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Hexagram 15. Ch'ien / Modesty

rosada

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THE JUDGEMENT
MODESTY creates success.
The superior man carries things through.
 
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lightofreason

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15 Modesty
Levelling, Even-Out
In a context of self-restraint we utilise trust.

"CH'IEN : think and speak of yourself in a modest way; respectful, unassuming, retiring, unobtrusive; yielding, compliant, reverent, lowly. The ideogram: words and unite, keeping words close to the underlaying facts."ERANOS p223

Some pairing data:

In the binary sequence hexagram 15 pairs with hexagram 52.
The overall focus in this pair is on the characteristics of quality control where for 15 the focus is on removing, or more so concealing, covering-up, all highs and lows, all exaggerations, no exceptions. This is an integrating act where we pull down or pull up to give an overall expression of 'modesty'. In 52 the focus is more differentiating through the use of blockage, to develop a sense of discernment and so recognition of qualities that 'stick out' naturally rather than as exaggerations.

In the binary sequence hexagram 15 opposes hexagram 10.
In this pairing we see the focus on levelling-out in hexagram 15, where we reduce all highs and fill-in all lows, and so avoid any form of exaggeration, compared to the formal maintaining of highs and lows, and so a focus on hierarchy, in hexagram 10. A consequence of hierarchy is the need for everyone to 'know their place' in that the slightest movement 'away' from that place can be a threat to the overall structure. Thus with hexagram 10 we have a focus on treading, on conduct, following path 'carefully' where the path reflects the bounds of one's realm. In hexagram 15 the focus is more on modesty, on keeping "words close to the underlying facts".

At the LOCAL level in the binary sequence we here deal with a sequence of eight hexagrams with the trigram of MOUNTAIN as the base trigram. In this sequence hexagram 15 'opposes' hexagram 33 where in 33 the focus on avoiding exaggeration is replaced by the use of exaggeration to trick the enemy, to draw them into a trap. More so, the exaggerated sense of trickary/retreat in 33 is reflected in a more balanced format through the levelling-out (and so make things more 'fair') reflected in 15.

In the traditional sequence hexagram 15 pairs with hexagram 16.
In this pairing we see a sense of imposing order, be it through reducing highs and lows or in actively planning events and so avoiding the 'unexpected' highs and lows.

REDUCE EXAGGERATIONS:

15 : reduce exaggerations - through re-distribution, even-out; 15 modesty comes out of a context described by hexagram 22 - facading, gloss over, cover up

16 : reduce exaggerations - through planning, think beforehand; 16 foresight, planning comes out of a context described by hexagram 21 - problem solving, to chew over

In the traditional sequence hexagram 15 opposes hexagram 50.
With this pair the focus is on transformation but for 15 this is done through levelling-out whereas in 50 the focus is on 'cooking', on refining the raw to become the 'refined' and so transformed.

The generic properties of hexagram 15 reflect the mixing of the generic properties of hexagram 52 with the generic properties of hexagram 22.
Combining a sense of facading, gloss-over, cover-up (22) with a sense of discernment (52) reflects the generic properties of 15. Hexagram 22 reflects the need to draw attention from what is behind the mask to the mask itself.

In the variations on a theme sequence, hexagram 15 complements hexagram 36.
The overall focus in this pair is on 'hiding', be it through removal of highs and lows in the environment (15) or the covering-up of one's own 'light' in a context that is uncompromising (36). Both hexagrams thus emphasise not exaggerating oneself etc.

Some spectrum properties:

the infrastructure, the skeletal form, is described by analogy to 22. (gloss over, hide inside by exaggerate outside - exaggeration includes covering up as it does overdisplay)

The source of nourishment is described by analogy to 29 - focus on containment/control issues.

Begins with, keeps coming back to, 36, uncompromising (Darken the light, cover it up, hide it)

Full spectrum summarised in http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x000100.html

Chris.
 

rosada

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THE IMAGE
Within the earth, a mountain:
The image of MODESTY.
Thus the superior man reduces that which is too
much,
And augments that which is too little.
He weighs things and makes them equal.

The superior man...establishes order in the world; he equalizes the extremes that are the source of social discontent and thereby creates just and equable conditions.
-Wilhelm
 
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lightofreason

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Image :
"[With self-restraint comes trust] : Modesty. In the centre of the earth, a mountain : Modesty. One reduces the many to augment the few, and assesses things for an even distribution."
 

rosada

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15.1
Six at the beginning means:
A superior man modest about his modesty
May cross the great water.
Good fortune.

A dangerous enterprise, such as the crossing of a great stream, is made
much more difficult if many claims and considerations have to be taken into account. On the other hand, the task is easy if it is attended to quickly and simply. Therefore the unassuming attitude of mind that goes with modesty fits a man to accomplish even difficult undertakings: he imposes no demands or stipulations but settles matters easily and quickly. Where no claims are put forward, no resistances arise.
-Wilhelm
 
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lightofreason

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Line 1
"If one enters the flow of something in a modest manner success can come just as easily."

From the XOR realm, line position 1 is 'ruled' by hexagram 24 and as such covers the beginning of something as it does the return to something - thus the issue is what does hexagram 15 keep coming back to? XOR 24 with 15 and the answer is given by analogy to generic qualities of hexagram 36 and so the covering up of the light

The line comment indicates that by covering up that light one can progress just as if one entered a situation all 'lights' blazing - as such it is more economical from an energy conservation perspective to avoid the 'brightness', the exaggerations. As 15 covers in general, the focus on keeping words close to facts, level things out, reduce the highs, fill in the lows.

From a line position/sequence perspective, this change is from an incorrect position to a correct position.

Chris.
 

rosada

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15.2
Six in the second place means:
Modesty that comes to expression.
Perseverance brings good fortune.

"Out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaketh." When
a man's attitude of mind is so modest that this expresses itself
in his outward behavior, it is a source of good fortune to him.
For the possibility of exerting a lasting influence arises of itself,
and no one can interfere.
-Wilhelm.
 
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lightofreason

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Line 2
"Following the middle path in a modest manner and without pretense influences many."

This makes the bottom trigram wind - a source of cultivation in bottom, becoming influencial in top.

with/from modesty(levelling-out) comes entanglements (getting more involved with others) (46)

From XOR, line position 2 associates with hexagram 07 that covers a sense of uniforming, socialisation but gained from without (imposed).

From the wave model, we can add these together, 7 + 15 = 46

thus we have a 'rising through the ranks' but with the 'sharp edges' of a military perspective 'rounded' by the influence of 15.
 
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rosada

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15.3
*Nine in the third place means:
A superior man of modesty and merit
Carries things to conclusion.
Good fortune.

This is the center of the hexagram, where its secret is dis-
closed. A distinguished name is readily earned by great
achievements. if a man allows himself to be dazzled by fame,
he will be criticized, and difficulties will arise. If, on the
contrary, he remains modest despite his merit, he makes
himself beloved and wins the support necessary for carrying
his work through to the end.
-Wilhelm
 
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lightofreason

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Line 3
"Distinguishing oneself and yet remaining modest attracts the respect and support of others rather than their envy. This enables one to complete many things."

with/from modesty (level out - 15) comes devotion to another/others (02) (here the modesty elicits devotion of others, their support etc)

From XOR, 02 reflects a pool of potentials where the yang element actualises. Any hexagram XOR-ed with itself will elicit 02 and so the hexagram of potentials. (and that includes darkness in that within the dark is .....?)

Chris.
 

rosada

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15.4
Six in the fourth place means:
Nothing that would not further modesty
In movement.

Modesty is shown by interest in one's work.
-Wilhelm
 
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lightofreason

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Line 4
"A point of transition where things start to become profitable. To be seen as modest is advantageous."

with/from modesty comes portraying (62)

62 covers exaggerating of 'something' (traditions etc) to elicit loyalty to the collective. Here the exaggeration of modesty, to be SEEN and so noticed as such, is profitable - product loyalty so to speak ;-)

This of course is not 'modest' in that to be seen as being X means transcending the position of X in its 'balanced' form. 62 covers the use of traditions, their exaggerations, to fight against the collective being past its 'best before/use by' date.

Chris.
 

martin

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The line texts of hexagram 15 (especially the first 4) seem rather "flat", they don't give much extra information. Not much breaking news there.
But that befits the nature of the hexagram.

I see that only Rosada and Lightofreason have contributed to this thread till now. No highs or lows leaves nothing to discuss?
I suppose it's not because everybody else has suddenly become overly modest. :D
 

frank_r

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The changing of the 4th line is giving 15 extra more yang, the trigrams mountain and earth(both earth in the 5 elements theorie) stand for not so much exposure. With trigram earth changing in thunder, from the outside something new can start, the nucleus is changing in lake(element metal).

So with the 4th line something new and joyful/cheerful can start.
The man lines are both yang now, so there is a lot of creativity in the interieur, from this moment it will slowly becoming clear where this will lead to.
 

rosada

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Thanks for joining in Martin! I was beginning to wonder if we were creating some sort of Modesty performance art piece here! Anyway, I think you are right. 15. Modesty does seem to be a sort of flatline (flatlines?), just sort of encouragement to keep going:
1. Don't promise too much.
2. Never complain, never explain.
3. Keep on keeping on.
4. Do the job for it's own sake.

Further thoughts on 15.1
A superior man, modest about his modesty, may cross the great river.
This line is a reference to the importance of not promising too much at the beginning.
I've been reading an article about Iraq which argued that the "Mission Accomplished" photo op was the biggest P.R. blunder of all time because of the unreal expectations it raised. FDR, on the other hand, made some very effective speech in WWII in which he cautioned, "We are not at the end, nor even at the beginning of the end, but perhaps at the end of the beginning." Superior Man/Politician as dobro might say.
 
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rosada

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15.5
Six in the fifth place means:
Not boasting of wealth before one's neighbor.
It is favorable to attack with force.
Nothing that would not further.

Modesty is not to be confused with weak good nature that lets things take their own course.
-Wilhelm
 

rosada

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Just now saw your post on 15.4, Frank. Makes a lot of sence. In my own circumstances I have become totally bored with the volunteer work I've been doing, but rather than finding excuses to quit I've continued to show up - 15.3. This last week however I've had some insight as to how the skills I've developed could be applicable elsewhere. Perhaps this is what 15.4 is about. As one gets stronger, more opportunities open up. 15.5 seems to be about getting clear on what I want to do, not just waiting to be discovered.
 

rosada

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15.6
Six at the top eans:
Modesty that comes to expression.
It is favorable to set armies marching.
To chastise one's own city and one's country.

A person who is really sincere in his modesty must make it show in reality. He must proceed with great energy in this. When enmity arises nothing is easier than to lay blame on another. A weak man takes offense perhaps and draws back, feeling self-pity; he thinks it is modesty that keeps him from defending himself. Genuine modesty sets one to creating order and inspires one to begin by disciplining one's own ego and one's immediate circle. Only through having the courage to marshal one's armies against oneself, will something forceful really be achieved.
- Wilhelm
 
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bruce_g

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I have two inspirations of modesty. One comes from Wilhelm and other from LiSe. (No big surprise there.) Neither gives the impression of “modesty”, as we commonly use the word.

What I get from Wilhelm is, making something difficult look easy. This was discussed recently on another thread, and Hilary was speaking of the ‘natural’ musician having years of hard work behind them. Yet, when they play it sounds like it happens by itself. I think this is especially what line 6 expresses.

From LiSe comes the idea of team or cooperation. It took awhile for me to accept this meaning for 15, but after observing the time of 15 with this in mind, it became readily apparent.
 

hilary

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Well, I can add a third :)

The core concept in the character for 'modesty' means uniting. Holding two things together as one. So there's words at one with reality, inner dialogue and personal story-telling at one with reality, self-image likewise. Sometimes it can mean seeing your real self as if in a mirror.

In practice this absolute unvarnished realism tends to translate into increased modesty more often than not. But it can also be a cure for false modesty, or over-dramatising, or catastrophising.
(Me: "It's all down to me, what can I do?"
Yi: "15. You can get a grip on the limits of your own importance for starters.")

I think another effect is the ability to get stuff done without fuss - maybe because you're not expending energy on worrying what people might think.
 

dobro p

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hilary said:
Well, I can add a third :)

The core concept in the character for 'modesty' means uniting. Holding two things together as one. So there's words at one with reality, inner dialogue and personal story-telling at one with reality, self-image likewise. Sometimes it can mean seeing your real self as if in a mirror.

I'll add a fourth. The uniting thing - for me Hex 15 comes across as 'levelling', which is a kind of uniting of levels. 15 is a kind of 'bringing it down' compared to 16 which is more of a 'pumping it up or ramping it up'. If you've ever seen an audio wav file that's been hard limited, you'll know what I'm talking about - at a certain level, all the peaks are lopped off the wav. Off with their heads. It's really ruthless. And I think 15 is really ruthless (that's why you have the images you do in 15.5 and 15.6). Which is why I think words like 'modesty' just don't make the grade - they're not ruthless enough. There's too much 'niceness' in the word 'modesty'. I'm currently using 'humbling'. But even that doesn't have the edge that 15 needs.
 

hilary

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Do you mean 'cutting down to size'?
On occasion, though, 15 can mean enlarging your idea of yourself. If you're thinking too small to start with - if you're telling a personal story of being incapable and not up to much, then 15 indicates a time to grow to your real size. This is a rarity, but I have seen it. The reality check can cut both ways.
 
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bruce_g

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hilary said:
Do you mean 'cutting down to size'?
On occasion, though, 15 can mean enlarging your idea of yourself. If you're thinking too small to start with - if you're telling a personal story of being incapable and not up to much, then 15 indicates a time to grow to your real size. This is a rarity, but I have seen it. The reality check can cut both ways.

Yes. Equalizing extremes, as Wilhelm puts it. The mountain is brought low and the earth is raised up.
 
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bruce_g

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Luk 3:5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways [shall be] made smooth..
 

lindsay

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Luke 3:5 was quoting Isaiah 40:4. Handel makes a big deal out of this verse in 'Messiah'. Also I notice no one is talking about Christian virtues in relation to Hex 15. I would have thought the segue was rather obvious.

Lindsay
 
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bruce_g

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lindsay said:
Luke 3:5 was quoting Isaiah 40:4. Handel makes a big deal out of this verse in 'Messiah'. Also I notice no one is talking about Christian virtues in relation to Hex 15. I would have thought the segue was rather obvious.

Lindsay

Indeed it is from Isaiah. I try to tread lightly on Biblical comparatives here, but there's some beautiful poetry which follows Isa 40:4, if understood within context.

“And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken. The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh [is] grass, and all the goodliness thereof as the flower of the field: The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people [are as] grass."

And from the Gospel of Thomas (edited out):

His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"

"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."

Hex 15: That which is evident yet unnoticed.
 

rosada

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Interesting so many different voices checking in here. So many different points of view being expressed without competition or conflict. Each working out one's own path. Very 15.6.
 

dobro p

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rosada said:
Interesting so many different voices checking in here. So many different points of view being expressed without competition or conflict. Each working out one's own path. Very 15.6.

Whoa! 15.6! Off with their heads!
 
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bruce_g

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rosada said:
Interesting so many different voices checking in here. So many different points of view being expressed without competition or conflict. Each working out one's own path. Very 15.6.

Just wait'll we hit 16 - We'll be speaking in tongues, dancing in the Spirit and raising the dead! Holy rollers, Batman! :rofl:
 

dobro p

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hilary said:
Do you mean 'cutting down to size'?
On occasion, though, 15 can mean enlarging your idea of yourself. If you're thinking too small to start with - if you're telling a personal story of being incapable and not up to much, then 15 indicates a time to grow to your real size. This is a rarity, but I have seen it. The reality check can cut both ways.

Well, if you take it to mean that, then there's an audio operation that images it nicely as well - compression. Compression squashes the audio wav so that the highest and lowest amplitudes are closer together.

Now, which Yi image corresponds to reverb, I wonder?
 

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