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Hexagram 11, Peace, unchanging

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ginnie

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Honestly, he seemed to create a fuzz in my mind.
Interesting

"Please advice me on whether or not to say anything to Adam at the current time". Answer: 59.4.5 > 64
We get 64 as our relating hexagram whenever we are trying to make fine distinctions between things or about people. 'The Superior Man takes care to distinguish between things before arranging them in order.'

59 has to do with ill-will towards other people and how it can be dispersed.

59.4 seems to be saying to disperse everybody, tell us all to go home, be alone. Have no friends and no enemies for a while.

59.5 speaks of a King who disperses his riches and this line can be interpreted in many ways. If you stay alone by yourself quietly, you will find the solution welling up into your conscious mind from the depths of your unconscious mind. There is no need to demonize this man or keep him in your memory as an enemy of some kind. We can feel deeply discordant with or troubled by another human being and still not make them 'wrong' or think of them as being wrongdoers. Life is rarely that simple.

One could just as easily say that you are entirely too sensitive, to have flown into such a tizzy ... That you over reacted. Do you see how Yi is saying it is possible to disperse any such thoughts -- that one person is 100% right and the other person is entirely wrong -- that correctness is only on one side and that is your side. Life is never that simple.

Sounds like the energy of this man was buffeting you -- as if he were attacking you or forcing himself on you. But realistically speaking, was that his intention? Or is that the way he is with everybody?

In other words, I'm saying that probably you experienced the full force of his personality, or his disorder, whatever, and he was not singling you out and harassing you.

And because you are a very sensitive individual, your sensations were highly unpleasant and your mind felt affected. In this rough-and-tumble world, your sensitivity is much greater than average. That can be seen as a kind of deficit, too.

Sometimes I think we have to set ourselves into our own contexts in order for us to see ourselves and other people correctly. In this rough-and-tumble world, his dynamism and driven quality are probably great advantages.

Pardon the lecture, but I think the message of 59.4.5 > 64 is to make many fine distinctions and to let the ill-will, the fearfulness and the hostility that has been aroused, all release and go away.
 

arabella

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The last time I got Hexagram 11 -- a couple weeks ago -- it was in relation to a man who has physically abused people any number of times. Trying to calm down and transcend the destruction he represents in my life. When I met him that surely didn't show. He was a prominent performer who came with a resume a mile long, good looking and seemingly jovial. And in the years I've known him he's terrorised my family, children included, and emptied my pockets. I'm well shut of him [almost] but not before he's reeked destruction in all parts of my life. Verdict: he is brain-damaged in relation to social interaction. In the beginning we were involved because I found his OTT exuberance exhilarating and on the flip side -- once I heard his tales of woe felt "sorry" for him. It's all an act and I bought a very expensive ticket for a front-row seat.

If people strike you as "odd" for any reason -- including those who evoke a casting Hexagram 11 unchanging-- I strongly suggest standing back and really figuring WHY? And if you are going to transcend the situation they create around you part of that is getting as far from the damage they create [or potentially create] as possible, as quickly as you can.

True, they might strike everybody as odd and you're not the only one. What does THAT tell you? Be exclusive. That's my advice, Be discerning. You get one life and although Hexagram 59 might mean you should release and forget because you are sensitive -- realise that you ARE sensitive and people who arrive with a battle-axe in each hand just aren't YOUR type. I'd call that type of sensitivity good instinct. You don't need to make room in your life for off-the-wall types. If they have ADHD and need sympathy, they can go get a counselor. Otherwise, if you take them on you're going to need a counselor sooner or later! They aren't your responsibility. Feeling sorry for them or giving them room to "grow" isn't your responsibility. That was up to their Mother to work out and obviously she's failed. Take on what you know how to cope with and leave the basket cases for the people who can ably sign on for a very heavy load and give as good as they take. You aren't one of those AQ -- neither am I.

I feel no sympathy for this guy -- he needs to understand how he affects people and that he puts them off with the overboard approach. I'd let time tell if he's a true nutter; certainly no need for you to rush in and evaluate him. What for?
 
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This is what is going on with me and my thoughts as of late.

I am feeling sorry for him. He is leaving me voice mails that are quite nice now. Like "Happy Valentine's Day" etc. I know 100% that I do not want to date this guy. I know that I do not even want to be his friend or get to know him. But I am feeling compassionate due to what Lavalamp has been saying and also, yes, because I am a very sensative person. I am a Cancer and I fit that mold perfectly. I have always had a strong urge to help people. Which is relating to my last relationship as well. I am starting to realize that the people I need to help are going to have to be people whom want help and are already helping themselves. People who just need a boost of encouragement. I realize I cannot "help" this guy in any way. But still I think about it.

This is not saying that I will do anything in regards to contacting him. Just what I am thinking about. Trying to work it all out in my head. Thanks for your help:hug:

I am also wanting to be safe and smart. I want to do what is right . I want to do what will help us both by looking at the big picture. This seems to make the most sense so far from what everyone has posted:

They aren't your responsibility. Feeling sorry for them or giving them room to "grow" isn't your responsibility. That was up to their Mother to work out and obviously she's failed. Take on what you know how to cope with and leave the basket cases for the people who can ably sign on for a very heavy load and give as good as they take.

I feel no sympathy for this guy -- he needs to understand how he affects people and that he puts them off with the overboard approach.
In the big picture of things, being that I do not have any pleasant connection with this guy, other than a store conversation, I don't see it beneficial to help him (to ease his mind as to why I am not returning his messages). In the long run, perhaps from this, he will also learn something. I know I am formulating lessons right now...:bows:

59.5 speaks of a King who disperses his riches and this line can be interpreted in many ways. If you stay alone by yourself quietly, you will find the solution welling up into your conscious mind from the depths of your unconscious mind. There is no need to demonize this man or keep him in your memory as an enemy of some kind.
.....
Sounds like the energy of this man was buffeting you -- as if he were attacking you or forcing himself on you. But realistically speaking, was that his intention? Or is that the way he is with everybody?
.....
And because you are a very sensitive individual, your sensations were highly unpleasant and your mind felt affected.
Yes. I think it is perhaps a fuzzy mind thing. Perhaps I have been reading the Yi's answers wrong all along and I need to remember that they are speaking directly to me.

I think it has been saying:
Yes, this is a negative situation. Do not pursue him(26.1>18).
Calm down(11), talk it out with people and know you have people to help(39.5), you cannot make offerings and set things right with someone whom you cannot understand or see eye to eye(59.4.5.>64).
Let it out what you need to get off your mind and your chest, and do not turn back(40).

thanks everyone.:hug::bows::hug:

I am ready to move on. I have a whole bunch of other questions for the Yi that are just waiting on the backburner!
 

arabella

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Sounds like everything said was helpful -- so 100% useful. Well done everybody!
 

lavalamp

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Arabella, without providing the exact question and reading you got, that isn't exactly an Apples to Apples comparison in terms of how the Yi speaks. I think sometimes you women dump your personal history of pain on a man who does not deserve it, and damage men's hearts - because yours have been.

Really the group of you women dishing on the crazy men you've known scaring the crap out of each other, branding this man as being a pervert or sexual predator or abuser for no good reason, he made no threats, crude comments, sexual propositions or anything like that, this is a bit disturbing to me. Talking about women's advocacy groups, shelters and calling the cops a when all he did was call and text a woman who gave him her number - Jeez. A fear feeding frenzy looked like to me, without objective good reason for it, and not supported by the Yi either whose advice expressed through several readings you all chose to ignore.

I have female friends that have been rape victims btw. And in my observation the biggest thing that helped with the healing process and moving forward in one's life was the practice of kindness. Even one that had been sold into prostitution and raped, but became sane and whole and a truly loving whole being through her relationship with God and the assiduous practice of kindness, this was direct guidance to her. There are men she will not call back - but for cause, because they are being crude or propositioning her, not because of uncontrollable inner fear. Certainly woman should protect themselves always, listen to their intuition. But this was hardly a walking down a dark street drunk alone late at night situation, this was someone who just just looked kinda like the man and crows flying in the sky triggering fear.

Living in fear is a big problem, you are always with yourself.
 

arabella

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Arabella, without providing the exact question and reading you got, that isn't exactly an Apples to Apples comparison in terms of how the Yi speaks. I think sometimes you women dump your personal history of pain on a man who does not deserve it, and damage men's hearts - because yours have been.

Really the group of you women dishing on the crazy men you've known scaring the crap out of each other, branding this man as being a pervert or sexual predator or abuser for no good reason, he made no threats, crude comments, sexual propositions or anything like that, this is a bit disturbing to me. Talking about women's advocacy groups, shelters and calling the cops a when all he did was call and text a woman who gave him her number - Jeez. A fear feeding frenzy looked like to me, without objective good reason for it, and not supported by the Yi either whose advice expressed through several readings you all chose to ignore.

I have female friends that have been rape victims btw. And in my observation the biggest thing that helped with the healing process and moving forward in one's life was the practice of kindness. Even one that had been sold into prostitution and raped, but became sane and whole and a truly loving whole being through her relationship with God and the assiduous practice of kindness, this was direct guidance to her. There are men she will not call back - but for cause, because they are being crude or propositioning her, not because of uncontrollable inner fear. Certainly woman should protect themselves always, listen to their intuition. But this was hardly a walking down a dark street drunk alone late at night situation, this was someone who just just looked kinda like the man and crows flying in the sky triggering fear.

Living in fear is a big problem, you are always with yourself.
You're right -- not apples to apples because there is no such thing in the Yi; nor anywhere else in terms of human behaviour. My point isn't that. My point is that as a woman living by yourself and not knowing right away who you are dealing with [by dint of poor information OR inexperience OR both] you have to live smart -- not scared -- smart. I'm not inordinately scared of anyone or anything. But I don't go looking for a tornado to walk into either.

As an older adult on here you have to use best judgement when somebody young and on their own tells you they are scared. No matter what the Yi says, common sense says stand in a protected position and decide what you saw or what you know. Get next to people who know you and can help assess the situation. You'll learn as you go. You'll find out where your instincts were right and where your fear was exaggerated. Neither I nor the Yi can do that for you.

My point isn't that Hexagram 11 unchanging always means some guy is a predator. It could mean the sky is blue and the scene is serene. In my case it meant to ride the wave until a violent man is out of my life. Which only proves -- it can mean that.

I've had two of my own daughters out there living in flats by themselves, a couple countries away, and calling home with just this sort of situation from time to time. Everything from guys who chased them with intent to rape, to guys from their class at uni who were just out of hand. When in doubt -- get the cops. It's their job for God sakes. I'm not anywhere near Ohio, don't know Answered Questions at all. Who knows what state of mind people are in on here when they cast the Yi? You want to hear somebody got hurt and then say -- oh gee but I thought that the Yi said................

Pardon me, but I will err on the side of caution.

And by the way, just my instinct speaking here LL, but being addressed as "you women" makes my hair stand on end.:eek:
 
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arabella

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BTW LavaLamp -- I will be off on a retreat contemplating my numerous sins [and hopefully everyone else's ;)] from tonight. So if you come back and I'm not answering it's not because I'm some petty mean witch -- it's because I'm not here!;)

You've been fantastic on this thread. It's good to hear as many sides as possible, really instructive for all concerned and helpful I'm sure for AQ to consider -- and she does you will notice -- she's hearing all that is said

Although I may disagree with you in some repsects [having learned a lot the hardest possible way ] I find it great that a guy puts his oar into things lke this. Believe me, it's appreciated that you represent a point of view that is so opposite in such a reasonable and mannerly way. :hug:
 
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ginnie

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I think sometimes you women ... A fear feeding frenzy looked like to me, without objective good reason for it
Please don't say 'you women,' Lava, although I can understand why you said that.

An idea or a concept can be true or false. Feelings are not right or wrong; they are only experienced or not experienced.

In his book Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, John Gray, Ph.D. writes that women will fight for the right to have their feelings recognized. It is through voicing our feelings that we know what we really think about something.That is how we figure out what to do. So, we need our feelings to reach the bedrock of our being. Men, says Dr. Gray, are different. Men have a more direct route to action.

And Lava was saying, "Text him and tell him you're not interested." That's entirely direct.

But because of the depth of AQ's emotional turmoil, that became something 'we women' thought might best be avoided.

I happen to think that 'thoughts are things,' and they say that thought forms are the most powerful form of energy in the universe. So if someone is caught up in a lot of fear thoughts, then that is what Yi sees, the insides of the matter. Fear and ill-will need to be dispersed and released. That takes time and effort. One idea about hexagram 59 is that it's a picture of a block of ice with a gentle breeze blowing across the top of it. As the gentle breeze continues to blow across the ice floe, that rigidity slowly melts away and vanishes.
 

arabella

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I believe thoughts -- negative or positive -- are real as well Ginnie. Good point.
 
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I'm not anywhere near Ohio, don't know Answered Questions at all. Who knows what state of mind people are in on here when they cast the Yi? You want to hear somebody got hurt and then say -- oh gee but I thought that the Yi said................

Pardon me, but I will err on the side of caution.
Ohio is not bad at all but I will tell you, a couple of month's ago, a 45 year old woman was getting into her garage. She parked the car outside and was going to walk into the door on the side of the garage. Four people in masks came up to her at gunpoint. They demanded she get into her car and drive them around to different ATM's and pull out all of her money from her bank accounts. This is my neighbor. She lives4 houses down from my apartment.

It is like Arabella said, better to be on the side of caution.

I will say though, I am not a person who walks around in fear. The opposite really. I never lock my car. I rarely lock my inside door to my apartment. I take walks in the evening by myself. I live by myself. I often talk to people I have never met and I am in general an open person. Not closed off by fear. My mom is always getting on to me about these sort of things and I am always responding to the effect "Oh, it's no big deal everything's fine".

For me, this Thread, this Reading, this Situation has been a lesson for me to maybe shift my equalizer knob that is cranked way on the trusting side, over a little bit to being just a little more cautious. Nothing extreme, because then you would have the opposite and I would be living in fear like LavaLamp speaks of. But just --SAFE--. Safe is very important. So is smart. Understanding my options, talking it out, listening to other's experiences all can lead to a better understanding. Also, about the crows. I hold them in the highest regards :bows:

Lavalamp- Throughout this thread, I hope you know my intended tone has not been of an aggressive nature. :pompom: and I thank you for your responses. I simply do not agree with you however :D. It's allowed! :mischief:
 
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I would like to add that I believe, if someone expresses that they are feeling unsafe, then Yi or no Yi, it is sound advice to tell them to make themselves safer by whatever means necessary. The situation does not have to be about a man, or a person, just a situation. If someone calls, writes a thread, sends a letter or tells you in person that they feel danger, it is a nice rule of thumb to tell them to step away from the danger and not go toward it. You have to keep 'why' they feel danger out of it. I personally felt embarrassed that I got myself in this mess by being too trustful. I didn't know what to do. When we feel unsafe, we also get emotional sometimes. It is good to hear from a cool calm head to be smart and be safe.

Yi can be a cucumber sometimes. 11 and 40. :D
 

lavalamp

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Ginnie - I fully realized and considered the "Men Are From Mars And Women Are From Venus" angle on this. But if you are talking about validating emotions, how about the emotions of an innocent, if socially inexperienced man whose heart you damage by treating him like a non-person, as a leper, social pariah/pervert/rapist when he is nothing of the sort? When the group of you started talking amongst yourselves branding this man - how would that man have felt do you think, listening to the group of you speak of him that way? I tell you, as the Yi says the bird in the shade's song is heard/influence is felt for thousands of miles, you were damaging and doing violence to this man's heart. And mine as well, as a man, listening to it. The other men here probably are wise enough to realize there is no way to win this kind of discussion with you, and don't want to get on your bad side, as this is such a good example of what it's like over there.

Sounds more like repeating a cycle of hurt, more like allowing the violence and fear you have experienced take dominion of the world we live in and hurt more innocent people, then like being a force for change and peace in the world.

You all expressed a lot more emotional content about men than merely that of wanting AQ to stay safe. It was not kind towards men at all.
 
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fallada

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Beware of the bad english...

40 unmoving IME:
Stresses the effort and time it needs to get everything back to a normal everyday routine. But it will.

11 unmoving IME :
The productive eLements are in place but do not interact/create. Distorsion/delay of a growth process.
Examples: Not getting pregnant for no reasons, unconsumed relationship- no sex, "Real chances" but nothing manifests, stopping a not malign tumor from growing by surgery.
Mood: "this can't be right" yet with hindsight I was on path, that is in the right Position to act Ina productive way.

Maybe this helps a bit.
Heartfelt wishes ,
F.
 

arabella

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Must be brief as I’ve got only fifteen minutes on here!

Lavalamp, you seem to be personalising the conversation more than anyone. Nobody was "branding" a man -- what was being discussed was his behaviour and how to respond to that behaviour given that no one knows him and he seems very aggressive -- which is quite different. This isn’t a battle and speaking of winners and losers isn't helpful.

Why is it so difficult to acknowledge the need to stay safe and have a chance to consider what is going on in the situation if you are frightened by his behaviour? If you ignore your feelings, go ahead and are hurt, the first thing anybody else will ask you is why you didn’t pay attention to your instincts. Frankly, we still don’t know the guy’s intention.

There is no "circle" of violence in protecting yourself. Pulling away and considering what to do about an unknown quantity is smart. If he is sincere he will not be offended anyway. So being safe and smart is a win-win.

I’d be more convinced of your counsel about what to when you’re unsure of someones aggressive behaviour if some of your friends recuperating from rape were men.
 

lavalamp

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What aggression? What exactly did he do? I think you are being entirely arbitrary Arabella, were AG attracted to the man what did he that was over the line? And you could have offered kind advice,"well maybe he is well intentioned, but it's really better to be safe", but you said nothing like that.

I mean explain to me, exactly how does a polite reply/text to someone you gave your number to, make it more likely you will be raped than if you snub and disrespect the guy instead?

Makes no sense - but it does clearly send an emotional message.
 
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.. if you are talking about validating emotions, how about the emotions of an innocent, if socially inexperienced man whose heart you damage by treating him like a non-person, as a leper, social pariah/pervert/rapist when he is nothing of the sort? When the group of you started talking amongst yourselves branding this man - how would that man have felt do you think, listening to the group of you speak of him that way?
Hi Lava - I think maybe you are taking your own personal experience and feelings and placing them into the situation. This is of course allowed and truely a big part of what life is about. It is about sharing the experiences that we have went through with others, and connecting them. Through these experiences we gain instincts and use them as best as we can, to sense what the situation needs and what does, and does not, need communicated. Lava, I think we are very similar in some ways.:hug:

But I would like to comment on the underlined statement above further in saying, I did not 'treat him' in any way. I simply walked away from the situation. I could have, in the apex of my fear, messaged him something like "Quit sending me messages, you are freaking me out". At that point, he would think I was treating him like someone who is a criminal or an outcast. Instead I simply did not reply. This would imply I am just not interested.

What aggression? What exactly did he do?
A little time line:

We met in a store, exchanged numbers.
I returned home. Put everything away, retreated to bed for the night.
He messaged.
I thought: Going to get back to him later, no rush. I'm tired.
Woke up extremely early.
Worked. Busy day.
Came home only to get ready to leave again for class.
Saw someone who resembles him drive by. (Yes I know this is not for sure)
Went to class (It has not yet been 24 hours since I have met him).

During the time I was in the class:
He sent me 2 messages from one number,
three from another number(from a Pinger account which he did not tell me was him at first. He was being sneeky).

The messages were up and down in emotions. One said something like, "you are an angel". The other said somethiing like "Please please please, just tell me why you aren't getting back to me". Still, at this point, I would have at least had the heart to get back to him and simply say I wasn't interesting.....

Then I listened to the voicemail that he also left during the time I was in class. The voicemail said the same things generally as the messages, however, and this is the most important part, his tone was aggressive. Too much for under 24 hours of knowing him. He sounded like he was reprimanding me.

I was not misreading it. Texts can get tricky. Voicemail is much easier to detect that someone, man or woman, is in an uproar. I did not like that he was all over the place nor that he was upset in such a short period of time. So I considered the "attraction" lost, on my part.

But more importantly, when listening to the VM I got a panicked feeling. Then I started thinking about the man I saw drive by. Then I started questioning why he was messaging from two phones and being tricky. Then I recieved 26.1 >18 and it spoke of danger. It was just all too much for me, and I got a feeling. A feeling very strong.

Makes no sense - but it does clearly send an emotional message.
In the above quote lava, you are talking about me not responding to him, but I would like you to view it from my angle and see how your quote could be something I would say to him.


I'd like to add, I have not made up my mind about his intentions, and I do not plan on it. I am not in a position to do so. And since I couldn't see the situation clearly, I backed out of it. I do believe his behavior created a lot of the fog in the situation. And all within under 24 hours. Very potent, very intense. Like a squid spraying black ink.

I would appreciate if you wouldn't pin me as a man hater Lavalamp. :( I don't want you to think that I am. I know that you are just going off of your instincts like I did. I might have been wrong about X. You might be wrong about my situation and how you view me as well.

And please do not try and make Arabella and Ginnie feel wrong for their advice. They did the right thing.:hug: They are just good people telling me to be safe. They also have experiences that they want to share and their experiences went along with what I was feeling. Also connecting 11 unchanging. It's like a mother who tells their child, "do not stick your hand on the stove. I did once and look at this scar I have". The mother could have just said not to touch the stove, but because she feels to protect the child, she explains her experience hoping it will connect in the childs mind and strengthen the message of being safe.
 
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pocossin

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I could have, in the apex of my fear, messaged him something like "Quit sending me messages, you are freaking me out". At that point, he would think I was treating him like someone who is a criminal or an outcast.
He wouldn't, but he would know that he is coming on to strong.

Instead I simply did not reply. This would imply I am just not interested.
Absolutely, and he needs no more message than that. Why he doesn't get it is his problem.
 

ginnie

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What bothered me was how you women were discussing him.
Yes, I know what you mean, Lava. It was like we formed a clique in agreement that AQ needed protection from the 'bad' man. We formed a woman's circle and that left you in a not-so-subtle way on the outside of the discussion, since you're obviously not a woman.

But that's not an unusual experience in forums. I have a number of times posted in another section of this website or in other threads, and my comments were just skipped over as if I never made them. This has resulted in me having hurt feelings on more than one occasion.

I see it as a transient occurrence, that the circle just formed that way and excluded you. By the way, we don't actually know anything, hardly, about the man in the example, X. I never thought he was a pervert or a criminal. But he was coming on in an uncommonly strong way, and that is guaranteed to set alarm bells ringing for all females over the age of about 13.

Maybe men and women do naturally separate out over some issues.

By the way, this thread was started by littlebuddha and it had to do with hex 11 unchanging. That's another rude thing that happens sometimes but not intentionally -- whole threads get hijacked or just go off in another direction. Offending thread dynamics ... maybe shouldn't be taken all that seriously.
 
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I feel like this thread and the discussions are actually a mirror of 11 unchanging. I am trying to figure it all out and maybe comment on it later...

Earth = Receptive = Female
Heaven = Dynamic = Male

In 11 it is clearly defined as two separate energies and philosophies with opposite effects.
The male energy of heaven has worked it's way down on the playing field of earth. The female energy of the earth has raised up and found a place in heaven.

Something to be said about that.
But what it is, I am not quite sure..
 
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lavalamp

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AQ, my issue wasn't with you really, and not meant to be critical of you personally. I just did not like what I was hearing being said by the group. I know women, spiritual sisters from many different paths who easily approach and talk to total strangers without fear. Christians, Hari Krishnas, Buddhists, even some who worked underground in Muslim or Communist countries, a childhood friend in Iran before the revolution... If perfect love casts out all fear, then fear also casts out love. And the Yi is actually a spiritual teaching I think, meant to empower you.

Of course were I talking to the guy in this situation, it would be another conversation entirely. But I have kids and think boys are pretty sensitive, vulnerable emotionally, more than girls actually. At 6 years old, girls are in many ways already all grown up. The problem with both men and women is getting them to realize how the world is affected by what they say and do.

The gals could have simply said they aren't interested in a man that comes on too strong, but had a lot - a lot more to say than that that. And that was what really bothered me, rather than how you AQ, actually decided to proceed in this situation.
 

ginnie

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You took offense. You felt slighted. But it was not aimed at you, Lavalamp. You are an extremely intuitive and perceptive diviner, but we had gone off on this different track on this thread.

I just want to say that I don't know AQ personally; nor do I know Arabella. In a very real sense we are all just figments of each others' imaginations. We are all telling stories, too, and who knows how much of either truth or falsehood is to be found here. The first truth to be found here is that people come here with problems. The second and only other truth to be found here, I feel, is in the lines given by Yi.

And yes, one does find a lot of extraneous verbiage here sometimes and one may not agree with the direction it has taken. This reminds me of something apt that George Carlin, the comedian, now deceased, once said about the radio. He pointed out that radios come equipped with dials, and one can always reach up and switch the station.

In keeping with that, I'm going to hop off this thread right here. Best wishes to all ...
 
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ginnie

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In my case it [Hexagram Eleven] meant to ride the wave until a violent man is out of my life. Which only proves -- it can mean that.
Thank you, Arabella, for this posting on hexagram 11, which shows a different side of hex 11 than I am used to ... and so it expands my understanding by adding the idea that there's more involved, once the 'all-pervading' quality has started, than one can know (or control). Like taking a turn in a theme park on a water ride like the Flume, or whatever it used to be called at Coney Island in Brooklyn, I guess amid all the splashing, I guess one's experience of it all depends on whether or not one really wanted to take the ride in the first place.
 
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arabella

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:hug::hug:I asked the clinical psychologist presenting part of the retreat programme tonight why three women might be explaining and re-explaining so many times their approach to a situation like this one and a man be so completely baffled and not hearing the point at all.

He said that men have a mental, hormonal and physical structure that is about three things: aggression, domination and hunting. That is their job. On a primary level, this is the male make-up and their primal responsibility -- it's just a fact. And the women involved have a mental, hormonal and physical structure that is about communication, emotional logic and nesting [comfort for those for whom they feel responsible]. The hormones coursing through someone's blood dictate these feelings and society reinforces their validity.

Doesn't mean that either sex doesn't sometimes switch sides here and there. But they each do their job and would perceive the circumstances from their native point of view.

The controversy here is a about a man not understanding what it's like to be vulnerable every day, all of his life; and how different things would be for him if he weren't part of the physically dominating sex. [Similar to my point that Lavalamp's friends recovering from a rape are women -- not men.]

The male version of life is a different mind-set and Moms prepare their daughters to know and expect that. All Dads need to do the same with sons so that they don't leave aggressive voice messages after a couple of over the top text messages, as though a woman owed them an immediate response [even if she's busy in classes and with friends] -- or things will turn rough. An emotionally appropriate man would never think, so says the psychologist, that if they turn aggressive in tone they will receive a call back at all. An emotionally on-board guy would know that he could expect just the opposite reaction. The psychologist says this guy is just randomly fishing with every line he can think of -- which only demonstrates more clearly his purpose is purely for his benefit and holds no benefit for AQ, He just wants the response that he demands, no matter how he gets it.

The psychologist also said that it isn't appropriate for either sex to expect anything from a person they just met -- that is an attitude of entitlement -- and meeting, even giving a phone number, doesn't automatically entitle a man to a woman's trust. Trust must be earned and trust is what a woman must have to respond to him and feel safe. Men don't require this trust and they don't get why it is important -- unless they take the time to learn about women. Words from a master psychologist. :hug:
 
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lavalamp

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Arabella, the Yi could have easily told AQ that for a woman to see the world through the crack of a door is without blame. It did not choose to do so. The Yi assumes and expects superiority - high minded, conscientious, spiritually aware thought and action - from people who come to it asking for advice. In fact it is written specifically for the "Superior," illuminating the path to maturity and personal power, and fulfilling one's human potential.

You preferred to substitute your own wisdom.
 

lavalamp

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And BTW Arabella, I have been to and enjoyed Gestalt, Esalen, Transactional Analysis, and 12 Step Groups like NA, as well as confrontational therapies like Square Games ala Synanon. A interest held since adolescence actually, doing volunteer work. But such approaches can only take you so far along your evolutionary path, in my considered opinion. Once you are out of the pit, then what? This is the problem.
 
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It is interesting that the ladies were the ones that maintained a sort of logical battle stance and were ready to defend if need be. Like hunters or actually just protectors. A sort of flip flop from my perspective. Normally I would be the one to say something about how emotions are affected in the situation. Odd.
11
Maybe my emotions triggered my defensive stance. Maybe Lava's logic triggered protecting someone's emotions. All the pieces were there. But not necessarily calm.

Yin Earth Female energy on the outside:
__ __
__ __
__ __
Yang Heaven Male energy on the inside:
_____
_____
_____​

::I'm really intrigued and thinking aloud::
(I am also having fun with the various editing settings :rofl:)
 

arabella

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Arabella, the Yi could have easily told AQ that for a woman to see the world through the crack of a door is without blame. It did not choose to do so. The Yi assumes and expects superiority - high minded, conscientious, spiritually aware thought and action - from people who come to it asking for advice. In fact it is written specifically for the "Superior," [/U ]illuminating the path to maturity and personal power, and fulfilling one's human potential.

You preferred to substitute your own wisdom.



If you understand precisely what was meant by Hexagram 11 unchanging -- or the other castings in this thread, to such an extent that you can advise someone a world away that their fears of a man you've never seen are unfounded and they should just step out and engage with him when they have said that they are scared, alone and female, then you are a genius who is missing the opportunity of a lifetime to instruct all the rest of us in the Yi. No one I've ever met who reads the Yi would make such a promise as that.

You are right, apparently, I've had no idea that delivering such a guarantee of safety without hesitation is what the Yi meant by a "superior" man. No wonder the Yi never refers to a "superior" woman. According to what the psychologist has explained, there aren't any. I'll have to go back to that therapist today and let him know that he is wrong -- there may be two sides to the coin of human perception, but the "superior" man is meant to occupy both of them.
 

ginnie

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In numerology, 11 is a Master Number. There is a positive 11 and a negative 11. When the energy behind 11 is not directed properly, eleven can be frightening and even dangerous ...

The number of 11 (in numerology) has also been associated with both Hitler and Mussolini -- violent dictators and tyrants.

One doesn't always have to be thinking of violence and tyranny with 11, but you know that there will be an extraordinary amount of energy there.

Another thought:
In hexagram 11, we have Heaven on the bottom and Earth on top. The Chinese view of Heaven is not the same as the Christian view. Heaven in the I Ching can be destructive as well as lovely and 'heavenly.' When it comes to the destructive power inherent in Heaven, I think the Noble One learns to sidestep that, much the way we learn not to stick a fork into an open electrical socket. At the same time, we all know that running electrical currents can be extremely useful, and we use them all the time.

Is that confusing, what I'm saying? There is no one-to-one correspondence between numerology and the I Ching, but this about the number 11 I thought could be illuminating, especially
 
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lavalamp

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Arabella, before you start talking about "guarantees of safety", perhaps you should ask your Master Clinical Psychologist friend whether the advice you gave offered any such thing.

Do you really think the Yi is never going to advise anyone to face their fears, or to follow a path that is truly challenging? Do you think that the Yi is never going to tell you you are wrong, change your path? Do you think somehow, by way of example, a God of love will not tell people who ask him for advice that he wishes them to be a force for peace in the world, even if that is the most difficult of paths to walk? Think of Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela...

If truly difficult things which hurt like hell have been asked of you Arabella, things which still hurt, I would suggest it is perhaps because somebody loves and trusts you, as a leader figure, to do the right thing.
 
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