Hex 44.1.2 : 13 Complicated Love? Situation

[bubu747]

Hello everyone, my name is Esteban, and i´ve been trying i Ching for a while, sometimes i get responses that i can understand or at leasts see where they are going, and sometimes, on some situations. I´m really lost,
this is my first post on this forum. As googling for info did not help me too much on this issue, i think it makes more sense to ask some peers that have more experience with this divination form. It´s hard for me to ask for help sometimes. I feel its a bother to other people. But now, i feel quite a bit lonely. and I really need some guidance.

intro: It´s been a couple of years of a relationship ( 3years together, one year separated, then the last 2 since we came back ), in the middle of that relationship we broke up, it was my fault / or my decision, she always was there for me. We had a really strong and powerful love at the beginning, but after a while it just went bad. I was doing drugs and behaving badly/ unnoble. I didn't respect myself and of course, her. And ended up broken up our relationship. For a year we did not see each other or speak. After that year, somehow we ended up coming together, it was hard at the beginning, a lot of doubts and insecurities. We did have a good time for a while, but then my shitty, dictator personality emerged . Complaining about her what was ultimately my responsibility ruined the good we had, she is insecure, and also sometimes a bit toxic as well,
recently we distanced ourselves. I asked the I Ching if it there was something i should do ? She now seems that she made up her mind to move on and separate.

I think both love each other a lot. We want to be together, and it´s so frustrating that this dark parts of our psyche ( competing , insecurities and so on are on the way of a relationship that went thru a lot ). Also, after we came back, we never really made it public, no pictures of us on social and so on.


there are so much stuff i could add to try to give you guys context but i rather give you a general context of me and her.



I can´t seem to understand what the i Ching is telling me, should i avoid contact ? disappear ? should i make an effort and concentrate on what i´m doing to boycott my relationship ? what about the 13 ? if we manage to get back, and try once more, should i make it public ? like, show her that im committed ?



after all this time, i love her and i know all of this is mostly my fault. Should i let her go ?


Thanks and blessings to you all.

Esteban

 

[bubu747]

I did another question, is there a chance ¨we can get back together if i change what is hurting our relationship?¨ and got
hexagram 26.6 : 11.

 

[IrfanK]

I did another question, is there a chance ¨we can get back together if i change what is hurting our relationship?¨ and got
hexagram 26.6 : 11.

Certainly looks like there will be some great positive outcome from your making that attempt to change, but whether it means you'll actually get back with the woman isn't so sure. But worth the effort, even if it leads somewhere else.

Did you ask two questions? What was the first?

 

[rosada]

He first asked the I Ching if there was something he should do and got 44.1.2=13.

 

[bubu747]

@IrfanK thanks for your quick reply, sorry english is not my mother language, and when i`m overwhelmed by feelings like this it´s hard for me to articulate properly. The first question was if ¨i should make an attempt to get back with her or if there was something i could do ¨. Basically to know if it would be counter productive to reach out.

 

[diamant]

if i should make an attempt to get back with her or if there was something i could do
44.1.2 > 13
Definitely not a good idea to make a move towards her now. She would stop you in your tracks (44.1), and I'm afraid it sounds like she's with someone else for now (44.2), and she would tell you the dreadful let's be friends (13). I wouldn't do anything towards her if I were you and got this reading.

is there a chance we can get back together if i change what is hurting our relationship?
26.6 > 11
This is one of my most favourite casts. Certainly do reflect on your mistakes, and act to correct those behaviours of yours which are destructive. Once you do that, the sky is the limit. You will then be able to move in any direction you please. You will have all roads open to you. Once you're in that strong position, I doubt that you yourself will even want to return to a toxic and poisoned relationship.

 

[bubu747]

@diamant thank you so much for all that information. I called her ( I know... ), and yes, I was stopped on my tracks. she got upset. I expressed what I felt, and we hanged up.

I'm afraid it sounds like she's with someone else for now (44.2)

could there be any other possible interpretations ?
I asked her a couple days ago and she said no. I wouldn't be upset if she said yes tbh...
Now that you mention that I want to know, but at the same time... what would I get from knowing …


after hanging I cried a lot, and asked the i Ching what should I do now? not regarding at her, but asking for me... what should I do with myself

and got 56.1.2 to 14

is this the idea i should need to start over somewhere else, be like moving to another country ?
I used to live in Germany and got back to Argentina ( where I was born ).
Since I came back, I don't feel that good. I have my career ( I'm a musician ) and friends there and I feel very isolated and lonely here and the leaving again is something I've had in my thoughts for a while now.



again, thank you so much @diamant for your thoughts on my situation.

E.

 

[diamant]

could there be any other possible interpretations ?

Yes. That she was eating her favourite fish at that moment when you called her, and it pissed her off very much to be interrupted.

I hope I made you smile with this comment. I'm really sorry you're hurting so much. It sounds like you're in a very vulnerable state. Especially because you have no friends there and you feel isolated.

what should I do with myself? 56.1.2 > 14

56.1 shows a traveller who does small jobs here and there, to make a living. That means he does not have a steady job or trade, so he does a variety of bits and pieces. Because he's not proficient in any of those small jobs, he sooner or later has an accident/misfortune. So first of all, reconsider your professional life to avoid misfortune.

56.2 here the traveller has made some money, and he keeps it safe and close to his chest, i.e. he has made some savings. So he goes to a hotel and in this manner finds a young servant (presumably a young person who works at the hotel). Do you view your romantic relationships as temporary (hotel), do you view your partners as servants? I'm making this guess because you described yourself as dictatorial.

The result of the above path of life is 14, a lot of money and possessions, or perhaps a lot of small jobs and a lot of hotels and servants. Your professional life is risky, but it can still produce some money. Then the temporary servants can also provide some benefit. The question is, are all these making you happy? It sounds like not. Here you are today, feeling sad about a lost relationship which you didn't handle well in the past, and feeling sad about not having friends. In the light of all this, what to do with yourself - I would say review, carefully, your actions and their consequences. Make a plan for the future, as to how you plan to act differently so as to have different results. I hope this helps. Don't give up, change is possible when you really want it.

 

[bubu747]

Yes. That she was eating her favourite fish at that moment when you called her, and it pissed her off very much to be interrupted.

Yes you made me smile!





Thanks so much to take that time to reply to me and offer me so much insight. I've been reading and reflecting myself on the meaning on this particular draw and its been also very interesting to learn.
I got to do a lot of reading on older posts of this forum with similar draws. Reading the replies and trying to understand under different views.


So here is my interpretation, with bits from here and there.

What I think reading more info about 44, is that I just need to let the situation be, not try to posses it or control it ( marrying the woman ) , might just leave it as it is and see where it goes. This is an uncontrollable force, that could indeed bring changes and transformation to my life, and doesn't have to be something bad. Maybe the relationship wasn't meant to be, maybe it's better for both to leave the space for something new. Or maybe this is a reminder that stuff needs to be changed, that there is indeed danger of this not going well but the outcome the 13 maybe tells me it's the purpose of this 44.

Quoting from a different site on the 13:

T’ung Jen is a hexagram that explores your principles, character, integrity, and how you interact with others

In joining with another, the relationship will allow you to share a special connection, but is not always a romantic or harmonious interaction .This is because there is more of an emphasis on gaining Clarity about how you behave in relationship to others. Yet, there is a lot to learn from these partnerships.

The hidden influence of Coming to Meet allows for the exploration of the Shadow in your relationships. It is an opportunity to own the dynamics you bring to your relationships rather than blame others for your condition. If you can discover even the smallest insight about yourself through a relationship, regardless of its duration, it has been successful

And that's what I think in a way. I need to learn to stop repeating the same pattern, we split the first time for the same thing. My incontrollable childish traumas, the weird ways I have to relate to others. How I see myself.


After searching on the forum this is @hilary on 44


44.1

Can you contain the Coupling power, bring it under control? That’s the first positive recommendation of the hexagram:

‘Held fast by a golden chock. Constancy: good fortune.
With a direction to go, see the pitfall:
A scrawny pig can be trusted to kick and struggle.’

That’s the only time we see ‘good fortune’ in Hexagram 44: when it’s being contained and held fast. If you identify with the impulse, let it become your direction, then you look a great deal like that pig. Stop and steady the ship; beware of unconscious desires that, left unchecked, might end up running the whole show.

What I understand about this line in my situation is that I just need to stay in my place. Not reach out, not do anything. Avoiding the pitfall. Instead focus on being alert of my own drives. Take control of myself instead of just being pulled around by my own emotions and end up doing stupid things harmful things.

44.2

This is a fertility image and omen: a basket lowered into the river to catch fish. If you trap some, this bodes well for a marriage and future fertility – as in line 2:

‘In this basket there are fish.
No mistake.
Not fruitful to entertain guests.’

So the omens are good, or at least not actively bad; now, you need to hold onto the potential and not get ahead of yourself. Margaret Pearson thinks of this as the early stages of pregnancy, to be safeguarded with quiet and Retreat (Hexagram 33, revealed by this line change). SJ Marshall pointed out to us that ‘entertaining guests’ also means the bin rite, performed to introduce the new bride to the groom’s ancestors: you don’t want to go that far yet, just on the strength of a few fish. Drawing on both these ideas, I wrote in my book, “What you do not have is a guarantee of results. It is far too early to introduce your hope to a wider context and expect it to bear fruit. For now, it should have your inner space to itself, free from premature expectations. You can best care for any long term possibilities by not presuming on them.”

Maybe its better to just have a clear mind, empty mind regarding this. Don't add more pressure. Maybe even just take it as it's actually over instead of clinging on some hope. Just another experience to learn from. Not the first not the last. But hopefully one that I can pay attention to and grow in knowledge. Or maybe we end up coming back. We'll see..




also @diamant

56.1 shows a traveller who does small jobs here and there, to make a living. That means he does not have a steady job or trade, so he does a variety of bits and pieces. Because he's not proficient in any of those small jobs, he sooner or later has an accident/misfortune. So first of all, reconsider your professional life to avoid misfortune.

Wow this is spot on! Right now, after the pandemic I lost my main source of income and I'm doing bits and pieces here and there to be able to survive. Now I need to reconsider what to do next with my career. Thank you so much for that !!!

56.2 here the traveller has made some money, and he keeps it safe and close to his chest, i.e. he has made some savings. So he goes to a hotel and in this manner finds a young servant (presumably a young person who works at the hotel). Do you view your romantic relationships as temporary (hotel), do you view your partners as servants? I'm making this guess because you described yourself as dictatorial.

Well... It could be.. Never thought about that. Maybe subconsciously, because when I am in love I feel really in love.

56.2 means that I might be financially stable in the future ? Because I think that this last question is regarding what to do with my life. My great fear right now it's not be able to support myself economically because of what you said before, I'm just doing bits and pieces now that doesn't really represent me or my aspirations ...

The result of the above path of life is 14, a lot of money and possessions, or perhaps a lot of small jobs and a lot of hotels and servants. Your professional life is risky, but it can still produce some money. Then the temporary servants can also provide some benefit.

I think the 14th might actually gave me a positive outlook if I do things right. Right ?

I would say review, carefully, your actions and their consequences. Make a plan for the future, as to how you plan to act differently so as to have different results. I hope this helps. Don't give up, change is possible when you really want it.

If I connect it with the first question that you helped me clarify.

26.6 > 11
This is one of my most favourite casts. Certainly do reflect on your mistakes, and act to correct those behaviours of yours which are destructive. Once you do that, the sky is the limit. You will then be able to move in any direction you please. You will have all roads open to you. Once you're in that strong position, I doubt that you yourself will even want to return to a toxic and poisoned relationship.

Maybe the 14 and the 11 are telling me that If I do the work. If I look inside and question where I am going and where I want to go in life there will be success ?

What do you think ??



E.

 

[PhoenixtheElder]

Dear ngly747 I read your life situation and it does seem complicated, undisciplined, and youthful. The difficult thing about maturing is we get a few chances at something and if we don't change, then there is loss. Wisdom means becoming aware of our choices so we don't repeat them. Once we stop repeating them, then we become wise. That path is slow with many failures, but its good to keep trying to rise above the little self, the controlling emperor. There is a difference of course between loss and sacrifice. Sacrifice means that you are willing to change and give up what you lost in order to release the lower self.

The I Ching is not a divination tool like Tarot or Astrology, which is based on the "other" or fortunes and outcomes. The I Ching, QiJing, or any of the other five, when we get receive the Hexagram when asking for help, is about us and our behavior changing. It's not about the "other" in a situation we are struggling with. The Hexagrams are actually small mini-disciplines that we get to practice in order to overcome one particular lower-natured behavior. When we begin to heal our own issues, rather than focus on "her" or "we" then we've entered the path that does the greatest good to bring us back to peace, balance, and harmony, and the greatest good for everyone concerned.

Try to focus on that path, the one that makes the greatest difference in our lives in ten or twenty years. The nature of real wisdom paths is that they are very slow and involve our entire being.

 

[diamant]

I think the 14th might actually gave me a positive outlook if I do things right. Right?
In my opinion 14 shows that your current lifestyle can only bring you money and material possessions in the future. If that is your highest goal in life, then it's positive. If you value other things, then it's negative.

Maybe the 14 and the 11 are telling me that If I do the work. If I look inside and question where I am going and where I want to go in life there will be success?
The 26.6 > 11 is a sign of good luck: if you put in real effort, it will produce results and you will be successful.

 

[Trojina]

could there be any other possible interpretations ?
I asked her a couple days ago and she said no. I wouldn't be upset if she said yes tbh...
Now that you mention that I want to know, but at the same time... what would I get from knowing …

Of course, yes there can be other interpretations. Yi readings are not facts and factual conclusions, especially about a third party, your ex, are not available to us via Yi or any other divinatory means. For facts use factual means, I'd take what she says here as your best guide to the truth. If she is lying we don't that so that's up to your judgement.

In any reading many interpretations can be given, the most important of which is your own.

You can see there can be many interpretations for the same reading just by looking casts up in the hexagram search which is here

For a year we did not see each other or speak. After that year, somehow we ended up coming together, it was hard at the beginning, a lot of doubts and insecurities. We did have a good time for a while, but then my shitty, dictator personality emerged . Complaining about her what was ultimately my responsibility ruined the good we had, she is insecure, and also sometimes a bit toxic as well,
recently we distanced ourselves. I asked the I Ching if it there was something i should do ? She now seems that she made up her mind to move on and separate.

So you got 44.1.2>13 for asking if there was something you should do?

Surely if it's what you want, to get back together with her, there is no harm in trying? If you don't try you'll never know and I say that as just ordinary human sense. You can't not try because you believe the I Ching is telling you not to. There's no harm just talking to her and asking her is there? She may well refuse you in which case well you did all you could and you'd have to accept that and it would hurt but I'm not keen on not exploring because of Yi answers.


The reading does however seem to be referring to a need for self control in line 1

'Held fast by a metal chock. Perseverance: good fortune.
With a direction to go, see the pitfall:
A scrawny pig can be trusted to kick and pull back.'


There's a great restlessness and discomfort here, a great desire to move but you are being asked not to be governed by your impulses. That doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't try to get her back it's just rushing into things, wanted the sorted straight away could be frustrating.

44.2 is an interesting line, you can see by using the hexagram search function there are all kinds of ways of looking at this line. It says

'In the trap there are fish.
No mistake.
No harvest in entertaining guests.'

The idea is there's something here but it's time to keep it private, not let others in. It could be saying to bide your time or that whilst there is something still there between you you cannot make this an 'official' or open relationship yet. In wikiwing there is talk of 'bin rites' connected with this line. I think these were the rites that made a marriage ready to proceed and it is saying this isn't the time for that yet.


It is interesting you have 13 as the relating hexagram, as if your overall social environment has a role to play in all this? Perhaps both of you belong to the same groups or your families are connected, or it's a small town or something like that but my sense of it here is this factor is helpful, cools you down, slows you down. It's not just you and her in isolation, you and she are perhaps part of a wider social scene whether familial or just friends or work, not sure. Rather than this getting in the way it seems here to hold you both together. Hard to explain what I mean but I see it as similar to colleagues perhaps having a rough time together whilst still being together with all their other colleagues. The fact all these others are there kind of impacts how they can continue to function.


I don't feel the reading is telling you what to do exactly more like showing how it is. And maybe she won't have you back, I don't know, but if you really want that what harm is there in telling her? At this point though perhaps you need to be fairly restrained in communication. She can know what you want without you having to be forceful about it or issue ultimatums or anything like that. If you do approach her keep it low key and simple, no pressure 'I miss you very much' things like that.

We did have a good time for a while, but then my shitty, dictator personality emerged . Complaining about her what was ultimately my responsibility ruined the good we had, she is insecure, and also sometimes a bit toxic as well,

If someone takes all the responsibility for what went wrong slight alarm bells sound in my head because actually it's rare if one person is the whole problem. Presumably you have been through a lot of pain in life if you have turned to drugs, you needed an escape and making relationships isn't easy for you so maybe you did the best you could at the time in your own way. 26.6 looks very good for pursuing the changes you want to make though. Whether that means you will get back together I don't know, also consider this relationship may put your psyche under pressure you find hard to handle so it's a massive thing for you to change and to try to work it out with her again. It's maybe not just a question of her accepting you back but also asking yourself if you can cope with it if she does come back. In a sense you have to take care of you as a priority before attempting relationship again or putting pressure on yourself to have a good connection with her. You're struggling with all kinds of pressures that make you want to act right away(44.1) so hold back impulsive behaviour, give yourself time.


Oh re the 13 there will be other ways to interpret 13 there. To me with all the tempestuousness of 44, 13 looks quite calming. Perhaps if you do get back together it would help to make your relationship more part of the community, more open or as I said perhaps a community actually holds and supports the difficulty of the relationship.





Also 14 is to do with all kinds of having not just material things at all. If it were only material things it wouldn't be 'Big Having' it would be 'Big Emptiness' since none of us live on material things alone and of course it doesn't say it is just limited to material things. You didn't get 14 though except in 26.6>14 and in that reading line 6 is of paramount importance.

 

[Trojina]

Oh you got 14 as relating here too

after hanging I cried a lot, and asked the i Ching what should I do now? not regarding at her, but asking for me... what should I do with myself

and got 56.1.2 to 14

After 'hanging' ? What made you cry a lot?

For you things look good IMO, you can get things you want (14) and whilst you feel alone you aren't really looking at line 2 here. I don't know who it might be that accompanies you here. Line 1 is a caution not to get caught up in things that are really important to your life, remember you are journeying and a traveller has to travel light.

 

[moss elk]

The I Ching is not a divination tool like Tarot or Astrology, which is based on the "other" or fortunes and outcomes. The I Ching, QiJing, or any of the other five, when we get receive the Hexagram when asking for help, is about us and our behavior changing.

This is only partially true,
Therfore overall must be considered: false.

Because It doesn't take into consideration all the times Yi is talking about "others'
And 'success' and 'failure' calamity, death, and injury and others. I could start to list all such lines, but because such instances are so numerous, but because you haven't noticed it already, or directly experienced it,
I know my words would be wasted.

This sounds like something drawn from a religion or philosophy waaaay after the fact of Yi, and trying to insert itself there.

 

[bubu747]

Thank you so much @Trojina for your reply and for linking me to that Hexagram Finder. I was doing manual searches, and it worked, but that's even better and easier!! THANK YOU!

I had to take a day to reply, primarily because I'm trying to make sense of everything that's been said. The interpretations and what is going on in this side.
I'm truly grateful for all the responses.

I'm gonna reply and leave this as tidy as possible for someone looking for the same Hex and Lines:

So for my first question:
44.1.2>13

There's a great restlessness and discomfort here, a great desire to move but you are being asked not to be governed by your impulses. That doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't try to get her back it's just rushing into things, wanted the sorted straight away could be frustrating.

I think this is telling me about the anxiety I have for the whole situations, and tells me to hold it.
Because if i keep trying would be annoying for her and might be actually have the opposite effect on her.

The idea is there's something here but it's time to keep it private, not let others in. It could be saying to bide your time or that whilst there is something still there between you you cannot make this an 'official' or open relationship yet. In wikiwing there is talk of 'bin rites' connected with this line. I think these were the rites that made a marriage ready to proceed and it is saying this isn't the time for that yet.

Yes, it's time to be with myself, there are fish but not enough to share them. I read about the rites of introducing the woman to the parents to get married. But it's too soon now. I should wait and see what happens.

Oh re the 13 there will be other ways to interpret 13 there. To me with all the tempestuousness of 44, 13 looks quite calming. Perhaps if you do get back together it would help to make your relationship more part of the community, more open or as I said perhaps a community actually holds and supports the difficulty of the relationship.

This is confusing, but in a way. I'm known as a musician, and a lot of people know about my relationship with her...
So for that reason when we got back, it was hard for me to share that on socials.
That I think make her feel insecure, like, if i'm not sharing pictures of her, i might be hiding the relationship, or i might be flirting with other people... and so on.

After 'hanging' ? What made you cry a lot?

For you things look good IMO, you can get things you want (14) and whilst you feel alone you aren't really looking at line 2 here. I don't know who it might be that accompanies you here. Line 1 is a caution not to get caught up in things that are really important to your life, remember you are journeying and a traveller has to travel light.

Sorry, my english! I just wanted to say, after i hung up the phone, I cried.
Because you know, the frustration of losing someone, all the nice things, the nice moments, and not being able to have actually realized how important was all that... Feeling stupid for taking things for granted.


Line 1: Basically telling me to not get involved in petty things, try to reflect on my career decisions, and stop taking small, unimportant jobs, as they won't be of any help on my road.

Regarding line 2: I can't understand it... That's like the only one that I can't really grasp...
The hotel? the maid ? what does that mean ?

You didn't get 14 though except in 26.6>14 and in that reading line 6 is of paramount importance.

in this case its 26.6 > 11 not 14. regarding my question Can we get back together if correct what is hurting the relationship ?

26.6 looks very good for pursuing the changes you want to make though. Whether that means you will get back together I don't know, also consider this relationship may put your psyche under pressure you find hard to handle so it's a massive thing for you to change and to try to work it out with her again.

I totally agree with this. It's not that it's entirely my fault. Actually when we both got back. Both mistrust each other. There was provocations from both sides. But when this things happens it's natural to take the blame for a lot of things.

Yesterday I tried to get myself onto stuff that might be good for myself.
I got an appointment with a therapist which I'm going tomorrow, and also starting Aikido classes today.
found out that the dojo is 1,5 blocks from my house, and the therapist was really straight forward.



Which after reading on the forum and thru this page.
Maybe means that I'm under a lot of pressure, like a pressure cooker and Thru the 6, the release,

I might find...



peace... ?



Thank you @Trojina <3 you made my day, also to share a little bit of what happened yesterday as well...

I left my phone fixing close to her place ( before we broke up ).
So I yes or yes HAD to go there. And because I had some of her things. I thought would be OK to let her know and take her stuff and take mines..

So I did. We talked a bit, and obviously we were both really emotional, she told me she wasn't sure she wanted this, I agreed.
So we kissed and I told her, maybe we should just take some time, no pressure, no commitment, no " getting married " ( as the 2nd line on the 44 ) as to remove any pressure and at the same time, leave the door open....

So after I left, I did not reached her, nor today. I will see how things unfold with an open attitude. Focusing on improving myself.



Love,

E.

 

[Trojina]

Because you know, the frustration of losing someone, all the nice things, the nice moments, and not being able to have actually realized how important was all that... Feeling stupid for taking things for granted.

Yes I know that feeling.

Regarding line 2: I can't understand it... That's like the only one that I can't really grasp...
The hotel? the maid ? what does that mean ?

The line says


'Traveller comes to a resting place,
Cherishes his own,
Gains a young helper.
Constancy.'

This is finding someone who supports and helps you. It might be a friend or a lover or it might be her or perhaps someone new.

My mistake with the 14, it's this cast that changes to 14 not the 26.6

Reminding myself of what you asked

after hanging I cried a lot, and asked the i Ching what should I do now? not regarding at her, but asking for me... what should I do with myself

and got 56.1.2 to 14

is this the idea i should need to start over somewhere else, be like moving to another country ?
I used to live in Germany and got back to Argentina ( where I was born ).
Since I came back, I don't feel that good. I have my career ( I'm a musician ) and friends there and I feel very isolated and lonely here and the leaving again is something I've had in my thoughts for a while now

I like this cast. It shows you as a traveller finding what you need. Perhaps 56.1 is a caution not to give up your temporary resting place too easily. I can't recall which translation says this line shows 'chopping up your resting place' but there's the idea there's a danger of casting things aside too quickly, probably better to stay where you are for now than to keep changing. I wouldn't like to say it means 'don't leave where you are' but certainly don't rush into leaving because you think things aren't working. There does appear to be someone there to offer you support. This may be a predictive line here.