you certainly don't owe him anything.

At any rate, I find 44 such a strong warning in general (it's been very clear when it's appeared in my life, and helpful) that I wouldn't risk lingering on thoughts that it might just be reflecting on your own muddled state about it. That's twisting the I Ching a bit much. You asked-- though in vague language-- what would come of texting him for his birthday...and this is what it showed you.

I wonder, if you do text him, and he texts back eagerly and happily-- what then? If he proposes meeting, what do you do? It's worth thinking these things through. 44 describes a situation where an "inferior" element worms its way through solid defenses because the "superior" person (you, in your best nature) let down their guard. Is he someone you want back in your life? If you text, and he texts back, where does it stop? I'd take Yi's original advice (going all the way back to 35.6 and further emphasized in 44.2.3.4.5) and let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Liselle]

Mulberry, since the 44>23 reading ends in 44.5, do you think Yi is saying that ignoring the birthday might be the best way to actually nurture this relationship?

(Is Yi advising some sort of "play hard-to-get" strategy? )



[Edited: Cross-posted with not one, but TWO comments - so if this comment seems like I haven't been paying attention, that's why...]

[Edited again: Er, the first sentence was supposed to be a question for Mulberry, not a statement. "...do you think Yi is saying..." - I fixed it.]

 

[SophiaNY]

I appreciate all your thoughts. I thought 'advice' was pretty clear, and more objective to Yi (and less about me) than I usually ask. I'll sit with it all.

 

[SophiaNY]

Lisa, I've been wondering the same thing about the 'hard-to-get' part...quite funny isn't it...part of why I asked those clarifying questions!

 

[mulberry]

Or-- perhaps give it a rest for a few days, and on his actual bday, ask a very solid question like, "What would come for me personally, in my life situation, of texting him to wish happy birthday?" Then take it from there. Good luck! Do update the thread if you think of it too.

 

[SophiaNY]

Thanks mulberry.

 

[mulberry]

Oh, Lisa, I just saw your post! Hmm...my personal philosophy is to consider all changing lines, not just the final one. But, yes, just reading line 5 I'd take it as advice for Sophia to benevolently hold in check any "inferiors" (inferiors maybe being impulses to text him, or feelings of obligation to do so-- or maybe "inferiors" is the ex himself or their relationship), for both her benefit and that of the others. From the whole conversation around these questions and lines, I take it that the relationship may not be permanently over, but little would be gained from Sophia initiating contact now, and actually she risks a lot of stability and happiness in doing so. I'd just wait for another time.

 

[Liselle]

Hmm...my personal philosophy is to consider all changing lines, not just the final one.

Well, yes, I wrote that badly. All the changing lines are important; I'm not trying to reduce the reading to just one line.

What I meant to say (rather than what I did say) is that line 5 is in the reading. And also, sometimes (not always) when there are several changing lines, the lines are telling a story. In this case, if there is a story here at all, it could be something like:

44.2 - in principle, there is something real in this relationship - but keep it to yourself for now
44.3 - doing that will feel awkward and difficult
44.4 - but now is not the time to actually act on it (you won't catch anything at this moment)
44.5 - but, bide your time during this "incubation period" (Hilary's words, from her book), don't do anything to injure it, and it might come to you on its own. (Although Hilary does go on to say, in her commentary for this line, that what comes to you may not end up being something you'll actually want, as Mulberry also said in post #22.)

Do you think that makes any sense? Or not?

This is certainly a tricky one. The I Ching can be exhausting!

 

[Trojina]

I returned to Yi and decided to ask about each path.

I first asked "what is the energy around not doing anything for this occasion?"
I got 39.5 > 15.
My sense is that it's saying it will be hard to not reach out, but the easier course of action in terms of not fighting an uphill struggle, and one with integrity. Maybe I'll even be supported!

I asked "what is the energy around doing something to reach out?"
I got 44.2.3.4.5. > 23
I have no idea what to make of the actual advice, the multitude of changing lines, and 44 completely confuses me anyway, but I don't see anything positive in it so.....

Edit:
Argh! I looked at Karcher again, and his line 39.5 is more like 'don't give up, dissolve obstacles to misunderstanding, stay humble', and the top line of 44.5 is that this is a beautiful inspiration! Oh geez. I'm just going to go back to work and let it sit.

I've not read much of other's responses so am just giving my impression fresh....No don't reach out. If you reach out you are pushing too much as 35.6 suggested. 23 is pretty important here with all those change lines. Also you have 28 as yang change pattern , 27 as yin . It gives me the idea that was all too much...fresh pastures are needed (27) 44>23 is not a great cast for reaching out in order to continue a relationship. Look at the 23....it's on it's way out.


I mean if you want to reach out I imagine there's no great harm other than you feel rejected...because it doesn't work

39.5 suggests things sort themselves out without you doing anything